Just unsubscribed from Obama's e-mail list. Here's my reason to him:

[WillParkinson]

Because I would never vote for someone who associated with bigots and their lies. Someone who would pander to religious zealots to get votes. Someone who claims to be a friend of gays and lesbians and then says something as foolish as "MCCLURKIN DOES NOT WANT TO CHANGE GAYS AND LESBIANS WHO ARE HAPPY WITH THEIR LIVES AND HAS CRITICIZED CHURCH LEADERS WHO DEMONIZE HOMOSEXUALS," as if being gay was a CHOICE.

Thanks, but I'd rather sit this election out than support such a person.

***

Was I too harsh?

[Fredda Weinberg]

1. I unsubscribed after the first unsolicited request from the Obama

campaign. What a shame.

[terisan]

2. No you were mild.

[Dawgs]

3. No. You have right to be mad at Obama about McClurkin.

If you really do care about gay rights, I would hope you would at lease consider voting for him in the GE.

For instance, pretend it was Huckalbee vs. Obama.

Huckalbee actually thinks being gay is a choice. Obama is at least in favor of civil unions.

[jackpan1260]

4. I signed up for Obama's email list a few weeks ago

but you weren't too harsh. I like Obama and I don't like Clinton. We all have our reasons.

[patrice]

5. Dont' support him. Support us. Let's take your issues to The People. Edwards or Un-committed . .

All of the Way.

P.S. Does it matter to you if some of us think it's your own business even if it is a "choice"? Right or Wrong, you MUST decide, your own "salvation" depends upon that.

[Maven]

12. I don't understand your last two sentences

"Does it matter to you if some of us think it's your own business even if it is a "choice"? Right or Wrong, you MUST decide, your own "salvation" depends upon that."

What do you mean?

[patrice]

19. I hear so often that Homosexuality is not a choice and I keep thinking

that I don't care if it is. The question has to do with how some GLBT seem to take offense if you think at least some of this behavior could be something other than biologically pre-determined. People say it's not a choice and get mad if you think there are some who DO choose it. And I'm saying I don't care whether it's a choice or not. I am a Catholic from the '60s and we were told that, except on matters specifically limited to dogma (a word that gets misused frequently these days), the individual conscience has primacy. Why would the sacarement of Penance be necessary if that weren't true? Wouldn't confession and forgivness be pretty much a group activity if individual conscience were not necessary?

I am just saying that as long as we're not talking about someone taking advantage of someone else, which BTW can and does happen as much or more in hetero-sexual relationships as it does in homosexual ones, whether a homosexual act is good or bad is theologically none of my business, because only the individual in his/her individual relationship with whatever "God" is can know whether it's good or bad. And even if a given sexual act IS bad, there's no way anyone, other than the people involved, can know that that sin is any worse than, say, not giving a can of beans to the Poor, because the severity of a sin is also a matter between the individual person and whatever "God" is. This means we have to entertain the possibility that not giving a can of beans to the Poor can be a much greater sin than sodomy.

So you can see that, to me, the whole question of "choice" or "pre-determined" sexual orientation is theologically beside the point and I was asking someone if they are offended by that.

[xchrom]

6. recommend

:applause:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

7. dont sit out the election. as bad as obama is, huckabee wants to quarantine us

please dont forget that

[qb]

8. I just unsubscribed too.

I share your sentiments and do not think you were too harsh. Here's how my explanation came out:

"I do not believe that you are truly committed to LGBT equality. You say the right things, but only in venues that are relatively safe from the scrutiny of anti-LGBT bigots. If you can't speak out loud for what is right and fair during your campaign how can I trust you to as president?"

I will, however, vote for the Democratic nominee--whoever it is--in the general election.

[cloudythescribbler]

9. McClurkin's views have NOTHING to do with Obama's; he has directly addressed this very plainly

[WillParkinson]

11. Believe what you will

I'll do the same. Whether you share the views or not, you're still using gays as a way to get votes. You're allowing a person you claim not to agree with speak at your event while he demonizes gays and lesbians. I don't care if he says he doesn't share those beliefs. He gave bigotry a stage. He gave hate a voice. He gave self-loathing a face. Then says that McClurkin only wants to change unhappy homosexuals.

Sorry. Bigotry isn't something you can listen to and just say you don't agree with it. If you don't fight it at every opportunity you're just as guilty as the person who is spouting the vile untruths.

[cboy4]

15. Well if they have NOTHING to do with Obama's, then

he shouldn't have allowed him to perform for his campaign.

That was an illogical thing to do, right cloudy?

[cloudythescribbler]

28. No, the campaign had ALREADY invited this popular gospel singer --

and as a subsequent interview with Obama (I think it was in the ADVOCATE) made clear, McClurkin had NOT been fully vetted politically before the invitation, as he was not a 'spokesperson'.

Once the issue was raised, Obama (not unreasonably, in my arrogant opinion) decided to be INCLUSIVE rather than EXCLUSIVE, inviting a gay pastor and reiterating his support for gay rights.

I don't get this -- is someone's image tainted by the views of everyone supporting them who has ANY sort of appearance? Should the history, say of Sen Byrd or even the gaffes of Biden somehow disqualify any Democratic candidate on whose podium (or at whose convention) they appear. That just is an unreal standard.

[cboy4]

33. How would you feel cloudy if a gay candidate for president

allowed someone from the KKK to perform at a campaign event, because he/she was trying to be "inclusive" rather than be "exclusive?"

Probably wouldn't go over very well in the black community, and they'd have every right to be furious...especially if the gay candidate was warned ahead of time that the performer was a bigot.

Your other examples are apples and oranges.

[cloudythescribbler]

35. Would I equate McClurking with the KKK? No. Do I necessarily think that, in terms of perfect ...

handling of the situation where someone was coming, was popular with Obama's constituents (or hoped for constituents) as a singer, etc was ideal? No. He probably could have selected someone different to appear as 'the gay representation', and made sure that this individual both spoke at the opening in a very general way about 'universal humanity' and acceptance of our brothers & sisters, etc. WHO ALSO WOULD BE SCHEDULED TO HAVE THE LAST WORD.

Obviously, Obama's campaign was in a situation where EITHER some gays OR some of his other constituents would be very offended. He tried to pursue a course that would be least offensive to all concerned overall. Was his handling perfect? No. Do I equate McClurkin with an organization with a history of over 125 years of murder, rape, and lynching of thousands of victims? No. McClurkin's views about gays are more fairly compared say, with Moynihan's views on 'the black family' (for which Dr King took him to task) which are so widely offensive to many African-Americans and non-African American progressives. Although violence against gays is widespread, I am not aware of the existence of ANY national organization or network comparable to the KKK; further, McClurkin, to my knowledge is neither a practioner nor an advocate of the kinds of violent attacks on anyone for which the KKK is infamous.

I would add that there are plenty of people who would take deep offense at the analogy to the KKK, thinking that the evils of the latter have been belittled. Political correctness should be a vehicle for people to avoid offense (essentially like 'protocol') and not a goldmine for people to use to magnify tensions and differences in society. (It is in keeping with the latter notion that I myself merely try to refute your analogy rather than take offense at it -- as MANY progressives would).

[Tektonik]

17. well if he'd properly apologize I would know that

Although it's becoming too late for a sincere apology.

[cloudythescribbler]

29. I for one do NOT think Obama is morally required to apologize for McCLURKIN's views

What WAS necessary, which he did adequately, was to clearly distinguish his own views on the issue from McClurkin's and make unambiguously clear that McClurkin's appearance and views were ENTIRELY independent of and not in any way endorsed by the campaign.

What I worry about are PATTERNS (eg the HRC campaign with several nearly simultaneous instances of race-baiting) from those gaffes or difficult situations that arise from time to time in the campaign (something Obama made clear).

I would similarly see ONE alleged instance of voter intimidation in NV to be in the same category roughly. A major presidential campaign is a massive development and these things DO happen. Obama has apologized plenty when the situation called for it (eg missing the vote on Kyl/Lieberman) and is clearly as supportive of gay rights as ANY of the leading Democratic contenders.

There is no doubt that Kucinich might very well be better than the three on gay rights as on so many other issues.

[WillParkinson]

32. So...

"This isn't my view, but I'll use it to get votes", is OK?

Thank you, but no thank you. I'm not a bargaining chip.

Oh, and by the way...

"Aides to Barack Obama's who are concerned about his fortunes nationally cast his decision not to kick Donnie McClurkin off the program of a gospel concert the campaign was hosting as a principled decision, part of the Illinois senator's constant rhetoric of bringing people together even if they disagree. Aides in South Carolina cited a more obvious consideration: despite the singer's controversial comments in the past about homosexuality, which he has likened to a "curse" and said is a choice, he would be a big draw."

http://www.americablog.com/2007/10/obama-issues-3-page-memo-explaining.html

[cloudythescribbler]

34. The fallacy here is: you PRESUME McClurkin was selected to sing/mc BECAUSE of his antigay views ...

and there really is no evidence to suggest that Obama's very denials of such (eg in his very frank interview in the ADVOCATE that I read on DU)are anything less than wholly accurate.

The Obama campaign had selected McClurkin, a popular gospel singer in an area where gospel is popular, and then five days before the event (or so) the Human Rights Campaign brought to his and his campaign's attention McClurkin's antigay views. Obama was in a difficult spot and chose (whether rightly or wrongly, I certainly think in good faith) to have a gay pastor appear (some complain that it was a WHITE pastor) and to firmly assert his support for gay rights and sharp difference from McClurkin's overall view.

Is it possible that swarms of people will simply ignore these points and act (without documenting it) on the presumption that it is known or evidenced that McClurkin was selected SPECIFICALLY to appeal to homophobia, when no such presumption has been evidenced (over and above the narrative I've related) AT ALL.

[WillParkinson]

36. Presume?

I presume no such thing.

What I'm saying is that his beliefs were known at the time. That should have been taken into account. It was not. Or, if it was, it was deemed unimportant.

It's funny to me that we demand accountability from our elected officials on nearly every subject, but when it comes to this so many people are willing to give him a free pass.

That's their choice. I respect it if they so choose. I, however, will not.

[monmouth]

10. If he's a Regan admirer, I'm outta there...n/t

[Maven]

13. No, you weren't

I also unsubscribed from Kerry's list after I started getting emails from Obama.

[patrice]

20. me too! nt

[Scriptor Ignotus]

14. right. Huckabee is a much better choice for the GLBT community

sorry, it's always the better of two evils. I understand your concerns, I really do, but his stance on GLBT issues is way, way, way better than any Republican. Hopefully you don't live in a swing state.

[queerart]

18. Be Afraid... Very Afraid......

This used to be a very good way to heard Queers into doing what everyone else wanted..........

As you can see.... it doesn't seem to work so well anymore.....

Maybe the Community has gotten sick to death of being scared, and are not willing to simply vote in a certain way because someone cried Wolf...

What the Hell happened to the good ole' days..... when Queers were just happy not to have the shit beat out of them.....

Oh the fading smell of good times long since gone.......

You should have raised the Terrorist Alert System to "You Better Be Very Fucking Afraid".... maybe that would have helped your argument?

[Scriptor Ignotus]

25. fair enough.

if Huckabee wins the Presidency YOU BETTER BE VERY FUCKING AFRAID. That's not hyperbole. You remember the story of the boy who cried wolf, right? At the end of the story the wolf comes into town and kills the flock. Just saying.

[queerart]

26. Thanks....

I do appreciate the fact that you were able to up the anti.......


"Hinting" in a Grimm's fashion that Queers might get killed if we don't do what you want us to worked on me.....


How about everyone else?


You know, Queers have survived the Church, the Concentration Camps, and the relentless pounding we have received for the last 7 years....


Huckabee is unacceptable even to Republicans..... especially to those who hold the purse strings......


But I guess him winning one contest makes him a shoo in for the Whitehouse.... so it's all over.... the winner has been chosen..... the other candidates should just pack up, and go home.....


Not to mention Bloomburg..... who will very likely jump into the race, who has the network, friends, and more over money to win the Whitehouse.......


Now please tell me that you will hurt a Bunny... or stick gum in my hair if I don't act in the way you want me to...... or I will be sadly disappointed.....

[Scriptor Ignotus]

27. the OP wanted to sit out the election rather than vote for Obama

I said, "hey, that's not a better solution". you took that to mean that I am dictating to you how to vote. if you don't see how's that's ridiculous I don't know what to tell you. Cheers.

[queerart]

30. You Don't Say?

Why did you not address the fact that Huckabee is unelectable?


That WAS the premise of your argument... that Huckabee was going to win and beat the Queers into the dirt OR WORSE if people didn't vote for Obama.......


That was the argument to scare the Fags, right?..... That they need to run to the Obama camp for protection, correct?


From the Money men on down...... Republicans are running away from Huckabee, and you know it......


You didn't mention the Bloomburg factor....... or the very real, and present fact that Huckabee has won only one
contest.....


... and now that no one has bought anything off the Fear Merchant Wagon.... painting one as "ridiculous" is the next tool to be used....


Your shadow argument for your candidate is "ridiculous"..... as Obama may get his ass handed to him.......


My... My... then what to do..... Who Shall You Vote For Then?


... and I tell you what Mary...... chances are, if Huckabee is elected to the Whitehouse and I'm Fucked....... Guess what hon, you'll be Fucked right along with me......


Oh wouldn't life be better if everyone would just do what they are supposed to...... what you tell them too....


I have no ax to grind against Obama no matter what you believe..... as I think there is little difference between the Democrats, and Republicans......


What I do however take offense to...... is the "Chicken Little, The Sky Is Falling Bullshit" that people like to employ to control others...


... and Cheers to you as well Kitten..... and Please Have An Austin Powers Day......

[FreeState]

16. Obamas campaign called me yesterday

I have never signed up on his site for anything. My cellphone number is not available to anyone but the DNC has it for some reason. Is the DNC giving out my phone number to every campaign?

I told them I would not vote for Obama or donate a cent to him unless he apologizes and explained the whole situation to the woman on the phone. She was very kind - I did notice they were talking up Kerry's endorsement...

[mitchtv]

21. Yes , a little.

If he gets the nod, be prepared to hod your nose (nothing new), and vote. You rather have Huckabee, Romney, et al ?. I like Edwards, but I know I have to vote anyway in the end. i hope you decide to vote also

[David Zephyr]

22. You'll naturally send the same message to the Clintons who have praised the Pope & Billy Graham.

.

[WillParkinson]

23. I'm sorry...

Did they have him up on stage where he condemned gays and lesbians and made it seem like it was a choice?

This has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton. BTW, I don't like her, either, but for different reasons.

You've cast your vote. You've made your choice known in both the booth and on the forums.

This is my decision. Respect it like you asked us to respect yours.

[Jamastiene]

24. Not too harsh at all.

Obama is a DINO who will be outed as such before this is all over. We know the truth now. It spares us the shock and horror some of those who are now drinking the Kool Aid will experience late. No, not too harsh at all.

[bigwillq]

31. Good for you!

:hi: :hug:

I was never on his e-mail list. Thank goodness.