What Do You Think About These 12 Issues?

[Orwellian_Ghost]

- Adopt single payer national health insurance

- Cut the huge, bloated, wasteful military budget

- No to nuclear power, solar energy first

- Aggressive crackdown on corporate crime and corporate welfare
- Open up the Presidential debates

- Adopt a carbon pollution tax

- Reverse U.S. policy in the Middle East

- Impeach Bush/Cheney

- Repeal the Taft-Hartley anti-union law

- Adopt a Wall Street securities speculation tax

- Put an end to ballot access obstructionism

- Work to end corporate personhood

[mike_c]

1. two words...

Ralph Nader.

I presume those are Nader's campaign planks. They must be-- I support them all without reservation!

[Mythsaje]

2. Well...

- Adopt single payer national health insurance

I want to see a workable plan.

- Cut the huge, bloated, wasteful military budget

Oh, yeah. I'm all for smaller, more technologically enhanced and mobile military units, less reliance on sheer massive power that does nothing but sit there and waste money. What good does a military machine that can blow up a square mile of property against people that strike and vanish into a civilian population in seconds?

- No to nuclear power, solar energy first

No Nukes until we have a solid way of getting rid of the waste and better security all the way around. Solar, wind, and geo-thermal.

- Aggressive crackdown on corporate crime and corporate welfare

Abso-fucking-lutely.

- Open up the Presidential debates

I'd rather see a complete overhaul of the process, with it being put into the hands of non-partisan agencies NOT affiliated with the media circus.

- Adopt a carbon pollution tax

Good idea.

- Reverse U.S. policy in the Middle East

Reverse? Not sure if "reverse" is the proper word. Re-evaluate and reconsider, certainly. Give aid ONLY to those who work to diminish the violence, not escalate it.

- Impeach Bush/Cheney

Impeach and throw them out of the country. Sounds good to me.

- Repeal the Taft-Hartley anti-union law

Bingo.

- Adopt a Wall Street securities speculation tax

Now THERE'S an interesting notion.

- Put an end to ballot access obstructionism

Open access for all Americans.

- Work to end corporate personhood

Shouldn't have existed in the first place.

[bobbolink]

3. Too bad poor and homeless people just never seem to make the cut...

:cry:

[gateley]

6. You're right.

And you and EffieBlack have brought that to my attention. You are true representatives of those with no voice. Thank you.

:cry:

[bobbolink]

9. Thank you, gately

:hug:

I don't think I've "met" EffieBlack.... could you point me to a post for that representative?

I'd appreciate it.

[gateley]

12. Here's a recent thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4734873&mesg_id=4734873

I think you guys will have a lot in common.

:hug:

[dajoki]

16. Obama offered to send his wife...

but Tavis Smiley wisely refused. Is that a reflection of Obama's concern for the issue? Let my wife handle it.

[gateley]

19. Wow. You're a wild one, aren't you? This was not the topic of the exchange

between Bobolink and me. If you'd go back to read it, you'd see your post has no real relevance in this particular thread.

EDIT: Perhaps you wanted your enlightening post to be in the thread I linked to. Give it another try.

[Two Americas]

28. thank you gateley

There is an all out war going on against the people, and all of the social problems are manifestations of this war. Those suffering the worst are on the front lines of this war - alone and abandoned, yet fighting for all of us, suffering on behalf of all of us.

First we take care of people, first we defend the defenseless, first we protect the most vulnerable. Everything else will flow from that. Fail at that, and we fail at everything.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

10. Should be on the list

near the top.

:hi:

It's all connected.

The second question is how do you get people to vote against their best interests?

Food, clothing, shelter is a right not a privilege.

[Whisp]

20. it well should be at the top.

I'm hoping this election will result in redistributing things more fairly. But waiting is hard, waiting can be deadly, and there have been so many promises broken, so many broken people, waiting. So many powers that fight every day to keep us all down.

[bobbolink]

21. "Food, clothing, shelter is a right, not a privilege"

Exactly! :bounce:

Don't forget health care... a RIGHT!

"It's all connected."

That's what we keep getting told, yet... nothing changes. Just because you end the war is NOT a guarantee that suddenly we're going to get enough low income housing.. there will just be one more pet issue by the liberals, and housing goes by the wayside again.

We've been fed that for too long --NO MORE!

[Swamp Rat]

27. k&r

:hi:

[dajoki]

11. Like I keep saying...

that is too big of an embarrassment for our government to show ANY light on. Sadly, they would like all of the poor and homeless people to be "good little beggers" and just be quiet and take what they consider to be the "generous handouts" that are a slap in the face to us, but yet allow themselves and fellow disciples to believe that they are actually doing something. What a joke!!:hug:

[theHandpuppet]

24. Well they're certainly on my list of priorities!

And addressing the plight of the poor and homeless in this nation should be a TOP priority. How could they NOT be if we are to call ourselves Democrats?

[The Straight Story]

25. As usual my friend, you are so right

The poor are left out of it all.

Who will represent us?

[pamela]

26. That needs to be at the top of the list.

We need to be looking at all the laws that criminalize homelessness, too, like the selectively enforced loitering laws and laws against public feeding.

[liberal4truth]

33. Yeah, a carbon-tax would hurt the poor for certain. The price of fuel now is too high for many .

[saracat]

34. Hey, they aren't part of the donor base.Neither party counts them!

[readmoreoften]

38. I think that some of these policies are a great way to slow poverty, though.

End corporate personhood and the working poor will become the middle class when they are paid decent wages. Health care will help, too. I know many people who can't work because they're on a tiny social security stipend and they'll lose their health care if they work. Many people with terminal illnesses or even psychiatric problems can't work more than 20 hours a week because they'll lose their benefits.

It's a start. It's not enough. But this is part of the failure of representative democracy in a capitalist system: the wealthy just buy all the power then you get to vote between the choices they present.

[caseycoon]

39. Sadly true

and I have never understood why. What kind of nation are we if we can't/won't address the needs of our people?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

42. They say the true measure of a society

is in how they treat those who are in the direst circumstances. The thing to remember here is that a society cannot be healthy when there are so many poor and homeless. In the 1950s when I grew up, you didn't see the numbers of people camped out or walking around with signs saying "Will Work For Food". And I grew up in a city of 100,000. A lot of folks who didn't have much money still had a roof over their head because old houses were divided up into rooms, with shared bathrooms, etc--but the room rate was such that a waitress with a daughter could afford to put a roof over their head in a nice neighborhood within walking distance of her job. And larger families could rent a whole floor of a house even if their income was a bit shaky.

[bobbolink]

55. "Where there is plenty, poverty is evil" Bobby Kennedy. The true measure, indeed!

People don't like to be reminded of what they aren't doing, but I do agree with you, and think this society has, indeed, become EVIL.

:cry:

"The thing to remember here is that a society cannot be healthy when there are so many poor and homeless. "

That's so true, but it's ignored. Until it blows up in the faces of the muddleclass, that is.

History shows us that poor people will take it and take it and take it.. and suddenly, they will explode. And it ain't pretty when that happens.

Yet, people don't seem to learn from history, and TAKE ACTION. Like the Dems USED to do.

Thanks for your great post!

:applause:

[Larry Ogg]

43. Sorry bobbolink, but the Elite ruling class that own and controls our financial systems,

government, politicians and the chains of debt which shackle the working class, also have other tools that keep the masses enslaved to this corrupt and evil system. Starting with the tools that take over and pervert our ideologies and morals, which then allows them to propagate the racism, assassinate leaders, murder innocent men woman and children for their own pleasure, commit fraud, extortion and embezzlement, create terror, wars, famine, pain, suffering, despair, poverty and homelessness etc. etc…

All these horrible and terrifying things are needed and created by the minority who has no conscience, in order to control the fear with in the majority that does. I don’t believe people of conscience really forget most of the bad things that are going on in the world, but they do burry it in their mind ware it becomes an unconscious fear of the evil they don’t want to face - believing such things will not befall them as long as they play by the rules, and fear the penalties of dissent; so they expend their energies in fighting over questions of no importance. But the time is growing ever closer, for the people of conscience will once again, be forced too face the evil and fight those who have no conscience…
Larry Ogg

If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property, until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. Thomas Jefferson.

This truth is well known among our principal men now engaged in forming an imperialism of Capital to govern the world. By dividing the voters through the political party system, we can get them to expend their energies in fighting over questions of no importance. Thus by discreet action we can secure for ourselves what has been so well planned and so successfully accomplished. Sir Denison Miller

[Kitty Herder]

4. I'm all in favor of all of them. Great positions on these issues.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :applause:

[knitter4democracy]

5. Cut debates. Replace with living wage.

Change number three to Manhattan-style clean energies project.

Add housing help for the poor and a new, more effective housing program for the homeless with full funding of Section 8 until we can find something better to replace it.

[LWolf]

7. See my avatar. nt

[demgurl]

8. What about the poor and the homeless?

Whoever is making this their issues is not a very nice person. Before we do anything else we need to immediately give people a living wage. We should amend our Constitution the way the French did so that housing is a right. We need to start demanding that people are taken care of instead of ignored. We simply need an overhaul of our entire system since people who really need it are ignored and can not do it on their own.

We need priorities.

[dajoki]

13. So right demgurl...

housing should be a RIGHT!! And the only way that can be accomplished IS an entire overhaul of our system!!

[bobbolink]

14. And you're the guy with all the Tonka toys, so start that overhaul!

:rofl:

:hug:

[dajoki]

18. Yeah, I'll have to dig...

them out and get started.:rofl: :shrug: :hug:

[truedelphi]

15. How did the French manage to pull off the housing as a right deal?

Any info you have woul dbe appreciated.

I just escaped, some two years ago, from the second or third most affluent county in the country.

Any time even twelve units were approved for poorer people - you had a huge fight. All the NIMBY-ism etc came out in force to oppose what were actually tasteful condominiums, hardly large tenement style buildings.

And the people being helped were not even poor people - they were mid level professionals - teachers, police, water treatment people - but the city and County governments wanted these buildings built to help in job force matters - as the local governments could not keep positions staffed because the cost of living had simply gotten too sky high.

[demgurl]

56. I am not sure how they pulled this off but they did.

Here is one article I found about the lead up to the vote:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6727731

Morning Edition, January 5, 2007 · The French government later this month is expected to introduce a bill that would make housing a right, just like free medical care and education.

If passed, the homeless, poor workers and single women with children would be guaranteed the right to housing as early as 2008.



The French have threatened to do this for so long that I find it cumbersome wading through all the past articles and all the blogs about it but it did come to pass. At least that gives you a starting point to google with. I can see why the French would be our enemy with their health care, education, housing and being right about Iraq. Boy are they a threat!!!!!

[Two Americas]

29. amen

:hug:

Thank you.

[GreenPartyVoter]

17. Sounds liek a good start to me. So much more we can be doing on top of this, though.

[bobbolink]

44. Which is why I have no interest in Green Party.

They have no interest in poverty.

:thumbsdown:

It's all for affluent liberals.

[GreenPartyVoter]

46. If you say so.

[bobbolink]

50. Many of us do.

Thanks for sneering instead of caring.

You exemplified it exactly.

[GreenPartyVoter]

52. Who said I sneered? I can't post any info that refutes your statement because

it's against the rules.

And anyway, I felt you were sneering at me by making your initial blanket statement, especially when I clearly said there was a lot more that we could be doing alongside of what the OP posted. It was very hurtful to imply that I would be a part of an elitist group like that, especially given that I live in a trailer that is falling down around my ears and am on medicaid. (So no, I have never been homeless, but that doesn't mean I can't sympathize with their plight and want our gov't to do better by them. I happen to think that Socialist countries like Sweden do a better job of caring for their people than this "Christian" nation.)

[apocalypsehow]

22. All important issues, no doubt. All issues that need work, for sure. But until the Democratic

party re embraces the interconnected problems of poverty, housing, and decent health care for all, it will not put back together those great coalitions of Wilson's "New Freedom," FDR's "New Deal," Harry Truman's "Fair Deal," and LBJ's "Great Society" our proud party had for so long.

Oh, we'll win elections, and a fair share of them. But we could win them by consensus-coalescing landslides like we used to if we showed that, in this rich country, doing right by the least among us is not only possible, but a moral necessity.

[bobbolink]

45. "doing right by the least among us is not only possible, but a moral necessity. "

That's exactly what's missing with the Latte Liberals.

:cry:

Thanks for a fine post! :hug:

[lonestarnot]

23. Why did you leave out any reference to education? The real cure?

[mntleo2]

32. Can't Edumicate Until You ...

...have enough to eat, a place to sleep and you are warm enough to do your homework. Housing and food security needs to be first.

Cat In Seattle

[bobbolink]

47. Absolutely! Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs! Surely we're all "educated" enough

to know about that, right? :hi:

What I'm starting to see is that "education" has educated the heart and soul right out of people. No empathy.

:cry:

Great post, Cat! :hug:

[lonestarnot]

58. Not so

Cat in Seattle.

[bobbolink]

63. bwahahaha!

Try reading Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, if you can't empathize.

Pretty common knowledge, so it's strange that you would argue with it.

Try asking a teacher once.

:crazy:

[mdmc]

30. Agree

all

[ProgressIn2008]

31. I think that nothing can change unless these issues are tackled

Corporate personhood and the bloated military budget are huge. But then, they're all huge, and the list is not even complete.

[travelingtypist]

35. Missing meaningful media reform.

Repeal of corporate personhood should be either 1 or 2.

And I could care less about opening up the presidential
debates. Nader can burn in hell as far as I'm concerned
(and I'm an agnostic).

[ProgressIn2008]

54. Media reform - good one. Media consolidation helps entrenched power.

We're at the point where the media challenging power or holding it accountable is an individual quirk of personality that happens in spite of media structures. Bill Moyers, that kind of exception.

[eridani]

36. Sounds like Kucinich to me n/t

[bobbolink]

48. Exactly like Kucinich. No mention of poverty. Exactly like Kucinich.

[eridani]

59. Right. Someone who grew up living in cars doesn't care about poverty

Maybe there are people who think we can fix poverty by ignoring deindustrialization and pissing away trillions on 700+ military bases all over the world, but Kucinich isn't one of them.

[bobbolink]

60. That's right. He dropped it.

Deal with it.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

62. FWIW

Address poverty with full employment economy & social reform
Q: We live in a country today where Latino and Black household wealth--not income, but accumulated household wealth--is about 10% for the average black and brown family of what it is for the average white family. How did we get here and how do we get out of it?
A: In Cleveland we face a situation where there is a massive amount of foreclosures, rising unemployment about around particularly around African American households and some Latinos. Here is my plan first of all. A full employment economy. A Roosevelt type WPA program that puts everyone who is able to work back to work with a living wage. Second a not for profit health care system. Third, universal pre-kindergarten. Four, universal college education. So we need to make economic reform the fundamental driving force in this country and a president percentage stands for the principle of a rising tide lifts all boats not trickle down economics.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Dennis_Kucinich_Welfare_+_Poverty.htm

Dennis Kucinich on Poverty (part two)

Dennis Kucinich delivered these words in November of 2006.

“America is losing its way at home and in the world. We have no money to rebuild America's cities, but we have money to blow up cities in Iraq. No money to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to shelter the homeless in America, but money to rain death, destruction, and starvation on Iraq.

Once again, the hopes of people of two nations are being smashed by weapons in the name of eliminating weapons. Let us abolish weapons of mass destruction at home. I am from the inner city. I have inspected these weapons.

Joblessness is a weapon of mass destruction.
Poverty is a weapon of mass destruction.
Hunger is a weapon of mass destruction.
Poor health care is a weapon of mass destruction.
Poor education is a weapon of mass destruction.
Discrimination is a weapon of mass destruction.
Let us abolish such weapons of mass destruction here at home. Eight and a half million Americans are unemployed.

Bankruptcies are up. The number of uninsured without health care is up. The price of prescription drugs is up. Poverty is up. Crime is up. Homelessness is up. Hopelessness is up. Fear is up. Let us use the trillion dollars which some would cast upon Iraq in bombs and warring troops, instead for the restoration of the American dream, to rebuild our economy, to rebuild our cities and to expand opportunities for all.

Those who say we can have guns and butter do not know the cost of guns and do not know the bread you would put your butter on is being stolen. America may spend over a trillion dollars for war in Iraq. America can give a trillion dollar tax cut to the rich, spend a trillion dollars to put weapons in space, but not a dime more for temporary assistance to needy families.

...

http://thepopesbull.blogspot.com/2007/09/dennis-kucinich-on-poverty-part-two.html

[bobbolink]

64. If he finally said those things in '06, that's good. He certainly didn't in debates.

And what I also go by is his followers, who don't post or respond about poverty.

It's all WAAAR, all the time.

While people suffer and die.

[eridani]

66. No, he did not. Front and center on his issue page

http://www.dennis4president.com/go/issues/end-to-poverty/

[bobbolink]

67. I was THERE in '04, eridani. I know you love kucinich, but I WAS THERE!

I distinctly remember getting the email about their revised "priorities".

POVERTY WAS NOWHERE ON IT!

I spoke to Dennis personally about this, and all I got was "it's all connected." Bullshit.

And, since then, his loyal followers only talk about war, impeachment, etc. NO MENTION of poverty from any of you.

So, don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

You can look down your nose at me, diss me and be disgusted with me and all the rest of us poor folk. But then don't claim that you need our votes, because you've already dismissed us.

[eridani]

68. So, you have an explanation of how we do anything about poverty--

--or health care or repairing infrastructure without fair trade and eliminating the national goal of military domination of the rest of the world? It really is all connected.

[fascisthunter]

65. .

[El Pinko]

37. ...

- Adopt single payer national health insurance YES

- Cut the huge, bloated, wasteful military budget YES

- No to nuclear power, solar energy first Mostly YES

- Aggressive crackdown on corporate crime and corporate welfare YES

- Open up the Presidential debates Maybe - Public funding based on minimum # of petition sig with no private donations allowed

- Adopt a carbon pollution tax Maybe

- Reverse U.S. policy in the Middle East Partial YES

- Impeach Bush/Cheney YES

- Repeal the Taft-Hartley anti-union law YES!

- Adopt a Wall Street securities speculation tax YES, with stricter regulation to stop the massive fraud in securities

- Put an end to ballot access obstructionism YES

- Work to end corporate personhood YES

[caseycoon]

40. Poverty & homelessness are HUGE issues.

Granted we have a great many things to rectify in this country, but when people have no homes, not enough food & are even freezing to death on the streets THAT needs to be addressed first. Our homeless folks now are families, men, women, children, & our elderly whose homes have been taken. In most states now there are many many homes standing vacant. Where did all those people go? Some to family & friends, but a great many more are on the streets. The shelters are too full. Many shelters are actually dangerous to stay in. I could go on for hours, but think about YOUR family living in a car, if they have a car. It ain't easy. These folks are a big part of our society. They need help.

[bobbolink]

49. Survival needs to be addressed first! YES!

Why are we so invisible?

How did that happen?

[Ohio Joe]

41. My Thoughts

- Adopt single payer national health insurance
I know our current system is an abomination but to be perfectly honest, I've not really looked into what the alternatives are and am not versed in the terms and what they really mean.

- Cut the huge, bloated, wasteful military budget
To the bone.

- No to nuclear power, solar energy first
Agreed.

- Aggressive crackdown on corporate crime and corporate welfare
Agreed.

- Open up the Presidential debates
And change how they are held. It seems the front runners, by far, get the most time to speak.

- Adopt a carbon pollution tax
I'm not sure this would work. Big polluters have tons of money and won't care, just pay and go on their way. I would suggest stiff regulation with prison time for those at the top for not complying.

- Reverse U.S. policy in the Middle East
In regards to I/P or the war?
I/P - No, not reverse but become even handed.
The war - Agreed.

- Impeach Bush/Cheney
No. Give them a fair trial and a nice prison cell afterword.

- Repeal the Taft-Hartley anti-union law
I don't know what this law is.

- Adopt a Wall Street securities speculation tax
I'm not sure what this is either.

- Put an end to ballot access obstructionism
Agreed.

- Work to end corporate personhood
Agreed.

[ProgressiveFool]

51. Great ideas. You think a guy who accepts money from Republicans is going to pursue them?

For me, Nader lost all credibility by accepting money for his campaign from Republicans. He can't even make the excuse that maybe they are enlightened. He was being paid to siphon off votes, plain and simple.

And what has he done for the Green Party, and the very worthy goals espoused by the Greens? Instead of gradually building up the party into a viable option for coalition with the Dems, as the Greens are in many places in Europe, he has turned them into a laughing-stock, and set them back 50 years.

And I say this as a person who voted for Nader in 2000, without a doubt my greatest personal political regret (though in California, it was "understood" that Gore would win. Had it been in doubt I would have voted Gore).

[Fire Walk With Me]

53. "Ralph Nader". Perhaps there won't be a Republican in office in 2008

but the Republican policies will most certainly remain, so is there truly a very large difference? Looks to me like they're promising crumbs to the peasants to keep them happy while they continue to rob us blind.

Which of course is a double insult: desperate people are the easiest to control. Is it any different from Bush borrowing money from us to give us a "stimulation" package, that we later have to pay back? And that everyone is so desperate that we think he's being nice, and not mocking us to our faces with our own money, once again?

I do so wish that either of our candidates were even slightly serious about these issues.

[leftofthedial]

57. change "Open up the Presidential debates"

to make all elections 100% publicly financed

and I might swoon

[Blue_Tires]

61. /Mr. Creosote: "I'll take the lot"/