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“No on 8” – When Reactive Politics Become Losing Politics

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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:39 AM
Original message
“No on 8” – When Reactive Politics Become Losing Politics
<It pains me to describe it this way, but “No on 8” – like Michael Dukakis – blew a seventeen-point lead. Progressives were lulled into complacency by early poll numbers, and distracted by the Barack Obama campaign – even after it became apparent he would win.

The problem happened when the Prop 8 campaign—through blatant lies and deceit—changed the subject into gays and lesbians imposing their agenda on our elementary school children. Suddenly, the people who were “indoctrinating” people who have a “live and let live” attitude was the homosexual agenda. It became apparent to me a few weeks ago when I was phone-banking for “No on 8.” I spoke to a black woman in San Francisco’s Western Addition who was dead-set against gay marriage now that she had been scared into believing we were imposing our lifestyle on her. And when people are afraid, it’s hard to make them listen to facts—especially if they don’t know you.

One of the basic lessons in activism is to not react to a problem when it comes up, but to be pro-active and frame the agenda. It’s not like right-wing extremists haven’t used the “gay marriage will be taught in our schools” line before, and the campaign should have been ready to anticipate such attacks. As far back as 1998, the first ballot proposition to ban marriage equality in Hawaii had a TV spot with a small child reading a book about two fathers—and he then gets confused. The message back then for swing voters was the same message California swing voters got now—“will my kids have to learn about it?”

Another basic rule is to anticipate what strategies the opposition will come up with to lure voters, and to preempt them with your own overtures. Gay marriage supporters were not happy that Barack Obama said he believes marriage is “between a man and a woman,” but he rarely got credit for going further than any presidential candidate had gone before. He supports fully repealing the Defense of Marriage Act, and – more importantly – he came out against California’s Proposition 8. Knowing that Obama was going to win the state comfortably, “No on 8” should have stressed Obama’s opposition from Day One.

Instead, “No on 8” waited until the other side made their own hit piece that implied an Obama endorsement of Prop 8. By then, we were being reactive.

Finally, I did go to the “No on 8” campaign office in the Castro as often as I could—but quickly became frustrated at what they were asking volunteers to do. I was happy talking on the phone with swing voters—which was useful and effective—but they seemed more interested in having us do visibility in San Francisco, going to strongly liberal (even gay) parts of town to make sure our base knew they had to vote “no.” Rather than preaching to the choir, we were told this was useful because much of our base was confused—that some supporters think they’re supposed to vote “yes” on Prop 8 to affirm gay marriage.

I don’t doubt there were a few cases of gay people in San Francisco who were confused, and accidentally voted for Prop 8. But this appeared excessively anecdotal and reactive, when I was far more interested in being pro-active and effective in getting work done. Ironically, it turns out that a percentage of our opposition was equally confused—if not more so, which made the issue a wash. When I dropped “No on 8” literature in East Oakland, I ran into an African-American woman—who said she would vote “no” on Prop 8 because she “really didn’t want” gay marriage being taught in public schools.>

http://www.beyondchron.org/articles/_No_on_8_When_Reactive_Politics_Become_Losing_Politics_6262.html
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. Prop. 8 should have used lots and lots of straight celebrities
Edited on Thu Nov-06-08 01:44 AM by JDPriestly
in their ads. They would have had many volunteers. They should also have had lots of anti-8 preachers in their ads and quoted from Matthew 19 in which Jesus discusses people who are "eunuchs . . . in their mother's wombs."

The dialogue on gay rights has just begun. Remember -- African-Americans lost many, many battles before they began to win a few. It takes time. And time is on the side of equal rights for all.

On edit, I add that LGBTs need to continue to fight their fight with effective issue ads on TV.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
2. That's interesting. Looks like I was wrong about the black vcte
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. how were you wrong about the black vote ?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Well, the article says that the polling showed the election hinged on
the black vote. I've been having a hard time believing that. It just didn't seem possible that the numbers were there, for one thing.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. in the sense they they were a sort of "swing voter" when it came to
prop 8.

i guess if more whites had opposed it it could have failed also. but the whites who supported or opposed were mostly firm in their position.

what it comes down to in the end is the church. blacks and latinos are more likely to go to church(in california) and therefore be influenced by religion than others. the mormons who are also racist targeted these minority churches.

the same thing happened in 2004 when in Michigan and other states they targeted Muslims for their anti gay campaigns . these muslims were supporting Democratic candidates but that did not mean they were with us on the specific issues on the ballots.

i also think we failed when we did not make ads showing that our Presidential Candidate VP candidate, Bill Clinton, Al Gore etc opposed it.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. The nutcases framed the debate. We can't ever let them do that again.
Edited on Thu Nov-06-08 02:22 AM by sfexpat2000
There's another thing, too. We have to look hard at the numbers to make sure they are clean. I don't believe the numbers for L.A. County. If I were rich, I'd recount it. And I hope they have someone checking the chain of custody for those uncounted ballots sitting all over the state right now. It takes a certain profile to be a permanent absentee voter and those voters are probably with us.

The people behind this measure are corrupt hypocritical f#cks. We have to stop acting as if they are anything but that. The beyondchron writer is right. This isn't just a reasonable debate that can be answered in some kind of civilized way. It's anything but that, imho.

/oops



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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 03:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. I just learned that Yes on 8 had a robocall by MLK's daughter...

who knew that MLK had a Fundie daughter?! No on 8 should have promoted Obama's message, or some other respected black leader's, much earlier.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 03:57 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. must be that one that endorsed John McCain
i'm sure she didn't mention that in the robocall though.

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lies and propaganda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. No way! NO WAY!
Please tell me Jesus this isnt true?!
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. There is a certain phenomenon where...

the previously oppressed suddenly become the oppressors. I have seen this in the black community, the Jewish community, and even my own gay community. It is very sad that such a highly respected family in the realm of human rights is tainted by this.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
6. The "yes on 8" commercials were devastatingly untruthful.
They were intended to instill fear into less enlightened Californians, and I'm sorry to say worked for them.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Did you see they also used Obama on a flyer to claim he supported this POS?
Robcalls, too. These "religious" people are lying sacks of doodoo.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. I saw the no on 8 commercials with Obama and Schwarzenegger who opposed Prop. 8
I don't understand how this means to an end campaign can be justified with anything resembling Christianity. :mad:
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
20.  Schwarzenegger is a waste of a governor
instead of spending the last few days cementing his position on California voting, he wasted it paling around with almost certain loser John McCain. Heck I didn't even get a handy Arnold says voting guide. He's lost all his clout since running the state into bankruptcy.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 02:16 AM
Response to Original message
9. The votes have not been counted. What is with you people? there was no concession.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. The votes haven't been counted and in order to make sure
they are counted properly, we need a fix on approximately what happened here.

Remember that the people behind this bill -- or at least one powerful backer -- is involved with voting machines. We saw that they used all kinds of trickery in the campaign. Getting the votes counted is the most important reason to go over whatever information we have, imo.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. sf. Can you give me more info on this connection between prop 8 and voting machines?
there is a courge campaign collective call tonight "where do we go from here". the Courage Campaign put out a press release against our EP Task Force here in Los ANgeles, and for the registrar, when we denouned his plan to use "emergency ballots" which will be remade and counted in the canvas period with the provisionals. So they are anti-elction protection, but pro no on 8. I would like very much to bring up the elecitn issues with the no on 8 call. If there is a backer tie, please let me know!
thank-you. and please call in to the courage camapign's call tonight.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Howard Ahmanson Jr. Major @sshole.
Edited on Thu Nov-06-08 03:43 PM by sfexpat2000
Not only voting machines but the AP, too. So, the potential to screw with the vote counting AND the ability to spread a cover story.

Omg, robinlynne, the No on H8 peoople have conceded! The votes haven't even been counted yet.

If you talk to your friend, please tell them that the dirty tricks before the election + Ahmanson predict a measure of election fraud. No on H8 needs to talk to Brad at BradBlog. He's all over this.

:cry:
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. We have been calling no on 8 for 2 days day and nights!!!!!!!! 10 of us!
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. what company is AHmanson with?
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tjwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
18. I know...I am hearing way too much blame being passed on to the Latino and Black voters on this.
Edited on Thu Nov-06-08 04:08 PM by tjwash
The Mormons and Catholics bankrolled this, but it was ultimately the voters that had to decided it. One of the biggest "to blame" groups seems to be the so-called influx of Latino voters that allegedly flooded the polls to vote for Obama, and voted no on 8 because of their predominately Catholic background.

I have a little problem with this theory, in that if there actually was a massive influx of Latino voters that was able to swing the vote so heavily to the YES side of prop 8, then why was Prop 4; which was nothing but a backdoor anti-abortion proposition, as soundly trounced as it was Tuesday night? There was really no hint of a battle at the polls on 4. At all. Being from Cali myself, the one thing that Latinos in California are very passionate about, are the very vocal and fervent anti-abortion stances that the community holds. So if the "blame the Latin-Americans" theory was true, then 4 should have easily gotten passed as well.

No. I think that there are 2 possibilities. The first one, being that the ballot boxes were stuffed, and the voting was rigged. The second, is that there are a hell of a lot more bigoted assholes in California that we will admit to having here. Sadly, I am starting to lean to the latter, and am starting to think that the people of California are just that bigoted against GLBT's. Believe me, it sucks to have to admit that, but there it is. As much as the desire is to point the finger at a certain group of people, I can't. With the exclusion of the Gay and Lesbian voters, we can pretty much spread the blame for this one across all of the California voting demographic.

The thing is...it looked real promising on the runup to the election polls. Likewise, the exit polling looked good. Just makes one realize that the "Bradley Effect" is alive and well. We seem to have defeated it in regards to race, but it is alive and well, and working against the Gay community.
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
19. They should have run a competing prop to 8
that guaranteed civil marriage for all couple. I've found living in California the best way to beat props is to run another closely worded prop that has the exact opposite effect. Competing props generally fail or pass together. It's always better to run pro for something than to have to run against something. I.E. my home area pass both competing rezoning laws. I'd hate to be a builder trying to figure out which law to follow come January.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
21. yes, but THANK-GOD they saved the chickens...


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dkofos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
22. Sounds to me like the NO ON 8 people did a shitty job getting the wrong message out.
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