Chris Floyd ties Bush and BCCI to Sibel Edmonds bombshell

[kpete]

Chris Floyd ties Bush and BCCI to Sibel Edmonds bombshell
by Inky99

Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 12:07:45 AM PST
In The Bomb in the Shadows: Proliferation, Corruption and the Way of the World, Chris Floyd takes the ball (more like a flaming bombshell) from Sibel Edmonds and runs with it.

It's an incredible read.

In case you have primary-induced amnesia (and I fear the world will), the UK's Times published an explosive story over the weekend based on an interview with translator and whistleblower Sibel Edmonds, in which she finally was able to tell a great deal of her story which the Powers That Be in the United States and the Bush administration have managed to suppress, by literally gagging her (legally speaking).

Chris Floyd describes this story as "one of the most important stories of the last quarter-century: how American officials sold nuclear arms technology to illegal proliferators -- including ideological allies of al Qaeda -- in return for bribes and other inducements. This widespread corruption has been protected from exposure by the highest levels of the U.S. government, which has gone to enormous lengths to protect the truth from coming out. The entire planet has been put at grave risk by the greed -- and geopolitical gamesmanship -- that lies behind this criminal enterprise, which actually is even more extensive, and goes back further in time, than the newspaper's remarkable revelations."

Floyd ties this story together with the history of the BCCI, past criminal figures, and the Bush family, including George W. Bush:

The Bomb in the Shadows: Proliferation, Corruption and the Way of the World
Written by Chris Floyd
Tuesday, 08 January 2008

....................

Edmonds' revelations should be seen in their larger historical context, as an outgrowth of the activities of BCCI, the "Bank of Credit and Commercial International," a supposed financial group that a U.S. Senate investigation called "one of the largest criminal enterprises in history." BCCI was a prime vehicle for clandestine nuclear proliferation, among many other illegal activities, and was also used by the CIA and the White House for various covert operations, including secret military and financial support for Saddam Hussein. It also paid numerous grandees of the Democratic and Republican parties to front its operations – and gave George W. Bush $25 million to rescue one of his many business failures. http://www.chris-floyd.com/Articles/Articles/The_Bomb_in_the_Shadows%3A_Proliferation%2C_Corruption_and_the_Way_of_the_World/

more at:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/9/25013/41212/822/433439

[Echo In Light]

1. Got it now...? The so called "war on terror" only exists in propaganda form

[truth2power]

64. Absolutely! The only terrorists we have to worry about are sitting in the WH. n/t

[defendandprotect]

79. Nothing truer ever said --- ! ! ! !

[fascisthunter]

89. What You Said

wake up!!!!

[EVDebs]

141. An archived DU post shows links to BCCI, Jackson Stephens, Bill Clinton

"...according to Evil Money by Rachel Ehrenfeld page 180:

"The BCCI debacle made ts first intrusion into the US presidential race in 1992 and may be more damaging to the Democratic presidential candidate Bill Clinton, governor of Arkansas, than his alleged extramarital affair. Clinton's fund-raiser and confidant, Jackson Stephens, a billionaire from Little Rock who owns the controlling interest of Worthen National Bank in Little Rock, was the person who introduced Bert Lance to Abedi. While Stephens might not have known back in 1977 that BCCI was a criminal bank, Bill Clinton had full knowledge of Stephen's involvement with BCCI when he accepted hundreds of thousands of dollars from the Stephens family for his campaign. On the eve of the New Hampshire primary Robert Morganthau was looking into the BCCI/Stephens/Clinton link. In December 1991 The Wall Street Journal reported that Stephens and his bank invested in Harken Energy, a small Texas investment company of which George Bush, Jr, is a board member. The money Stephens invested came through the Swiss BCCI subsidiary."


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=988337&mesg_id=990923

I wonder how much of this money in the current campaign is coming into candidates coffers via the old financial ratlines ?

[annabanana]

2. The people are still here...

But America has left the building....

[RuleOfNah]

9. Keep an eye out for CFO-like people that have or will be 'retiring'.

Given mortgage scandals, shareholder suits, and the spreading sunlight; life is becoming awkward for the people in charge of herding the money that isn't supposed to be followed.

:popcorn:

[yardwork]

72. Douglas Feith, named as one of those involved, is now in the Poli Sci dept at Duke

Feith recently invited Karl Rove to speak at Duke University. Feith also won a teaching award. His students love his courses in Political Science, where he preaches the White House story line.

[Demeter]

3. One MOre Recommendation, Folks

[rucky]

4. Done...

and there better be more where that came from.

[The Backlash Cometh]

5. Hmmm...do you suppose if Hillary becomes president and we discover

that some of this BCCI crap goes back to Clinton as well, would she be capable of making an Arthurian decision?

Of course not. I just wanted to coin the term, "Arthurian decision."

Remember, you heard it here first.

[madrchsod]

7. clinton investigate? ya right

she`ll do nothing...move on ,nothing here to see....

[Eurobabe]

11. Clinton '08? = keeping the status quo

no investigations. Shut up.

[The Backlash Cometh]

25. Well, I think we can be sure that her presidency will not be Camelot.

[defendandprotect]

112. Right . . . granted Kerry would have been better --- but the TWO selections

will be guaranteed to keep things going for the elites . . . as usual.

[Bitwit1234]

37. BULLSHIT some people carry the Hillary hating too damn far

since Obama doesn't show up to vote would he show up to the Oval Office.

[mod mom]

47. Research Clinton/Bush Financier Jackson Stephens-the link to BCCI (among otherthings)

Did you ever wonder why Clinton pardoned Marc Rich? Did he think he was innocent?

[loudsue]

54. Woah!!! I know one of Stephen's business partners, who is a benefactor of Clinton's

I didn't know about this connection.

Holy shit.

[antigop]

58. You mean the guy whose firm underwrote the initial IPO for WalMart?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/28/business/28stephens.html

Mr. Stephens was chief executive in 1970 when the firm underwrote the initial public offering for Sam Walton's discount store chain. Wal-Mart Stores is now the world's largest retailer.

[AntiFascist]

60. While we're at it...

what about Vince Foster's connections to BCCI and PROMIS?

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Barracks/1646/vfoster.html

[pingzing58]

41. She'd be assasinated like Bobby Kenedy. nt

[defendandprotect]

113. From what we can see, the forces behind the curtain are powerful ---

those are the forces we have to unmask ---

and they will pressure any president to move to their will ---

and/or dispose of them ---

[acmavm]

6. Considering some of the crap that gets 200+ recommends, this

should get at least a few.

[Divine Discontent]

147. I've rarely seen anything get that many recommends

and it's insulting to the OP of those news posts or editorials/memorials to make such a comment - again very FEW ever get 200, and those have been very powerful threads.

thanks

[enough]

8. Chris Floyd does a masterful job here,

weaving together an almost-incomprehensible number of threads from the last few decades.

[Octafish]

10. robertpaulsen, leveymg, seemslikeadream, bobthedrummer, blm, DrDebug...

...and a whole lotta DUers have chipped in, too. A lot. So I hear.

[Psyop Samurai]

14. And I'm grateful to all those mentioned...

...and to yourself and Mr. Floyd.

:patriot:

[StateSecrets]

20. K&R

http://letsibeledmondsspeak.blogspot.com/2008/01/facts.html

[antigop]

26. thanks to all. n/t

[seemslikeadream]

38. How long has this been going on?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klauAhr7xCM

How long has this been going on?
How long has this been going on?

Well if friends with their fancy persuasion
Don't admit that it's part of a scheme
Then I can't help but have my suspicions
'Cause I ain't quite as dumb as I seem.
And you said you was never intending
To break up our scene this a-way
But there ain't any use in pretending.
It could happen to us any day.

How long has this been going on?
How long has this been going on?

Oh, your friends with their fancy persuasion
Don't admit that it's part of a scheme.
But I can't help but have my suspicions
'Cause I ain't quite as dumb as I seem.
Oh, you said you was never intending
To break up our scene this a-way,
But there ain't any use in pretending.
It could happen to us any day.

And how long has this been going on?
How long has this been going on?
How long?
How long has this been going on?
How long has this been going on?
How long has this been going on?
How long?
How long has this been going on

[MrMickeysMom]

93. Those lyrics are perfect!

Geez EVERYONE knows the song.... quite a bit different seeing the lryics posed here.

[OneGrassRoot]

12. kick! n/t

[Jeroen]

13. K&R

[NewJeffCT]

15. I wonder if this news will make it to the US shores?

who knows?

[Diclotican]

19. NewJeffCT

NewJeffCT

It Will, when the news channels and paper get their act together, and their sanity... US have been on a collective madness-tripp the last 8 year, and this is just the beginning of the round up of the horrible administration of George Walker Bush jr.. This is bad, with a big B. But it is much more to come, I am afraid..


Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language

[NewJeffCT]

21. The media in the US

has been in "consolidation" mode for 25 years or so now. They're more concerned about profit than they are about the news. In depth investigative reporting is hard to find these days outside of the blogosphere because it takes time & money. If you're more concerned about profits, time & money are two things you can't afford.

[Diclotican]

29. NewJeffCT

NewJeffCT

True, and I guess that is not for the best for publication about thing that are not "In line with the people in power". Its like in the old soviet system where their had a lot of publications, but where you have to get the party line, or else...

But I still believe, when this administration, and the collective madness of the citizen of america are out their Will be a lot of information to the masses, who now just get the "truth" as some find it.. And the news about bad things, like this would be known sooner or later.. The Soviet never managed to stop bad news be coming to their public, and I Will bet that with all the technology we do have to day, the same is the case in US. You cant live in a "bubble" for all life you know..

It is good we do have the internet,and the blogosphere.. Because information Will _ALWAYS_ come true... Even in the most totally nations the news seldom is lost...

And if something is for true, US have been around a revolution before, and can go true it once more. That is something The Boyking George should be very clear about..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language

[defendandprotect]

114. I'll disagree in that if you look "profit" isn't primary . .. they're hurting themselves

to keep a right-wing msg of propaganda going ---

And, I think that's best described as corporate-media ---

They are working for the whole of savage capitalism ---

[diane in sf]

69. The corporate media in the us has the same bosses/paymasters as the top politicians

[Diclotican]

76. diane in sf

diane in sf

What a wounder full Democracy you have over there in the US, when corporate Media "Own" the politicans... It is just scary and amazing to se how a democracy have been as tuthloose as a old crocodile with no toth...

Amazing how little US have learn about what happened when it same have been happening other places.. And I fear it Will be more and more difficult to "Hear" other than "Infotainment" from US... And real news, the citizen of America to find other places, as east european was doing it before them when they had a dictatorship... They even learned to "read between the lines" in official news paper, to understand what REALLY happening around in the world...


Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language

[defendandprotect]

116. This is wonderful--!!! WELCOME . . . we need more voices like yours here --- !!!

It's always more interesting when there are people from other nations posting on a website ---
Very often, there is much to learn from them!!!

And they are rarely naive about what is going on ---!!!

[Diclotican]

132. defendandprotect

defendandprotect

Thank you Defenandprotect. It is always interesting to se what others have in their mind when you are on the internet. And it is good to know that we on the outside sometimes can learn US something

Well, we do have some experience when it come to this type of things.. And we are happy to share it to others if they just want to listen, and do the right thing;)

America is a great place (US) But lately you have evolved into something I don't believed US can be... A far less free country that it was just 10 or 15 year ago.. And that have coming into from the dark, not just after 9/11 but have been in the working for a least a decade maybe more.. All this "Patriot act" and its like, are not just popping up just months after a terrible, horrible terrorist act.. It have been packed and readied for a long time, and after this horrible act of violence and crime, it was placed into action, and now it is law of the land...

And I Will bet, before this is over, many american Will pay a high price for the freedom they so dearly had fight for and dearly had to fight for, before they was given it back.. Mr Bush have public told that the ruling thing should be that more easy, if he was the dictator... I know mr Bush are not the smartest man in this world, but coming from a STATEMAN it is directly scary...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language

[vickitulsa]

129. Diclotican ... I love getting your input!

And don't mind a bit your English -- it is quite good and we understand your meaning just fine. :)

I also agree with you that the truth cannot be kept hidden forever, that it WILL come out ... and hopefully we may even see a re-emergence of some real Justice in this country.

"Collective madness," indeed. I agree with you about that, too. There's more than that to it, because an awful lot of us have never been caught up in the sideshow of deception that the BushCo administration presents. Perhaps things just have to get bad enough to wake up the ones who have not wanted to admit the corruption could get so bad here that truly evil forces and powers (not supernatural ones either) could take over.

Please keep posting and offering us your insight as you look at us with better perspective than many of us have from within. You do us a great favor!

[Diclotican]

139. vickitulsa

vickitulsa

Thank you. I am trying my best, even that I may don't get it whole thing in English, I am better in my native language then in English, and sometimes my native language just get in the way.. But I try as best I can, to write it good, as I can it;)..

The truth, are a universal thing that NO one can hide.. The Nazism was not capable of doing it. The Soviets was not capable of it, even that they really had experience of hiding the stuff, and have allot of places to hide it too.. Russia is a BIG country even today, and as Soviet it was one of the biggest nation in the world... Surpassing US by far...

I do hope that US would wake up and smell the horse-shit as they smell it. THis regime you have today have almost ruined all what US once stand for.. US can no longer claim to have NO moral when it come to human right, international Law. Even that POW should be treated fairly and not be treated bad. Are something this regime you have, har stumbled on, and if US was to go to war against another nations, and american soldiers was to be taken prisoner.. The soldiers have to pray to the good they workship, that the enemy are treating them fairly. They cannot trust that the "other side" was to treat them after the Geneva-conventions anymore.. US are sure not treating their enemies as sutch... It is a ground, that we do have our International LAW to be followed, and with this stupidity US have shown, the whole concept of civilized warfare" have going down the drain.. Next time american soldiers are been dragged dead down some road, NO AMERICAN can claim to be "Morally outraged" about what happened.. The Pictures from Abu Girab, and other places Will follow the armed forces as long as people can find pictures of it.. Like pictures from Vietnam followed US for almost 30 year or more..

As i see it, US after 9/11 2001, just go berserk, had a nervous breakdown or some other thing that can explain why the support for a idiot like mr Bush can be that long.. The "swift boat" of patriots who was fighting american wars, like Kerry in 2004, or other, that was questing status que, and the politics of Bush, are just the sight of a public "know" that was just not there.. If a hero like Kerry, who had a lot of proven experience in the case of war, was been "swift boated" what with mr Bush, who as not in the National Guard when he should have been. And who do his best to not coming into real combat.. He may even get some experience in WAR... At least his father had the experience, and was not exactly joyfully over the concept of wrestling Kuwait from Hussein in 1990... It was the "iron-woman" Lady Thatcher who was pushing United States of America to war with Hussein. That is a little known fact in the scope of things I guess...

I guess that US have never experienced that type of regime as mr Bush and CO presents.. If you don't know, or have the experience, then it is difficult to try to fight it when you see it... That is maybe the case?.. In Austria, when the fair right leader Haider was elected chancellor, the ended in a collective political boycott of Austria, to Haider was elected out off office just 4 year later.. And the man was far from that extreme as it looks Bush are today.. But because of his politics,. and the fear that he maybe even managed to do some of the politic he was elected on, the whole country on some sort was "frozen out" of the good company in Europe.. The lesson from a another austrian, the former Corporal, Adolf Hitler was that you just don't let this type of people into power, regardless of their promise of "democracy".. And US have not that leasson... And maybe have to learn the hard way, that this type of politic, and governance is bad, really, really bad....

But I DO hope you are in the "wakening up stage" and will trow this regime of their shoulders.. And in the next year or 4 Will fight back all the law that this regime have given you.. Rebuild your amazing sense of decency, democracy and freedom who once was the hallmark of all democracy.. If it was for YOUR sense of democracy, we may even today be cough in the web of a nazist dominated europe, with a war with soviet, and thousands of innocent civilians dead.. UK may even just have to fight from Canada, because UK was occupied.. The whole continent of Europe, may had a whole another chapter, if it was not from the bulldog fighting from the UK, and the material support from US... You have the DUTY to fight for your democracy, and you have the DUTY to fight for what you keep dear, for the rest of the world, but also for you self.. And for your children
Dam it. You fight of the british, because they want to impose some extra taxes on the colonies, and was not given you your rightfully repetition in the Parliament.. Why in the lords name are you not out and fight the evil of this Administration, when you fight down the British over some tax issue????

This type of regime, that mr Bush try to impose on the american public is evil, just evil. Not the supernational type of evil, but just ordinary human evil.. And should be fighter down as they are.. And most important. This type of extremist must be fighted down with LAW... AND BY TRIALS.. If the german have not been given their Nuremberg trial, and the other trial, they would never ha accepted WHAT happened when Hitler was their Fuhrer and Chancellor..

And that it is important when the criminals in this Administration are to be hold responsible.. Not just trow them in the gallows, but follow the law of the land. And give them right to tell why they do as their do.. A criminal court, for the americans, by the american for the american are the most important thing to do
And teach the next generation that THIS MUST NEVER HAPPENED AGAIN... NEVER

It is always more easy to "se" what is happening from the outside then from the inside.. I Will bet you would fine some errors in Europe, that may do damage to us, that I just doesn't se, because it to close to home.
I Will be for a long time, as long as my health and my computer are willing to work;). My pc is by the way new, so I guess I Will be here for a Long time;).. Perspective is everything one vise man say it once:

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language

[RuleOfNah]

145. Your Ameringlish is perfect!

I do hope that US would wake up and smell the horse-shit as they smell it.

I could not have said it better myself. :patriot:

[Diclotican]

146. RuleOfNah

RuleOfNah

;) In Norwegian it Will be some like this "de burde vokne opp, og kjenne hestemøkka som den er",

But thank you for it anyway.. Americans have lot of good expressions when it come to this type of things... ;)..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language

[vickitulsa]

148. Wonderful essay, great perspective! Thank you!

Not only is your English plenty good enough to understand, Diclotican, there is something about having basic truths or "common knowledge" explained by someone for whom English is NOT their native tongue that often makes it even clearer to us.

For instance, my ex-husband and I sort of "adopted" many years ago a young Czech man who had escaped from Prague in 1978. He remembered as a child watching from his 7th story apartment balcony as the Soviet troops rolled into Prague streets.

When he made it to Germany at the age of 19, people there told him, "Go to America! America is best for opportunity!"

So he came here, and he found the opportunities but he could not handle the pressures and some of the craziness here. His childhood had been very rough, with a seriously abusive father, so he was not stable anyway.

He ended up committing suicide at only 24, and it was the insane American police/court/jail system that drove him over the edge when he was arrested for a very minor crime.

But before he died, I learned so much from Petr, from how he saw my country and people here.

Petr's grammatical efforts and struggles to find the right way to phrase things often caused him to express himself in ways that got your attention because they rang so very true to anyone's ears!

For example, when Dave and I were arguing, Petr would stop us and ask, simply, "Who is guilty onto this?" His preposition was wrong but it somehow made his point even more clear, you see? Once when he asked us this, we both answered at the same time: "I am!" And we all laughed together.

My favorite quote from Petr was what he said about child abuse. He simply could not understand why any adult would do harm to their own (or any) child, and he knew from his own life how such treatment damaged the child and could cause a youngster to turn bad. He said, "Every little baby is born ready to be good."

Is that so true or what?

Yes, America was once held in high esteem around the world so much more than she can be now, after eight years of "Mr. Boosh." I think you're right, that since we haven't had anything so extreme before, we will simply have to learn how to fight it, to get our country back. I find myself hoping that the world can understand and be patient with us as we engage in this fight. I'm always thinking, "I hope they understand that most Americans do NOT approve of what our government is doing! We are at this point helpless to stop them!"

But we must not remain helpless -- we MUST stop them!

I remember studying some history of World War II, when America kept German POW's in facilities here; and those soldiers were treated SO WELL that many of them immigrated here after the war! The U.S. was well known for such proper and humane treatment of even our enemies' troops. Now it has become just the opposite, as you point out, and that is just a terrible drop in respect we have earned now. The Nazis tried hard to surrender to Americans instead of Russians because they knew they would be treated better by the U.S. victors. Now others would dread to be taken by the United States!


I am saving this post of yours, Diclotican, as it expresses so well an overview of our current condition here in America that we need to remember. If you don't mind, I would like to share it with some other friends who are not at DU -- is that okay?

Glad to hear you have a new computer, so you will be with us here a long time! :)

Vicki, in Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
(I hope I will be proud to say that again someday)

[Diclotican]

150. vickitulsa

vickitulsa

Maybe "basic knowledge" and some sane mind is important when it come tho what is what?.. Home was a home of common knowledge, and it maybe coming down to me to;) And is it something the world need today, it is common knowledge, and some sane minds...

When you had seen foreign troops invading your country, and see the same troopers marsh down the road, you get something in you that you never want to experience one More time.. And Tsjekkoslovakia in the 1970s was not a free place on earth.. Rather the opposite.. But 10 year later, it was free at least, and are today one of the more stable democracy in EUrope.. Even that Tsjekkia and Slovakia parted away. At Peace with its other, and even that it was a "divorce" it was a amazing peacefully divorce where they just get along, as long they was parted... The 1990s was a place of great turmoil in Europe, but it was also a place of hope, and prospect of a better future somehow... I still remember well when the Berlin wall was falling, I was in 6-7 grade when it happened.. And I still get shivers down my spine when I see it on TV...

Once in Time US was been seen as the great opportunity for people who want a Chance to "do it". And even i was thinning about emigrate to US once.. But at some point I just was to scared to emigrate.. I may find the "air" for emigration to be bad, or I was just lucky;). I don't know, but after Clinton, and the early start of GWB I was glad I was not emigration to US...
For many in the east european nation US was a place of hope. And many I know from the east was bound for emigrating to US, and to live the "american dream" and many strike it to, when come to US...

But as Petr experienced US can be a very different place to be, when you come from the outside.. I am still puzzled by on the one hand your openness, and the "get go" attitude. On the other hand the more scary part is that many have this arrogance who are doing more damage than anything more.. And your cort system is just behind my puzzling if I may say it... Tree strikes, and you are in for life... Even when it was a very Small crime.. I can understand that it when it come to the higher crimes, with violence and death, but for pic poking, or smaller offenses I do have some problem with life prison.. This is a system who just make thing injust..

Petr have it absolutely right, when it come to the truth, when it come to that all children er born to be good.. That is a truth that werry often are falling for deaf ear when it come to the grown up... Child abuse are something I cant understand either.. And I know more about this than I want to tell... I to have some scar about this a I guess I was lucy one who was getting help, and was placed with my little brother in a foster home, where my foster parents was kind to us.. After all they have 5 kids on their own, and with us it was 7... And everyone of us have grown up to honest people who are not criminal and not to bad.. So I guess they have been doing some good then;)..

It is just amazing to se how low the US have been in esteem after 8 year with Bush. It is just criminal to se that he may get free, because nobody dear to tell the Emperor that he had no cloth at all.. Mr Bush are very dangerous, as many here have pointed out before, because he have a "ferniss" of "nice man" over him.. Mr Chenney is a more direct, more dangerous man, because his thoughs is just so clear to everyone who want to read him.. Mr Bush just looks like a clown, and act as one too I guess...
The other day, when he was standing by the prime minister of Israel, i just seeing him and wonder, WHY in the world, have this man, who are this "stupid small on his face possible be the president of USA"... It just stuck my as surprising that this man can be president of everything, and then even of USA... How the great one have fallen from the hight.. Amazing, just amazing... And you I Will bet that many others, who are not friends of US nave noticed that too...

Americans have to fight to get their country back from this type of regime. It Will ba a hard fight, because this type of regime are never easy tron over.. But I do hope, and pray for that the american have the "spirit of 1776" yet in their soul, somewhere and are not totally corrupted by the gossip about the latest from the camp of the Speers or other gossip that are just pollution the atmosphere.. I do hope that the US I once know, can wake up, and start to rebuild what is destroyed, and not just physical, but also on other fronts.. We need a peacefully, powerfully friend, and US can be that friend.. But US have to act as the friend she once was...
I know that many american are afraid, and don't want this regime to exist for many year to tome.. And I know that many are not approving what is happening and Will do what it takes to stop it, end it once and for all;). But as in Germany in the 1930s, you are almost helpless.. Because the Nazis was the LAW, and the same is the case with mr Bush.. He is the LAW, as long as it last.. And I am afraid it Will be a painfully, hard time to americans to wake up from the innocence they was growing into for the last 232 year..
In some prospect I must thing about US as a Innocent little children,who are never learned that the world is a bad blace, with many bad pepole..And have to be told that not everyone are nice and good...

Me to, have studied my history, I believe it are because of my foster fathers interest in the subject too.. And WW2 have in some way always interested my, even that I know that MUTCH about the war, I really don't know a lot of.. But it is a fact that in WW2, your P0W specially the germans was treated fairy well.. Much better than they may deserved, because Germany was not treating their POWs so well.. Specially in the east, where more than 3 million russian soldiers was dead between 1941-45. Not surprising then, that for the most part the germans was fleeing for their life, to be taken prisoner of war with the west-allied forces, the future was far better there, than in the east, where you can find yourself taken to Siberia or something like that.. When Stalingrad was fallen, almost 900.000 german and their allied forces was been POWs.. In 1955, just 5000 germans was coming back to East Germany.. The rest was dead, or was still prisoner in Soviet...

Today, with Abeu Girab, The prison in Cuba and other places I really doubt that anyone would like to be taken into prison by the american.. Many believe it is better to die, than to be taken prisoner, specially when you can be send to places where you are tortured, and maybe even murdered. Not few Afghans, and Iraqis have been killed by their captures, and their relatives is told not to open what they are coming in.. The truth about violence in american prisoner camps are there, they are just not been told yet. Or a least not to civilians.. Even the SS inside their own, was telling histories about their treatment of prisoner, it is just human to tel to other..

You are welcome to share it. It may be, that american is to know, that we on the outside are not HATING USA, but we miss what US once was standing for.. We miss the OLD USA, where the LAW was followed, and where criminal President was trown out.. Or maybe even in prison.. Mr Nixon was out of office just in nick of time.. If he had not re signet, he would have ended in prison... And then the media have the "GUTS" to tell the truth - not anymore.. You have to go to foreign newspaper to get the truth, inside US...

Just share it with friends on DU, or otherwise;)..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language

[defendandprotect]

115. YES--!!! Yet not understood here. Start a separate thread on that . . . Please!

[Richard Steele]

16. K&R

[bonito]

17. K&R

[paparush]

18. Extreme Greed + Extreme Religious Beliefs (Appocolypse)

Lets profit while we set up the End Times.

[jwirr]

44. And in the name of democracy and the church they will destroy both. nt

[Oilwellian]

22. Wow, just wow!

Chris Floyd did a masterful job of tying everything together. This is a keeper. K&R

[antigop]

23. So this is the way the world works....

This is the way the world works. Behind the glitz and gossip of presidential campaigns, behind all the earnest "policy debates" on Capitol Hill, behind all the "position papers" and "vision statements" of think tanks and political parties, behind all the great panoply of state and our august Establishment institutions, thieves and murderers have their way, in league with the great and good.

Anyone who ascends to national power has to make a deal with the devil: either directly to plunge their hands into filth and blood, or else swaddle themselves in "plausible deniability," looking away from the grubby details but knowing full well that their minions, agents and backers are doing "whatever it takes" to keep the machine of power and money rolling on.

This doesn't mean that leaders can't also try to do good things as well, and occasionally accomplish them. After all, Al Capone was famous for his acts of benevolence. Indeed, some leaders pursue idealistic or ameliorative policies in order to "justify" the crimes and lies that sustain the system which has raised them on high. But the devil will have his due, and the price of power must always be paid – and it is ordinary people, especially the most innocent and vulnerable among us, who always end up paying it.

So, tell me again, if there's really a difference between the two parties...

[Imagevision]

66. K&R> bigtime!

[moodforaday]

74. Indira Singh, a PTECH/PROMIS whistleblower

once said in an interview, asked why one of the parties won't expose the other party's dirty doings, said (as she had been told by her own bosses at JP Morgan) that "at that level, the parties work together".

Quoting from memory, but the message was exactly such.

[defendandprotect]

117. NO--!!! There isn't . . . but that takes us into conversations which are taboo here . . . !!!

[riderinthestorm]

24. Too important to disappear into election fever. K&R! nt

[mmonk]

27. "Error: You've already recommended that thread."

[Mrs. Overall]

28. K&R

[Javaman]

30. Fine, whatever...

tell me now what is going to be done about it? Honestly, who in our government is going to bring to the front, especially during an election season, the case for impeachment.

No one, that's who.

It's done. moron* will have his library of secrets that no one will be allowed to view. And he* will crayon out his "memoirs" ghosted by Tom Clancy.
Then go on to make money telling even more lies on the lecture circuit.

We will all know he's a sham, but no one except the few that will be labeled by the MSM as fringe holdout zealots, will do any protesting.

The rest of us will just be pissed off because nothing has happened, have less faith in our elected leaders and go on with a much more cynical approach to our government.

With each misstep, with each moment people aren't held accountable, our nation, our government, our way of life decays that much more.

George is just the first of many more to come. We have had a seismic shift in our nation.

Until a pitch fork and torches day comes, nothing will change.

[Jackpine Radical]

31. The surest way to ensure that nothing happens

is to give in to despair.

[Javaman]

32. I despair over America's apathetical approach to everything.

When our leaders don't stand up, we should, but alas, no one has.

When they show they don't care, nor listen to us, we the people should hold them accountable, but we don't.

And when I say "we" I don't mean DU.

[bigmonkey]

53. Yet you promote apathy.

Your attitude and your tone encourage most people to give up. On a board such as this it doesn't matter if you personally haven't given up, or if your way of presenting the situation may motivate some small number of people. In the content and form of your communication you are actively bringing about the situation you say you deplore.

And don't say I'm trying to suppress your free speech. You can say anything, but you need to accept the effects of what you do say and how you say it.

(edit spelling)

[Javaman]

55. Oh I give up...

:rofl:

[RuleOfNah]

81. Withdrawing in disgust is not the same as apathy.

I understand your statements against apathy. I take issue with a different flavor, complacency. Just because something is polite, or 'positive', does not mean it is effective. Take cars; is promoting fuel efficiency really the answer? Why not question driving itself? Too impolite? Too extreme? Makes too many people part of the problem instead of part of the solution?

Javaman seems to be fed up, and is issuing a challenge, a call to action. It is our role to point out the feeble innocence of a pitch fork solution and to describe, or create, workable solutions in response to that challenge.

Ask not what corruption your government representatives can repair for you but what repair you can do for your corrupt government representatives.

[bigmonkey]

108. I agree, I'm not in favor of complacency either.

What I'm taking issue with is the form of the "challenge." Certainly for some, probably for Javaman, the type of statement he's making is stimulative - it goads some people into taking action, into proving they aren't apathetic. What I'm objecting to is the assumption he's making: that this method is the best way to do that, and when it reaches its limits in effectiveness then they simply need to say the same kind of thing more frequently and more urgently.

The problem is that for those who are not stimulated by this kind of portrayal it serves as a real discouragement. Increasing the frequency and intensity just causes, among those who aren't so stimulated, a depressing effect. If I'm reading Javaman's intentions correctly, I'm seeing that Javaman's appeal to human nature is causing the opposite effect from what he intends in a lot of people. I contend that the number of folks who respond positively to an appeal like his is much smaller than the number who react with discouragement, but of course there are no real figures either way. The content of Javaman's cry is designed to motivate by negative example, but I'll simply say for many people its form reinforces an atmosphere of despair.

I'm reminded of that quote from Adlai Stevenson, when the woman in the crowd told him all thinking Americans were with him, and he responded "That's not enough, madam, we need a majority!" I understand Javaman's cry, but I'm suggesting that most of those who would be encouraged in that way have already responded.

It's time to move to the next task of motivating others who don't respond to that. In the current circumstance, I see a hidden complacency in a post like Javaman's, where simply pointing out the negative consequences of continued trends substitutes for a more engaged analysis of what would be the most effective contemporary way of encouraging a progressive future. I like to wonder, for instance, what would the political atmosphere be like if progressives could expect support from others in positive assertion? How would that conversation go? Is there any portion of that scenario that we can enact now?

[RuleOfNah]

130. "no real figures either way"

The heaping pile of regime crimes seems to indicate that both approaches have failed to counter excessive gangsterisms.

What I take issue with is the implicit assumption that only the sensitive should be catered to in political discourse. However, I believe the core problem is the software, not the users but that is a topic best discussed during a more livable economy.

Perhaps the only purpose remaining for this digression is to kick the parent article? ;)

[bigmonkey]

153. Just one more thing, I agree that the sensitive should not control the conversation.

I'm not objecting to a cry like Javaman's in principle, but rather saying that now, when that cry has had whatever effect it can have, it may be time to drop it. Obviously neither polyanna-ism nor Javaman's technique have won the day. I can see how you might think that I'm promoting happy talk, but that's really, really not me or my intention. Let's have that other software discussion in a more livable day.

[jwirr]

46. But that is hard to avoid. I tried to read John Kerry's book "The New

War" and it scared me so much that I set it aside and it is still setting there. I do not know how you overcome such evil.

[Diclotican]

96. jwirr

jwirr

This type of evil are never easy overcome, but it must be done... This regime that Bush have been the President over have allmoust destroyed the whole thing US once was all about.. I dont know how you in US can find a way to fight it, but it have to be don, by the american public. Nothing we can do from our shores, can fight this evil - as you can in your own country.. What we can do, is to try to get the information across, and use our newspaper to tell the truth. Even that it may hurt that news are coming from our side, of the ocean..

America must be free, free from this type of regime.. It is similar to what US was doing after Pearl Habour in 1941, where you was fighting in Europe for 4 year, to fight the evil of nazism... And you too use the INFORMATION you was sending to the occupied nations in Europe, as a tool to tell the truth about nazi-propaganda.. We can do the same to you, fight the lie, fight the evil from outside. Sooner he propaganda what is coming out from your "Media" would be fighted down, becouse for the most part the public wil not use tha irwave, or read the online paper to get the information they want.. As in Germany and later in the Eeast European nations was lisning in to Radio Free europe, for the latest innformation - in the peril of being arrested and send to prison for a long time for information about the world outside the iron curtin..

Today we have other ways to fight this type of evil. We dont need to trust our life in short wawe radio, who may be intererupted, and get arrested. We can use internet, where We want it, when we want it, and it is just so mutch more dificult for the goverment to stop us from getting innformation we are not "doing to get"... Even with all the misuse of innformation, the truth about this regime is coming out, slowly but it is coming. And even that it wil take a looong time for the most right wing nuts to get it, they too wil get it, sooner.. or later...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

[jwirr]

102. Thank you for the encouragement. I am afraid but it is in my nature

to be a fighter mostly because I have children whom I love. They must be defended.

[Diclotican]

104. jwirr

jwirr

They who have children, are the best fighters, they know what are at stake.. And US have allot of stake... Everyone who have children and something to fight for should do it... Because CHILDREN need all the need they can get, to have a future at all.. With the regime of Fascism, they may not have a bright future...

I bet that the fundings fathers of your country Will cry loud and clear of they know what some american are up to, in the hunt for "executive power":..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language

[defendandprotect]

118. Absolutely . . . you have to keep fighting!! But, NH discouraged a lot of people . . .wrongly!!!

[femrap]

33. k and r

hope this gets some traction!

[pberq]

34. Kick, recommended and bookmarked!

We should also mention the great work lukery has done on the Sibel Edmonds story.

to repeat the link posted upthread:

http://letsibeledmondsspeak.blogspot.com/2008/01/facts.html

The Sibel Edmonds case demonstrates the failure of the corporate media in the US. It is readily apparent that we need to rely on alternative media, the blogs, and foreign media to move this story forward, with solid, fact-based reporting.

In the last 12 months, we have had tremendous support in getting exposure to the story and filling in many of the unknowns. In particular, I'd like to thank Mike Mejia, Brad Friedman, Scott Horton, Mizgin, and Mark Levey for their countless contributions. The Daily Kos and Democratic Underground communities have also been terrific with their support. Sibel asked me to pass on her thanks, saying "The support in the last 12 months has been fantastic, and has enabled us to get the story where it is today. Thank you."

The latest article in the Sunday Times details how a criminal network has been procuring and proliferating nuclear technology to the highest bidder; nation states as well as non-state terrorist groups. This dangerous network includes people at the highest levels of the US government, and their activities are being actively covered up by the executive, congress, the judiciary and the media. . .

[mmonk]

lukery's site can't be posted too much. It's one stop shopping

for everything concerning the Edmonds case. He's done great and tireless work.

[loudsue]

56. Lukery is a hero as well. He has been the Paul Revere here.

Sibel & Lukery are truly American heros.

[AlertLurker]

35. Considering BCCI is long forgotten by the US M$M and...

Sibel Edmonds' story has not as yet and will probably never hit the US M$M...

In the immortal words of DiDi and GoGo:

"Nothing to be done."

[defendandprotect]

119. Re BCCI . . . is there no successor bank that we know of---???

Of course, the CIA and the corrupt in the world must somewhere have a new bank?

[AntiFascist]

125. Good question...

I would recommend "Forbidden Truth: US-Taliban Secret Oil Diplomacy and the Failed Hunt for Bin Ladin". It has several interesting charts showing Saudi, bin Ladin, and BCCI money connections. Many lead to Swiss banks. It seems a little complicated, with BCCI fanning out in 9 directions.

[W T F]

36. It's all now beginning to make sense

Valerie Plame was not outed primarily because they wanted get Joe Wilson. It was done primarily because, They wanted to bring down the operation that she worked for that tracked the movement of nuclear material because they knew that it would expose and confirm what Sibel Edmunds was saying all along.

This administration wants war with Iran so badly it was willing to sell them the material necessary to build a nuclear bomb covertly and then, claim that because they had nuclear weapons, it was justification to go and invade them.

[formercia]

39. Like setting up a dope sting

Get the mark to buy some dope, then bust them. Same trick, different pony.

[windoe]

40. K & R--Keep the spotlights ON the corruption

-secrecy is their biggest power.

[Cronopio]

42. Seen the movie "Shane"?

"Go ahead ... pick it up."

[defendandprotect]

120. Valerie Plame may not have understood all that she knew --- with the missing piece of the puzzle

being Sibel Edmonds' information --- ???

[burythehatchet]

43. And the silence from John Kerry is deafening. What the hell man?

His single greatest contribution and yet he is absent. I wish I knoew why.

[99th_Monkey]

45. Skull & Bones comes to mind. At some point he sold out to the Devil. nt

[defendandprotect]

121. Kerry did what he was supposed to do. . . let Bush win . . . but if it didn't happen . ..

he would have been their "lesser evil" ---

that's the way it's set up ---

and as far as I can see, Hillary is their "lesser evil" this time around ---

and they'll do everything they can to stop Edwards ----

[99th_Monkey]

152. check out these numbers: Diebold scanners v. hand-counted ballots

The Diebold optical scanners did the trick for Hillary, the Dem Nomine-of-Necon-choice.

Hillary Clinton, Diebold Accuvote optical scan: 39.618%
Clinton, Hand Counted Paper Ballots: 34.908%

Barack Obama, Diebold Accuvote optical scan: 36.309%
Obama, Hand Counted Paper Ballots: 38.617%

http://www.legitgov.org/nh_machine_vs_paper.html


If you are wondering as to the motive of why the Rethug-owned Diebold Corp. would want Hillary to "win", look no further than this:
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_steven_l_080108...

[mod mom]

49. Here's a good article on Kerry's determination on BCCI:

Second, the BCCI affair showed Kerry to be a politician driven by a sense of mission, rather than expediency--even when it meant ruffling feathers. Perhaps Sen. Hank Brown, the ranking Republican on Kerry's subcommittee, put it best. "John Kerry was willing to spearhead this difficult investigation," Brown said. "Because many important members of his own party were involved in this scandal, it was a distasteful subject for other committee and subcommittee chairmen to investigate. They did not. John Kerry did."

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0409.sirota.html

[mod mom]

50. and why Kerry would have made an EXCELLENT president (but certain powers

just couldn't allow it-the 2 preceding paragraphs:)

As the presidential campaign enters its final stretch, Kerry's BCCI experience is important for two reasons. First, it reveals Kerry's foresight in fighting terrorism that is critical for any president in this age of asymmetrical threats. As The Washington Post noted, "years before money laundering became a centerpiece of antiterrorist efforts...Kerry crusaded for controls on global money laundering in the name of national security."

Make no mistake about it, BCCI would have been a player. A decade after Kerry helped shut the bank down, the CIA discovered Osama bin Laden was among those with accounts at the bank. A French intelligence report obtained by The Washington Post in 2002 identified dozens of companies and individuals who were involved with BCCI and were found to be dealing with bin Laden after the bank collapsed, and that the financial network operated by bin Laden today "is similar to the network put in place in the 1980s by BCCI." As one senior U.S. investigator said in 2002, "BCCI was the mother and father of terrorist financing operations."

WE NEED A PRESIDENT WILLING TO FIGHT THIS LEVEL OF INVOLVEMENT-NOT SWEEP IT UNDER THE RUG LIKE WHAT WAS DONE IN THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION!

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

77. John Kerry?

WE NEED A PRESIDENT WILLING TO FIGHT THIS LEVEL OF INVOLVEMENT-NOT SWEEP IT UNDER THE RUG LIKE WHAT WAS DONE IN THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION!

Where was his fight handing Ohio over to Bush?

[burythehatchet]

51. Because many important members of his own party were involved in this scandal,

That's really that needs to be known, I suppose.

[AnnieBW]

83. I would bet that they threatened someone in his family

if he talked. If not his daughters, then possibly Mama T herself. Same reason that McAuliffe pressured Kerry to back down in 2004. Someone got to him.

[defendandprotect]

122. It's also a power play; one individual, one committee doesn't have the power necessary ---

even if Kerry were willing to totally open the issue ---

[pokercat999]

86. From the article

"The amnesia surrounding BCCI is even more remarkable when you consider that the man who led the 1992 probe – which turned up so much dirt involving the first Bush administration – was none other than Senator John Kerry. Yet Kerry – who knew where so many Bush bones were buried, and who had once displayed genuine moral courage in denouncing the Vietnam War after his service there – used none of this knowledge, and showed none of this courage, when seeking to oust the second Bush Administration, which retained many tainted figures from the first reign, and was headed by a man who had taken millions of dollars from BCCI. Instead Kerry spent the campaign – as he had spent much of his Senate career – trying to prove to the corporate and militarist elite that he was a "safe pair of hands," someone who wouldn't really rock the boat or kill the elite's flock of golden geese. Having thus disarmed himself, he failed to generate the landslide he would have needed to overcome the Bush Faction's election-skewing machinery – although it is very likely that Kerry would have won the election anyway had Ohio's votes been counted fairly. But here too he folded and refused to fight, choosing, like Al Gore before him, not to risk his insider status with a serious, genuine challenge to the system."

It's always about the politician....even from the beginning founding fathers. Smart people say "Screw it...I'm going to get mine" Good people live on the scraps.

[burythehatchet]

151. and people why apathy is so prevasive.

[donkeyotay]

48. You didn't have to delve too deeply into W's political life to know

that he has always been a receptacle for graft. All I read was "Shrub" by Molly Ivins. The AWOL story was stuffed while Rathers was made an example. The media studiously ignored Bush's incredible history of failed businesses and questionable bailouts - even his insider trading -while they went after Gore for sighing, wearing the wrong color suits, being wooden, not being likable, ie., someone you'd like to have a beer with while they wrecked your country... Bush was someone to restore dignity and honor, a likable, trustable, one-of-us - in unspun terms, a complete fraud.

It's big. It's very big, and we have no choice but to try and fix it. Lots of people put different dates on what "it" is, but it didn't just happen, it's not just George W. Bush, and it's not going away by itself.

[lovuian]

52. Everything is connected

and follow the money

[Truth2Tell]

57. Chris Floyd's site seems to be down. ??

anyone else having trouble with the link?

[Amonester]

61. No trouble accessing it here.

K&R

AND

FLYERS EVERYWHERE

[Truth2Tell]

65. working for me now. ahhhwell. nt

[EVDebs]

144. See post 141 nt

[AntiFascist]

59. K&R ! This cannot be recommended highly enough n/t

[ringtailtooter]

62. I emailed McClatchy Newspaper's Washington Bureau this morning

to the attention of News Tips Editor with a question as to why they are not covering the Sibel Edmond's story from Sunday's Times. I have not gotten an answer as of yet. Looks like they are suppressed as well. I hope somehow a US media outlet can break open the story.

By the way, I had no problem linking into Chris Floyd's site. Great article, a keeper.

[mmonk]

67. I know someone at their Washington desk.

I emailed her a link to the UK story and the follow up by Haaretz.

[ringtailtooter]

68. Great, Thanks.

[Jack Bone]

63. 99th Rec...can we get 1 more?

[yardwork]

70. This is why John Kerry was swift-boated and the 2004 election stolen from him.

Senator John Kerry investigated BCCI. The crooks knew that if he became president, he would blow the lid off their operation.

[anamandujano]

75. doubt it

If he were going to do anything about it, why did he concede without a fight. He had a war chest and a lot of evidence. Just asking.

[SpiralHawk]

71. Wake up America

The K and the R

[malaise]

73. K & R

This needs to stay on top.

[emmadoggy]

78. This whole thing is so mind-blowing. K & R.

:nuke:

[alfredo]

80. K&R

[Swamp Rat]

82. "So what?"

[Lugnut]

84. K&R

This is too important to let it sink.

[lukery]

85. Sibel is a DUer

Sibel wants to thanks all of you for her efforts and support.

She'll be dropping in here
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2644525
shortly to say 'thanks'

Her screenname is StateSecrets, appropriately!

[fascisthunter]

87. !

[lukery]

88. 8pm Eastern

Sibel will be online here at DU in 45 mins.

In this thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2644525

[MasonJar]

90. I am constantly trying to figure out why DUers hate Hillary Clinton as much, if not

more, than the GOPers. It makes no sense. Hillary is moderate to liberal; she is at least as liberal as Obama. She has dedicated much of her life to children's issues and she tried to help everyone get health insurance. The GOPers smeared her for it as they did everything Clintonian. No one could have gotten the health issue through the Pugs' vitriol. Actually the ever-so-religious (sounding) GOPers have manipulated and stereotyped and brainwashed a whole generation of voters in Clinton-hatred. It is a shame that the well-oiled machine of Reagan-Bushes has penetrated the hearts of faithful dems too...a shame and disgusting!

[Kurovski]

91. Kick. Did you post in the wrong thread?

:-) :kick:

[AntiFascist]

106. Have you considered the possibility that...

the right-wing smear machine wanted to turn something into a personal Clinton story of corruption rather than expose a much deeper story of government corruption stemming from the Reagan/Bush administration? Frankly, I believe it was so important for them to do this that they even hired Monica Lewinsky to do what she did.

[lonestarnot]

92. Ewww can't wait to be done with dinner!

:applause:

[mother earth]

94. So it's all starting to come out...finally...this is incredible & it's

just the tip of the iceberg. If they are capable of this, there's nothing they won't do, and this is just part of the big picture. WOW.

[bluesmail]

95. Hugh Kick

Recommend, and thanks to the many others, including those octafish mentioned. Julie

[Major Hogwash]

97. Great article!

And this is why Bush is so eager beaver to get a war with Iran started.

Somebody keep Bush away from pushing the button.

[Bennyboy]

98. Excellent...K&R!

[PuraVidaDreamin]

99. I try to tell this story to anyone who will listen but it's so complicated, and convoluted

Where can I find a simplified explanation of all this so I can be better
armed in explaining such evil deception?

Thanks to anyone who can help

[lala_rawraw]

100. God I love Floyd... he is one of the few people I look forward

to reading on a regular basis.

[PufPuf23]

101. Link to Kerry Report on BCCI

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/

[DemoTex]

103. Post above says Sibel is a DUer: SO IS CHRIS FLOYD!

I think Chris is from Tennessee and I think he might have gone to Vanderbildt. I have QSO'd (ham radio jargon for a chat) with Chris on DU when he was at The Moscow Times. If Chris Floyd writes that Martians just invaded Washington, DC, then look for the saucers because they are there! Chris is the best there is. Period.

[santamargarita]

105. They will blame Bill Clinton

If this story gets any coverage in the US, these bastards will spin it to blame Clinton and try to use it against Hillary. Watch...

[ursi]

107. wow, even connects to the BCCI!

Didn't John Kerry go after them at one time?

[Hissyspit]

140. Yes, ONE of his major accomplishments.

You can do a Google or check Wikipedia to find out more - sorry, I'm being lazy right now.

Belated welcome to DU. :toast: :patriot:

[defendandprotect]

109. For all we know, George has given the Saudis an atomic bomb--!!!

What do we think the price might have been?

[lala_rawraw]

111. hey, you can't put a price

on the war on terra... it is for national insecurity after all;)

[defendandprotect]

123. And that's the nobel cause of the "Drug War," as well, evidently!!!

Money for good causes --- !!!

Iran/Contra --- !!!

Private armies ---

[lala_rawraw]

131. Yup..

The Contras, the Pinochet rats, the Gray Wolves, the Mujahadeen, Muslim Brotherhood... you have to wonder how all of these "national security" hangers on were supposed to make a living with the fall of the Soviets? Perhaps they needed a terra war to go fight...thank god Osama is now in custody;)

[defendandprotect]

135. Keep posting it . . . !!!

[lala_rawraw]

138. which part you like?

:D

[defendandprotect]

142. Well . . .

Im pretty clear on Iran/Contra though I didn't watch the hearings ---
however, some of the cover-up maybe?

Just read in Noami Klein's "Shock Doctrine" that Milton Friedman was an ADVISOR to Pinochet!!!
Didn't know that ---

Gray Wolves?

Got the Mjahadeen --- Brz . . . we went in 6 months before Soviets . . . etal

Muslim brotherhood?

What do you think about Chechyna . . . did we send Al Qaeda in there?

How about Israel --- Nixon armed right-wing religously fanatical Israel ---
So -- is it now our Israel?

Any hope that we'll ever bring all of this into the open?









. Yup..
The Contras, the Pinochet rats, the Gray Wolves, the Mujahadeen, Muslim Brotherhood... you have to wonder how all of these "national security" hangers on were supposed to make a living with the fall of the Soviets? Perhaps they needed a terra war to go fight...thank god Osama is now in custody

[lala_rawraw]

149. well, it is in the open... we know about it...

the question is, will this ever become more open... don't know:(

[defendandprotect]

124. We should also check Cheney's basement --- !!!

[mother earth]

134. Incredible, isn't it? Homeland security is such a flippin joke!

[defendandprotect]

136. ...but WOW . . . what a money-maker . . . !!!

[Orwellian_Ghost]

110. K&R n/t

[youngharry]

126. Chris Floyd Article

Tried printing your story on Chris Loyd---everything came out blank. Tried printing Kos's article, but it also came out blank. Someone is interfering with communications here and trying to make sure this story doesn't get wide circulation.

[scarletwoman]

127. k&r (nt)

[lala_rawraw]

128. I just finished the whole read... and I find

the Kissinger connection - that is, as a bridge from BCCI to Bush II really well nailed down.

[mother earth]

133. I don't understand how Clinton can have any support after this.

There is a clear and direct tie to this via the

http://www.chris-floyd.com/Articles/Articles/The_Bomb_i... /

-- "long-time Bush family contributor Jackson Stephens - who, curiously enough was also a major paymaster for Bill Clinton's political rise. In fact, in 1992, Stephens was the largest individaul contributor to both Bush I and Clinton in their presidential contest."--

Come on, tell me I'm wrong. Tell me that the Bush dynasty and the Clinton dynasty are NOT part of the same machine undermining democracy, and if all of this is true, blatantly criminal. There's a damned good reason to end this stranglehold!

It's no wonder we can't seem to get impeachment on the table, why crimes of the highest order are invisible to MSM, why MSM is owned by a few, so they don't lose control of the peasants. They want everyone to be stupidly complacent. They've pretty much got that now. They are the masters & we are the slaves, plugging away, struggling to make ends meet.

That's just one point. This is incredible reading! This needs to be passed on to those sweet political pundits weighing in on this election, every last one of them, this needs to be asked of every Congressman, Senator, etc. Where are you on this story? What do you have to say?

Wow, this is what happens before the fall of the empire.

[defendandprotect]

137. I'm anti-Clinton/DLC anyway . . . these connections most have been well

understood by journalists, media in general, DC . . .
and we're just putting the pieces together now --- !!!

[ClayZ]

143. (gulp) K and R

:hide: