I would like to see Michael Vick released from prison early to a halfway house.

[IndianaJones]

He has cleared the last obstacle to early release with his guilty plea on state charges, and should be eligible to move to a halfway house up to 6 months earlier than his July '09 release date.

I know he is not a popular guy for many, but I think he will have paid his debt to society and deserves a second chance in the NFL. There are players that have done worse and been given that opportunity.

[Critters2]

1. Who's done worse? Define "worse". nt

[IndianaJones]

3. killing people. nt.

[MNDemNY]

5. How many murderers are currently playing in the NFL?

[Crazy Dave]

6. Who?

Who has been convicted of murder and is currently playing in the NFL?

[Critters2]

36. So there are killers playing in the NFL? Like who, for instance? nt

[mymessageboardid]

43. Leonard Little

[Goblinmonger]

45. Not convicted of murder.

Pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter.

[mymessageboardid]

49. Did I say murder?

"So there are killers playing in the NFL? Like who, for instance?"

Leonard Little - he killed someone driving drunk. Then was arrested for ANOTHER dui years later and got off. Amazingly he is still playing in the NFL.

[Goblinmonger]

56. OK, good point

In reading the thread I thought your response was to the one upthread about 2 posts which was "how many murderers are there in the NFL?"

Little shouldn't be in the NFL. It's ridiculous given what they kick others out for.

[Critters2]

50. There was nothing "involuntary" about what Vick did. nt

[IndianaJones]

52. Leonard Little was drunk and killed a woman while driving drunk. nt.

[Critters2]

53. Which shows poor judgement. But not the violent, sadistic intent of what Vick did. nt

[IndianaJones]

54. he was arrested for drunk driving again later...and served an 8 game suspension. nt.

[WillieW]

59. I totally agree with you.

He enjoyed every minute of it. I doubt that he suddenly was rehabilitated?

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated . . . I hold that, the more helpless a creature, the more entitled it is to protection by man from the cruelty by man" - Gandhi

[MNDemNY]

2. Only if his "halfway house" is a kennel.With lots of angry pit bulls.

Any NFL team that signs his sorry ass deserves the shit they will undoubtedly get.And, has he even been sentenced yet on the state charges? Fuck him.

[High Plains]

8. I guess this guy should just be tormented and villified for the rest of his life.

When he gets out later this year he, by definition, will have paid his debt to society. Not good enough for you? When will your thirst for vengeance be slaked?

This punishist impulse is a real sick aspect of American culture. Almost as sick as dog-fighting.

[MNDemNY]

10. "Almost".

[shireen]

30. I don't want vengeance, I want justice and rehabilitation.

i don't think spending a few months in jail is sufficient punishment for what he did. Torturing dogs, throwing weaker family pets into the ring to watch them getting torn up is beyond sickening and evil. Have you actually read about what he did to those dogs?

"This punishist impulse is a real sick aspect of American culture. Almost as sick as dog-fighting."

What's the alternative? Letting people get away with their crimes?


Our current prison system, run by for-profit companies, is despicable. Even tho' the incarcerated are being punished, they deserve more humane treatment, job training, and therapy. The goals should be changed from punishment to punishment & rehabilitation.

[Critters2]

34. I don't want him hung by nylon cords, or drowned, or electrocuted.

You know, the things he enjoyed doing to live animals. But neither do I think he should make millions of dollars and be held up as some kind of model. He should just fade into oblivion. Which is way better than he did to those animals.

[Crunchy Frog]

96. Yes, he should be. eom

[Crazy Dave]

4. Players that have done worse and given a second chance?

Examples?

Especially tell us which ones that committed something more violent and sadistic crimes that are currently playing in the NFL.

[IndianaJones]

16. 1. Leonard Little. nt.

[trumad]

20. Leonard Little is an example.

After a drunken birthday in 1998, Little crashed into and killed another motorist, Susan Gutweiler in St. Louis, MO. When tested, his blood alcohol level measured 0.19 percent, a level that exceeds the statutory level of intoxication of 0.08 in the state of Missouri.<5> Little received 90 days in jail, four years probation and 1000 hours of community service.


Little went on to play with the Rams after his release.

[Crazy Dave]

32. Not giving Little a free pass, sounds like he got off easy too but..

Most people under the influence commit acts involuntarily and use poor judgment where in Vicks case it was for entertainment, cruelty, gambling and it was all deliberately intentional

[Critters2]

35. Yep. No reason to believe he enjoyed his crime. Unlike Vick,

who tortured animals for entertainment. Vick is one sick mother.

[trumad]

91. Being under the influence is deliberately intentional ya think...

[Crazy Dave]

93. I don't know if you drink or know people that do but...

People don't normally say to themselves, "I'm going to get so drunk tonight, then I'm going to drive drunk so I can kill somebody", "Who wants to bet me money I kill somebody?.

But in the other sack of shit's case he deliberately thought, "I'm gonna' put this dog in with that dog and he gonna' kill him and make me $400 or I'll shoot the muthafucker myself".

Maybe you don't get it but I'm sure most of the others here do.

[trumad]

95. Um--- he drank to 0.19---that was deliberate.

He then got behind the wheel with 0.19 of alcohol... that was deliberate. Those deliberate actions led to the death of an innocent person.

Your rationalizations are goofy as hell.

[Crazy Dave]

97. And you are just plain goofy as hell

But happy Thanksgiving to ya' anyways :hi:

[kstewart33]

7. Why do we always give celebrities the big break?

Didn't he force the use of his untrained family animals for dog fights?

He's doing a year or so of jail time? Why is that too long a period of jail time?

Other than being a celebrity, why should he be released early?

What message does this send to other people who consider beginning an illegal dog fighting business?

[Crazy Dave]

13. I guess so people can use them in the fantasy football teams

:shrug:

[High Plains]

15. The big break? He was an NFL star; now he will be an ex-con.

He was convicted, sentenced, and before long, will have done his time.

He did a year in federal prison. Why is that not long enough?

He should be released early because he was a good boy in federal prison. That's how you get early release, not because of your celebrity status.

Vick's tale sends the message to other would-be dog fighters that if they get caught, they will go to prison. Not good enough for you?

[MNDemNY]

25. So do you contend that

an NFL team that signs him should expect no backlash?

[High Plains]

31. No, I would expect some backlash. I don't know if any team will sign him.

Although he was a very good pro quarterback. Should he not be allowed to play in the NFL if some team wants him? Why not?

[MNDemNY]

37. I do not advocate making it "illegal " to sign him, BUT, nor do I see

any reason why a team would bring such a shit-storm on themselves. The market will take care of that. He will not play again.

[Donnachaidh]

40. NO.

Any opportunity for him to acquire the same amount of wealth he had before should be shut to him completely.

If they hire him to clean toilets at the stadium, for minimum wage -- maybe.

[Johonny]

38. He was not a star

His QB rating was below average. He had one talent, he was a good running QB. However he would be 29 next season and it's questionable how much is left in his legs. RB generally fail after 30. Vick was only a star in the minds of fans of NFL highlight shows but never posted more than an adequate QB rating nor dpar. His biggest problem is the fact he was involved in gambling on these dog fights. The NFL looks very negative on players involved in illegal gambling. Even great but relatively clean NFL players have been suspended for gambling behavior. All in all I don't see any NFL GM that wants to touch Vick.

[MNDemNY]

67. Two words: ARENA FOOTBALL !!!

[greguganus]

82. nvm. n/t

.

[hlthe2b]

9. I'd like to see him sentenced to cleaning kennels

in a humane society facility for the next 20 years. If NFL takes him back, I hope they pay a price and I am betting that team will.

[OhioChick]

21. Good idea.

I saw a poll within the past month asking viewers if they'd have a problem with Vick rejoining the NFL and it overwhelmingly said "yes." This coming from a sports site.

I believe that many teams will view him as a liability.

[shireen]

11. i'm not so forgiving

What he did to those dogs was pure evil. He is totally devoid of empathy and understanding. In my book, that makes him a psychopath.

I don't care if he rejoins the NFL since I don't follow sports. Others may feel differently and take it out on his team if they rehire him. So, for financial reasons, they may not want him back.

[sandnsea]

12. Tookie Williams got more compassion

Yeah, sometimes I wonder what makes people tick. I don't know whether he needs to get out of prison before June, but he certainly deserves a second chance in the NFL whenever he does get out. I thought that was the core value of liberalism, second chances, third chances, whatever it takes to help people have a quality life.

[MNDemNY]

19. He is free to play, any team that signs him must deal with the rath.

I do not see that happening, I hope he paid attention in school, and can find gainful employment elsewhere.

[sandnsea]

28. Seriously, serial killers get more compassion

This is a sick thread and shows that liberals have no more compassion than anybody else and are just as bloodthirsty for revenge, er justice, when it involves something they care about. It's bizarre.

[MNDemNY]

33. I don't think an NFL team would sign a convicted serial killer, either.

I hope he finds a job, put to infer that he has another chance coming with pro sports is just silly.That ship has sailed.

[sandnsea]

41. Wife beaters have gotten a second chance

He isn't a serial killer, that's the point. And this kind of hypocrisy is why so many people scoff at the left when they advocate to end the death penalty or improve prison conditions. Because when it comes to something they care about, all of that compassion goes right out the window.

[MNDemNY]

63. You post as if you feel the NFL...

is under some "obligation" to give him a second chance. That is absurd.

[sandnsea]

65. No I didn't, not at all

I expressed a simple opinion, with a lot less animosity than any of the other opinions in this thread.

[Johonny]

14. As far as I can tell

He is not a danger to me or society at large so prison is an extremely costly place to keep him. As for the NFL... well by all measures he wasn't that good a QB before he went into prison and it's doubtful he got better sitting in prison. It's not clear he's all that valuable to an NFL team that ia GM I'd want him on the team given the clear baggage he comes with. QB's that can post a 75 QB rating and a below average Dpar aren't that rare.

[RobertSeattle]

17. Saw this just a few days ago at Smoking Gun

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/1124081vick1.html?link=rssfeed

More Michael Vick Barbarism Bared
USDA report details how football star killed pit bulls, lied to FBI
NOVEMBER 24--In the most disturbing account yet of Michael Vick's dogfighting operation, a federal investigative report details how the disgraced athlete killed pit bulls by hanging them from a nylon cord nailed to a tree and drowned others in a five gallon bucket of water. Quoting confidential witnesses and several of Vick's cronies (all of whom, like the former NFL star, pleaded guilty to federal criminal charges), a United States Department of Agriculture report portrays Vick as a heartless enthusiast of barbaric pit bull fights. Excerpts of the USDA report, which was prepared by the agency's inspector general, can be found on the following pages. Along with killing underperforming pit bulls, a government informant told investigators that Vick twice placed family pets into the ring with pit bulls because he and his cohorts "thought it was funny to watch the pit bulls...injure or kill the other dogs." Purnell Peace, who was convicted along with Vick, told federal agents how he, Vick, and a third man had to drown one dog after it did not die when they tried to hang the animal. After Vick agreed last year to plead guilty to a conspiracy charge, he was interviewed by federal agents and claimed that he "never actually killed a dog," though he admitted watching his friends hang, shoot, and electrocute pit bulls. But after failing an October 2007 FBI polygraph test "as it related to the killings of the dogs," Vick recanted his denial and "admitted taking part in the actual hanging of the dogs." Vick, 28, is expected tomorrow to plead guilty to state dogfighting charges in Virginia and receive a three-year suspended sentence. The former Atlanta Falcon quarterback is serving his federal sentence in a Leavenworth, Kansas prison, and is scheduled to be released from custody next July

[Frustratedlady]

Only a year?

Animals and children. They have a lot of protection, don't they? Sicko!

[cliffordu]

18. LOL. Nice try.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

22. Has he had psychological counselling?

I ask because his crime is such that I worry he has not realized that his behavior is wrong and is doing something about changing or curbing it. Remember that a lot of serial killers started out mistreating animals.

[WillieW]

23. NO, NO he deserves lots more time

The man is an animal of the worst kind. I hope that he has a big cell mate called Bubba that really, really likes him.

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated . . . I hold that, the more helpless a creature, the more entitled it is to protection by man from the cruelty by man" - Gandhi




<a href="" target="_blank"><img src="" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[cliffordu]

24. Conversely, we could have someone give him a colombian necktie.

[WillieW]

92. That is too quick - he should suffer like the dogs did and still do

[LanternWaste]

26. I hope Vick never fades from public consciousness...

I hope the NFL stands up to any popular pressure in having the dolt re-instated into the NFL.

Further, I also hope Vick never fades from the public consciousness-- he's a great reminder to people that even a person with all the advantages he both worked for and was given did absolutely nothing to prevent him from advertising himself as who he truly is-- a person who both enjoys and profits from the abuse of animals...

[codjh9]

27. No fucking way. Have you read all the shit he said & did?

[Captain Hilts]

58. He's one sick puppy. nt

[juno jones]

29. Sorry. I don't goive a crap if he never plays football again.

In fact it would serve that scumbag right. He is a sadist. I do agree with the halfway house so he can be supervised AFTER serving his regular sentence. Then perhaps a label similar to sex offenders, so he can go to everyone in his new neighborhood and deescribe what he did and let people know not to leave their pets around him.

What is this shit that we have to give celebs a break just because they're famous and can still make someone some money?

edit to add: He wasn't just caught betting on the dogs or watching fights, he ran a fighting operation. Big difference. By rights he should have gotten more time, we're talking conspiracies to commit crimes here, big money and big exposure.

[Hoyt]

39. I love dogs, cats, etc.

But, I keep seeing Chris Rock commenting on a photo of Sarah Palin holding a dead, bleeding moose's head while her little kids look on and smile. Rock says something like, "and . . . . . . . they put Michael Vick in jail."

I hope he's given a chance to do something with his life. And I think he will.

[ecstatic]

46. yep nt

[Goblinmonger]

51. Bravo!

But dogs are pets and moose aren't :sarcasm:

[greguganus]

83. The moose wasn't put in a cage with lions and ripped to shreds

The moose wasn't hanged by the neck and drowned in water.
Last time I checked, moose hunting was legal.

[MadHound]

86. Let's see, what Palin did was legal,

And compared to dog-fighting, and the other sadistic things Vick did to dogs, it is a quick and humane death.

Vick on the other hand, hung dogs, fought dogs, drowned dogs, laughing and grinning all the while. In fact he made money off of this via gambling. Everything he did was illegal, not to mention cruel and heartless. Having worked animal, specifically pit bull rescue, Rock has no fucking clue as to what he's talking about and needs to shut the fuck up and stop showing off his ignorance.

As far as Vick's sentencing goes, frankly I think he's getting the star treatment concerning the state charges. He needs to do both the federal and state time, like most other non-celebrity felons have to do. As far as getting back into the NFL, good luck with that. Vick's a PR disaster waiting to happen, he's out of playing shape, and is on the downside of a career that was, despite the hype, never better than mediocre.

Vick needs to quietly fade into the woodwork, and pursue a career in something other that isn't sports related.

[Marrah_G]

42. I have no problem with him getting out 6 months early, but get back his million dollar job?

No fucking way- his punishment is the loss of his future millions..... otherwise I would want him locked up for decades.

I have no fucking pity for him at all.

He had a once in a lifetime shot. A shot most guys would give a limb for. He had everything. Yet he threw it all away through over greed and a sick adrenaline rush.

I would never spend another dime on the NFL (and I am a fan) if they were to allow him back.

[flvegan]

44. Flamebait/bullshit.

Me/unsurprised.

[pecwae]

47. Seconded.

[JANdad]

61. thirded...

Classic Hit and run...stir-up-the-shit poster this one is...

[greguganus]

84. 4th. Truly flamebait, but it's good to remember what this sicko did. n/t

[AndrewP]

48. I know! We need him back for our fantasy football teams!

:sarcasm:

Vick can go fuck off

[KamaAina]

55. Alas, if he does return, it probably won't be with the Falcons

How I'd love to see him return to the Superdome, home of their bitter divisional rivals the Saints. Imagine the Dome packed with dogs in Saints doggie sweaters (yup, there are such things), and then after the announcement "For Atlanta at quarterback, from Virginia Tech, number 7, Michael Vick." you'd hear Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! and then this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He82NBjJqf8

But wouldn't you know, their owner, who, considering he owns the Falcons, actually seems to be a decent guy, wants no part of him. :eyes:

[Captain Hilts]

57. Do you understand the psychological underpinnings of cruelty to animals? I guess not. nt

[underseasurveyor]

60. Oh great idea Vick could be the poster-boy for honorable sportsmanship

:eyes:

[MNDemNY]

64. Yes, his behavior at VT sets him up well for that.

[undeterred]

I would like to see him locked in a pen with pit bulls.

[Genevieve]

98. I would also like to see him locked on a pen with pit bulls.

[undeterred]

62. I would like to see him locked in a pen with pit bulls.

[rvablue]

66. All I know is that any NFL team that signs this sadistic, greedy man is going to take

a lot of shit for it.

Bonne chance!!

[Missy Vixen]

68. No, thanks

The NFL welcoming him back into their ranks would announce their approval of dog fighting and torture.

Then again, Roger Goodell's all about anything that brings profit, so I'm sure he'll be able to conveniently ignore his "player conduct policy" yet again. :mad:

Julie

[IndianaJones]

69. do you feel that allowing Leonard Little back announced their approval of drunk driving? nt.

[Missy Vixen]

72. Yes

They've also reinstated multiple players arrested for DV complaints this year as well, including one of our (the Seahawks) starting DT's. I'm not happy about this. I love football, but I'm sick of Goodell's excuses.

The NFL has an interesting relationship with alcohol. They claim they want to clean things up, but if they really wanted to prevent those attending games from drinking and driving, there'd be a two-beer limit or something. They also wouldn't accept hundreds of millions in sponsorship from beer companies. Of course, this is IMHO.

Julie

[tkmorris]

90. Not exactly

It did announce though, that if you can play football well enough you can get away with anything.

It would seem you approve of that sentiment.

[hlthe2b]

70. So do a poll here on DU.... if you dare.

I'll be your first "hell no" vote. (to either question--early release or playing again in NFL)

[emilyg]

77. I'll be the second Hell no vote.

[mondo joe]

71. I don't think he should serve a more than standard sentence - but I don't see any reason for early

release either.

[natrat]

73. yea? i'd like him to be thrown in a cage and ripped apart by trained,viscous fighting dogs

[Tim4319]

74. This is my take and many people will not agree.

But yes, there things that has happened a whole lot worse than what Vick did.

Does anyone remember Amadu Dialo? The kid who was shot at 51 times my the NYPD and the officers got off. No outrage, outside of the black community.

How about, Sean Bell, the man who was hours away from his own wedding, gunned down by NYPD and the officers got off. No outrage, outside of the black community.

Then there is Katheryn Johnston, a 92 year-old grandmother killed by the Atlanta PD, when they kicked in her down and shot her in her own house. APD lied and said she shot first. Again, no outrage outside of the black community.

I really do hate to bring race into this argument, but it so crazy to hear how people are so upset about what Vick did to some dogs, but you hear nothing from them when black people are killed in cold blood. I started plenty of threads discussing these very topics above, but I have only received only a small fraction of responses of what a Michael Vick post would have received.

Lastly, a 2006 study showed that PETA killed 97% of the dogs left in their care. The reason was said to be "damage control".

In a Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services Online Animal Report, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) reported that in 2006, they took in 3,043 animals that were surrendered by their owners.

Of these 3,043 animals (1,960 cats, 1,030 dogs, 52 other companion animals, and 1 chicken), the organization reported that 2,981 animals were euthanized. The report filed by PETA shows that only 2 cats, 8 dogs, and 2 companion animals from the 3,043 animals were adopted out. This means 1,942 cats, 988 dogs, 50 other companion animals, and one chicken were euthanized which makes PETA’s euthanization rate 97%.

http://www.itchmo.com/report-from-peta-shows-97-of-animals-in-their-care-in-2006-euthanized-4542

[IndianaJones]

75. I agree with much of what you say. nt.

[flvegan]

78. I love Consumer Freedom talking points

posted by people that know Jack Fucking Shit about PETA's operation.

[McCamy Taylor]

76. I would like to see a WHITE pro athlete targetted by the Bush DOJ for anything.

By anything, I mean some crime that federal prosecutors do not usually prosecute, since it is generally considered a matter for state or local law enforcement.

I would also love to see them entrap a WHITE celebrity and then throw the book at him and allow all of his Black celebrity friends (who were engaged in the same crime) to makes deals in which they testify against him in exchange for immunity.

You think you can do that before Christmas, Mukasey?

[Pavulon]

79. He is black??He just looks like an asshole to me

dog torturing cruel asshole. Fuck him and fuck his career. He is done and will never play in the NFL again.

Maybe an arena team.

[dsc]

99. Cheech Martin might think he fits that bill

[greguganus]

80. Vick should serve his full sentence and never be allowed back in the NFL, CFL or any other FL. n/t

[cobalt1999]

81. Only if he has to donate 75% of his NFL earnings to animal shelters.

That way he can get out early, start earning millions, AND start helping animal shelters. That would be my condition for early release. 75% goes to animals.

[okieinpain]

85. I wasn't going to make any comments but I saw one where

the poster thinks vick will never play in the nfl. well to that I have to say "nutts", he will definitely play again, not sure for how long because he isn't a passer, but oh yeah he's going to play.

[ColbertWatcher]

87. Considering that most of the members of the Bush Administration are still free and ...

... all may even be pardoned, I have to agree.

Although, he has a lot of work to do to earn the trust of the public.

[Fire1]

88. Hell No! And I don't care what color he is.

[Frank Cannon]

89. I, too, would like to see him moved to a halfway house

that's halfway over the edge of a cliff.

[ismnotwasm]

94. I think he should be sentenced

To community service at a no kill shelter in a deprived neighborhood for about 5 years. If he's not a sociopath, we'll see how he feels about fighting dogs after that. The NFL I don't care about.