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Anyone have info on Diebold/ES & S software being the same? Or on criminal

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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 09:44 PM
Original message
Anyone have info on Diebold/ES & S software being the same? Or on criminal
Edited on Fri Apr-29-05 09:45 PM by Amaryllis
backgrounds on software developers for companies other than Diebold? All the criminal background seems to be on Diebold. Anyone have more on this? It would only make sense since Bob and Todd are brothers, but I haven't found info other than this:

ES&S's forerunner, American Information Systems, was founded by Bob and Todd Urosevich. The Urosevich brothers were pioneers in the development of software and hardware used in electronic voting.6 They continue to exercise enormous influence in the industry. Bob Urosevich now serves as President of Diebold Election Systems and Todd continues to serve as a top executive at ES&S.

from http://www.publicaccountability.org/election.html


Finally, on this point, it is important to note that the source code for the vote counting software for Diebold and ES&S is the same
source code. It was developed by the Urosevich brothers when they started their original company. They later split up into two
companies, and Diebold bought up one of them while the other became ES&S. But the source code for the software remained the same.

http://www.bartcop.com/110904votes.htm
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rigel99 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. GOOD PICTURE TO MAKE IT CLEAR
here is good pic to make it clear about their very scary ties of both companies..
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MontageOfFreedom Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. Excellent diagram. But there is one more...
There is a private man and his trust fund directly above the Urosovich's.....Can you figure out who it is? He's a very mis-understood man they claim who speaks to a higher power.
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rigel99 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. The Key is that IMARK database company & Jefferey Dean...
that's where all the software ends up being the same..

one other good point. I just got a copy of the GA Diebold contract.. here is the listing on my website..
GEORGIA DIEBOLD CONTRACT:... read it and weep.. full of pricing, etc.
http://www.countpaperballots.com/dieboldorlivefree/DieboldContract50.htm

a lawyer doing DRE vendor lawsuits who is chasing Sequoia says there are lots of the same Appendices , meaning it looks like the same technology is being used by Sequoia....

One other key thing.. the criminal programmer for Diebold is a guy named Jeffery Dean, who's to say they didn't share this guy

***********


Jeffrey Dean, not Jeff King. He was based in King County, Washington.

He later ran a ballot printing company that worked for Diebold. He was then hired by Diebold, given a seat on the board of directors and named senior programmer of their Diebold GEMS software that is used to operate their central tabulators.

I got this off off an Andy Stephenson radio interview.

Jeffrey Dean was not hired by Diebold. He did become the owner of Spectrum Print & Mail, a printing company shortly after he got out of prison. This company got the contract to print King County Washington's ballots.

Global Election Systems (a Canadian company founded by stock market manipulators and felons) got the contract to supply voting machines for King County in 1998.

Global Election Systems acquired Jeff Dean's company, Spectrum Print & Mail, in 2000 shortly before the presidential election. Jeff Dean was given the position of chief programmer and was also given a seat on the board of directors of Global Election Systems.

In January 2002, Diebold acquired Global Election Systems. The sale was consummated on Jan. 23, and Jeff Dean was no longer a director and was taken off as an employee and put on as a consultant.

He continued until April 2002, and rumor has it he still is on the payroll somehow, but that has never been confirmed.

According to Bev Harris's research, their are three copies of the database. The election results are written to the first one, then copied to the second with whatever modifications deemed "necessary". The election officials only can see the second database and these are the results that are printed out.

Not exactly. The election results are written to the first one and also to the second one. The election results with precinct-by-precinct results come from the first one, and the summary results come from the second one. By doing some very simple sleight of hand, it is possible to manipulate the second one and leave the first one intact. This allows the overall results to be changed, yet even a hand count of randomly selected precincts will always match the precinct-by-precinct report.

Apparently, Bev also found that they are equipped with remote control emitter/receivers. During one California primary, the results were shown in real time at a Diebold site. The only way this could have been done would have been through direct wireless access to the machines.

No. Bev Harris and Kathleen Wynne interviewed some of the people who order parts and assemble the Diebold machines, last July, in McKinney Texas and elsewhere. All of them said that wireless was ordered for the machines but they differed on whether it was to be installed in the past or the future.

You are probably thinking of the San Luis Obispo problem, which you can find documented in Chapter 13 of the Black Box Voting book, online for free at http://www.blackboxvoting.org .

That problem was initially thought to be a case of voting machines in the field calling home via telephone modems (not wireless). Then it was determined that the votes were absentee and early votes, though the accounting and reporting had some anomalies.

The vote file did show up on a Diebold FTP site, and it appears to have been saved at 3:30 p.m. on election day, a violation of California law. No one at the elections office or Diebold will admit to copying the vote file out of the San Luis Obispo County GEMS computer, nor to placing it on the Internet.

The file is tagged with a password ("sophia") and a Diebold tech named Sophia Lee was at San Luis Obispo that day, but she denies taking the file.

A Diebold memo also indicates that less than 24 hours before the election, the San Luis Obispo GEMS system was tabulating votes incorrectly.

A lot of this info disappeared, when Bev's site was hacked just after the election.

This is correct, but the hacking took place shortly before and just after the election, and the database containing the story files on this was corrupted and is now unusable.

However, you can still find the details on this, thoroughly documented, in the Black Box Voting book. Primary researchers on the San Luis Obispo story were Harris and one of the directors of Black Box Voting, Jim March.

Looks like we should also insist that the votes be counted at the precinct level before transmission.

Yes. But most places are moving away from this. When you count at the precinct, the vulnerability is the attack point during transfer of the data, or ballots, to a central point. However, if you post the precinct count publicly, you have at least some checks and balances.

When you count at a central point, as is done with all mail-in systems, punch card systems, and absentee votes, you get into the dog and pony show where it is relatively easy to do a snow job on observers.

The poll tapes, which should be signed by poll workers at the polling place and should contain both the zero report (beginning of election day) and the results (end of election day) are a good check for this, but if no one signs them, or they go missing, or chain of custody is weak, it is not difficult to game the system.





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rightfoot Donating Member (41 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Thanks. That was informative
But I couldn't find that Jeffrey Dean was with Imark, or did I misunderstand something?
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rigel99 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. he was with Diebold
sorry if I implied otherwise..
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rightfoot Donating Member (41 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Ok. I reread your post, my mistake. Don't forget Kiewit though.
Kiewit is hooked into ES&S some kind of way, and that company is into everything. Military bases, energy company, telecommunications, all kinds of stuff. Old pros at the game of corruption.
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MontageOfFreedom Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
6. They're both a front for the religious right. n/t
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rigel99 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I would postulate it goes much higher than that..
as the picture implies it stops at Bilderberg and Trilateral commission, which are old world European and Saudi money intermingled.

I even had a theory this is beyond the Christian rich families and becomes a hatfield vs. McCoy of the scale like the Saudi Money versus say the 'Rothchilds' although any time at all in London and you realize the Saudis own London (the banks, the insurance companies etc.)

the real chore is tracking who is actually controlling US elections... I feel with the voting companies it goes outside US borders to the VERY WEALTHY global magnates trying to master entire industries at a very new level...

could anyone ever think Cheney is just a pawn.. it's a new thought I've been having lately....
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MontageOfFreedom Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Cheney is more than a pawn.
This goes way beyond the trilateral, the main group investor who sponsors the head of both voting machines is on a secretive cult that's been deceiving the world for 45+ years.

Notice the Opus-Dei pope, and all the Knights of Malta governors or senators? There is a single source controlling it all.
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rigel99 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. OK, I agree cheney is big,
but I'm dying to know who's really behind Cheney... we could research Nixon years.. Cheney Rumsfeld were the old Nixon guys.... even Nixon called Rumsfeld a despot.. but who is really behind it.... I"m not sure we know that yet.....

did not recognize a single of your Opus-Dei pope references or Knights of Malta folks... is it saudi money, europe money, old wealth, what is it exactly? there are only so many billion dollar families... did they form a club? and if they did, there have to be a warring rich families faction fighting them... (for all the Rothschilds selling wine there have to be a family that controls all the whiskey, etc.)...
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MontageOfFreedom Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Nope none of that which I'm aware of.
They are all pawns. Senator Vitter, Senator Voinovich and others belong to Knights of Malta. Clarence Thomas, Antoine Scalia, Senator Santorum and Senator Frist the list goes completely down the line.

But they are all pawns, the Opus-Dei/Malta elected leaders are pawns all maintained under the same conservative cultism. Rumsfeld has recently been brought up as the leader of the World Bank now.

Do you believe they or the nationalists would be behind it? Its all smoke and mirrors to take away from the fact, there is a centralized coalition who is pulling the strings.

I'll give you a hint too start really thinking deeply about, state of Virginia and Jack Abramoff.
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rigel99 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. You meant to say Wolfowitz?

as for why He's head of World bank, The US is bankrupt, our Iraqi war cost 5 times what was projected and I predict we cannot even afford to extract our guys..

the oil which was supposed to pay for the war has trickled because of insurgents keep blowing up the pipelines...

and we need Wolfy to go rob the 3rd world countries so they can move into Iran... the key for these guys is to dominate the middle east.. the saudis are their friends until we control all the key countries around Saudi and then the will become an 'axis of evil' in the ever changing bush doctrine...

but this Abramoff link.. I'll research and study it....
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MontageOfFreedom Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Alright I can see where you're coming from, but the news has changed.
Secretary of State Rumsfeld is being sent off, and will now be president of the World Bank. You might want to read the latest news and confirm everything you're talking about.

Also, I'll PM you a link that will show a great deal what is all meant by Knight of Malta. If you keep digging right where you're at, the truth will quickly come out and you'll get it.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. You have any links, sources, verification for that statement?
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rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 01:41 AM
Response to Original message
8. Thanks for posting this. This is very important info. And rigel 99 thanks
Edited on Sat Apr-30-05 01:53 AM by rumpel
I bookmarked it.


wireless in CA ? Shelley specifically did not approve such devices for certification.
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rigel99 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. tanks....
want to know more about shelley, get in touch with Jim march of black box voting..he knows the most.... I can give you his email if ya need it... just PM me.....
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RedEagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
14. ES&S goes back to Business Records Corp.
Which seems to go back to Texas again.

Chapter 8, Black Box Voting (www.blackboxvoting.org) Click on link to book from home page.

Is the source code of ES&S and Diebold the same? I don't think that statement can be made with certainty, at least not yet.

Diebold had its beginnings in a Canadian company, Global.

The fact that two brothers are involved with each company is of course, very interesting, but the APPEARANCE is that the companies are not from the same root source.
:shrug:

What you do have is too much control in too narrow a circle.

Jeffrey Dean is the embezzler who was made a director and John Elder has the drug background and is the one in charge of the printing.

Now, if you could link BRC with Global, that would be VERY interesting.
;-)
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rigel99 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. who is BRC
sorry if I missed the reference earlier....
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Printer networking/ informational/ social group.
Edited on Sat Apr-30-05 12:59 PM by btmlndfrmr
In the 80's ...mover and shaker printers, vendors and direct mail folks would/should have been members of this club.

https://www.iaphc.org/about/
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. This statement, while not conclusive, hints that the software may be the
same. Who knows what changes Jeff Dean made to Global ELection Systems software? Or did he do his thing before it was Diebold?

ES&S's forerunner, American Information Systems, was founded by Bob and Todd Urosevich. The Urosevich brothers were pioneers in the development of software and hardware used in electronic voting.6 They continue to exercise enormous influence in the industry. Bob Urosevich now serves as President of Diebold Election Systems and Todd continues to serve as a top executive at ES&S.

from http://www.publicaccountability.org/election.html
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sunshinekathy Donating Member (177 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-05 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
21. ES&S and Diebold are Very DIFFERENT Today
I am the founder of http://UtahCountVotes.org and the President of http://USCountVotes.org and I have had recent opportunities to both view Diebold and ES&S DREs and Op Scan systems and speak with representatives of both companies recently.

I learned that today, there is a huge difference between the two companies:

Diebold continues to spend the lion's share of its money on Lobbyists and has done little, if anything, to improve its voting systems.

ES&S, on the other hand, is spending little, if anything, on lobbyists, and is spending a lot of money on developing and improving its voting systems. For examples on what ES&S has been doing:

1. ES&S offers the AutoMARK Op Scan paper ballot system which is approved by the National Federation of the Blind, is wheelchair accessible, and uses easily audited hand-countable paper ballots,..

2. ES&S uses a more secure, UNIX like, operating system for its voting equipment (whereas Diebold uses easily hackable Microsoft).

3. ES&S has developed an open source means for independently auditing its DRE paper rolls. (I still don't like DREs for a lot of reasons, but at least ES&S's are now independently geek-auditable for anyone who wants to build their own system to audit the paper trails.)

I highly recommend going with ES&S over Diebold, and I would not have said that as little as a month ago, but I've had an opportunity to investigate both systems lately.

In Utah, Diebold has already assumed that it has the contract and many of the Utah Voting Equipment Selection Cmte had decided to go with Diebold due to its lobbying efforts and the ignorance of the majority of members on our voting equipment selection cmte which includes not even one computer scientist who is a voting system or security expert.

FYI, Friends of Diebold seem to be spreading behind-the-scenes false rumours about the ES&S Op Scan paper ballot - claiming that it is not large enough to handle as many ballot issues as the old punch-card systems. That is patently false. The largest punch-card has 228 holes, whereas the largest Op Scan ballot, with large font size (larger than on the DRE paper rolls) has about 300 lines (2-sided 19" ballot w/ 2 columns). However it can have many more by using smaller font size and adding a tear off tab with the instructions.

Best,

Kathy Dopp
http://electionarchive.org

Best,

Kathy
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GettysbergII Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-05 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Off topic: Poll analysists meeting in Florida
Hi Kathy,

I was talking to Ron Baiman after an election forum in Oak Park, IL on Saturday and he mentioned that there was to be a big meeting in May of poll analysts in Florida. I believe he said that given the entrance fee of $500 plus travel and hotel costs that US Count Votes couldn't afford to send anyone to keep them honest. Given the projects US Count Votes is already undertaking (and needs ongoing funding for), how critical is it to have US Count Votes participation in this conference. Obviously with limited funding you must pick your battles carefully.

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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-05 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
22. This info might help (sorry didn't read this thread)

From a June 2002 ES&S VP email to a potential customer, respondingto a concern over whether ES&S could integrate with the county's existing sequoia-based opscan system:

" is only shared today becaue of the Department of Justice requirement to sell rights for the Optech Technology to Sequoia when AIS acquired BRC over four years ago . This was done to promote competition in the county election industry when ES&S would be considered the dominant provider in the US."

The county sole sourced to Sequoia touch screens, over this ES&S objection that it was not the only one capable of integrating with the pre-existing SEquoia opscan technology.
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Rigel-you got the Bilderberg/Hagel connection too--
Very good--

From:
http://www.namebase.org/cgi-bin/nb06?Na=HAGEL+CHUCK

Bilderberg Group. Meeting Participants. June 3-6, 1999 in Portugal.
The name "Bilderberg" came from the group's first meeting place, the Hotel de Bilderberg of Oosterbeek, Holland, in May 1954. Over the next 47 years the secret meetings have included most of the top ruling-class players from Western Europe and America. Until he was implicated in the Lockheed bribery scandal in 1976, Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands served as chairman. By now Bilderberg is a symbol of world management by Atlanticist elites. Some observers, particularly those on the Right, feel that it borders on the conspiratorial, while the Left is primarily interested in its implications for what they call "power structure research." The Bilderberg participants from the U.S. are almost always members of the Council on Foreign Relations, and since 1973 Japanese elites have been brought into the fold through a third overlapping group, the Trilateral Commission.
This list of 111 participants from 24 countries was found on the Web. While discussions during the sessions are not reported publicly, the list of participants is usually available. Those attending are always careful to insist that they participate as individuals and not as representatives of their government. Since top leaders of major countries attend, it appears that this is a convenient fiction designed to sidestep public scrutiny.----
----------------------------------------------

AND---

Datamation, Nov 1, 1986 v32 p54(5)


This is where Computer Election Systems of Berkeley, Calif., enters the picture. Founded in the 1960s by former IBM employees, CES has since become a division of Business Records Corp., Dallas, and its name has been changed to BRC Election Services. It is the company whose machines have most frequently been criticized by specialists and whose officers have been accused in court of helping put in the fix. CES's machine, critics claim, relies on a heap of spaghetti code that is so messy and so complex that it might easily contain hidden mechanisms for being quietly reprogrammed "on the fly" (see "Suing CES").


BRC, once an independent company, was recently purchased by Cronus Industries, a Dallas-based firm understood to control several other companies that supply vote-counting equipment.

>snip<.

Suits have been filed against CES by losing candidates in Indiana, West Virginia, Maryland, and Florida, charging the company and local election officials with miscounting votes. Several of the suits are on appeal, but none of the plaintiffs has won a case yet. CES has denied all wrongdoing.

>snip<

Farmer, Springer, and Strumwasser identified three vulnerable elements in the mainframe-based systems of the time, namely the supervisor, or operating systems, the object deck, and the vote-counting program itself. Each, they showed, could be modified in ways that would be undetected by the unaware system operator. "Many techniques of computer vote fraud require the access of only one person and, at most, an operator and a programmer."

>snip<


Bus. Coll.: 27T0420
Mag. Coll.: 36F4300

Article A4549773



(c) 2005 by The Gale Group, Inc.

If you want I can send those interested --the entire article-email on my sig-
Roj






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