"WHile Obama admits he can't manage himself out of a paper bag as President of US..." ---Fineman

[Blackhatjack]

"... he is a very likeable guy." --Howard Fineman.

This commentary is all over the map.

[leeman67]

1. That doesn't even make any sense.

God I hate the media.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

2. "A messy desk is a sign of a messy mind"

That is drilled into you when you work in business.
I know it's true because if you could see my desk right now... :(

He didn't do himself any favors by those comments.

[Skittles]

19. I don't agree with that statement at all

the people I have known with the neatest desks were also the laziest and/or most worthless people

[Viva_La_Revolution]

27. Both of us are correct...

http://management.about.com/cs/yourself/a/MessyDesk081202.htm

However, that wasn't my point really. Telling voters that you cannot keep track of a piece of paper for more than a few minutes does not make them feel secure that you can keep things in order as president.

[Justitia]

3. Absolutely bizarre. -eom

[Blackhatjack]

4. Makes you wonder what it takes to qualify for a political pundit position...

I am convinced they don't know anything.

[Hoof Hearted]

6. Really expensive eyewear, plastic surgery and a love of ones own voice.

That's pretty much it.

[sandnsea]

15. Willingness to say anything you're paid to say n/t

[killbotfactory]

20. you have to sound like you know what you are talking about

That's about it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

5. I Thought That Was The One Monumental Failure Of The Debate.

It was the only point in which I went "WTF? Why would he say that?"

It totally made him come off as irresponsible in certain ways. I personally thought that comment on his part was a huge snafu. You can't help thinking "shit, what kind of important security paper might he lose" etc. Just a bad bad thing to say in my opinion. To be honest, there isn't a professional interview in the world I can think of, that the interviewer wouldn't totally be turned off to the applicant if they admitted such a thing. I don't know what he was thinking.

[nonconformist]

7. I agree... it was cringeworthy. nt

[Hamlette]

9. nonsense

there are lots of us who can't be trusted with "paper". And we have messy desks. Some of us are the most productive people, some not so much.

Anyone who works in an office knows there is no hard and fast rule for determining who are the worker bees and who are the smartest based. It has nothing to do with paper or mess

There is a GREAT character in Breaker Morant, the lawyer. Who is a mess, slips of paper in every pocket, appears completely disorganized. Is the hero. Also, think Clarence Darrow...a mess and brilliant.

My guess is W's desk is neat and clean.

Nuff said?

[Blackhatjack]

10. In real life lawyers are like vacuum cleaners when it comes to paper....

We keep copies of every paper, slip, note, document, anything with writing on it, that happens to be within reach.

Edwards would not lose anything!

[sandnsea]

30. Your secretary keeps it for you

Don't even kid. I was the secretary.

[Hamlette]

36. thank you

As a lawyer of 30+ years, you nailed it. Support staff keep the paper.

[TwilightGardener]

11. Someone post that picture of Gore's office...

I thought Obama's disorganization admission was very normal and human, and did not devalue him in the slightest--and he and I share that trait! I can't fucking find anything. I wish I had staff.

[Muttocracy]

13. yeah, I liked it 'cause it was a real answer

and not trying to spin (I feel too much pain, I'm too emotional - they might want those back even more if they want to be commander-in-chief).

and in full disclosure, I tend toward messy though I cleaned my desk today!

[TwilightGardener]

16. Yeah, John's and Hillary's answers were like those cheesy job-interview-spin

answers: "My biggest weakness is that I am such a workaholic, I don't even want to relax on weekends, I just want to keep working!" :eyes:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

18. It's The Furthest Thing From Nonsense.

"there are lots of us who can't be trusted with "paper""

Yes, and we probably shouldn't be running for President, either.


"Anyone who works in an office knows there is no hard and fast rule for determining who are the worker bees and who are the smartest based. It has nothing to do with paper or mess"

One would hope that the criteria for leadership would be a bit heavier for the Presidency, than in your office, with all due respect.


"There is a GREAT character in Breaker Morant, the lawyer. Who is a mess, slips of paper in every pocket, appears completely disorganized. Is the hero."

Wait... Tell me you didn't just use a fictional character as evidence of your assertion. Wow.


"My guess is W's desk is neat and clean."

Goes to show you that even bad Presidents, can at least have that quality under their belt.

I said it before and I'll say it again: Go into any professional interview and tell them that you're disorganized, lose paper easily, and need good people around you to make up for your total lack of organizational ability, and see how far you get, ok?

Now I'm not saying he should be disqualified for such, since I technically think that any of the 3 would make a fine president. But what I do know, is that it leaves a really crappy impression on the objective eye, and I think it was a monumental mistake on his part.

[mondo joe]

28. It was a very Bush-like answer. I can almost hear him saying it.

Though not as well as Obama, of course.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

29. I Just Couldn't Help But Keep Thinking That He's Smarter Than That.

He's smarter than to have made a mistake like that, and I still kinda don't get it. Obama's really good. How on Earth did he come to the conclusion that saying such a thing could help him somehow?

Think about it: He just sat in an interview for the most important job on the entire friggin PLANET, and when asked to name a weakness (which is standard in almost any real interview) he answers that he's really disorganized, loses papers easily, and relies on good people around him to make up for the lack of competence in that area? For real? Holy cow, my jaw is still dropped a bit from that. Bad, bad mistake in my opinion. I hope it doesn't, but it may very well haunt him in the future.

[Hamlette]

35. We obviously have different criteria for president

I'm not hiring a secretary.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

38. No Matter What Spin You Try To Put On It, It Was Simply A Bad Move And Poor Answer.

It most definitely left a bad taste in many people's mouths, and I'd wager there were far more than me listening and thinking "WTF???".

And not sure what kind of criteria you have for President, but I think many would agree that claiming you are apt to lose paper unless it's handed to you 2 seconds prior to needing it, is not something that would ever fall into a 'good criteria' category. He fucked up that answer; period.

[mondo joe]

39. Have to agree. I don't think we're hiring a secretary. And I expect executives to have

staff who maintain organization. But having sat on a few CEO hiring panels for small-medium organizations, I know an applicant who gave that answer would raise eyebrows. No one expects the executive to maintain his or her filing - but it's not really acceptable to say they can't do it and others have to do it for them.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

12. There was a point to be made on that but he didn't make it. eom

eom

[OzarkDem]

17. I did too

the whole "hands off management style" speech sounded pretty amateur.

[Bonobo]

23. I agree with OMC. It was fucking dumb of him to say for ANY reason.

[patrice]

25. Does kind of support the perception that he's too "general" nt

[mondo joe]

26. Agreed. There had to be a better way to describe himself, though at least he did a nice

job of contrasting himself to Bush.

[Ravy]

8. Brought up an image of Bush in my mind.....

having an aide decide what papers to give you and when to give them is not a good image.

I like Obama, but I think he will want that answer back, at some point in the near future.

[madrchsod]

14. that is really fucking stupid

i don`t think i`m going to watch any of this shit until it`s over

[bbgrunt]

21. Fineman et al are just vile. I am soooooo sick of

all the pundits trying to reframe issues.

[Justice Is Comin]

22. Yep, that's what we need,

a president with the organization of a Columbo. Wonderful for a top detective, almost endearing. But president trainee?????? Yow.

Let's see now, what the hell did I do with those launch codes???

Maybe America will eventually catch on. Drip...drip....drip..

[nebenaube]

31. So

So I suppose we want an admitted product of our times who espouses that the office of the presidency is the CEO of the nation and that she would continue the policies that brought us here? WTF?

[riverdeep]

32. But didn't Columbo catch every single criminal?

I always wondered why someone with that kind of record would have remained just a detective, instead of chief of police, but I digress. I think Obama will have someone who keeps the launch codes nice and handy.

[Rex]

24. Waaaaaaaa?

Hey Howard, how about you get a nice hot mug of SHUT THE FUCK UP. Don't be jealous that someone is better than you. Move on and away from the feelings of envy.

Obama is the shit, get over it.

[riverdeep]

33. While surfing on messiness, I came across this:

"The other surprising finding is that people with orderly desks report spending 36 percent more time finding things. You might think that it’s hard to find things in messy piles. But people who have elaborate organizing systems also have trouble finding things."

"That’s also true for organizations and governments. If you think about it, a lot of our systems have a fair amount of messiness in them and do perfectly well. And many highly successful people are very messy."

http://www.managementconsultingnews.com/interviews/abrahamson_interview.php

Interesting interview.

[Blackhatjack]

37. It is the 'memory' versus 'organization' argument....

For years I could remember the last place I read, used, or put something, and getting back to it was easier using my 'memory' than going through an organizational index to find something.

Plus, extremely smart people 'prioritize' certain important documents and keep them visually handy.

Both systems work, only one looks 'neat.' Neither insures success, but both may work equally well depending upon the person's preference and inclination.

[Leopolds Ghost]

40. Yes, I've trained myself to file a mental image of every quote or piece of paper I put down

Even if I can't remember what the exact wording is, I remember where to look for it. My whole family is like that, all our tables are covered with carefully ordered piles. It's a genetic (German?) thing.

[Perry Logan]

34. "Obama can't manage himself out of a paper bag." Good phrase to throw around.