I'm putting on a flamesuit and making a confession

[HEyHEY]

I fucking hate, hate, hate, the BC Teacher's Federation. Buncha fundsucking pricks who like to hold your kids hostage while they make their demands. And they always play the "Oh it's for the good of the kids card" but what happened today when it came time for them to weigh in on a BC teacher registry? The said no... no... no to a registry that would make parents able to look up past disciplinary action on their kid's teachers (This is geared toward sexual misconduct).

FUCK THE BCTF.

[politicaholic]

1. At least you stopped at calling them a terrorist organization...

like the United States former Secretary of Education said about the National Teacher's Union.

You're right, the back ground check thing is asinine. People just never want to be held responsible for their actions.

[yvr girl]

2. My dad was a teacher

He bargained with the government over collective agreements for several years in his school district. That being said, the BCTF drove him crazy.

He hated seeing his dues being used in political fights that had nothing to do with education.

[tuvor]

3. I don't know if you recall, but I wonder whatever happened to that teacher

about a half-dozen years back. Maybe you remember the teacher who was picketing over the current contract and how excited he was when he thought he had made the opposing negotiator's hands shake in terror at his yelling and screaming.

Only to find out the negotiator had an affliction of the nervous system.

I can't say I'm impressed with the way teachers in BC allow themselves to be represented.

[Hand]

5. OMG! Priceless.

"Ya shoulda seen it, eh! I had the fooker's hands shaking, he was so scared!"

"You idiot! He's got Parkinson's!"



(BLACKOUT)

[V. Kid]

4. A reaction will get an opposite and equal reaction etc...

Just think of the way the Liberals have bargained with organized Labour, including the teachers, over the last four years. Or failing that, the way that previous Social Credit governments have treated them, and the labour movement. The BC right (like most right-wing governments) treat organized labour like crap. As such they will be political. And guess what the Teachers are unionized, and with good reason (I wouldn't want to be treated like shit by this provincial government), as such they will act in political ways. Whoop dee and doo. Personally I think their latest tactic of not criticizing the government, and simply advocating for more teachers, better wages, and more resources are actually quite reasonable things to be demanding.

Perhaps they'd be completely in the wrong, if the government bargned in good faith, didn't rip up contracts and what not. But just because they teach our children doesn't mean they have no right to speak out. It's stupid to expect them to just sit around, bat their eyelashes, and say oh well we don't want more colleagues (so as to give the kids of BC a lower teacher to student ratio), oh and since we're teaching your children (a noble thing to be sure) we don't need any more money for it. Oh no golly gee, woh is you since we're being so darned uppity for even asking.

Yeah they want more money (it would be much better if people didn't need to be greedy, or actually needed more money due to BC's high cost of living, besides whoever is stupid enough to go into teaching for the money deserve nothing), but when I do a cost benefit analysis of them vs. Gordon's friends, I think hmmm if I have to pick I'll pick these folks. Personally I think their latest protests, and adds, are much better than the stupid idea a while back to inform parents of government cuts during parent-teacher nights (a time when the student's performance and things that can be done to help them should be the focus of discussion, unless a parent brings it up).

[HEyHEY]

6. WHat do you mean they aren't political?

Remember that commercial? How about all the shit Jinny Simms says on a regular basis? They are the most politcally outspoken Union in the province.

"Just think of the way the Liberals have bargained with organized Labour, including the teachers, over the last four years."

Remember they still pulled the same crap when the NDP was in power... even more so, I recall way more BCTF strikes when the NDP was in.

Fact is, sure they can be political, however, they use kids as a bargaining chip and that's disgusting.

I'm don't care if they wanna argue their pay, that's fine. However, they often overdramatize things and even lie sometimes.

I know teachers that hate them as well.

[V. Kid]

7. In any case...

...who is Jimmy Sims?

So what if they're the most politically outspoken union in the province. I'd debate that, since it's such a subjective statement nonethless who cares? By defenition they will be intrested in getting more money, regardless of goverment, and goverments have every right to not give them all the money in the world. Personally I think they're very recent shift in tactics, that is less obviously partisan and calls for barging in good faith is fair.

And of course they're going to use kids as a chip, in your language. Because they're teachers, they teach kids all the time, teaching revolve around kids! They have no way of avoiding it.

Should they say oh "who cares about class sizes, we don't! Just give us some more money, lest we look like we're using kids." It's completely un-avoidable. It would be like a Nurses union avoiding any talk about paitents. Or when the Doctors want more money avoiding any talk about paitents. It's completely un-realistic!

And yeah some members of their union that don't like them. This isn't suprising. It's not like any and all orginizations have completely happy members. My mom's a member of a private sector union, and while she'd prefer to have a union as opposed to not having one, she thinks (and I agree with her) that her union local is stupid. Lots of organizations have stupid/annoying people, such is life.

[HEyHEY]

8. I don't know I Said "Jinny" and she's the BCTF president

[V. Kid]

9. OK

[HEyHEY]

10. Okay to finish

It's not so subjective to see the BCTF and their strong connection to the NDP. Everytime you talk to a BCTF rep they don't just complain about education. They complain about everything the liberals have done in the province. Why? Because it's in their interest to see the NDP in again as most of them are members of that party.
But when it comes down to it, the BCTF uses the kids in this fashion. "We need more funding - it's for the kids. A better paid teacher is a more productive teacher."

[V. Kid]

11. Yeah and it's bad because?

....they're looking our for their best intrests and kids are involved? I mean I don't see how this is a horrible thing? Like it's called reality there's nothing that can be done short of laying down and letting the Liberals call the shots. And as I've already said they've become less partisan, although it's obvious they'd prefer the NDP to win. I mean hello folks the BC Liberal party is no friend of BC's non-rich, teachers fall within the non-rich category. The Liberals recipircate in the "using the kids" formula by not properly funding the system in the first place. And by always claiming that they're giving parents more choice, yet all their doing is using rhetoric as a political slight of hand while they underfund the system. I mean sure teachers will always "want more", but as we know the Liberals haven't kept up their end of the bargin by properly funding the system in the first place as such the teachers are in the right more so than in the wrong. So yeah rhetoric all round, personally I put more of the blame on the Liberals than on the BCTF.

I thought we already went through this?

[HEyHEY]

12. Ther'es teachers out there making twice as much as me

And the average person. Don't give me that "Poor teachers bollocks"

I'll tell you what's wrong with them spouting shit like that off. They are teachers, their politcal views should not be prominent like that, as it could get into the classroom. It doens't matter if you agree with their politcs or not, fact is, the have NO business getting involved like that. As well, there is no choice for parents if they don't want their children sujected to such things.

Funny how when the "Media" is being "Bias" it's terrible, but when it's those teaching our kids...it's okay. A slight bit of hypocrosy there don't ya think?

[V. Kid]

13. It's not hypocrisy at all...

...the reality is that Teachers need to defend their interests, that's what smart people do. However yes when they are in the class room their job is to teach. Why would anyone want to work for less money, in poorer working conditions no doubt when more money is available is beyond me. Since BC allegedly has a surplus, and the Campbell gov't has been making everyone who isn't rich deal with austerity, why wouldn't they want more? Lots of people want more, it's only fair, why should the rich only get the most out of our alleged recovery (something I'd debate -- that's a topic for another thread though)? Granted Teachers shouldn't except to be rich or anything, but it's not like the job requires no previous qualifications. You have to get a general BA and then you can get a teaching degree.

It just doesn't make any sense to advocate that teachers should avoid defending their interests. I said I don't think they should (hence I agree with you) bring up political issues in the class room, (except in post-secondary situations where they would still need to encourage, not stifle and allow dissent or relevant discussions in a HS such as a civics course they are thinking of introducing) or in a parent teacher conference (unless the parent wants to discuss it since the main point of the meeting is to discuss the progress of the child, as I've already said). But should the BCTF then say when they feel slighted by the government, "well even though we live in a society with free speech, and the right to organize, we shouldn't say anything because children are the focus of our work and we might look bad or offend someone if we do." This seems like a circular argument used by anti-Union folks.

Besides what teachers are making twice as much as you, supposing you make a fairly average wage? The average teacher (who actually makes only a slightly above average wage) or one in a private school? A teacher (in a BC public school) starts off at around 35,000cdn and can after many years can get 60,000cdn it's hardly a massive wage. Of course the top wage is usually for a department head that's been there for a while and usually has a masters on top of their BA and Certificate of Teaching. And that's assuming they get a full time job, and since most start of as substitutes who are paid 60% of that, 60% of 35,000 is barely above the poverty line. I have no idea how much they make in a private school, and that's completely up to the private school to determine, and the amount of money a parent is willing to pay to send their kid there. From what I understand the average family wage is 60,000 dollars, so maybe a family with two teachers as parents (with a lot of seniority, maybe department heads, that are highly educated) do really well, but should that mean all teachers should be paid less? Or that they don't deserve it? And one would think they'd get paid at least decently considering the education involved and all.

So yeah if the teachers are being biased inside the classroom there's a problem but if they are being biased outside the classroom there isn't. Everyone has a bias and they should simply admit to it, objectivity is very hard to achieve. With regards to the media they always claim "objectivity" yet apart from a few outlets such as BBC, Reuters and CBC to a certain extent, they show bias. So if they want to claim objectivity they ought not to be biased.