Simple question: Is The United States evil?

[cali]

or to elaborate just a wee bit, is this country exceptional in its evil acts both historically and currently?

[Zynx]

1. In short, no. We have done bad things, but so has every single major power.

On balance, I could not demonstrably say we are worse or better.

[AdHocSolver]

20. Since everyone else is doing bad things, the U.S is exonerated. Not!

To paraphrase a wise man, "Evil succeeds where "good" men stand by and do nothing".

[Zynx]

36. My point is that it is silly to condemn a country as evil.

[AdHocSolver]

43. Your moral relativism is showing.

My German professor lived in Germany during the Nazi regime. He did not quibble. He called Nazi Germany an evil country.

The Bush/Cheney U.S. is evil. Bush's granddaddy, Prescott Bush, was very important in enabling the rise of Nazi Germany. Many U.S. companies, from GM to IBM, made huge profits supplying war technology to the Nazis.

An elderly gentleman acquaintance of mine who worked in the hinterland in the Midwest during the war, pointed out his amazement that many Americans, especially those of German descent, rooted for Hitler.

[Zynx]

51. A country, for a snapshot of time, can be evil. For example, Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan.

Those were not just evil governments, but the societies were also inherently evil. In the Bush/Cheney case, a huge portion, now a vast majority, of the population do not support their policies. I do not believe us to be as complicit as the German and Japanese publics were and also the degree of offenses are nowhere near as bad.

[Stuart G]

92. Didn't we call the Soviet Union ""evil'' in the 60s?

If we did, and we knew that the Soviet people were not evil...obviously..then is the U.S. evil..? by those standards..I am afraid we are, and we had better think about it. .......K and R.

[Zynx]

95. I wasn't alive in the 1960s, but we did. The term is thrown around far too loosely.

Calling a country "evil" is assigning collective guilt to everybody for some action or actions. A single person can be evil, so can a small group of people of a similar mindset, such as the Nazis or the Imperial Japanese government. However, an entire country cannot be evil.

[Junkdrawer]

39. America: Not Quite as Bad as Nazi Germany...

Kinda brings a tear to my eye...

[Zynx]

52. Not actually even close. Not in the same spectrum.

[salguine]

68. Not yet.

[Greyhound]

104. Hmmm, citizens shot in the street by police with no consequences,

people taken by force and imprisoned with no charge, no contact allowed, and no legal counsel, indefinitely.

Personal property seized by the state and given to politically connected "private interests", or used by the government that stole it.

Members of opposition organizations threatened, arrested with no charge, and travel restricted.

"Private security" entities given powers constitutionally reserved to the government, with no accountability, and resulting civil suits summarily dismissed without hearing by the courts

Executive appointed to office, contrary to the vote of the citizenry, by the judiciary.

Rights to due process, privacy, etc., denied by executive fiat.

Prisoners forced to labor for "private interests" with no meaningful compensation, or even adequate living conditions.

Invading a sovereign nation and murdering a million non-combatants, in direct contravention of international law.



I'd say not as blatant, but just as bad.

[Junkdrawer]

105. Oh, we're moving close to the 1935 Nazis...but we've a ways to go...

before we can compete with the 1944 team.

Something to shoot for...

Go, USA...Go, USA...Go, USA...Go, USA...Go, USA

[HysteryDiagnosis]

2. Man cannot serve mammals and that other guy, one's got to

give.... heh... Just what in the hell is wrong with rabid consumerism?? Oh, the earth is finite, nevermind.

[realisticphish]

3. no

yeah, we've done bad stuff, there's no denying it, but so has every major power (and most minor ones).

The difference is that our screw ups are more widely known about, and tend to have farther reaching effects.

Of course, one could say that ALL nations are thus evil, but I think that's pushing the definition. I don't think a collective as massive and varied as a democratic government can be painted with a single brush stroke

[AdHocSolver]

33. Any answer except "yes" is disengenuous at best.

Many Germans after WWII, maintained that they were really a "good" people, the Nazi regime was an aberration, and people contributed because they "had" to follow orders. How could the people who contributed so much to art, music, science, and literature be a "bad" people.

Let's see. A country that possessed the most powerful military on the planet, that faked a threat to itself as an excuse to attack a poor country who was no threat to them (Poland), and then went on to reek devastation on its neighbors massacring millions and destroying entire cities. I suppose you could make a case that they were not really an "evil" people (if you really want to make a stretch).

However, my German professor, back in the 1960's, lived in Nazi Germany through the end of WWII. He told about people who readily turned their neighbors, friends, coworkers, and relatives into the Gestapo out of fear, for personal gain, or even for spite. The Nazis came in the middle of the night, sirens often blaring, and people just disappeared. The really "good" Germans lived in constant terror, even of their neighbors.

His conclusion: "German culture: marvelous. The German people: evil."

Then compare that to the U.S., with the strongest military, attacking a country that was no threat to us and destroying its society, turning Iraqi against Iraqi, killing close to a million of its people, and displacing many more. And the U.S. started the Iraqi war, and continues this war, for profit. No different than the Nazis.

What was the purpose of WWII? Profit! How was the profit to be gained: slave labor. Today our fascists send the jobs to places like China, and let them do the dirty work of running the slave labor camps. The U.S. gets the profit out of controlling oil and having the taxpayer pay for no-bid contracts (that the contractors are NOT even asked to fulfill).

One last comment. Germany took care of its returning soldiers. They received medical care and pensions. The U.S., on the other hand, puts its wounded in vermin infested quarters, and asks them to PAY for their own medical care. Meanwhile, 47 million "civilians" cannot afford medical care, the infrastructure is decaying, education is being gutted through scams like NCLB, and many Americans are trying to decide which large-screen HDTV would be the best model to buy.

P.S.

This comment deserves a response all of its own.

"The difference is that our screw ups are more widely known about, and tend to have farther reaching effects."

Many Germans, after the war, claimed to not know about the concentration camps. To this day, there are polls that show that 30 percent of Americans still believe that Iraq had WMD's.

[Hekate]

50. There is no soil on the planet that is not soaked in blood. Is humanity itself evil?

The line between good and evil runs through the heart of each person.

Hekate

[housewolf]

4. May be a simple question but the answer is not simple

It is extremely complex.

The United States has done much good in the world and much harm. Both are true. Neither is more true than the other.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

9. Good? Like giving starving countries food? We send them the money but they have to purchase from the

US. Is teaching abstinence only to AIDs victims in Africa a good thing?

There is underlying evil in everything the government does.

[mike_c]

5. define evil-- we certainly have a largely evil foreign policy...

...and since that's the "public face" of the U.S. throughout much of the world, we're regarded as evil by many-- and with very good reason.

[cali]

16. nah, I'm just curious

I actually never use the word evil. It's too simple and it means too many things to too many people. I posted this, inspired by other threads and posts. Anyway, I gave you a definition, more or less, in my second sentence.

[JackRiddler]

6. Define United States.

[dysfunctional press]

7. yes, generally.

howard zinn makes a very strong case for it.

[Dreamer Tatum]

45. Howard Zinn freely admits to being biased.

I say no, the US is by no means evil. It's like a big, slobbering puppy that
pees and craps indoors and bares its teeth at children, though.

[dysfunctional press]

93. and how many innocents do big slobbering puppies usually kill?

:shrug:

we do it without any second thoughts.

routinely.

[Richardo]

8. No. You're either kidding or high.

Christ.

[cali]

19. neither.

See it as a little experiment.

[Richardo]

22. Put me down for a 'no' then.

Anyone who says 'yes', based on the way you phrased the question, needs professional help and a world history text.

[ret5hd]

24. World history from the point of view of:

The Philippines?
Iran?
Guatemala?
Chile?
Panama?
El Salvador?
Italy?
Native Americans?

[Richardo]

55. You name it....Go!

Compare and contrast US history with the history of any and all of the following - use both sides of paper if necessary....

Mongolia
Turkey
Uganda
Cambodia
China
USSR
Sudan
Germany
Japan
Great Britain
France
The Vatican
Italy
Iraq
Chile
Haiti
Egypt


...and that's just what I could think of off the top of my head...

[ret5hd]

58. So, are you saying that the u.s. is only to be considered "not evil" using a relativistic scale...

that includes some of the worst examples of genocide and colonialism in the history of the world.

Well, at least we haven't rounded up all the Jews and put them in concentration camps (or worse). Is that all ya' got??? The u.s. isn't evil because these other countries were worse???
Where is that rugged individualism that the u.s. is so proud of? Can't we stand in full light and accept or refute our accusers on the strength of OUR record.

And that is ignoring the fact that some of your own examples are prime examples of the point I was making. What country supported (and still supports) the worst excesses in Haiti?
What country supported and still supports Egyptian torture?
What country supported the overthrow of a democratically elected leader AND the replacement fascist government in Chile?

Your argument is weak and ineffectual.

[Richardo]

63. That's the way the OP phrased the question: "exceptional in its evil acts"

The answer: No.

Your reading comprehension skills are weak and ineffectual.

[LSK]

77. slavery? extermination of native people? nuking japan?

Its not like she cant make a case for it. However, not sure what the point of it is because many countries have done bad things and good things.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. Are Iran or China evil? How about the Taliban?

[T Monk]

11. evil is as evil does

[OwnedByFerrets]

12. Pretty much.

[Greyskye]

13. The U.S. is not evil. However...

The United States as an entity is not itself evil. However, I feel that numerous of its policies in our 200+ year history can only be described as such, in light of the suffering caused by them to peoples all over the world, as well as here in the U.S.

That said, one of the biggest strengths of the United States of America is the ability to change. We have the ability to do incredible amounts of good in the world, as long as we are not led down the dark path by our corporate overlords.


(edit - changed "past 60 years" to "200+ year history". Kept thinking of more 'evil' crap we've done outside of the past 60 years)

[Captain Hilts]

14. You have to ask? NO. Don't let the bad guys spoil your opinion of the US. That way, 'they' win.

[cali]

18. I don't have any uniform opinion of the U.S

I'm not particularly patriotic, I admit. My opinion of the country varies. My opinion of the gov't varies.

[hack89]

15. No nt

[The2ndWheel]

17. The United States does what every other form of organization does

Make everything like itself. Diversity being what it is, everything doesn't want to be like everything else. So here we are.

[PDJane]

21. Sigh..........

"You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing but only after they've exhausted all the wrong alternatives first."

Sir Winston Churchill.

And yes, the country, or more accurately, what Bill Moyers calls the secret government, is evil.

[Zywiec]

23. No n/t

[Marr]

25. Of course not.

A nation can't be labeled evil or good anymore than the human race as a whole can be labeled evil or good. It's a collection of shared and competing interests.

If you want to say nation states are more destructive than constructive, or that a specific form of government or economic structure is more destructive than constructive... well, I'd say there's an argument to be made. But is this country "evil"? C'mon. No.

[Blue_Tires]

26. no...not at all

it has at times (like now) been run by evil people/interests...but i try to believe in the general goodness of other people (i know, and i'm a sucker for doing so)

[RandomKoolzip]

27. Oh jesus...

No. I'd like to think the world has progressed beyond Manichean/binary categorization...

[cali]

32. it hasn't

and it was posts and threads right here in River City that prompted be conduct this, I mean, ask this question.

[Telly Savalas]

60. So you think Freedom Fighters vs. Evildoers lacks nuance?

It worked well for Reagan and Bush.

[seemslikeadream]

28. It came into being by stealing the land from the Native Americans then

the elected leaders kill them off, some leaders definetly yes, some no. The United States can't be evil CAUSE IT IS NOT A PERSON.

[warren pease]

29. It's exceptional because, since the end of WW II it's developed a taste for empire...

... and it's done whatever it takes to get there. Like torture, in defiance of every single bit of our disappearing decency and humanity.

Like mass murdering hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians -- men, women and kids; makes no difference -- in an act of barbarism called "shock and awe," and then having the audacity to claim they hate us because we can buy houses.

Like that little 12 kiloton nuke dropped on Hiroshima and its twin dropped on Nagasaki.

Like fire-bombing Dresden, a city with absolutely no military value.

Like using the IMF/World Bank as a front organization with the specific aim of bankrupting previously solvent emerging countries by saddling them with an impossible debt load, then making them slash and burn their natural resources, then sell them off at bargain prices (fixed by the IMF, of course) to pay the interest. And they're not done yet, the other objective is creating yet another cheap labor pool for the corporate massuhs to exploit as indentured slaves.

Like sending various Latin American butchers to the school of the americas to improve their chops when suppressing and "disappearing" their own people.

Like funding death squads throughout central and south America to get rid of left-leaning populist leaders and the movements they've spawned so that the usual right wing military junta can kill even more people while doing photo ops with Kissinger and Cheney and Rumsfeld and all the rest of those megalomaniacs and sociopaths. Oh, and smoothing the way for US corporations to get ever richer by ripping off the poor campesinos, forcing them into slave labor camps and killing them if they resist.

So that's a good start. Here's some specifics:

Covert ops waged by US intelligence and special forces "advisers" since the end of WW II. And these are just the ones we know about.

1940s

* Greek Civil War (1946-1949)

1950s

* 1953 Operation Ajax: CIA and British MI6 successfully orchestrate the removal of democratically-elected Iranian prime minister Mohammed Mossadegh, and installs the Shah as dictator.<7><8>

* 1954 Operation PBSUCCESS: CIA-orchestrated overthrow of democratically-elected president Jacobo Arbenz Guzmán in Guatemala.

* 1957 Operation ?: CIA-financed dominance of the conservative Liberal Democratic Party in the Japanese parliament.
1960s

* 1961 CIA involvement in the assassination of Prime Minister Patrice Lumumba of the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
* 1961 CIA involvement in the assassination of Rafael Leónidas Trujillo, ruler of the Dominican Republic.<9><10><11>

* 1961 Bay of Pigs Invasion: US-sponsored failed invasion of Cuba.
* 1961 - 1962 CIA and Department of Defense covert plans and operations against Fidel Castro.
o The Cuban Project
o Operation Mongoose
o Operation Northwoods
* 1962-74 Secret War in Laos.
* 1963 -- Iraq. The C.I.A. supports a coup in Iraq against the Qassim government.<12><13><14><15>
* 1964 Brazilian Military Coup)<16>
* 1963-64 CIA involvement in riots and violence in Guyana in order to undermine the Marxist People's Progressive Party and its leader, Cheddi Jagan.
* United States intervention in Chile
* 1965 - Bombings in Peru and assistance to counter-insurgency operations <17><18>
* 1965 CIA-backed coup deposes President Joseph Kasavubu of the Republic of the Congo and installs a kleptocracy ruled by the dictator Mobutu.
* 1967 CIA-organized military operation ends in capture and execution of Che Guevara by the Bolivian Army.
* 1960s – 1970s Training and delivery of equipment to police forces in various countries, including Uruguay, by the Office of Public Safety (represented in Uruguay by Dan Mitrione) <17>
* 1968 -- Iraq. The C.I.A. successfully supports coup in Iraq against the government of Rahman Arif to bring the Ba'ath Party to power, with Saddam Hussein eventually taking the helm.<12>

1970s

* 1970 Project FUBELT: US supported unsuccessful coup against Salvador Allende
* 1970s Operation Condor, Latin America
* 1979 - 1989 CIA support for the Contras.<19><20> (See Iran-Contra Affair)
1980s

* 1980 Operation Eagle Claw: Attempt to rescue hostages held by Iran fails.
* Contras (Nicaragua, 1980s)
* 1981 US sends military advisors to El Salvador.<21>

* 1987-88 Operation Earnest Will: Escort of reflagged Kuwaiti oil tankers in the Persian Gulf.
* 1987-88 Operation Prime Chance: Covert anti-Iranian operations in the Persian Gulf.
* 1979–1989 Mujahideen vs. USSR in Afghanistan.

1990s

* Pentagon-contracted advisors to Croatia prior to Operation Storm (1994)

2000s

* Damadola airstrike (Pakistan) (2006)

So the list is very light over the past 20 years. But don't despair; just have a look at the two bottom links below and let the sunshine in.


Source here: List of United States military history events

More great reading here: COVERT ACTION Table of Contents

A good archive/reference site here: List of U.S. foreign interventions since 1945 - Covert operations

And we haven't even discussed various proxy wars we've conned our supposed friends to fight for us -- Israel being the proxy of choice these days. And then there's the coalition of the billing...


Be sure to start another thread about the benevolence of US foreign policy when you've had time to read through all this stuff.


wp

[and-justice-for-all]

30. No, but ShrubCo makes us look that way.nt

[stuntcat]

31. our consumption is

it's contributed more to the Earth-raping/mass-extinction that anyone else has.. which is changing, other people are catching up fast.
US has the most potential but also the most environmental deniers. So if you look at Evil the way I do then yes.. driving whole species to extinction is worse than anything else I can think of.

[Junkdrawer]

34. America allowed evil people to oppress the less powerful because...

we quietly thought it was in our best interest.

It's coming full circle. Karma's a bitch.

[Junkdrawer]

35. BTW: Seen this? "Are we the baddies?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsNLbK8_rBY

[mdmc]

37. war is evil

reducing illness, poverty, and ignorance is good. How does the USA rate?

[cherokeeprogressive]

38. no.

[AlCzervik]

40. no but the government sucks.

[MedleyMisty]

41. The human species is evil

I don't think that many of us set out to be evil. But the ones who do set out to be evil end up on top and all the unintentionally evil people follow them.

Asking if the US is evil in particular is somewhat similar to the people who pretend that hatred only exists in the southern region of the US and that the rest of the species is pure and unstained.

Humans are the same all over the planet - either evil or weak and ignorant and scared and so easily led by evil. And as I sit here and watch the world die the difference matters less and less and I hate and despise the weak and ignorant just as much as the psychopaths they enable.

And yes, the US is responsible for a rather large amount of the evil in the world. But only because that's how things worked out, not because of anything intrinsic to people who happen to live on the bit of land within imaginary borders created by humans. Just like the Nazis weren't intrinsic to people who happened to all live within the same imaginary borders - evil and the psychological conditions that lead to being a sheep for evil are part of human DNA and experience across the species. It happens constantly everywhere and will continue to happen until we kill ourselves and most of the rest of life on the planet.

If natural selection and evolution were at all conscious entities, I'd say that they fucked up big time with us.

[Jed Dilligan]

42. Yes. Not all countries were built on genocide and slavery

like England and America.

[Dreamer Tatum]

47. Not all, just the overwhelming majority nt

[Jed Dilligan]

49. Having experienced the genocidal madness of Christian Europe

does not equate to propagating it.

[Zynx]

53. Spain, Portugal, and France all were similarly guilty. Germany, we need not go there.

Russia, wowzas on so many regards. China and Japan in Asia are both notorious offenders in so many regards. We can go on and on.

[Jed Dilligan]

54. No disagreements with any of those.

There are many nations, however, who were more on the receiving end of things, and look where they still are today.

[Zynx]

72. I was referencing all nations who at one point or another had been great powers.

[ileus]

44. no

[devilgrrl]

46. No but some of hands that have cracked the whip sure are.

As the last 8 years have illustrated.

[Wiley50]

48. The masses are worshiping (American) Idol(s)

Nothing good ever came from that

[VotesForWomen]

56. no, and your america-hating is showing. it's embarrassing and not good for the dem party.

[cali]

59. LOL! I don't believe anything remotely this simplistic

about anything. I posted it in response to threads and posts here that more or less make that claim. I know too much history to ever believe such nonsense.

Way to jump to a stupid conclusion. I asked a question- I didn't make a statement.

[rockymountaindem]

57. No

Of all the superpowers in history, I think that the US has probably been the best.

[librechik]

61. No. Evil is a religious concept. The United States is a non religious state.

Criminal and immoral and depraved is another matter.

[Solon]

62. The United States is amoral, not necessarily evil...

in the classical sense. However, given its current position as a superpower in the world today, most of its acts in foreign policy have negative consequences for the people of the rest of the world. As a result, the United States is a negative influence on the world today. Similar to other empires during their heyday, when, at their greatest extent of influence and military might, they were also the most hated, and with good reason, might I add.

[LeftishBrit]

64. No, but Bush is.

America has more power than many other countries, so that whatever it does, for good or evil, affects more people.

In general, I don't believe in exceptionalism, either for or against particular countries. Countries are not good or evil as such; they are made up of a complex mix of human beings. Governments, however, can be good or evil.

Obviously I'm not American; but I would also say the same about the UK: the country is not good or evil as a whole; but it has had governments that were good, evil, and in between.

[mwb970]

70. You are correct.

The American people are no more good or evil than any other group of citizens. But the current American government is clearly evil by any definition I can imagine. My God. The wars, the lies, the corruption, the simple stealing (a presidential advisor was arrested for stealing $100 items from Target, for goodness sake!).

We have sociopathic criminals in charge of our country. Can you say the same? I hope not, for your sake. It's hell.

[LeftishBrit]

101. Ours are bad, but not as bad...

having said that, Blair was one of Bush's main overseas collaborators, and dragged his supposedly left-wing party headlong to the right. Imagine 10 years of Joe Lieberman in power, and you'll more-or-less get the idea. Brown is a bit better (at least he's not a messianic imperialist), but still pretty awful.

[some guy]

65. Heakte gives the best answer, in general.

at post 50.

However, "... is this country exceptional in its evils acts..." the US is the only country that has used nuclear weapons against another country. That was certainly a pair of evil acts.

[Mudoria]

75. That's a failure of an arguement but you can always

find it in any discussion of the "evil" US. Sure the bombs were dropped... what was the context and what were the alternatives. Would it have been better had they not been used? Of course. But the war ended in just a few days after Nagasaki without the full scale invasion of Japan. That would have been a bloodbath the likes of which has never been seen. And please, don't post revisionist bullshit from some modern historian with an agenda that Japan wanted to surrender. Wasn't going to happen..

[laylah]

66. No; however,

the current administration certainly is. Unfortunately, the world looks at us as guilty by association.

[Echo In Light]

67. Its govt's stated objectives are often cover for inhumane, anti-democratic ulterior agendas...

...and this is usually so thinly disguised with blatant, easily disprovable propaganda that it does make one wonder why more citizens don't seem to care about the crimes and mass atrocities that are carried out in their names, and with their tax $.

So, just "evil?" Of course not.

Capable of every evil known to man since the dawn of our time on earth? Surely.

[Kip Humphrey]

69. Hunters aren't necessarily evil, just aggressive and increasingly irrelevant..

[timtom]

71. Yes!

America is maybe 75% ignorant and ignorance = evil. The unexamined life is not worth living. The Kevin James debacle on Tweety's show is a glittering example.

[LanternWaste]

73. Not evil... not good.

Neither evil, nor good. I believe that we are simply amoral-- a nation that, for the most part has no conscience.

We ride the back of an economic system which dictates to us that we should, in our own best interests, take advantage of everyone we possibly can.

Our responsible stewardship of the planet has been re-interpreted to better suit that system too. Every anti-environmental act that is passed or acted upon is justified by "it will make our lives more convenient"

We are, for all intents and purposes a nation of Hedonists (Hedonism as defined by its classical philosophy); we willfully turn our back on the responsible attitudes of community, and brother- (and sister) hood. We righteously proclaim our cynicism and distrust as a badge of honor.

We go out of our way to shock other people and make them feel uncomfortable in the name of "individualism". We define ourselves through what we have, what we wear, and how we do our hair rather than who we actually are.

But, as long as we own the Biggest and the Baddest console gaming system, as long as we can tune out and listen to our I-pods rather than our neighbors, as long as we can can turn our air-conditioners on and pour a highball after work, as long as we justify to ourselves that "the reason I do it is good...", we simply will not care.

To me, the greatest indicator of an amoral nation is that the nation is filled with the satisfied and the careless.

[Poll_Blind]

74. Not exceptionally evil, no. Not in any respect that I can recall.

  The world is a lawless place and many of the places that have laws are just as lawless. Americans should call America to task because we've believed in the American Exception, that America was better than the other countries.

  That we'd set out to be an example for the rest of the world.

  Our inability to exemplify that higher behavior and our hubris to claim that we are still an example, though we have little to back it up, is our shame.

PB

[Dogtown]

76. We have evil leaders

If all we had were the one's that were thieves and drug-addicts, we could be somewhat complacent. In reality, most of our leaders do really bad things for the sake of personal gain, career expediency, or power lust.

Our country has committed genocide on members of it's own population.
For years we marginalized and disenfranchised segments of our population, those segments together including a majority of the population.

We've hosted wars for profit.

Even our very best leaders, FDR and Lincoln, trod on civil rights; Lincoln had draft-resistors slaughtered in the streets of NY and revoked habeas corpus, FDR interned the Japanese-Americans (but not the white German-Americans).

What good we've done has been disproportionately weak.


Our failure as a nation has been in allowing our democracy to be high-jacked by the incompetent. We aren't an evil people, we're just lazy.

[Burma Jones]

78. Every Nation is Evil

well, every Nation that survives...........

We are certainly less Evil than others, but, unless you're ready to allow yourself to be annihilated, you're going to have to have done some Evil somewhere in the mix.

[Echo In Light]

80. We all have blood on our hands. The question is, how does one address it within their life?

[bdamomma]

79. no just the people who are running/ruining this country for

the neo conservative nightmare agenda.

[Echo In Light]

82. I know what you mean, however, in a rep democracy, govt actions are done in ALL of our names

Hence the defining aspect of dissent/activism versus the authoritarian mindset of blind allegiance to leaders/experts.

[bdamomma]

85. I certainly understand that government actions does affect

all of us, which gets me even angrier that we as a people have not come together and stopped this, I may reflect how maybe other countries and their people react when they have unscrupulous people running their governments, they just unite and run them out. just my opinion.

[Diclotican]

81. NO

Cali

US are not Evil. But you have, for the moment a LEADERSHIP that is plain evil, and should have been arrested all as one. And tried as war criminals..

You can't blame 300 million people for what the leadership are doing. But you can blame the leadership, for what they are doing to the country of your... That is the big difference about it all

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language

[ensho]

83. yes - criminal not evil - evil is a religious word

the US is criminal

[bdamomma]

86. true with your interpretation of how the US is not evil but

criminal, evil is a religious term, and in my opinion , I wish religion would have stayed out of this whole thing, the ideological issue is just disgusting to me.

[alarimer]

84. Not always evil and not particularly exceptional.

Too much imperialism, though. Sometimes there are good intentions. But we have a tendency to intervene in countries (even under Democratic Presidents) against the will of their own people, to get rid of duly elected officials our government happens not to like.

The School of the Americas IS evil, however.

[bdamomma]

87. Just a suggestion I think this thread was very enlightening

and deserves some recs.

[ronnie624]

88. A concise essay on the concepts of good and evil,

which references one of my favorite authors, Stephen J. Gould. He had much to say about this topic. I highly recommend all of his books.

Herein lies the dilemma presented by concepts such as good and evil. Countless instances exist in which the terms can be antithetically altered between two observers. An excellent example from modern times is the rash of terrorist incidents that occurred on September 11th. One can think of few tragedies more horrendous than the genocide of thousands. Indeed, American sentiments ran highest following the massacre. Many dubbed the attacks as unforgivably evil.

However, as evil as the act was considered by most, others believed the exact opposite. News broadcasts following the incidents were filled with accounts of celebration in some countries. While many condemned the attacks as profoundly evil, others praised them as profoundly good. This provides the modern mind with undeniable proof of the subjective nature of good and evil. Such concepts cannot logically be considered human universals, or universals of any sort, if their perception can fundamentally switch from one individual to the next.

This string of logic provides a very real and very obvious conclusion. As Stephen J. Gould explicates, the application of moral values to natural things is “thoroughly inappropriate” (Jacobus 483). On the other hand, Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution has proven that human beings are intrinsically natural. In combining the two, one can see that questions of good and evil are just as inappropriate with regards to humanity. Proof of this assertion can be found in many sources, such as literature or recent history. Therefore, the only logical conclusion to all the data presented is that concepts of good and evil are ultimately subjective, arbitrary, and unnatural.

<http://www.projectparadox.com/personal/papers/good-versus-evil-the-great-debate.php>

[robcon]

89. NO. The U.S. is an exceptionally good country.

We have a nut as president, but the country is fine. The country is not its government, IMO, and certainly not its president.

[ronnie624]

94. The U. S. is guilty of some truly horrific crimes,

all supported by our tax revenue as well as our indifference and/or complacency, such as the slaughter of millions on the Korean peninsula and in Indochina; the toppling of governments in many parts of the world through covert activities and proxy wars; the subjugation and exploitation of entire populations in weak, resource rich countries for the benefit of our corporate and political elites; and most recently, the invasion and destruction of a country based on lies.

Using the term "exceptionally good" implies that the United States is somehow morally superior to many countries that have never committed any such acts as those listed above. What is it, specifically, that makes the U.S. an "exceptionally good country"?

[Sundoggy]

90. Simple answer: Do you always think in bumper stickers? n/t

[LucyParsons]

91. Yes, but Americans aren't.

nt

[Zynx]

96. What is a country except a collection of people within a common border?

[LucyParsons]

99. I was thinking more of the government.

Which some foreigners, especially, seem to confuse with the people.

[PVnRT]

97. No more than any other colonial power

If we are evil, then so are most European countries, Japan, China, hell, everyone.

A country itself cannot be evil, but their leaders can be, and we have had some bad ones.

[OneDemsConscience]

98. The Slaughter in Indochina Was Historically Unprecedented

But besides that the US doesn't seem worse than most Euro-centric imperial powers.

[Greyhound]

100. In concept, it is the greatest hope humanity has had for thousands of years.

In practice it has been solidly mediocre evil (far from the worst, but well into the spectrum of relative evil) for most of it's existence.

That answer your question?
:kick::patriot::kick:

[Phoonzang]

102. No. We're nothing special.

Unless you're I don't know...Andorra, you'll find any country has done tremendously horrible things in it's past.

[NoGOPZone]

103. Is it evil? Not inherently

is it exceptional? No, as others have shown, but I think we've done enough evil to make it difficult to claim accurately any exceptional morality.

[hunter]

106. The Empire is evil, and it will fall.

With hard work we can save what is good about the Republic while we discard what is evil.

[datasuspect]

107. in parts, yes

the issue is too complex to make categorical statements.

[BlooInBloo]

108. There's mommy love and there's adult love. Clearly mommy love of the US is untenable...

but adult love of the US is not.

[Fox Mulder]

109. That's actually not so simple to answer.

[Iggo]

110. "Evil"? Nah.

"Wicked"? Absolutely.