I can understand the vegetarian lifestyle, but surely a vegan one is a misnomer?

[Deja Q]

First, my understanding of 'veganism' is that "no part, product, or byproduct of an animal is consumed, either directly or otherwise. Leavin' the critters alone, et cetera."

This is where the misnomer comes in: Fertilizer is used to grow crops. From either animal feces, or via petrochemical fertilizers. Petro = petroleum, and the current belief is that petroleum is the remains of 65 million year old dead life forms.

Animal droppings also contain seeds, which were eaten from a distance away.

Bees pollinate and cross-pollinate various vegetable life forms; the pollen sticking to their legs as they crawl on the flower. (most of which are probably not edible and at this point I'm becoming silly, but it's still valid)

In short, technically speaking, it is impossible to live a "vegan" lifestyle.

Where am I wrong?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan
(the first paragraph, as it currently stands, attempts to side-step the issue, but it takes little to infer the gross reality of it all.)

Veganism is a diet and lifestyle that seeks to exclude the use of animals for food, clothing, or any other purpose.<1><2> Vegans endeavor not to use or consume animal products of any kind.<3> The most common reasons for becoming a vegan are an ethical commitment or moral conviction concerning animal rights, the environment, human health, and spiritual or religious concerns.<4><5><2> Of particular concern are the practices involved in factory farming and animal testing, and the intensive use of land and other resources required for animal farming.

Various polls have reported vegans to be between 0.2%<4> and 1.3%<6> of the U.S. population, and between 0.25%<5> and 0.4%<7> of the UK population.

[flvegan]

1. Here we go!

:popcorn:

[noamnety]

5. troll!

Is that BUTTER on your popcorn?!!!

[flvegan]

7. Movie theater butter is vegan!

Nothing food-related in it at all, just chemicals. Yum!

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

17. Including something called "anti foaming agent"

That shit's scary. I used to work in a movie theatre.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

16. At least it's not a gay thread

:eyes:

[Dr. Strange]

18. I can't understand the 5gan lifestyle.

wikipedia.org/wiki/5gan

[damntexdem]

2. Yeah, the critters on the planets around Vega are all carnivores.

[pitohui]

3. you can have a goal even if you have not yet met that goal

"seeks to exclude" the use of animals is not the same as actually excluding their use 100 percent of the time

also for many vegans it's a diet, they will continue to use animals as pets/companions or service animals such as police, seeing eye dogs and so on -- so the blanket statement in that definition that they seek to exclude the use of animals could be an over statement for many -- it's really that they refuse to use animals FOR FOOD

[AllieB]

4. In early.

:popcorn:

This should be interesting.

[MNDemNY]

6. As a proud member of PETA, I do not understand this at all.

I love steak, and chops, and ribs, and roasts, and chicken legs, and scrapple, even spam.I will continue to enjoy them, daily. oh, and burgers and pulled pork, too.

[DJ13]

8. Im hungry

[ihavenobias]

19. Let me remedy that for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYvxbhIOuEo&eurl

But seriously, who has the desire to eat pork after this story? And hey, watching any clip from Fox News can you make you nauseous, so it's doubly bad!

:)

[SpiralHawk]

9. Stop licking that toad right now. Put it down and back away slowly.

Shun cheese & chitlines, and you will feel less dyspepticaly inclined in the morning.

[Recursion]

10. Not to pile on, but you forgot what's probably the biggest issue

Agriculture kills lots of animals by tilling up the earth; that same process destroys their habitats.

[Lyric]

11. I am not a vegan. However,

from what I understand, the point of veganism is to do the best that you can to have the least possible impact on animals. There are some ways in which avoiding ALL use of ANY animal products is pretty much impossible. But vegans go out of their way to make sacrifices and find replacements in order to consume the least possible amount of animal product, thus reducing their personal contribution to animal exploitation and suffering as much as they can.

There is no "purity test" for being a vegan. You do the best that you can. Nobody is walking along behind you with a measuring stick, waiting to beat you over the head with it if you miss a step somewhere. Just because absolute vegan perfection cannot be achieved does not mean that nobody should even bother to try.

[patriotvoice]

12. Yeah, just like "organic". Everything needs water, and all Earth's water is contaminated.

Even at the poles. Nothing's purely organic, and no one's purely vegan.

[TheKentuckian]

13. I've known some commited vegans but none has ever even discussed

fertilizer.

I'm thinking that if the animal exist then it will have to go poo and as such the use of the poo is not seen as a form of abuse. That's the case I'd go for anyway. As for me, as long as there is no swine then I'll dine.

[calmblueocean]

14. Morally, it's about the byproducts of animal torture and slaughter

Most vegans don't eat cheese, for example, because rennet, an enzyme from the stomachs of slaughtered cows, is used to make cheese. So the guiding ethic has to do with not supporting the torture and slaughter of animals. That's the yardstick vegans use -- at least the ones I know -- when measuring themselves. None of the examples you give seem meaningful in that light.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

27. No vegans eat cheese

Cheese is dairy, and vegans don't eat cheese.

Other than that, you're right.

[MazeRat7]

15. It's a movable feast... so to speak...

I was married to one for a while, it was interesting. I don't think she liked it much and was real happy to learn that moderation of consumption also saves animals. My analysis after the fact is that she was more vegetarian than vegan. That seemed to work for her and to some degree for me as well.

So I'll say again, it's not a black and white zero sum game. It will be a long time before there is no more factory farming and the best one person can do is to consume less of the products generated by those farms. Eco 101, less demand.

Peace,
MZr7

[Jim Lane]

20. So fix it!

I can see your point that there may be some fuzziness around the edges of the definition. Nevertheless, there's still a clear distinction between people who avoid only animal flesh and people who also avoid milk, eggs, etc. If you have specific wording that you think will improve the article's treatment of this point, go ahead and make the change, or suggest it on the talk page.

You've quoted the introductory section, which is supposed to be a summary. The body of the article does go into more detail. See especially .

[rug]

21. I went to a Hare Krishna temple in Brooklyn once for one of their Sunday feasts.

I was talking to a devotee about vegetarianism and reincarnation and asked about the bacteria on the food I was eating. He told me "You have to draw the line somewhere."

[Cleita]

22. For one thing you are stretching the concept of animal manure, which from

herbivores is the undigested plant material that passes through the animal. I could say the same for honey because it's flower nectar that passes through the bee, however, I don't think vegans eat honey. If you want to be a purist, you can use compost made from plant materials. I compost all my weeding, pruning and raking garden debris to use for fertilizer. Also, certain chemical components mined from the earth can be used in fertilizer. I think the same components are used to make gun powder and other explosives. I don't think they have anything to do with former organic materials but have always been chemical.

[ContinentalOp]

23. I don't understand the meat eating lifestyle.

If it's ok to slaughter cows, pigs, chickens, rabbits, turkeys and sheep for food, why can't we eat dogs, cats, horses, or parrots? And why not people for that matter? Your meat eating ideology is highly inconsistent.

[MineralMan]

25. In some place or time,

all of those are or have been part the diet of humans. It is a matter of custom here not to eat dogs, cats, horses, or parrots.

Dogs are eaten in some regions of Asia.
Parts of the large cats are eaten in China.
Horses are eaten in France and other places.
Parrots are eaten in Africa and Asia, and probably in South America. The common budgerigar's (parakeet) name means "pretty good eating" in the Australian aborignal language.

Humans have been eaten within the lifespan of people living today.

Customs among omnivores vary by culture. It's not inconsistent to prefer one sort of animal muscle tissue over another. For example, I enjoy mutton, which is unavailable in markets in the USA. It is widely eaten elsewhere and was a major staple in the USA as recently as the 1920s and even later. Most people do not like mutton. It is because it is no longer a commonplace.

Again, some people are omnivores. Others are not. It is a matter of choice and custom.

[MineralMan]

24. I don't see the problem...

Vegans eat what they eat. Vegetarians eat what they eat. The majority of folks eat what they eat.

Why is it of any interest to me what vegans eat, since I am not in that group?
Or vegetarians?

This type of discussion doesn't seem to have all that much validity, since it is non-vegans who are questioning the "purity" of the vegan diet. Why would they care?

Personally, I'm an omnivore, but I have no brief against people who are not. If I dine at a vegan's home, I will eat what is served. If a vegan comes to my home to eat, I will prepare a meal that is acceptable to the vegan, in order to be hospitable.

It's a ridiculous controversy.

[petronius]

26. Nicely said. If people have moral, social, economic, etc. arguments

in favor of a particular diet, I'm happy to hear and discuss them. However, trying to prove to a vegan that he's not 'really' a vegan is like scouring through a religious text in order to cherry-pick reasons to call a member of that religion a hypocrite. How someone chooses to live is up to them, and as long as they don't interfere with my ability to live the way I choose I say they should do what they want.

(Off topic, I always enjoyed your posts at FR - glad to see you over here...)