Do not let the ballots leave the precinct until they are Hand Counted

[kster]

1) We have been taught don't leave the store until you Hand Count your change.

2)The banks want you to Hand Count your money before you leave the window.

This is so opposite of what we have been taught...

"Brunner has requests in hand from Cuyahoga County, which includes Cleveland in northeast Ohio, and the much smaller Van Wert and Mercer counties in western Ohio. The three switched for the March 4 primary from touch-screen electronic voting to paper ballots that are collected from various precincts and scanned at one central location".


http://www.tribunechronicle.com/page/content.detail/id/48721.html?isap=1&nav=5031



Why are our ballots collected from our neighborhoods/precincts and counted out of our view at a central location?

Please ask yourself these questions, Why do the ballots have to leave the neighborhood/precinct?

How do you know that the ballots are being hand counted/audited to verify that the machine counted correct when the ballots are out of your view?



Just asking.

[ColbertWatcher]

1. Excellent point!

I just hope it doesn't disappear before the morning rush comes.

It seems recs and page views are a matter of timing around here!

[flashl]

2. In 2000, 27,000 ballots from precincts in Jax, Fl were allegedly LOST while chads were the focus.

[Peace Patriot]

3. As long as there is "trade secret" code between us and the results of our elections,

whether it's by touchscreen or optiscan, our election results are absurdly, egregiously, outrageously, mind-bogglingly UNRELIABLE.

A paper ballot does not make an election secure unless the ballots are, a) COUNTED, and b) in PUBLIC VIEW. An optiscan scanner run on "TRADE SECRET" code does NOT constitute PUBLIC VIEW. There is only one thing that does: one person counting the ballots while others, including any citizen of the country who wants to, WATCHES them do it. Opstican 'counting' is one election theft scam. CENTRALIZED optiscan 'counting'--where votes are transported OUT OF PUBLIC VIEW *BEFORE* THEY ARE COUNTED, is another. And centralized hand-counting--even without a "TRADE SECRET" code machine--is a third. All three are INHERENTLY fraudulent--not just insecure and unreliable, not just stupid, and not just when there are anomalous numbers and unexpected results, but inherently fraudulent. There is NO REASON for secret vote counting EXCEPT fraud.

Not enough money.
Not enough people.
Too many voters.
Too many items on the ballot.
Inconvenience.
Slowness--lack of instant results.

These are BULLSHIT. There is NO REASON for secret vote counting EXCEPT fraud.

Not enough money--bullshit. They've given all the money--BILLIONS!--to rightwing Bushite voting machine corporations.
Not enough people--bullshit. They've driven people away with their corporate "culture of secrecy."
Too many voters--yeah, if you consider them to be cannon fodder and slave labor.
Too many items on the ballot--so what?
Inconvenience--whose?
Slowness--lack of instant results--corporate media-driven bullshit. Canada handcounts them all in one day. And even if it takes a month, that is not TOO MUCH TIME for accurate, reliable, PUBLICLY-COUNTED results.

We have an inherently fraudulent vote counting system, all over the country, rushed into place during the 2002 to 2004 period, for the purpose of CONTINUING the war and massive corporate looting. What else does it have to do to us, before we wake up and restore TRANSPARENT vote counting--and democracy? This time, it may not give us McBush--that might cause Boston Tea Party II, the dumping of the machines. This egregiously non-transparent, Bushite-controlled vote counting may instead be used to severely SHAVE Obama's mandate, and/or give him a difficult Congress (say, packed with "Blue Dog" Democrats), so that he can accomplish exactly nothing on our behalf. We CAN'T KNOW how our vote counts are being manipulated, or to what end, if the votes are not counted in PUBLIC VIEW. The only way we know that Obama has won the nomination is the CAUCUSES, which are NOT COUNTED BY DIEBOLD & BRETHREN.

Really. That's it. Nothing else is trustworthy. No corporate poll. No Diebold & brethren count. The surge of grass roots, people support for Obama in the caucuses are why I'm backing him. Otherwise, I wouldn't know--and nobody else CAN know--what went down. Until it was evident that Obama was winning the caucuses I wasn't sure who was the global corporate predator candidate. Given our global corporate predator media, you cannot easily tell who's who and what's what. I'm STILL not sure, but I do believe in THE PEOPLE, and I think that the amazing citizen activism of Obama's supporters at the least gives us a basis on which to recreate our democracy--it is THE essential element--as well as assuring that, whoever Obama really is, he will be more beholden to THE PEOPLE than Clinton, and most certainly than McBush. Because of what happened in the caucuses.

[Stevepol]

4. K&R. Glad to be #5.

[electropop]

5. Paper not Vapor! Paper not Vapor! Public transparent hand-counts!

Good lord what part of this is hard for the public and our Dem "leaders" to understand?

[robinlynne]

6. right you are!

[tbyg52]

7. >>Why do the ballots have to leave the neighborhood/precinct?

So there's greater opportunity for flim-flam. That's about it.....

[kster]

8. The biggest con game on the planet, how to get the ballots out of

the neighborhoods after an election. Hmm, how bout we smuggle them out in our new shiny electronic looking ballot box, the people will buy it, and we bought the scam, not only the scam we bought their ballot smuggling boxes.


When you figure out the simplicity of how they do this scam you just got to
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:rofl:

[L. Coyote]

9. WHY? So the election can be fixed!

Ask if the ballots that arrive at the central tabulator are the same ones that leave the precinct!

With punch cards, they switched ballots to the wrong precinct, and that changed Kerry votes to Bush votes.
What happens if you do the same thing with the new paper ballots?
Do different precincts have different ballot orders?
Are the ballots labeled by precinct?
Who is transporting the ballots?

Can someone just make a pile of ballots, and switch those for voter ballots?

[kster]

10. I would just take millions of American ballots to China

and for a nickel an hour, I would have them fill out ballots, and just switch the China ballots with the Actual American ballots while I was enroute to the "counting" facility, it would be easy as long as the Americans went along with me taking their ballots from their own neighborhoods before they are Hand Counted by the people in that neighborhood, I could get away with all kinds of shit,The possibilities would be endless.

Now all I have to do is convince Americans why I have to take their ballots out of their neighborhood to do the count....Oh wait Americans already allow this.




:)

[L. Coyote]

11. Can they be precinct switched? Saves the trip to China!!

To change a Kerry vote to Bush with punch cards, you only had to move it to the next precinct's pile.

Can they still do that?

[kster]

12. The possibilties are endless once the ballots leave the neighborhood uncounted

by the hands of the people.

[L. Coyote]

13. Do they bear precinct identifications? Are candidate orders rotated?

How easy is it to cheat?

[kster]

14. If the people would stand up and say we will be hand counting the ballots

before the ballots leave the precinct, it wouldn't be a problem, but they don't, if the people allow their ballots to leave the precinct then I guess marking the ballots Precinct A precinct B so on and so forth would be a small security measure to make sure the ballots don't get shuffled between precincts, in order to make the machine count appear accurate.

If the politicians can snatch our ballots out of our neighborhoods before we count them, and the ballots in every precinct look the same, meaning they don't have any marks on them that says what precinct they are from, we are double screwed.

If they randomly select precincts, lets say precinct A and F for their audit, and the ballots in precinct A and F are not marked with A and F, they can take ballots from -BCDE-GHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXY-OR-Z and just add them to A and F, where they see fit.

Am I getting this right? :shrug: