HUGE !! move in S&P Futures in 1 minute. Nearly 100 points. Will we now Crash or Blast-off ????

[masmdu]

Never seen such a huge move in such a short time. Clearing out all the stops (30 points above the market and 60 points below...now back to even/closing levels). We are already at support of Long Term trend lines and very large moves can be expected here (down if we break support and up if it holds). Such a "thief in the night" move in the futures to take out all stops makes me think that the large/huge move is <b>imminent</B>!

If I had to guess I would suspect that it will move opposite to all the negative news of late....ie. we move up. (Biggest up day ever?)
Anyway, pure speculation on my part. I am often wrong so dont rely on my views to take/hold any positions. All just FWIW.

[Angela Shelley]

1. OK kiddies, put on your safety gear.

[masmdu]

28. UPDATE !!! NO TRADES WERE ALLOWED !!!

The trades occurred but then this message was received from broker

"GLOBEX has ruled to bust a number of trades which occurred between 01:01 and 01:05 in the ragnges specified below for each contract. We shall be removing any such executions from your account shortly...ESH8: executions above 1422 and below 1398" (and others).

[Chimichurri]

46. How could that happen? No trades allowed by whom? And

what does this all mean?

[Yuugal]

2. Crash I hope.

Nothing makes progressives faster than a depression!

[Common Sense Party]

3. Yay! Progressives LOVE stock market crashes!

Hooray! The economy is tanking! People are losing jobs and homes and money! Good for us!

:sarcasm:

[Yuugal]

16. why should I care if rich people suffer?

When have they ever given a shit about the working class or poor? The economy is tanking because we don't make anything here anymore. Don't blame the working class for that. Richie Rich said it would be good for America and he was wrong, it was only good for him. If you think the people in my ghost town are going to give a shit when rich people jump out of windows you're mistaken.

[leftynyc]

20. A depression would hit the working class

and the poor much harder than the rich. Your class envy is pretty ugly and uninformed.

[Yuugal]

25. Sorry I can't be the "happy poor" you want me to be

"Your class envy is pretty ugly and uninformed."

Is that what assholes like you call it when poor people struggle? You're next in line so yuck it up while you can.

[leftynyc]

51. Bite me

I was pointing out that unlike your uninformed post about the rich getting hit during a depression, it's the poor that's going to suffer the most. Sounds like that's okay with you as long as the rich get one less cocktail.

[kelligesq]

27. The middle/lower middle class has been in a depression

for awhile.

The "booming economy" is based on the stock market booming,

but not the average working person booming with higher gas, higher rent, higher
credit card rate, higher food cost,higher utility costs etc.

[leftynyc]

52. But what happens when the market "crashes"?

So a rich person will now be worth 7 million instead of 10 million. Meanwhile, the companies that employ the poor and middle class will cut their payrolls down to the bare bones, will stop hiring and will stop including health care as part of the package. I understand the average worker is already suffering - I gave up my car 3 years ago because it was a luxury. Everything costs more now but the rich aren't going to feel that. If their food bills goes up 15%, they wont even notice.

[TalkingDog]

32. Defend that assertion please.

Despite "official" figures the jobless rate is much higher than reported.

Inflation has been climbing quite rapidly. So the Non-Core items that, you know, don't really count for the economy like fuel, heat and food, have gone up 12 to 25% or more in the last year.

The poor have no health insurance.

They can only get low wage service jobs. If they can find a job at all.

Any form of higher education means they have to go into debt for life.

Thanks to unethical bankers and their illegal dealings millions of lower income people will lose their homes due to foreclosure. And now those same people will no longer be eligible due to new, tighter rules.

Returning vets can't get adequate health care, are turned out of the service without mental and emotional care because the military bureaucrats have found a way to use "pre-existing conditions" as an excuse to deny treatment.

WIC funding has been cut
SCHIP funding has been cut

Clinton the 1st did away with welfare and gave us "workfare" instead which
puts women in the position of working simply to pay for child care, so they can work, so they can pay for child care.

So, 'splain it to me Lucy....How exactly is a depression going to hurt the poor worse than the rich?


My Favorite Master Artist: Karen Parker GhostWoman Studios

[leftynyc]

53. Do you really think the rich

will notice their food bills going up 15%? Or their gas? They will ride it out just like they always do. Meanwhile, the companies they own will cut down to the bare bones and while they are announcing these difficult choices to their shareholders, they will get rewarded with their stock going up. That's what I mean. People will get fired, laid off, benefits cut (most esp health care). Get it now?

[TalkingDog]

59. Nope, I think I'm terminally dense. I didn't say the rich will suffer from a crash.

I'm saying: It's already bad for poor people. It can get worse, but only by minute degrees.

I'm pretty sure, however, the middle class and upper middle class will be kicked squarely in the 'nads.

Your assertion is: the poor will suffer.

Mine is: they already are.


An extra layer of shit in their shit-sandwich is only a matter of proportion.



My Favorite Master Artist: Karen Parker GhostWoman Studios

[alfredo]

35. That's right, and those with billions will buy up everything they can

at pennies on the dollar. You think consolidation is bad now, just wait.

[fascisthunter]

42. Here's Where Arrogance Creates More Animosity from Real Ignorance

It's not about ENVY!!! It's about being screwed economically while the rich get richer, then being told we are sour grapes and envious!!!!!! It's a very real stark reality for most humans on this planet with the puny exception of an arrogant and ignorant minority that keeps staking the odds against us, even when we are on our backs. We die while the rich suffer the loss of a cocktail or two or a vacation to the Bahamas. It's the arrogance and attitude that creates so much animosity, but you keep pretending to yourself that it's envy. Go ahead....

[Common Sense Party]

37. What the hell makes you think a stock market crash only hurts the rich?

That's people's retirement savings--their 401(k)s, their IRAs. Those are working people. I know people earning $30,000 or less, but have saved up hundreds of thousands in their retirement plans. How would their savings evaporating help you, exactly?

Your rooting for a further economic meltdown is callous and self-centered.

[HughMoran]

57. stupidest logic I've read to date!

wow, just wow. I am speechless...

[spanone]

58. a lot of folks have their ira's and savings in mutaul funds...it's not only for the rich

[fascisthunter]

40. Keep Your Generalities to Yourself

I'm a liberal and I don't want a crash neither do most others.

PS - conservatives CREATED THIS MESS. Get a clue

[Common Sense Party]

43. Precisely why I used a sarcasm tag.

I don't want others to think what one idiotic poster says is in any way indicative of all of DU.

Get a clue yourself.

[dchill]

54. Actually...

MY economy tanks more whenever the market goes up - it only means the street has found more ways to rob the US economy.

So take your :sarcasm: and put it where it will do some good.

[fascisthunter]

60. .

[Common Sense Party]

61. How so? Please explain -- without all the snide comments. nt

[DUyellow]

4. wow, really... wow The last thing we need is a depression.

[Yuugal]

17. Come to upstate ny

Depression is already here.

[Common Sense Party]

36. Depression? Really? What's the unemployment rate in upstate NY?

What does your Senator say about that?

[Yuugal]

62. My senators are dlc sellouts

who don't give a shit whether people like me live or die. Whatever they say the "employment rate" is.............well, I guess that depends on what your definition of "is" is. When my ex-wife took more than a few months to find a job they called her unemployable and don't count her at all anymore. People like us just don't exist to them.

I can tell you what my town looks like though. A ghost town. An empty railroad yard that used to employ hundreds and was one of the busiest in the state. Lots of empty brick buildings that used to manufacture things. Over half of my town is rental houses owned by a few rich families. If you want some of that glorious "ownership society" come on up though. Most of the houses are selling for under 100k, not that many ever sell. Bring money because you sure as shit won't get a job here.

If it wasn't for the local college there just wouldn't be a town here anymore. The saddest part is we are the "rich city" in this area because our average income is a whopping 25k. If you want to see real depression era suffering drive just outside the city to Davenport.

Please don't think we are all looking for a handout. People are proud up here and help their neighbors. Local farmers working with food pantries and food co-ops, churches working hand in hand with progressive atheists to give the poor kids of this town even a little joy on the holidays and help to families year around who have absolutely nothing. People barter alot up here because money is scarce.

I'm proud of our little City of the Hills. There isn't much crime or racism here because hunger and hardship don't have a color and people won't steal from their friends here. We are angry that rich corporate scumbags sold our country down the river, but limousine liberals should never make the mistake of thinking we have "class envy". This town has alot more class than most places I've ever been.

We just want our country back.

[Xithras]

7. Yes....and no.

People also tend to turn back to their roots and religious beliefs when their world falls apart. People have an innate need to believe that a bad situation can get better, which drives expansions in religious participation whenever social and economic opportunity evaporate. A rise in religious participation benefits conservatives.

Ultimately a depression doesn't offer advantage to either side. Instead, it simply leads to polarization and strife.

[Voltaire99]

9. Keen grasp on history there.

Ultimately a depression doesn't offer advantage to either side. Instead, it simply leads to polarization and strife.

That must be why Roosevelt failed to enact any New Deal programs, right?

[Xithras]

10. True, but look at the other side.

The New Deal programs were a benefit for progressives, but the Great Depression also gave new life to a dying KKK, lead to the wholesale expulsions of hispanics from the United States, brought the equal rights movement (which had given women the right to vote) to a grinding halt, and lead to the nationwide imposition of anti-vagrancy laws that made UNEMPLOYMENT a criminal offense in many areas. Hardly a victory for leftists and progressives. And let's not forget that the depression, which was GLOBAL (as is the current economic slide) gave rise to the Nazi's, Franco, and the Italian fascists.

Depressions ultimately aren't favorable to either side.

[aquart]

19. Yup. It's great big "other side."

[WilliamPitt]

30. I make in my pants sometimes.

[babydollhead]

48. I love to make in my pants!

[Yuugal]

63. You make in your posts too you arrogant prick nt

[Squatch]

50. I'm with you.

A crash would be a good opportunity for the managers of all the mutual funds I won to acquire quality stock at a low price. My investment horizon is still 30 years, so any wild swings in the market now just help me in the long, long run.

[HughMoran]

56. Thanks for wanting to destroy my family

for political gain :(

[puerco-bellies]

5. Hmm..

Most electronic sell stops will have been tripped. My guess is a lot of positions sold well below the market value as of the close Friday. Just looked at a 30 minute S&P futures chart and it seems to be dipping instantaneously like it is looking for a bottom. Most people looking at one of their futures composite positions might feel a little nervous.

My guess is it is the futures indices are going to crash on market open. If not this will be a colossal "bear trap".

[Adsos Letter]

6. Is there any way of saying that in english...

for those of us who are challenged when it comes to economy-speak? :)

[Adsos Letter]

11. I guess not...

:(

[puerco-bellies]

12. The sudden drops trigger automatic sales.

A sell stop is an automatic order to sell a position if the market value drops below a predetermined price. The price recovering value probably represents those electronically sold being bought again. Most likely at a price lower then they were last Friday at the close.

When a market shows sudden short lived drops like that usually signals that a big drop is about to happen. Even if a drop is not fundamentally warranted, instability is abhorrent to those who play the markets and causes participants to pull out and wait on the sidelines. This can trigger a sell off or market crash.

A "Bear Trap" is a financial loss to those playing the markets counting on a drop in value.

If it is only a market burp, big players will wait for a panic sell off and do two basic things.

1. Buy positions sold off for below true value.
2. Sell or write puts. Puts are "bets" that the markets will drop. If the market does not suffer a substantial or sustained drop these positions are worthless to the buyer, and the seller pockets the money.

[Adsos Letter]

13. Thankyou for taking the effort to educate me, puerco-bellies...

Seriously! :hi:

[TalkingDog]

33. Hey adsosletter, I lurk around the daily Stock Watch thread

and sometimes offer up a tidbit when I can.

It's a good place to watch and learn.

Hop on over. It starts in Latest Breaking News every morning about 8:30 or
so. Then usually over to the Greatest.


My Favorite Master Artist: Karen Parker GhostWoman Studios

[Adsos Letter]

34. Thanks for the invite!

Except for a 401k and savings (and my house) I don't have anything to put into the market (putting 2 girls through college). But, I know my 401k is in there and I would just generally like to know what all the economic-speak actually means. So...I'll be there!

:hi:

[dkf]

8. Where are you seeing this?

[masmdu]

14. Futures trading charting software...data per CME

[TheWebHead]

15. the futures are relatively flat

slightly up, but nothing to hyperventilate about. I think we're due for a pretty good move up. Last year the markets were flat, the PE ratios certainly aren't as out of line as they were in 2000... even if we officially go into recession, people will enter on expectations we'll soon return to growth.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

18. Time for the elite to create some wealth by causing a run in short sales? n/t

[Double T]

21. Curbs will be kicking in early today.

[Didereaux]

22. central banks injecting funds have done this the past few months. Trying to generate a pos reaction.

...so far half a trillion(gve or take a buck or two) has had no lasting effect. trend remains downward. Watch for a 2-3 week downtrend that is steeper than the average over the preceeding 3mo period...THEN START WORRYING!

[JCMach1]

24. This looks like a rate shift rally in the offing

I will take anything considering the shitty start to the year.

[JCMach1]

65. looks like I was right... market will bias to positive until

significant shitty news comes down the pike...

[sendero]

23. Whatever it might do today..

... the longer term trend is down, down and down.

Silver and gold at new highs overnight, doesn't sound like an up move to me.

[kelligesq]

26. Kcast

the arrows on silver and gold still pointing up.

Looking at the graph above, if I was still in the market, which I'm not, and I saw a drop like that I'd have arrythmia.

But what news could be causing the rise of the metals and the drops in the futures.

Something going on that we dont know about

unless it's bush's big mouth trying to urge another war.

might could be that?

[masmdu]

29. UPDATE !!! NO TRADES WERE ALLOWED !!!

The trades occurred but then this message was received from broker

"GLOBEX has ruled to bust a number of trades which occurred between 01:01 and 01:05 in the ragnges specified below for each contract. We shall be removing any such executions from your account shortly...ESH8: executions above 1422 and below 1398" (and others).

[formercia]

31. Margin calls

The market has dropped more than 10% of peak and those who bought on margin at or near peak prices are going to get burned. Once the ball starts rolling and more and more margin calls occur the rate of fall will increase.

[Common Sense Party]

38. Dow's up 95 points now. S&P up half a percent.

Not a big move in either direction right now.

[Zywiec]

41. Yep, more hysteria over nothing,

but I always enjoy reading about people rooting for a crash. Same type of people on the right rooting for the Apocalypse.

[Common Sense Party]

44. Exactly. Schadenfreude central.

As if wishing ill on others is going to make MY life any better.

[natrat]

39. seems like they pull this crap at intermidiate tops and bottoms to clear stops

and accumulate or cover up---the whole thing is such a racket--i mean is the ppt simply an extension of the big trading houses or vice versa more probably

[kelligesq]

45. really funny - what I said up thread- turn on cnbc and

there Sue is asking Goldman Sachs " Do you think we are in a recession now?"

Goldman Sachs:"Well not yet, but maybe next month"

and then they ask the next guest the same and the same and the same


Yup they see opportunies to buy other financials, but would NOT buy REAL ESTATE
(they're waiting for it to still bottom is my take)

[CK_John]

47. Check this headline, "Russian accounts frozen in France" on bbc

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7187993.stm>

[defendandprotect]

49. Is it another Great Depression yet? Bushco will be cheering---!!!

Remember peace and the surplus???

How lon ago was that??

[Zywiec]

55. Stocks Rally on Robust IBM Results - Up over 171

http://finance.yahoo.com/

[Common Sense Party]

64. We're doomed, I tell ya! DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!!

:tinfoilhat: