Do you choose not to do business with companies with religious overtones simply because of *that*?

[Stinky The Clown]

We needed a particular service that one might need only every few years ... if ever. We asked a knowledgeable person for a list of trusted companies. We called.

The first one answered the phone with some typical business greeting followed, without missing a beat, by some very overt reference to service to the lord Jesus.

We chose to go no further with them.

We're pretty consistent in this. If we see even a hint of some religiosity, we simply go elsewhere. No drama. Just no business. On the other hand, there are businesses we know to be owned by devoutly religious people but who choose not to use that fact in any way whatever for their business, and we're happy to work with them.

How does this strike others of you? Are we being somehow unfair or overly sensitive? Unfairly discriminatory?

[saltpoint]

1. Perfect navigation.

:thumbsup: :hi:

[QueenOfCalifornia]

103. I too

like the map.

[AnnieBW]

2. Yes

If a business is overly Christian, I avoid it. Well, except for dumping off my old crap at Teen Challenge, but that's mostly because they're right up the street from us. It's been my experience that if a business claims to be "Christian", you'd better watch your wallet. They'll rob you blind, then tell you "God Bless You" as you're leaving.

[kath]

6. Yep - that Christian fish displayed by a business (in their ads or whatever) screams to me "hang on

to your wallet."

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. I will not do bidsness with openly religious (as in pushing it on me)

bidnesses, and the same goes for RW

They want to preach, they can do it on their own time somewhere else

[Hawkeye-X]

4. I caught my local Ford dealership promoting Jesus

On their electronic billboard off Evans and I-25 (Freeway Ford - the same place where Romney had his rally here in Colorado - about a week or so before he decided to quit)

Hawkeye-X

[thunder rising]

5. Next!

[leftofcool]

7. I choose companies based on their reputation in the

community, not on their religious preferences

[Fridays Child]

19. Same here.

[leftofcool]

22. We do plumbing biz with a pagan company

that answers their phone "Merry Meet." I find that no different that answering the phone with "In the service of the Lord."

[backscatter712]

8. Depends on the obnoxiousness level.

I, for example, will not eat at places like Chick-fil-A because the chain's run by Dominionist fundies who shove religion down other's throats.

Other businesses that aren't so obnoxious, I'm happy to do business with.

[JANdad]

42. In waht way

Does CFA do that? Other than being closed on Sunday's (which BTW I admire if for no other reason than to provide "Family Time").

[fishwax]

66. here's a summary

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chik_fil_a#Religious_connections

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

9. I don't have that problem where I live, but there are sellers on eBay who use religion

in their listings and I quickly click out. I find it offensive.

[tularetom]

10. I check out their ads in the yellow pages

If there's a jesus fish in the ads, I don't call them.

I don't have to pay to listen to that bullshit. I can hear it for free on my teevy anytime.

[timtom]

105. Do you stay out of kosher deli's too?

(If they display the Star of David, that is)

[tularetom]

109. I doubt that theres a kosher deli within 100 miles of here

Hell, it's 35 miles to the nearest Subway.

And not knowing a great deal about the topic I'd have to say no I would not stay out. Seems to me the Star of David would merely signify that the deli was in fact kosher. Unlike the dumbass jesus fish which is just there to proclaim somebody's moral superiority.

[timtom]

124. And the Star of David doesn't?

[Liberal Veteran]

11. I'm still trying to wrap my brain around "Christian Lawn Care" advertised in my area.

And they have the "fishy" thing going on in the signage.

What the fuck? Do they spread holy water on my grass and exorcise weeds?

[FloridaJudy]

44. There's an establishment near here

That advertises "Christian Auto Repair". That always makes me scratch my head and ponder. Does that mean they won't work on Buddhist or Hindu cars (well, I guess that rules out Hyundais and Tatas)? Do they hold prayer circles for your busted manifold? Lay hands on your burnt-out alternator? Put holy water in your radiator? Baptize your rebuilt - or should that be "born again" - engine?

In case of the Rapture, does your car ascend and dump your heathen butt in the middle of the road to be run over by some Believer's unmanned Lexus?

[Hubert Flottz]

90. I think they want to anoint your heads with 5 w 30...

It's okay to deal with these fishy folk, if you need some snakes hauled off!

[prole_for_peace]

97. We have "Garden of Gethsemene" lawn care here..

there is also some handy man company (can't remember the name) that has three hills with crosses on the side of their van

[Solon]

12. Unless the business in question is in the business of selling religious items...

Books, candles, crucifixes, pentagrams, etc. I find the practice of "promoting" your religion to attract business to be extremely tacky. To be honest, I don't care if your landscaping business is "Christian" or whatnot, as long as you know how to cut grass. But I'm less likely to go to that business, simply because I find it to be in bad taste. It cheapens the Religion to being nothing more than advertising, and that's just sad.

[DavidDvorkin]

13. Yes, I do.

[Spangle]

14. I'm generally offended

Cause I feel like they are using it as a way to get business. So I generally take my business elsewhere.

Unless it's a business where it was expected. Like a religious book store, etc.

[BlooInBloo]

15. If it's relevant to the product/service I need, I'll go elsewhere if it's not too invonvenient.

[Digit]

16. I operate the same way

When I am checking out the Yellow Pages, if I see the fish sign in an ad, I will not call.

I have my own reasons.

[Warpy]

17. When somebody feels compelled to tell me what a great Christian

he is, I check to make sure my wallet hasn't been stolen and look for a hasty exit before it is.

This extends to businesses, too.

There might be some fine businesspeople who wear their religions on their sleeves, but I've come across enough fakes and cons hiding behind the cross that I tend to give conspicuous Christians a wide berth, period.

That's probably the reason for the admonition to do one's praying in secret. Doing it in public gives one an instant bad reputation and is very bad for business.

[peace13]

18. Well there was the time when the guy with the fish on his septic tank pump truck

charged me for a cleaning when he had been to the house only the week before I bought it. And the guy with the fish on his coffee shop door who has literature on how this country was founded by Christians and that it is our duty to keep it that way. He can't seem to keep our peace vigil signs up on the bulletin board. Silly me. I don't do business with folks who advertise their religion any more.

[napi21]

20. The only business I'm aware of that I might have done business with

is Hobby Lobby. I stopped going there because they made a special point to say they were closed on Sundays because it was the Lord's day. I'm really NOT anti religion, and I actually think it's a positive thing when you are very supportinve of your faith, but I resent it when a business flaunts it.

If I owned a business, I don't think I would be open Sunday either, but because I would want ONE DAY OFF! I would want my employees to have that one day off too!

[Occulus]

31. Made in China

Every item in Hobby Lobby is made in China. I went into one and randomly looked at a couple dozen of their "nicest" items, and it was all:

MadeinChinaMadeinChinaMadeinChinaMadeinChinaMadeinChinaMadeinChinaMadeinChinaMadeinTaiwan.

Never, ever going there again based on that and that alone. The 'MadeinChina' labels were even on their furniture.

:puke:

[VP505]

74. Isn't Hobby Lobby

a division of WalMart?

[TheMightyFavog]

87. No, they're run by a guy with ties to the Amway kooks, IIRC.

I never buy anything from them. Back when I was into rocketry, I saw that I could get engines cheaper at a locally owned hobby store.

[AlCzervik]

21. My insurance agent is a fundie but he doesn't preach or try and convert clients

or anybody but ese that i know of and he's a really good agent and apparently he is no longer a Republican anymore.

Check out this letter he wrote to our local paper, i almost crapped my pants after i read it, "My Eric, my fundie gop insurance agent wrote that?"

McCain's getting a free ride

Sen. Barack Obama makes an observation about voter bitterness that is branded as elitist, and we never hear the end of it. Sen. Hillary Clinton exaggerates the danger associated with her arrival in a war zone during her husband's presidency, and we never hear the end of it.

Meanwhile, Sen. John McCain, foreign policy his alleged forte, repeatedly confuses the roles of Shiite and Sunni Muslims and their relationship to Iraq, Iran and other hotspots. Has McCain exaggerated his foreign policy expertise? Does he have age-related memory problems? No one knows because McCain's foibles never register on the media's radar or quickly fall off when they do.

Once again, our so-called "liberal" media obediently follow the marching orders of their corporate minders by (a) muddling the political debate by sensationalizing trivial issues during an election so substantive issues such as our massive debt, Republican rich-get-obscenely-richer tax policies and non-existent corporate taxes are never discussed, and (b) making sure to never subject conservative politicians to the same level of scrutiny that more moderate or liberal politicians get.

[Fridays Child]

32. I had a similar experience with someone I regularly do business with.

[On the Road]

23. I'm Sure a Lot of Those are Perfectly Fine Businesses

but if the Christianity is up front, I usually choose to go somewhere else.

[riderinthestorm]

24. I avoid businesses like that myself.

In my community, it's hard to do but since I believe religion should be a private matter, not a public litmus test (as it is so often used where I live), I try to take a stand against any business that tries to elevate their religious affiliation as some kind of professional standard.

Weird but true story: we patronize an old fashioned mechanic for our vehicles. His shop's been in the area for more than a hundred years - same family, very small business. Two brothers of the same family run it now. They have a "Mechanics for Christ" flyer on their counter but don't push religion - ever. We've dealt with them for a couple of decades now and religion has NEVER come up.

So one day I come in to pick up the truck and a young woman is sitting in the waiting room. She's reading Richard Dawkins' latest. I saunter over and casually mention that it's a great book. Her eyes well up with tears and she asks tremulously, "are you an atheist?" When I say yes, she actually cries and hugs me. As my husband walks into the (very small waiting room/office), I point to him and say "and here's the only other atheist in Wheaton." She immediately cries harder and hugs (my very surprised) husband too.

We discussed the book in front of one of the Voegtle brothers who now run the business, Chuck waited patiently. We processed the transaction chatting happily about the book with the young woman and we left. It's been a couple of years and the Voegtle brothers - even in our overly religious area - never once bring up religion, ever. They continue to service our truck, cars, scooters, golf cart, and trailers.

I believe it's more than reasonable to expect a business owner and it's employees to "be Christian" but not overtly flaunt it. I wish their were more of them that walked the walk....

[madmom]

112. I don't understand why do you believe it's "more than reasonable to expect

a business owner and it's employees to be christian", unless the business is religion based why would you expect this?

[msongs]

25. yellow pages are full of the dead fish logos - we do not call them nt

[leftofthedial]

26. yes

[Zhade]

27. Yes, and no you're not doing anything wrong.

I avoid religious-tinted businesses - their arrogant touting of their beliefs as if those beliefs make them a better business make me instantly suspicious.

[The Straight Story]

28. If they can do the job, I could care less about anything else

They can say in their phone message 'Praise the FSM' and I would not care.

[Charlie Brown]

29. I don't go to Chik-Fil-A much anymore because it's a little heavy-handed

Every location my way is full of plaques and paraphanalia that honor the founder, Truett Cathy, and his "faith and values" beliefs which, for a chicken-sandwich business, just seems incredibly silly.

Although I've heard the Regal theater-chain is owned by a fundie nut, I still frequent them, because they're generally a lot nicer than most other theaters, and they pick up all the anticipated movies regardless, even Brokeback Mountain and Fahrenheit 9/11.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

30. CookOut has scripture on its soda cups...

but damn - $4.62 for a cajun chicken sammich, fries, hushpuppies, and beverage? I'll deal. ;-)

[Xithras]

93. In N Out Burger has scripture on its soda cups too.

I'll have a double double animal style, hold the christ.

[pop goes the weasel]

33. Depends

Nearly every Chinese restaurant I've eaten in has a Buddha and a shrine. Lots of the local businesses have some sort of Christian paraphernalia near the cash register or on a wall. None of that bothers me. But I consider the fish a warning sign, and I'd wonder about a business that incorporated their religion into their phone message. They obviously want me to make assumptions about their honesty based on their public sanctimony, and that is all the warning I need to avoid them.

Oh, and I will never put my care in the hands of a doctor whose office is full of religious tracts. I don't want to be evangelized while I'm sitting in a paper gown.

[murielm99]

37. Twenty-five years ago, my husband and I used to go to a

devoutly Catholic doctor. He was a good man and a good doctor. He has since retired.

The religious paraphernalia in the office was for himself. I remember a prayer he had on one of his walls. I wish I could remember the author, but it was a prayer for the doctor to say. The prayer asked for God's guidance, and that he empathize with his patients' pain and fear. (The prayer was more poetic than my poor paraphrase of it).

When my husband asked for a vasectomy, he said, "Let me refer you to my partner." That was all. The partner saw us that day.

I had great respect for the way this doctor was guided by his faith and his medical skill.

[Hekate]

41. My mom's old GP who delivered all us kids also wanted her to have her tubes tied...

...after too many miscarriages. It looked like my youngest brother was going to have to be delivered by C-section, and Dr. O told mom if she wanted to have a tubal ligation he would "call in his partner, and then turn his back while it was done." As it happened, my brother finally turned the right way and was delivered normally, so my dad got a vasectomy in 1957.

Mom spoke of Dr. O with great respect for his caring ways. He was also a Roman Catholic -- one whose religion guided him to treat his patients with compassion and according to their individual needs.

Hekate

[peace13]

65. What sweet men.

The Doc and you father! Your mother was in good company. Peace, kim

[prole_for_peace]

100. My dentist sold his practice and I went to the "new" one a few times.

I didn't really like them and they had too many religious items on display. I finally decided to quit going after sitting in the waiting room for about 45 minutes and realizing that the piped in music was christian music.

[lakemonster11]

111. Doctor

I went to a doctor in Greece once who had all sorts of religious paraphernalia in his office - several icons, some sort of Arabic scroll, a statute of Asklepios, and a phallus. His bookshelves were covered in old dusty texts in three or four different languages.

It was awesome. Of course, from the fact that he had artifacts of multiple religions, I assumed that he had a scholarly interest in the history of religion in medicine, rather than a desire to convert anyone or display his piety.

[FloridaJudy]

132. I consider the Buddhist/Taoist/Confucian decorations

In Chinese restaurants part of the decor - rather like the lit-up Madonna fountains in Italian restaurants, or the folk-art milagros in Mexican ones. They don't scream "Patronize us, we're Buddhist!" I tend to pick them for the quality of the steamed dumplings (or the eggplant Parmesan, or the quesadillas), not for the kind of art they put on the walls. Of course, no one's ever tried to convert me in a Chinese, Italian or Mexican restaurant. My opinion could change if that ever happened.

The Star of David on kosher establishments, and I suspect the label "halal" for Moslems, is different. Kosher butchers and restaurants have to adhere to very strict requirements to get the kosher certificate: they can't just slap it up there to tell the world they're Jewish. It means the food conforms to the dietary strictures demanded of the Orthodox.

The only one who's ever tried to convert me in a kosher restaurant is my crazy cousin Artie the Hassid, and he does that everywhere.

[FloridaJudy]

137. BTW, when I visited Israel

Virtually all the sidewalk falafel stands had a "kosher" certificate, including the ones run by Christian Arabs. It didn't mean the proprietors were Jewish - just that the food was acceptable to those who adhere to strict Mosaic law.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

34. Only if I felt they were playing it to get business......

....there's a coffee place I go to now and then run by a little old lady who usually says "Bless you" or "God bless you", or some such thing as she hands you your order or your change back. I'm not offended because I don't feel she's a phony about it, it's just her thing to say.

[WillowTree]

35. I don't discriminate based on religion.

I wouldn't avoid businesses (or people in general) just because they acknowledge their religious beliefs openly no matter what those beliefs might be. I have a certain amount of respect for people when they are sufficiently convicted of their beliefs that they not only don't hide them, but put them out there for all to see, not unlike those who put political signs in their yards or bumper stickers on their cars.

If they find it appropriate to begin to proselytize, however, that's a whole different matter.

[Mimosa]

125. I don't discriminate based on religion, either

In New Orleans I enjoyed the multiplicity of displays of faith from Virgin Mary statues on Lawns, to mini-altars to various saints to Buddhist shrines at many Asian restaurants.

I had a great Christian insurance agent. American National Insurance company (ANPAC) is full of Protestant christians. After Katrina messsed up our home and yard the insurance company at all levels realised we were in a disaster and treated us caringly and fairly. I highly recommend this 'Christian' Company. Chik Fil A's founder is a truly nice man too.

I won't pre-judge Christians, Jews or Muslims. I buy services based on reputation in the community.

My best doctors have been practicing Muslims. One of my doctors here has his mother in law running his office. She wears a headscarf, long sleeves and long dress. She's displaying her religion in public. I don't have a problem with it.

[lonestarnot]

36. I'm scared of those on your sleeve types myself.

[Ishoutandscream2]

99. Exactly. Those "wear it on their sleeves" types I don't trust

Good Christian, are ya? Well, show me by your actions, not your words.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

38. Both the cross and the flag send me...

in another direction.

[Duppers]

39. depends

on if they're sacks of shit or not AND this attitude extends to all religions.
But I really hate the kind that tell me that they'll give me a better deal just because they are such good christians. Yeah, sure they are. I deplore their 'them and us' mentality.

[juno jones]

40. WS Burroughs, 'Words of Advice'...

"When doing buisness with a religious son-of-a-bitch; get it in writing! His word isn't worth shit, not with the good lord telling him how to fuck you on the deal."

I think Bill was onto something there.

[Frank Cannon]

61. Darn it! You beat me to it!

I love that whole rant, but that in particular is a GREAT piece of advice.

[juno jones]

77. Which version did you hear?

Have you heard Laswell's version on 'Hallucination Engine', or one of the other adaptations of Burrough's work?- or for that matter, the original spoken piece (which I haven't heard yet.) I've got the Franti 'Spare Ass Annie' album too, but it seems to me Cobain or Nirvana or someone like that put out another at about the same time.

I'm just curious, I enjoy weird stuff like that.

'Hallucination Engine' is an awesome album. And I love that damn rant!

[Frank Cannon]

122. The original spoken piece

On someone's Live365 channel, several years ago. I probably heard that thing 3 times a day!

[Hekate]

43. We go by personal references from friends on how well a person can do a job...

... and count many conservatives among our tradespeople and other service providers. Are they respectful in their dealings with others? Are they competent and honest with us? That counts for much more with us than the religious emblems they may wear or show around the office. Flyers, tracts, plaques on the walls -- whatever. Actually, no one we patronize goes quite as far as all that, but it doesn't matter as long as we aren't being proselytized.

But I have to admit that when I am looking in the Yellow Pages and see all the ads with little fishies I get pretty turned off. They are using a religious symbol to sell a product or a service, and that seems tacky. They seem to shout, "Trust me! trust me! We're all Christians here, and I'll treat you right because you and I are Christians!"

Actually, we are not. Mr. H is Jewish and Buddhist. I'm Pagan and Buddhist. We rather count on diversity and acceptance, and using fishies in advertising doesn't feel like either. It feels like we'll be checked out and then informed of our eternal damnation, because we are not part of the in-group.

Hekate

[Contrary1]

45. Yes, I do...

The reason behind it is that I actually worked for someone like this.

He owned a used car/auction business. There were religious pictures all over the building. "Do Unto Others" was a popular theme, and it worked well.

Many of his customers would not do business with anyone else because they trusted the man. I do not profess to know what was in his heart. But, I do know what went on behind the scenes. Lying, cheating, and breaking the law was commonplace. Money was the real God there, and whatever means to get there was practiced regularly.

Jesus would not have been amused.

[Indenturedebtor]

46. I'm with you on this. I even told a charity guy the other day...

I was flying back home out of LAX. I had about 2 bucks in change and was about 2inches from the bucket when I saw the huge cross badge on his arm. I appologized and told him "sorry I don't give to religious charities." and put my money away. He said "Excuse me? Excuse me? Pardon me? Excuse me?" But I just walked on in to the terminal heh.

Fund your own proselytizing. kthx bye.

[madmom]

56. LOL .. I've done that before, really confuses them!

[old mark]

47. We did business with those people...

...about 15 years ago, got SCREWED by them seriously enough to wind up in court. Their lawyer was the same brand, and I believe the magistrate was as well. We lost the suit, paid the judgement, and their lawyer never filed the payment in the courthouse-we still had legal problems, sheriff coming to our house, bad credit ratings, for nearly 2 years after we paid the judgement.
Have many other stories about these "religious" people, none of them good.
Anyone but their own group is fair game to them, and they will try to get the last penny out of youand give nothing in return because you don't qualify as good people to them.

I would never deal with someone who advertises in this manner again.

mark

[DeSwiss]

48. What you're doing strikes me as perfectly rational....

...and I won't knowingly do business with religionists either.

And once again as is often the case, I find that Chrstians fail to adhere to their own beliefs:

Matthew: 6:5-6 "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."

- Which should surpise, no one.....

[LanternWaste]

83. Should that passage be read

Should that passage be read literally with no room for metaphor? :evilgrin:

[DeSwiss]

116. Its pretty much all metaphor....

- Except when its taken literally....

[sendero]

49. My experience is that..

... I'm less likely to get a fair deal with such companies. I avoid them like the plague.

[Jamastiene]

50. It depends on what type of religious message they portray.

If they constantly put up slogans against gay people or women's rights, no way. If they just put up a message of love and inclusiveness or just put inspirational messages up, I don't have a problem with them. Where I live, I see a bit of both, so I have to choose carefully. I do not want to support any kind of homophobic or sexist hatred.

[stlsaxman]

51. When a main breaker panel in my house had to be replaced, i found a company with a "fish" logo...

in the phone book. i was hesitant to call. all the others were going to charge me to come out and look. this guy listed a "free estimate". on the phone he was very helpful. "you may not even need to replace the main- want me to take a look?"

long story short- he came out and metered the thing and said- "you're good here. call Ameren and have them look at the meter..." i did that, Ameren replaced the meter (which it turns out was arcing and costing me gobs of money on my bill) and the whole thing didn't cost me a penny.

The guy saved me hundreds of dollars and didn't mention Jesus once.

so maybe i got lucky this time.

there's a furniture store in town that says- "Open every day but Sunday in honor of Our Lord." fuck them AND the cross they rode in on!

[BigDaddy44]

52. Nice closing paragraph

What if it said "Open every day but Sunday in honor of our employees, to give them a day off." Would you still have such a shitty attitude?

[stlsaxman]

58. you kidding me?!?! i would drive there first thing Monday morning and buy a bed!

Any company that honors their employees is worth supporting with my hard earned cash!

Wouldn't you?

[Bluzmann57]

53. There is an ice cream co. here that has bible verses

on all of their stuff sold outside their ice cream stores. All the stuff sold in grocery stores, drug stores, convenience stores, etc. The stuff in the scoop shops has no verses on the containers. I rarely buy any of the stuff they sell outside their scoop shops, but I go into their store frequently. It is the best ice cream made, imo and I just can't give it up.

[spinbaby]

54. It depends

Largely it depends on how likely they seem to try to convert me. So the consignment shop with the large "Jesus loves you" banner is out, but I'll gladly patronize the Amish store.

[Burma Jones]

55. Don't see too much of that.......

I would avoid them though because I would not trust them. Anyone that uses Christ to advertise is not following Christ.

[Scout]

57. I do the same thing, and don't feel guilty.

If they are "putting their Christianity" out there to garner more business, they are risking driving some business away.

I don't like ANYONE's religion pushed at me like that. Religion should be a private thing, in my opinion. Or your lack of religion--neither is any of my concern and I don't want to hear about it.

[Bettie]

59. I avoid overtly religious businesses too

In my experience, they are most likely to be dishonest and do substandard work for a higher price.

I also distrust anyone who has to mention "god" or "Jesus" in every other sentence, makes me think they're working me.

[cornermouse]

60. If it's plastered all over the outside, you're not going to find it

inside, which is where it really counts. I always go elsewhere.

[El Pinko]

62. Seems reasonable.

It's rude to beat people over the head with your religion.

it's also crass to use your religion as a way to make money.

I'd avoid them like the plague.

[ikojo]

63. If I had my own home and needed some home

type business, I would shy away from someone who wore their religious faith on their truck or sleeve, so to speak. I almost expect to be ripped off in any business transaction (after all profit above all else) but when I see the Jesus fish, I assume I'll be screwed but the one doing the screwing will do it with a smile on his/her face and expect to be forgiven.

I think one's faith or kindness should be evident by their actions not by any advertising on a truck or brochure.

Just because one says he or she is a Christian does not mean he or she is more honest in their business dealings.

[kwassa]

64. well, the Nation Of Islam makes pretty good bean pies.

Nice dessert. I think they were more uncomfortable selling them to a white guy than I was buying them from them.

[spoony]

67. I'm always amused by people who brag about their prejudices

But for some reason, on DU, it's usually this one. No one posts, "If I hear even a small lisp I ain't giving those homos my bidness!"

Anyway, tell me: would you reject someone for a yarmulke or is this strictly a "say no to Jesus" sort of thing?

[RandomKoolzip]

69. Christians are a powerful, nearly omnipresent majority with a tendency to affect legislation.

Homosexuals are an oppressed minority. Often it is Christians who are doing the oppressing.

If you don't understand power relationships between these groups, there's little I could say or do to help you.

[spoony]

70. We're talking about individuals with prejudice

If you don't understand the difference between personal biases and institutional "power relationships," then it's probably for the best that you have little else to say.

[TWiley]

73. The prejudice of the Holy, or the prejudice of the Sinners?

[yardwork]

106. Most of the posters here seem to be expressing their experiences dealing with institutional bigotry.

Rather than expressing personal biases, most of the posters on this thread are sharing opinions formed by their past experiences.

It's a fact that Christians have a hegemony in the U.S. It's a fact that Christian teaching recommends not advertising one's faith in any way that could be perceived as self-serving. It's reasonable to intuit that when members of a powerful group choose to ignore their leader's recommendations of humility, they're likely to ignore other teachings as well.

When I was a young person, I thought it was kind of nice that people talked about their faith in their businesses. Over time, I learned that many people who are willing to use their religion as a marketing tool are willing to use it as a tool in other ways as well. I don't consider my disenchantment with the overtly religious to be a bias so much as a learned caution.

[Stinky The Clown]

84. Do oyu really not understand what I'm saying or are you attempting to elicit a deeper discussion?

Of late, it is hard to discern subtle meaning.

[TWiley]

102. Ever wonder about that little fish symbol?

The faithful often use this reasoning along with the "straw man" and "personal attack" to defend their positions. That is why it is so annoying to try to discuss anything with them. Ever wonder what was up with that little fish symbol you see on the back of SUV's?


DESCRIPTION OF A RED HERRING:
Also Known as: Smoke Screen, Wild Goose Chase.

A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:


Topic A is under discussion.
Topic B is introduced under the guise of being relevant to topic A (when topic B is actually not relevant to topic A).
Topic A is abandoned.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because merely changing the topic of discussion hardly counts as an argument against a claim.

Annoying as well is the fact that they always broaden any discussion to represent an attack on "all" christans instead of the few that are bieng discussed.

[spoony]

123. Except that the OP and others aren't discussing "the few"

They're saying that any sign of religiosity drives them away.

[TWiley]

139. well did you ever think ......

It does take a certain type of person to use their religion as a marketing tool. Maybe it is this particular personality trait that is the driving force. I know that it is for me.

Proselytizing and Evangelizing have become scourges. Ever notice how "religious aid workers" are either kicked out of countries after a disaster, or not let in to help in the first place? Heck, people even run from free services when that specific mindset is attached to it.

[Evoman]

94. Prejudices against religion and ideology are different.

Religions and ideologies are not ingrained. They are not involuntary. Ethnicities and homosexuality are completely different, and if you can't see that friend, you've got problems.

[GreenPartyVoter]

68. Gack! I would not choose to do business with them, no.

[TWiley]

71. I avoid religious "companies" like the plague.

I will not do business with any of them unless it is absolutely unavoidable. It is trememdously annoying to me when they wear their big wooden crosses and put references to their religiousosity on their business cards.

Beyond this simple annoyance, I do not trust them at all. In a practical sense, I avoid them like the plague.

[racaulk]

72. I once walked into the Arby's in Waynesville, NC and saw a copy of the "Ten Commandments" displayed.

I have yet to go into another Arby's again, and I doubt I ever will. I'm with you--no drama, but no future business either. The right-wing religious zealots already have too much of a stranglehold on our country, I'm sure not going to give them more money to help them out.

In this regard, I approach businesses in the same way that I approach people. If I know someone to have a very deep religious faith, but they are not pushy about it and are respectful of our differences, then I have no problems associating with them (a lot of my closest friends are very religious, in fact). On the other hand, if someone is very pushy and "in my face" about their beliefs, then I won't give them the time of day. With businesses, I find I react the same way.

I think your approach is very rational and fair.

[madokie]

75. in a heart beat

I don't take any advice from religous folks either

[jpljr77]

76. It's one of the great things about this whole "freedom" thing.

Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Choice (in a capitalist/free market society).

A business owner has the right to choose his/her religion and then be very vocal about it. You have the right to choose to do business with them based on what they say (assuming there is a comparable service provider). It's great.

Of course, the flip side is that you have the freedom to tell people you base spending decisions on religious identification and then we have the right to tell you you're being a simple idiot for making important decisions based on religion, not quality and value of work.

Ultimately, Domino's has pretty good pizza and Chik-Fil-A makes a good chicken sandwich. And I'd like to think people would choose my services based on the services, not my religious/political beliefs.

What you described is no better than the French wine boycott and "Freedom Fries" dorks of 2003, in my opinion.

[blondeatlast]

78. The Bible itself tells us to avoid those businesses. See: The Book of Matthew.

Y'know, pray in the closet, don't be a hypocrite, avoid the moneylenders, etc...

This Christian follows what the Bible suggests and avoids them like the plague, guess I'm funny that way!

[eShirl]

79. IMO, if they have to exploit religion to promote their business, they're probably not the best aroun

d. (nor the most scrupulous, I would imagine)

[lightningandsnow]

80. Not unless they discriminate against others.

I try to avoid homophobic and transphobic companies (such as those that don't offer same sex partner benefits, or don't have anti-discrimination policies which include sexual orientation and gender identity). It's not based on religion - it's based on the fact that I would rather support a company who's more inclusive. Also, I try to avoid companies that contribute to homophobic, transphobic, sexist, racist or ableist organizations. Even if I wasn't a pesctarian who tries to eat healthy and hates greasy food, I still wouldn't eat and Chick-Fil-A because of all the money they give to Focus on the Family.

But, if they can "flaunt" their religion without being a bunch of discriminatory assholes? That's totally, 100% fine by me.

[NashVegas]

81. No, I Don't Think There's Anything Wrong With It

By being so overt about it, they're making it plain that if you are a believer, you are THEIR KIND OF CUSTOMER - it's a sales pitch.

I've had someone recommend a particular mechanic, because he was a good Christian. What I really wanted was a good mechanic, so I passed on it.

At my place of work, we once lost a $50k account because someone with veto power found out, at the last minute, we're not a Christian business.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

82. Overly sensitive

We are a diverse people and just because someone is upfront about their beliefs does not mean they want to push it on the world.

If you need wigit X and the owners of WigitHut provide the best selection and service but they have a 'God Bless you' on their voice mail and the teller wears a WWJD necklace is it really worth it to stick it to them so badly you get an inferior service somewhere else?

As a Christian Im more than content to do business with people of other (or no) religious creeds. If they are overly pushy about it that might be another issue..

[blondeatlast]

86. I'm a Christian and I personally find it offensive to advertise one's religion.

There's that whole thing in the Book of Matthew about hypocrisy and the moneylenders--or maybe I'm overly sensible about the Book I choose to guide my life. :shrug:

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

89. Depends on what were talking about..

up-thread someone mentioned 'Christian Law Mowing' while one should certainly do all things to the glory of God I cant find a way to justify that title..

But like I said a Simple 'God Bless' or crucifix / wwjd jewelry does not seem over the top to me.

There is also the part of the Bible where Christ was *very* loud in a public place in fact he was down right violent.

Should you wear your faith on your sleeve? no not really but should you hide it?

Luke 5 "No one lights a lamp and hides it in a jar or puts it under a bed. Instead, he puts it on a stand, so that those who come in can see the light.

To gospel is the light..

[yardwork]

107. As a Christian, you must know that Jesus and his apostles warned against sanctimony.

When I was a Christian, I remember learning that we were to be humble and not wear our faith as a badge. I recall a priest saying to us us on Ash Wednesday that if we were going to go around with the ashes on our forehead letting us feel superior to those without ashes, then we should just skip the whole ceremony. He admonished us not to have the ashes unless we were sincerely embarrassed to be seen with ashes on our foreheads the rest of the day.

Christianity was not intended to be a marketing gimmick.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

120. There is a difference between humility and hiding the gospel

Luke 5 "No one lights a lamp and hides it in a jar or puts it under a bed. Instead, he puts it on a stand, so that those who come in can see the light.

--

I clearly said in other post that things like 'Christian lawn mowing service' is pretty tacky. But should a business owner hide their faith? Is having 'God Bless' on the voice mail being haughty? Is an employee wearing a WWJD (I do btw not think too highly of such jewelry) being conceited in your faith?

Should someone feel superior because they are a Christian (which your priest addressed) absolutely not! Does saying God bless mean you are better? NO!

[yardwork]

128. Agreed, but when a company is using their faith as advertising, they're not spreading the light.

Using one's faith as advertising is inappropriate and against the teachings of Jesus, imo.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

130. Is saying 'god bless you' using your faith as advertising??

where would you draw the line?

[yardwork]

138. No, I never mind when people say "God bless you." It's non-specific to any religion, for one thing.

As I said in an earlier post, I don't even mind when people proselytize to me. I believe that they're doing what they think to be right. I don't care if people put fish on their cars or anything else. It's their right.

It isn't for me to say when someone "crosses the line." Only they know what is in their hearts. Are they posting the Ten Commandments on the wall of their shop because they genuinely believe that they are spreading the word of God, or are they doing it in the hope of attracting customers?

Similarly, when businesses advertise as a bloc of "Christian merchants" in the local paper, what is their purpose? Is it to spread the word of God, or attract business? Only they know in their hearts what is motivating them.

[XOKCowboy]

85. When I lived in Tulsa (home of Oral Roberts, John Hagee, etc)

it was everywhere. When you got your check at the Sizzler the waitress would write "God Loves You" on it with a little smiley face. Those little fish were everywhere. I got that greeting from many businesses and like you, I'd politely take my business elsewhere AFTER telling them why I was doing so. Sometimes they'd try to proselytize me but most just wrote me off as a heathen who's business they didn't need. Whatever.

[bean fidhleir]

88. Yep.

There's a group of people who almost never get imprisoned as criminal psychopaths, but their behavior is psychopathically amoral and opportunistic.

In Leipzig they joined the Freicorps and then the Nazi party when it was on the rise, they threw stones on Kristallnacht, and they betrayed their desperate Commie/queer/socialist/JW/Jewish neighbors to the Gestapo. After the war they joined the new Commie Party and betrayed their former-Nazi neighbors to the Stasi, and after Reunification they became staunch Capitalists and betrayed any ex-Stasi they knew about. They're the ones who never let you forget how devout they are, and how much they Support The Troops while never having been in uniform themselves due to minor back injuries, hangnails, anal cysts, or other priorites.

Two minutes anywhere near them and I need a wash.

[jmowreader]

91. I used to work with a real diehard fundie

This is a guy who used to teach one of those Christian Youth Groups--Awana or some damn thing--and his favorite thing to tell them was how badly they were going to be persecuted for believing in Jesus. In this country? Maybe in Saudi Arabia--but in the US? No.

Anyway, the guy was a graphic artist, and he made up a trifold brochure advertising his services. There were two panels (of five that contained information--the sixth was a mailing panel) that talked about graphic arts and three that talked about Jesus.

Even that wouldn't have been so bad if the brochure would have folded properly, it wasn't full of typos and it didn't look like 1987-vintage 300-pieces-of-clip-art crap.

[Xithras]

92. I have no qualms with faith, only evangelism.

The little fish on the business cards don't bother me. What does bother me are those who choose to use business contacts as a chance to recruit. You want to put a fish on your business card? Fine. You want to ask me what church I attend? I'll tell you that I don't. If you're foolish enough to push the discussion beyond that point, our business is over.

[Indenturedebtor]

104. It's worse than that even I'm afraid. It's discriminatory.

It's like saying in your want-ad "Whites only need apply."

[yardwork]

108. I suspect that it usually isn't intended that way. I think it's intended as advertising.

I suspect that a lot of people who put the Christian codes on their ads and business materials assume that it will give them an edge over competitors. I'm enough of a Christian to this day to find that offensive.

On the other hand, I have no problem with people proselytizing. Oddly enough, it doesn't bother me. Down here in the south, I'm often told that "we're living in end times" or being invited to the next tent revival. Of course they wouldn't want me because I'm queer and pagan, but they think they're doing the Lord's work when they proselytize.

What I really really hate is when people use their self-serving interpretations of the Bible to pass laws discriminating against me and others!

[Indenturedebtor]

110. Personally I think talking about your religion is like talking about masturbation

Sure you can talk about it, but don't get offended when I tell you to shut up and not speak like that in front of the children.

Matter of fact next time someone starts preaching jesus love at me in a supermarket I'm going to tell them about how and to what I masturbate. And when they look at me all freaked out I'm going to say "Oh I'm sorry I thought we were sharing things that people should keep to themselves..." I can't wait :bounce:

Do you not think that a company that places a want ad that says "Christian Company" isn't telling you as a homosexual and a pagan to stay away?

[sybylla]

95. Not if I can avoid them

If they make religion part of their business, then I make it part of my business to avoid them. Otherwise, I don't care what someone's religion is.

[Dukkha]

96. If the fish logo's in the ad I call someone else

If you use your religion as a marketing tool then it's a shallow based faith.

and I include Wal-Mart among the overtly religious types.

[LanternWaste]

98. No more than I am when I avoid businesses that...

"Are we being somehow unfair or overly sensitive? Unfairly discriminatory?"

No more than I am when I avoid professional businesses that let workers dress in cut-offs and flip-flops and wearing hats indoors. Or avoiding a business that allows the employees to listen to shock-jock radio while waiting on customers.

We're all going to project our biases onto who we do or do not do business with. I honestly do not think that it is at all unfair of us-- as long as we recognize those biases for what they are...

[LeftyMom]

101. Depends. If they're some weird, quirky religion I don't much care, but I do avoid dominionists

and fundies of any stripe.

A couple of health food products I use and like, notably Ezekiel bread and Dr Bronners soap, have religious (and in the case of Dr B's, really nutty,) stuff on the packaging, but I'm buying the product, not the wrapper. If I had reason to believe my dollar was going to things I found objectionable, rather than merely quirky and strange, I'd find an alternate product.

[hasssan1]

113. HELL YES

[frogmarch]

114. Overly sensitive and unfairly descriminatory?

No. Any business who uses religion as bait to attract customers is shady, imo.

[madeline_con]

115. I've found that those who make it a point to tell others of their

beliefs are less tolerant of others' beliefs. So, no go.

[krabigirl]

117. Yes, pretty much.

That being said, I have eaten at Chick-fil-a, and I really just don't like the food.

[ladywnch]

118. I would have done the same thing. I don't want to hear preaching

and scriptures from my service providers and I don't want to have to watch my words or actions while they are on my property/in my home. I don't want to hear it. Period.

[and-justice-for-all]

119. No, I will not give money to any religious business...

That money is used to, not only support the church, but also their wonderful missionary trips to tell people to stop using birth control and that prophylactics come infected with HIV.

Religious missionaries are contributors to the problem.

[kenny blankenship]

121. No - but it depends on how much they try to shove it in my face

[Skittles]

126. I won't have anything to do with sanctimonious assholes

nothing

[Hubert Flottz]

127. "Last Supper catering service, how may we serve thee?"

"JC's Fishing Guide Service, we guarantee you'll catch enough to feed a freakin' multitude every trip!"

[old mark]

135. Hubert, you stirred a memory...

a gourmet cheese company started doing business in Nazereth, PA a few years ago, called itself "Cheeses of Nazereth" (True!)

I have no idea how long they lasted.


mark

[Arugula Latte]

129. Yep. That stupid fish symbol is like a big, flashing "Stay Away" sign to me.

[WinkyDink]

131. No such thing as "discrimination" by a CUSTOMER. One is free to purchase wherever.

[Stinky The Clown]

133. You win the "Most Rational Reply" award!!!!

Here's your prize:



(Seriously, that was the most rational single answer in this whole thread.)

[WinkyDink]

134. Thank you! :)

[Lone_Star_Dem]

136. Well, I have told a salesman I'll not ever do business with him.

He sells saw blades and does his solicitations over the phone. After repeatedly having him end our conversations with "God bless you" and then hanging up in my ear, I asked him the next time he called, before he tossed out his closing line, which God he was always asking to bless me? He stuttered a bit. Then I asked him if he uses that line with all his customers or only those in the south? More stuttering. Mind you, I've had him be rude to me in the past because he couldn't get it through his head that I (a woman) was the owner of the business. Yet he kept on calling even after I told him he had pitiful telemarketing skills. This time I told him I am an atheist and his assumption of otherwise had grown quite irritating. I then said that I'd put it in terms he could understand. It would be a cold day in Hell before I ever purchased anything from him. But if he wants to continue to waste his time calling to go right ahead.

Not really the same thing, though. I don't think this man was a Christian but rather a pandering salesman who assumed it would be a selling point due to my geographical location.