Tim Kaine - "Too Liberal to be Virginia's next Governor"

[Island Blue]

Have any of you folks in Virginia seen Jerry Kilgore's really stupid commercial dissing Tim Kaine? I guess that level of third grade humor plays well to conservative voters. And don't forget - use the "L" word. Boo! How do you guys think this race is going to play out?

[TayTay]

1. Is the debate tonight? I thought C-Span was showing it

I was going to watch. I heard they had trouble getting all the stations to carry it. (Is this true?) I also heard that Kaine asked Kerry not to come to VA, as he thought it might hurt him, but he took his money. Is this true?

[Mass]

2. This was reported in Washington Times and would not surprise me

as Kaine has done all he could to distance himself from Kerry (not that it worked well last year in the Senatorial elections - the two only new Dems elected had events with Kerry). (The same article reported that Kerry was coming to VA this month, but would not campaign for Kaine).

http://washingtontimes.com/metro/20050927-102814-7073r.htm

However, kerry sent email asking for money for Kaine.

[fedupinBushcountry]

4. I say Fuck Kaine

I will vote for him but that is it. Earlier this year he said a few choice words about Kerry and it turned me off to him completely. I am sorry but the bashing of fellow Dems is not the right way to go.

[fedupinBushcountry]

3. Kilgore's commercials are stupid

I'm not sure which one you are talking about but I just saw an animated one, and it was pure awful, made no sense what so ever, and was downright childish. Earlier in the year they had one with Kerry ( and that gawd awful picture of him that Bushco used)you know using him as equal with Kerry, all of their ads suck. I keep on getting all their ads in the mail and I put on them return to sender not wanted here.

Tonight at 7 p,m, they will be having a live debate between Kaine and Kilgore on C-Span.

I think Kaine will win unless they fix the votes, which I really think they did last year. I see more Kaine signs on private residents all around this heavy repub area.

Clark is going to be here this week but at a fundraiser luncheon at $500. or $1,000 per head, but I will fore go that, I'm to poor, but at least I was invited.

I hope Kerry comes and it is free to listen to him speak, I am crossing my fingers.

[Island Blue]

5. Yeah, the animated one is the one I was referring to

It looks like third graders were their targeted audience. It's always strange seeing political commercials for people you can't even vote for (or against).

[beachmom]

6. I am so with you on Kaine, Fedup

He made an unbelievably dumb windsurfing comment about Kerry that was utter bullshit, that could have come from Coulter or Limbaugh. AND he's pro-life, a major turnoff for me. I didn't give him any money, but I will vote for him. I mean, can we have some real Dems in Virginia? I'm more pessimistic than you, Fedup. I think Kilgore will win based on polls I've seen, but here's hoping I'm wrong. I mean this is a majorly red state, and Warner was the exception, not the rule. But maybe Virginians will surprise me and vote for common sense.

[TayTay]

7. I read that Kerry is going to be in VA this week

but not at a Kaine event. Again, they take Kerry's money and offers of help to fund-raise nationally, but they don't want Kerry himself. I belive the Senator, who has been around the block on this stuff several times after all, doesn't take it personally. He understands political reality.

What did you think of the debate. I thought Kilgore has a terrible speaking voice. He has an incredibly soft voice. (Okay, maybe I'm just not used to it.)

[JI7]

8. i think he understands

it's not about him personally but they are just afraid of the whole "liberal massachusettes" association which isn't too popular among some in certain parts of the country.

it happened regularly during the campaign when these Democrats would never appear with him but he would regularly talk them up at the same time and praise them.

the worst was probably the North Carolina Gov not appearing at any of the events Kerry was at in NC. he should have been there just because Edwards from his home state was on the major party ticket. i believe Erskine Bowles showed up. seeing these people with Kerry at smaller events on Cspan though, they seem to really like him.

[beachmom]

9. Mark Warner appeared with Kerry in Norfolk

Although he didn't have to stand for re-election. But here's an interesting question. Will Pres. * come to VA to support Kilgore? I mean not some fundraising event but actually come and campaign for him. Just was curious how the GOP views the pres.'s impact on this election -- postive, negative, no effect.

I did watch part of the debate. It was hilarious, because Kilgore was supposed to be the tough on crime, mean spiritied Republican but all I could think of was Mr. Rogers! I didn't believe him, and stopped listening to his words, instead in my mind he was breaking out in song "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood, a beautiful day in the neighborhood, would you be mine, could you be mine?". Anyway, I thought Kaine did a good job being FOR things, while Kilgore mostly just attacked Kaine. However, I find Kaine's "pro-life" position troubling -- I think Kerry's position, as a Catholic also, was more sincere. Kaine said he was pro-life but then said he would uphold the laws of the state. There's a name for that, and it's called pro-choice. Kilgore, on the other hand, reflects the usual GOP position -- condemning abortion, yet pretending the woman has nothing to do with it, and is a victim. What a joke -- neither the doctor nor the state is asking her to have an abortion. SHE is. If you think abortion is wrong, and you want to criminalize it, then the woman is part of that. But that doesn't sound "nice", does it? Therefore, as the Supreme Court goes more to the right, presumably, abortion is going to be more of a problem for the GOP. 2004 may be a peak for the pro-life movement, and it's down hill from there. Just my opinion.

[beachmom]

10. A few more thoughts on the governor's debate

First and foremost, as I watched them debate I was filled with a combination of sadness and nostalgia for Kerry and how well he debated a year ago. Although I can read about him here, I do miss him, and his presence on the TV and in the newspaper. And I miss that feeling of hope after watching those debates, that he would be our next president. It brings back for me my puzzlement that so many people voted for *, how they could have seen the world so differently than me.

Secondly, going back to abortion, I think they did a MUCH better job for the governor's debate on this question than in the presidential debate. It was Kerry who was put on the defensive, not *. There was no follow up on whether * advocated putting women and doctors in jail. (That really is the dark side of the pro-life position. I think the pro-choice movement needs their version of "partial birth abortion" -- something that is symbolic that can display the ugliness of forcing women to carry out pregnancies against their will. Maybe that 13 year old girl in FL's story could be one.) So Kerry was made to look "evil" (I did think he did an excellent job answering the question, but the cards were stacked against him), while * came across as a savior for their movement, without any tough questions about how such a position affects women. In 2008, we, the people, should demand REAL debates, where there can be follow ups so that candidates MUST answer the tough questions. Kerry would have thrived with this. As it is, he did an excellent job, but the more difficult the debate parameters, the BETTER he would have done.

[karynnj]

11. I agree with you on the abortion questions and on the debate

I aso think that if Kaine and Kerry were alone in a room with no micropnones - and discussed their positions on abortion there would likely be little difference between them. The differences would in fact come mostly from their experiences.

From Kerry's debate comments and these here, both personally are not pro-abortion. When Kaine says he will uphold the law, he runs the risk of a follow up question of whether his administration would fight efforts to change the law. There's a big difference between "upholding the law" and "Fighting to prevent the law from changing".

Kerry, as a legislator, has had to examine the ramifications of changing the law. If he were motivated by politics, he probably would have voted against partial birth abortion and for parental notification. In the debates, he volunteered why he thought both were bad laws. It was his honesty that brought these issues up to explain them properly.

I agree that a debate format that allowed interaction would have helped Kerry. None of the moderators considered pushing Bush to actually answer questions. The down side is that Bush would have been at such a disadvantage that some might have criticized Kerry for pushing him. (I do agree that where Kerry answered the toughest side of the social issue questions, Bush was allowed to just spout pieties. The real question on abortion is what do you want the crimes to be defined as and what should the penalties be.)

[beachmom]

12. Nobody is pro-abortion, it's just another lie from the Right

Pro-abortion would mean that you ENCOURAGE women to have abortions, and I don't know of anybody out there doing that. The question, and the only question, is do you or do you not want to make abortion illegal? The Republicans were clever with their "partial birth abortion" crap (it's a procedure rarely used), because it put them on the record making a late term, rare abortion procedure illegal. But, that's not when most abortions happen. So it's really a joke in substance, as far as preventing the "murder" pro-lifers are so upset by. What is it -- 90% or more of abortions occur in the 1st trimester.

One other thing -- with all due respect to Mr. Kerry and Mr. Kaine, if they were to get a woman pregnant, sorry, but it's the woman's choice what to do, not theirs. Sure, they can be included in the decision, but they have to respect that it's the woman's right to choose. It's their body and their life, even if it's the guy's sperm. They certainly can use persuasion all they want, but in that sense, I find how men feel about this issue to be largely irrelevant. Some men may be annoyed by this, but the fetus/baby doesn't become their responsibility until after it's born. As far as a female politician talking about abortion, once again, if THEY are pregnant, then being personally against abortion would mean THEY wouldn't have one. But if their daughter or sister or son's girlfriend gets pregnant -- sorry, not their choice.