I was willing to give this whole "Voter ID" concept a chance - until today

[derby378]

I like to think of myself as being a progressive. Sometimes I surprise myself with a few ideas I have that turn out to be pretty conservative, at least by Democratic standards. And since the Supreme Court ruled that state "Voter ID" laws were not unconstitutional, I was willing to take a fresh look at the whole thing and even get optimistic about it. I hate voter fraud as much as the rest of you, and I figured, "Why not show some ID at the polling place?"

Then came today.

I heard about the 98-year-old nun being denied access to the ballot box on Tuesday, but I didn't learn until this morning that it was because she had no state or national ID card. She's a nun, for crying out loud. Most nuns I know of take vows of poverty. They may not be able to scrape up enough cash to afford a current driver's license.

And ginbarn made an excellent point while we discussed the matter this morning. She said that if you have to pay for a driver's license (as we do in Texas) or a state/national ID card, and if you need that ID in order to vote, then that is legally defined as a poll tax.

So yeah, I'm against Voter ID now. It targets people of faith and conviction, and that royally sucks lemons.

And I'm hoping the next SCOTUS hearings on Voter ID will put this thing in the ground.

That is all...

[babylonsister]

1. What if they don't drive? I heard expired passports were brought

to the polling place, to no avail.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=130501

And PS, I have an 83-year old nun in the family (by marriage) who has never driven a car, so it's quite possible.

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. Nuns don't have IDs unless they drive

My cousin is a nun. I know for a fact she has no ID.

[babylonsister]

8. I'm just wondering why a passport w/pic couldn't be considered a

valid ID. Nuns can have passports, or they don't travel. Nowadays, they're a lot more difficult to afford though.

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. Did someone say a passport is NOT a valid ID?

My cousin doesn't travel. She works in the community.

[babylonsister]

10. Yes, because they were expired, I guess:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=130501

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. And in today's economy,

I would imagine traveling is pretty expensive for nuns who take a vow of poverty.

[Retrograde]

26. do people expire when their passports do?

I wonder at the logic that says an expired passport - which may have been good as ID a month before - suddenly becomes invalid as ID. I can maybe understand if it's several decades old and the picture doesn't resemble the person anymore (not that mine bears a good likeness to me anyway), but it's government issued after all.

[KoKo]

33. Many people don't have passports and don't drive because of medications, age or they can't afford

a car. For those people having a photo ID is impossible. So, it cuts out older voters (who vote more) but don't travel outside US who would have passport, those on medication, the blind, the seeing impared from eye diseases of age and those who've lost drivers license because of violations and anyone else who for one reason or another doesn't have a drivers license.

Plus the time it takes to get your birth certificate given the beauracracy can be weeks, which wouldn't give enough time if a state decides to require it sooner than the ability of someone to obtain it. Plus that wouldn't be a photo ID...and that would then take more time to get the photo. If you are elderly it's hard to do that kind of thing. I don't know how they will handle the Absentee Ballots...will you need to send a Photocopy ID or copy of drivers license? Lots of folks don't have easy access to getting copies of that in time to vote, either if some states rush this through.

It could disenfranchise lots of voters.

[SmokingJacket]

2. There are lots and lots of poor people in this country.

Poor or otherwise not part of the mainstream (Amish, back to the landers, etc) who should not be prevented from voting.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. 65000 in MO

In 2006 when MO passed its voter ID law there were 65000 people who had no ID and most of them had no way of getting an ID.

[Echo In Light]

13. Poor people who just happen to traditionally vote democratic

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. And elderly people who are more likely to vote Democratic

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. The SC only ruled that INDIANA'S voter ID law was okay

And the reason was that Indiana provides IDs for free.

So this ruling in no way opens the floodgates for other states to pass voter ID.

MO's law was thrown out by its state SC because it was considered a poll tax. So yes, your wife gets it alright.

:hi:

[goddess40]

14. Not free

In WI to get a picture ID you need a birth certificate. This means you have to get to the county court house and pay a $4 fee, that is if they can find your certificate. If you were born some where else you have to contact your place of birth and probably pay a fee for it. Then you have to get to where driver's licenses are issued. In the city where I live it is located about 10 miles from the city and there is no bus service out there. And how about all the seniors in assisted living who no longer drive? Free doesn't always mean free. And when asked to prove there was wide spread voter fraud no one could do it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. I don't know if birth certificates are free in Indiana

I only know that the SC ruled that since the IDs are free, the law is not unreasonable.

And hey you're preaching to the choir here. My mother spent the last 6 months of her life trying to register to vote. She had no birth certificate and no ID. It was a freakin nightmare.

[Breeze54]

31. An Indiana certified Birth Certificate copy is $15.00

Birth Certificate and Birth Record Page
Indiana Birth Certificate Indiana Birth Certificate Mail-In Request Form
... Vital Records 1923-Present - The fee for one certified copy is $15.00. ...
str82u.net/birth_certificate_all_states.htm

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. In MO, the state SC threw out voter ID

because you have to pay for a BC.

I guess the US SC thought this was no big deal. :shrug:

Still seems wrong to me.

[notesdev]

5. You shouldn't have to pay

for an ID card. That, and not the ID requirement, is the problem. As you noted, to do otherwise constitutes a poll tax.

[geek_sabre]

7. Somethings not right there

Shouldn't she at least been given a provisional ballot?

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

24. Yes according to the indiana law

she should have been allowed a provisional ballot..

[krispos42]

29. Which would have been thrown in the trash

Because there was no mistake made. She had no valid ID and therefore was not eligable to cast a ballot.


Same thing as being purged from the voting rolls. You fill out a provisional ballot because hey, you're sure you registered, right? Only you didn't because the nice people doing a registration drive at the local supermarket three months ago were actually paid Republican people that, at the end of the day, only filed Republican forms with the election board and threw all the independent and Democratic forms in the trash. So because your form never reached the election board, no mistake was made on the voter rolls, and your provisional ballot gets tossed.

[flor de jasmim]

12. The ID is free, but the birth certificate (plus postage/transportation) is not...

[Jack from Charlotte]

15. State should be required to supply photographers who travel to....

the person applying for voter registration. Free to the applicant, of course.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. Bingo

Too bad the SC didn't see that as an unreasonable burden.

[flashl]

16. Veterans too ...

Voter ID creates hassle

Russell Baughman, 61, has fought in three conflicts as a part of the United States Army. He was on the front lines in Vietnam in March of 1967 during a battle that has since become known as “the bloodiest week.” He was sent to Panama shortly after the 1989 U.S. invasion as part of a security maintenance force. And he spent six months in the deserts of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait during the Gulf War in the early ’90s.

...

But Baughman was told that neither of his photo IDs were valid.

...

He had been to the license branch several times, trying to attain a new photo ID card, and had been denied. In order to get a new photo ID, one must have one form of primary identification: an original birth certificate or naturalization card, a U.S. Veterans Universal Access Identification card, a current military ID card or a valid U.S. passport.

...

Like many citizens in Indianapolis, Baughman had no idea where his birth certificate was. His veteran’s ID card wasn’t being accepted because it was issued by the VA hospital and not by Fort Harrison (even though it took a proof of identity when he was issued the VA card). And though Baughman has spent more time overseas than your average American citizen, the kind of traveling he did never required a passport.

[FredScuttle]

17. I hate voter fraud too...

the same as I hate Dracula, the Wolfman and other phantom evils. Glad to hear you are now against it, but it was a ridiculous fraud propped up by Republicans to begin with

Take a guess as to how many cases of voter impersonation have been prosecuted in the state of Indiana ever

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

22. I guess maybe SCOTUS thought they meant Illinois, not

Indiana. Here both Pukes and Dems vote the cemeteries.... :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

I agree with you totally. It's a made up issue by the Pukes.

In fact, on Super Tuesday here in Illinois, a Puke operative had a family of Arab-Americans vote in the Puke primary. The only reason I know this is because the mother, who spoke very limited English, told me she wanted to vote for Hillary and she wanted to know why she wasn't on the ballot.

When these people approached the registration table before voting, I noticed a guy in a dark overcoat with them. I figured he was a relative or something like that. But when I asked who he was he quickly exited the polling place. I mean he skeedadled like a bat out of hell.

[pegleg]

21. It really is a poll tax in disguise. nt

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

23. That polling place broke the law

She was supposed to be allowed to cast a provisional ballot to which she would then have 10 days to go to the county hall to validate it. The poll workers, not the law, was the problem.

"They may not be able to scrape up enough cash to afford a current driver's license."

You dont need cash to get a non drivers photo ID from the state of Indiana, they are free..

"She said that if you have to pay for a driver's license (as we do in Texas) or a state/national ID card, and if you need that ID in order to vote, then that is legally defined as a poll tax."

But in Indiana you do not have to pay for a non drivers photo ID, they are free and in the SC case the majority opinion specifically sighted that fact as crucial in making the Indiana law constitutional.

"So yeah, I'm against Voter ID now."

Your basing your new view on very poor factual understanding of what happened.

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. But you need a birth certificate in Indiana to get that ID

and the birth certificate is not free.

[hootinholler]

25. Couple that with the fact that voter fraud just isn't a big problem in the US...

Whereas Election Fraud seems to be.

-Hoot

[rexcat]

30. Voter fraud in Ohio this past primary election was rampant...

There were 100,000 republicans who voted in the Democratic Party Primary with no intention of supporting the Democratic Party. They were allowed to change their party affiliation on the day of the election (which is legal) but if they had no intention of becoming Democrats they committed a third degree felony. This is in violation of Ohio Revised Code 3513.19 (http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3513). Becauce it would be very difficult to prove voter fraud and the sheer number of people who switched party affiliation the State won't be going after anyone. At least in Ohio voter fraud is alive and well.

What I would like to see in Ohio is a closed primary election at this time but that probably won't happen considering the republicans control the House and the Senate.

[KoKo]

34. How would a photo I.D. have changed that?

:shrug: That's up to the primary rules of the state. It's not a photo ID problem.

[rexcat]

38. My only point is there is voter fraud going on...

and the stupid ID law in Ohio did nothing to stop it and was not meant to! The whole issue of voter fraud, levied by the republicans over the past 14+ years, smacks of hypocrisy because they are the one's behind the stupid laws and they are committing voter fraud in Ohio in fairly large numbers. These laws are to make it harder for some people to vote, plain and simple. I find the whole situation in Ohio ironic. As for the other states who have enacted similar laws, look at who has supported the laws, it isn't the Democrats, because some people in this country don't want to lose the elections and they will try to win at any cost.

[Breeze54]

27. What frigging "I hate voter fraud"?

There hasn't been one documented case!! It's all a bunch of BS!!

[Iggo]

28. It always seems like a good idea...

...until you find out (again!) that it's just another exclusionary tactic.

Work for INCLUSION, not exclusion!

[Balbus]

32. Bounce.

[sandnsea]

37. When it was just poor people, nobody cared

But when it was a nun, why that's completely different!!!

Why do you not have the same compassion for every human? It should not have made one wit of differernce whether it was an old nun or an old ex-con.