Does anyone have the actual senate records that state that the Obama

[Maraya1969]

did not vote for patial birth? I have a friend from for a long time who just wrote me and told me she was moving to Canada or Scotland and then she sent me some videos with people just talking.....no justification just accujations.


I found this: http://www.opednews.com/articles/When-your-family-believes-by-JC-Garrett-080926-170.html

but it does not have the actual vote. My friend is really upset and believe4 all the bullshit about Obmaa. I do know one thing and that is if a doctor is around he/she must try and save the baby because of their hypocratic oath.

I want to stay friends with this woman. We've been close for over 20 years and she helped me tremendously when I was coming off of valium and given no medications from the doctor to get me though

Any information will be appreciated, (oh I told her that Obama said in one of the debates that he is a proponent of a ban of partial birth abortions...apparently that was not enough

[BrklynLiberal]

1. Here is a place to start.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Barack_Obama_Abortion.htm

[smiley_glad_hands]

2. Its a faux pas, it never happened very often, and when it did, it was medically necessary.

Learn the facts, have your friend learn the facts. It was a trojan horse to erode women's rights.

There is no such thing as pro abortion/pro life, its repug framing. Its always been about controlling women's reproductive rights.

[CoffeeCat]

6. You said it so succinctly...

...and that's exactly what this whole "pro life" movement is about--controlling
women's bodies.

The most disturbing part of all of this--is that other women sign up for this. There
are so many women who are so distressed about "the babies" and they sign on to this
misogynistic, bizarre agenda.

I had a garage sale a few months ago, and a woman saw my Obama sign and commented, "Oh,
you're supporting Obama. I said that I indeed was, and I asked her who she was
supporting. She said, "The innocent babies, of course."

I really don't think that there's anything you can say to these people.

[NotThisTime]

3. The State of Illinois has it's own separate law stating that any child born alive should be treated.

This law in question he felt was the first step in taking away the ability for women to choose.

[CoffeeCat]

4. Here's my 2 cents..

It seems as if many anti-choicers are upset, because when Obama was in the state Senate--two times
the anti-choice hard liners brought up legislation that made it illegal to NOT save a baby who was
the victim of a botched abortion.

Obama stated during the debate--and others have said--that this legislation was ridiculous. No one
can NOT save a baby who is needing medical attention. That's called murder.

There are all ready laws on the books that cover and protect babies who are needing medical attention.

The anti-choicers craft legislation like this, to blackmail politicians, "Oh yeah, let's SEE YOU
say NO to protecting babies who are gasping for air on a table! We'll label you a person who hates
babies and wants to watch them die!" ...lo and behold that's exactly what they did.

I saw a video on YouTube that showed nurses holding a perfectly healthy baby, then sadly walking it
to a closet, and leaving it alone--presumably to die. The final slogan said something like, "This is
what Obama wants to do to babies." Awful, just awful.

Obama voted against that legislation because: 1.) Babies born alive are all ready protected by the murder
statutes. No doctor or nurse could decide to not treat a live baby. That's all ready illegal. But
don't tell these fanatics that...reality doesn't seem to be important. 2.) Anti-choicers try to use
abortion legislation like this to further outlaw abortions. They try to incrementally outlaw all abortions, and
laws like this are steps toward doing that. Politicians who want to protect a woman's right to choose,
see through these disingenuous tactics, and vote against this garbage.

I'm no expert on this subject. I'm sure more knowledgeable DUers will chime in and provide more
insight.

It's very sad that people actually think that Obama is a "baby killer." I feel sorry for these people.

[Hippo_Tron]

5. First of all, stop referring to it as "partial birth abortion"

"Partial birth abortion" is a manufactured term and issue by the right wing specifically aimed at being divisive. It refers to late term abortions which they claim are not performed for medically necessary reasons. They claim that women abuse the "medically necessary" clause and get abortions because they consider mental duress to be a medically necessary reason.

The truth is that no reputable doctor in their right mind would perform such a medically risky surgical procedure because the patient was under "mental duress" from carrying the baby to term. Women don't suddenly decide that they want to have an abortion after 7 months and for every 10 anecdotal cases of this that the right wing can find, in 9 of them the doctor would not perform that abortion without a good medical reason.

If this country has a serious infanticide problem I would be all for doing something about it. Fortunately we don't.

[Maraya1969]

8. I did mention the Hippocratic oath and how a doctor could not just let

a baby die. He or she could lose their license to practice medicine.

[Doctor_J]

7. Do believe and post about every lie the right wing tells about Obama?

The country will be much better off without your long time friend. Please tell her to take 10-20 of her fascist friends with her.

[Hekate]

9. Medically speaking there is no such thing as a partial birth abortion. Very rarely...

... a specialist may perform a Late Term Abortion.

Birth defects are the leading cause of infant mortality, not just of infant disability, and sometimes they die in the womb. If they don't come out on their own, they must be delivered--i.e., aborted -- or the mother will herself die of infection.

There are fetuses who have birth defects incompatible with life itself, such as anencephaly, in which most of the brain is missing. This is not retardation, this is 100% fatal. This condition in the fetus is not dangerous to the mother's life as such, but it is pretty horrible knowing you are carrying something that can only live as long as it is inside you. Two-thirds are born without a heartbeat and only 2% live as long as 7 days. Yet "pro-life" people would ban aborting such a fetus -- and indeed, the US military will not pay for such an abortion, on the grounds that the mother's life is not endangered. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/29398.php

There are pregnancies that threaten the woman's life. Eclampsia is a serious threat if it occurs. Runaway high blood pressure can lead to stroke; and kidney disease and heart disease are pretty incompatible with pregnancy.

Roe vs Wade has provisions for limiting access to abortion, provisions that are in line with accepted public opinion then and now. That is, the first three months are the woman's business, the second three are more risky and require more medical intervention, but up to this point the fetus is not "viable". Roe vs Wade DOES allow the State to limit abortions in the third trimester due to the likelihood of fetal viability, BUT there are exceptions for the life and health of the mother.

Barack Obama's record is clear. He has not -- and will not -- vote for any measure that limits abortions that does not also have a clear exception for the life and health of the mother.

In this he is in the MAINSTREAM of public opinion, legal opinion, and medical opinion. He is also in accord with every major world religion (except the fringe fundamentalists), in which the value of a woman's life is given precedence over that of a fetus which is (a) already dead or dying in utero, or (b) will kill her. Every culture in the world recognizes that a dead wife and mother is of no use to her family.

The trouble with accusations like the one your friend made is that they are in the category of what my fundy neighbor said to my husband: "Obama has not denied he is a communist." You can search forever for "proof" that Obama is not a communist (or "pro-abortion"), but you will never be able to satisfy such people.

It's like asking Joe Blow: "When did you stop beating your wife?" Mr. Blow never beat his wife in the first place, but he is left sputtering and explaining -- and the question has been put into the public mind.

My advice to you is this: If you truly value her friendship and good will, try to explain this to her ONCE. And then declare the topic off-limits.

Best of luck to you.

Hekate