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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 02:04 PM
Original message
Kidnapped, Tortured, Raped, Her Children Taken Away (and killed?) Our CIA??
Edited on Wed Dec-10-08 02:05 PM by leftchick
This is the worst story I have read yet on the rendition and torture program. All I can say is God Forgive America.

:cry:




Dr. Aafia Siddiqui


http://counterpunch.com/lendman12102008.html

Dr. Aafia Siddiqui - "Prisoner 650"

A brief word about Aafia. She's a highly educated researcher with a doctorate in genetics from MIT. She mysteriously disappeared from Karachi in March 2003 with her three children, after which Pakistani officials denied any knowledge of her whereabouts. It was later learned she was at Bagram under draconian conditions with her children (aged one month to seven years). She's incarcerated now in New York, but it's not known if her children are still alive and if so where they're held.

Human rights organizations, British journalist Yvonne Ridley, and MP Lord Nazir raised questions about her detention, and, according to Nazir "she (was) physically tortured and continuously raped by the officers at the prison" - for over four years. Chalk it up to "Western values" that (in a post-9/11 climate) view Muslims as sub-humans to be subjected to unlimited degradations.

Ridley called Aafia a "grey lady" "because she (was) almost a ghost, a spectre whose cries and screams continue to haunt those who heard her. This would never happen to a Western Woman." It did to Aafia, and her ordeal continues under US detention.



‘The Most Dangerous Woman in the World’

http://draafia.org/2008/11/28/the-most-dangerous-woman-in-the-world/

http://draafia.org/

Siddiqui says she was kidnapped that day, on her way to the airport. She says her abductors took away Ahmed, Mariam and the baby. The last thing she remembers, she says, was receiving an injection in her arm. She says that when she regained consciousness she was in a prison cell, which she believes was on a military base in Afghanistan, because she heard aircraft taking off and landing. She claims that she was held in solitary confinement for more than five years, and that it was always the same Americans who interrogated her, without masks or uniforms. For days, she says, they would play tape recordings of her children’s terrified screams, and she claims that she was forced to write hundreds of pages about the construction of dirty bombs and attacks using viruses.

The baby, Suleman, was taken away immediately, she says. They showed her a photograph of Ahmed, the seven-year-old, lying in a pool of blood. The only one of her children they occasionally showed her, she says, was Mariam — as a vague outline behind a pane of frosted glass.

Could this story be true?

Several Pakistani media outlets did report her arrest. A year after her disappearance, Dawn, a daily newspaper normally considered to have good sources, quoted a spokesman from the Pakistani interior ministry saying that Siddiqui was arrested in Karachi and later handed to the Americans. On April 21, 2003, the US television network NBC ran a story about Siddiqui’s arrest on the evening news.

Pakistani intelligence sources report that Siddiqui was in Pakistani detention until the end of 2003 and that her son Suleman fell ill and died during that time. It is known that terrorism suspects often spend a period of time in the country before being turned over to the Americans. According to the Asian Human Rights Commission, there are 52 secret prisons in the country, into which thousands of Pakistanis are believed to have disappeared since the beginning of the war on terrorism.

A number of other prisoners held at Bagram Air Base, the site of the most important US detainee camp in Afghanistan, say they heard a woman screaming. Some claim two women were there. The woman was nicknamed the “gray lady of Bagram.”


Brit female scribe says Dr Aafia’s illegal detention a violation of int’l law

http://www.topnews.in/law/brit-female-scribe-says-dr-aafia-s-illegal-detention-violation-int-l-law

Dr Aafia SiddiquiKarachi, Nov 5: A leading female British journalist has reportedly said that the new US President should close various torture cells, including Guantanamo Bay, where, she added, the condition of female inmates was miserable as they were abused, both physically and sexually.

Strongly taking up the case of Pakistani neuroscientist Dr Aafia Siddiqui, who is languishing in a US jail on “terror” charges, Marium Evon Raidley, the Brit journalist, said, “the illegal custody of 36-year old Dr Aafia Siddiqui is a blatant violation of international law”.

Dr Siddiqui’s whereabouts have been uncertain since 2003. According to Amnesty International, Dr Siddiqui and her three children were apprehended in Karachi in March 2003, after the FBI issued an alert requesting information on her location earlier that month.

Dr Aafia and her 12-year-old son were arrested in Ghazni, Afghanistan, on July 17 and American officials accuse her of trying to bomb the residence of Ghazni’s provincial governor.

Dr Siddiqui is a Pakistani national and if there are any charges against her, she should have been tried in Afghanistan, the Daily Times quoted her as saying while addressing a press conference in Karachi.

A new man in the White House might make a difference, amid increasing pressure from the American public, she said and added: “I do not believe that the American people approve of the policies of the Bush administration.”
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. kick
Not a surprise to me. Sadly.
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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well, they did it to other children of "persons of interest"
I want to see everyone from Bush on down sitting in a dock in The Hague.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. They're denying having her for some years and now, they say she's not competent
to stand trial.

Robert Mueller MUST go.


Mystery of Siddiqui disappearance

By Syed Shoaib Hasan
BBC News, Islamabad

Aafia Siddiqui
Some reports say Aafia Siddiqui was part of an al-Qaeda sleeper cell

Aafia Siddiqui, whom the US accuses of al-Qaeda links, vanished in Karachi with her three children on 30 March 2003.

The next day it was reported in local newspapers that a woman had been taken into custody on terrorism charges.

Initially, confirmation came from a Pakistan interior ministry spokesman.

But a couple of days later, both the Pakistan government and the FBI publicly denied having anything to do with her disappearance.

Two days after Aafia Siddiqui went missing, "a man wearing a motor-bike helmet" arrived at the Siddiqui home in Karachi, her mother told the BBC.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7544008.stm
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. this is the worst case I have read about yet
I can not imagine the hell she is going through. I can not imagine having my children including and infant ripped away from me. Then to be raped and tortured. She is most likely insane now so no charges will be filed. OMG this makes me so sick.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
52. Insanity isn't considered a defense anymore
Look at Jose Padilla- I'd be surprised if he even knows his name anymore. They were quite happy to have him stand trial and be crucified for their amusement.

Welcome to Rome, where you can be fed to the lions at any time.
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Cults4Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. Social justice... backburnered until further notice.
Because we cant do more than a few things at once here.
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. I`m so sickened by this.
Where in hell is the outrage over Bush`s pro-torture policy? I mean, if mainstream media find the Illinois governor story so noteworthy, surely one of them should feel compelled to report on Dr. Siddiqui!
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. These stories only see the light of day on sites like this or in foreign nations. That's why
there's no outrage in America. All we see are scary dark-skinned men with beards in clean orange jumpsuits being lead to and from their taxpayer-provided meals and motel rooms.

Corporate media.

This is sickening.

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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. Please, don't pretend the CIA wasn't doing this before Bush...
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #19
35. no shit
that's why the dems don't seem to care about seeking justice - GWB was not the one that began and utilized extraordinary renditions.
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #35
85. That's right. Rendition started under Clinton. ...n/t
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irislake Donating Member (967 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #19
40. Under Bush government
it was just more blatant. Americans believe in a lot of fairytales about their country, alas.
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. Monsters.
They need to be hounded back under the rocks they crawled out from.
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HillbillyBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. These are the same folks that brought us the economic crash, the
the death of middleclass, bushco, ronnyraygun. Under rocks is not good enough, stoning maybe that would be good enough. Time to start sharpening pitchforks and making torches.
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I've accepted the fact that these folks will always exist.
The best we can do is keep them away from any position of power or influence.

This the fight that has always gone on, and it will continue to go on forever.

:hide:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
93. NAZIs.
These war criminals crawled over here after World War II. They were the invited and honored guests of Allen Dulles of CIA and John McCloy of the Department of State. They formed the backbone of the Cold War, in addition to working to destroy America.
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. .
:cry:
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. Never forget, we're the good guys. K&R
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
10. K&R We should never forget what this evil administration has done.
:(
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
12.  leftchick
leftchick

If this is true...And I do not doubt it can be true... Then US have learned a lot from the old masters... In Soviet Union, Peoples Republic of China.. North Korea and some other nice country who you once in fact was claiming to be the "evil". The "Axes of evil" you know.... Who tortured, killed and "disappeared" people who they doesn't like


How low this country of you have fallen..... Now you are part of the same "axes of evil" mr Bush once claimed to work hard to fight, and liberate.. in fact US are no better than the Regime of Saddam Hussein, who also used torture, both at parents and children.. And now US are doing the same.. Because everything this thugs who are doing this, are doing it in the NAME OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.. And even that you can claim this is not what America are about.. This IS what the rest of the WORLD are seeing this. And specially in the Arabic World they genuine believe now, that US are an evil country, who torture, murder, and have false claim to liberate the iraqi and Afghanistan's people.. Liberate them for their life that is..

How the mighty have fallen.. Even Obama should have problem with this... He must be a super hero to clean up all the stain that this regime of Mr Bush have managed to put to USA...

How sad this is.. How horrible sad this is:cry: :cry:

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. Your English is just fine
And I thank you for an opinion outside the US. I hope you realize there are literally millions of us who are so ashamed, shocked and enraged by this administration. But the sad fact is, the US has done horrible things like this for decades all over the world. Most covert, some not so much. But they always claim it is about "security, freedom, democracy" Take your pick.

It is a terrible cycle that has to end. Given the hawks Obama has surrounded himself with in foreign policy, I am not very hopeful. Can I come to Norway??

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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #20
50. leftchick
leftchick

Yes I know it is millions out there, who are shamed, shocked and enraged by this administration that... And the case is the same in the rest of the world.. You are not alone even if it sees like that in the dark ages of mr Bush and the bandits.. The whole claim of defending security, freedom and democracy and using torture is just so stupid and criminal that I do not know.. If US was indeed there to make a country better and build a country with security, freedom and democracy, they have to play by some of the rules the US was so instrumental of make possible after World ware TWO.. Then some of the americans understand that to stop what happened in ww2 they have to have rules, who will defending the weak, the civilians and they who couldn't fend for them self in a war.. Or was not part of military formations...

Yes it is been known for many decades that US have been using torture, and murders in the "dirty" wars.. South America was once the prime targets from "the school of americans".. The same is the case in part of Asia. Who US was treating more og less as their own home jard, but today the fact is so much open, and into the light.. Today the US can not more claim to not know, when stories like this is making headline.. And we all know that this administration you have had for 8 year, more og less openly have supported that type of things.. And even claimed once and twice that torture was an important way of getting information.. Even that every expert who was coming out after the case broke (2004 Abu Girab) have told that it is not an important way of getting information. In fact the intelligence can get far better information by behave decent, and to treat their prisoner with some respect.. In the end they are talking anyway.. All this torture and murderers the US soldiers have been doing, is more from the point of REVENGE than of the point of "protecting the security of US".. And in the last 8 year, the revenge have been the norm in Iraq, and in Afghanistan. If anyone still believe the Abu Girab pictures was some bad apples who going the wrong way, then they are wrong.. Soldiers are seldom given the freedom to do this type of behavior without the approval from high ranking officers.. The whole concept of soldier do as they please, even in a prison where the prisoners are pretty well in the hand of the guards.. And I do not believe even the high ranking officers have not doing this without approval from higher up.. Like the Vice President, The President. The Pentagon and its like..

Well, yes it some hawks there in obama government that is true.. But compared to the republican government of mr Bush I would claim them to be more normal than the Bush administration.. And the next administration have to much problems inside their own country, to be to warlike abroad.. US can not fight more wars today than they already is doing.. And Obama have pointed out one important thing, he want out of Iraq.. And even that the next president without doubt want EU/NATO to get some involvement into Iraq I doubt they will manage to get EU/NATO into there.. Not the "old europe" as mr Rumsfeld once claimed us to be.. And the "New europe" have not the resources to get into a shooting war on their own.. Not if US was to pull out most of their forces.. Even that many was to came to Afghanistan and not home.

And even Afghanistan would be a hard time to clean up now.. The Taliban, the War Lords and others have managed to almost cripple the government in Kabul.. I would take a long time to make this possible to be a stable peacefully country if not something is been doing very soon.. If US had just put the foot of th ground in 2002-03 instead of going to Iraq. Then maybe, just maybe Afghanistan had been a lot more stable and safe for the afghans..

It is amazing that the US of 1945 managed to build up the Marshall plan, who in many cases "saved" the Western Europe when it came to the first couple of winters after ww2. The germans of 1945-48 was almost starving, and the most of the country was been destroyed by the war.. A decade later, West Germany was more or less rebuild, even that it would take many year to fully repair everything..
Why can't US manage to do the same once again?.. If the US, with their friends in Europe (I really doubt Saudi-Arabia would give two cents to Afghanistan) in the aftermath of 2002 BOMBING had managed to sent resources to rebuild some of the ruined city's, then maybe the Taliban have not been that dangerous anymore..

You are welcome to emigrate to Norway. As I know it, it is rather difficult to emigrate to Norway, but if you are willing to go true the proses, you would be welcome here;). We are at least, a very peacefully little corner of the world;)

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. I am impressed
You know US foreign policy history much better than the majority of americans. They believe the propaganda coming through their corporate owned media to be true. It is truly tragic how dumbed down americans have become. Of course it is by design because it is much easier to manipulate a population into foreign interventions if they are being spoon fed false information . Very sad.

I am probably too old to emigrate but I will most certainly suggest it to my sons. Thank you for the excellent posts. :)
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wolfgangmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #54
76. Not to put too fine a point on it but most of us foreigners know more
about US actions and policies than Americans do. Not only is your media lame, but your people don't want the truth. And as it has historically happened to someone else, you did not care.

Perhaps now that your government is starting to target you, that will change.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #76
82. I am very aware of the suppression and manipulation of information here
Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 04:48 PM by leftchick
That was my point. Indeed there will soon be a day when we can no longer ignore it.
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #76
105. wolfgangmo
wolfgangmo

True, as long as it have happend to "others" it have never been the interst of the regular "joes" in US.. And as long as you have been grown up to belive that Your country are the best in the world, and that the rest of the world have to thank YOU to be free, then you do not care to mutch to know about how your country have been behaving the last 60 year or so in our part of the world..

When Britneys new habbits, are more important to report on, than say, a million iraqi killed after the war who started in 2003, or that more than 4 millions have been refugees in other parts of Iraq, or in other country too.. Then something is deadly wrong.. Not that the US media do not have the posibility to report it, but rather that they do not shoose to do it.. It is uncomfortable to report that your war, who you by the way suported are going bad and are killing to mutch pepole.. The 8 year have been a nightmare if you ask me. And I am pretty sure it would be verry interesting to se what came after january 20, of wisleblowers in the Bush administration... In fact I would say that it would be verry intersting to se all the books coming after january 20 where all the crimes are coming to light..

True, the law's that mr Bush have made ready to the next president (who in the neo-cons view off course should be an republican, but by accident was going to a democrat - and black (o the horror:sarcasm: ) Hopefully mr Obama with the new Senate and Congress could, and should do something about this, and rewoke al the law mr Bush made between 20 january 2001 and 20 january 2009... Then MAYBE US could go forward again... But not before they have managed to make it right.. It is like the germans after the war should have had all the law's who was made between 1933 and 1945 still in the book... And in some cases it happend... But for the most part, the german law after ww2 was verry diferent than before the war..

Diclotican
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #54
103.  leftchick
leftchick

Some I know would rather say I have a bad knowledge of US foreign policy in an history context and that little I do know, is as good as nothing.. But then they are far to the right compared to most Europeans I know... And the right in US, is so far to the right compared to the right in Europe, that they are crossing path with the neo-Nazis if I have to be so bold..

Many american's seen to just not care about how US are acting in the world, and are rather happy about the infotainments who are going as news this days.. Fox news are on the biggest "news channels" on the air, even that it is a channel full of complete shit, compared to most news coming from Europe.. Even the russians, who for the most part have been grown up, by propaganda in the news, even the children's things was not without propaganda, have not that bad news for their people.. And even that I do believe the US news to be Little better than the old soviet news broadcast it look very like similar.. Had Fox news a little time right after what happened in NYC 9/11 and it was little interesting to look at - to you understand what was the point and you was seeing at pure propaganda for the most evil parts of the US Psyche. But it looks like an excellent news channel, to give the impression that US want to wage war, against everyone Else's objection... And it was not few who had that view in the rest of the world - for many reason that is... And I do believe that news channels like Fox news, and radio Host like Sawage and the rest would never managed to make it in Europe.. We still have a pretty strict regime of what is right and what is wrong to air in most country and manipulative assholes like many of your "hate radio host" would never make it in Europe.. Maybe a hour or two but after that.. They would be "killed" on the air.. And the very, very few Right wing extremist "news channel" who are here in Europe, are not popular, and are shunned by the most.. In US their would be more like the "main stream media" it looks like..

It is tragic how dumbed down many americans have become, that is true. It looks like my who are living on the outside of the US that you can do almost everything, if you just wave the american flag in the front of the line.. If you do this, you can do almost everything in the book, and some after to kill and murder whatever you want.. And that have been the case the last 30 year or so.. Most of the american history I know just by book that I am not that old yet, but since young adulthood I have been fascinated by US, and have trued hard to get a grip of why you do as you do... Without success to this day then..

Off course it is far more easy to manipulate a population by false information, that is something modern dictatorship have made a point since the 1930s.. The german Propaganda ministry by Joseph Gobbles was maybe the prime example to how propaganda can and will manipulate enough of the population to make a war look like a sensible way to go.. Even to kill and murder millions of civilians, who have not doing the germans no harm what so ever - but just was in the way of the 1000 year Reich... Today we know what happened, and I really doubt the same will be manageable here in Europe again.. Specially not in Germany who since 1945 have grown up to be a peacefully country, not without some problems but still a peacefully country.. But I do belive that even Dr Gobbels would be proud to know that many of his tecnics was been used by the american "media" and that he would also be proud to se that the right wingers in the US, ar fare better to scare the american public, that even HE was under the war...

And it is always more easy to manipulate a population who is in a state of shock.. Like the US was when 9/11 happened in 2001. The us of yesterday was there no more, and a new, far more scared country was coming out.. With an president who wanted to wage war, long before he was in office as the record show, to stand out from the shadow of his father.. And with a political power, who since 1994 had claimed pretty public that US was to dominate the world, either by peacefully means, or by violence and war.. And who after the attack in NYC could do it, because they had the full support of the Administration.. Today US are bogged down in a war without end in Iraq, and even if US was to came out of there, with the large parts of their army they would still loose.. And it is not easy to get a army out when it is moving in.. The germans have had you as "visitors" in more than 60 year, and still have you there.. And that even that the US behavior in Germany after ww2 was excellent, compared to what happening in Iraq 60 year after... Then you indeed was the "nice gay", and not the "evil gay>" as most iraqi sees you today...

It is never easy to emigrate, young or adult.. And the emigration proses in Norway is rather long, but if you or your sons want to go true it, it is indeed some nice place to came.. It can be wice to visit Norway before you or your sons decide to emigrate here, so you understand what make us going.. We can be pretty interesting to study... But we can also be not to easy to get to know, but when you get to know us, you might find a friend for many year..

I hope now, that US are on the track to the recovery, it would not be easy to do it, but if mr Obama will, he have the support of most european to back him up.. But the type of illness that you have been a part of are never easy to fix and will take a long time to just recover from the disease.. It is a disease every nation can came under, some more than others.. And for some, who never will be in the harms way, would find it tempting to wake a war of choice.. And as ever, it would bee the "others" who would pay the price..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #103
104. Joseph Gobbles is a perfect example of where the US is today
'Joseph Goebbels' Quote

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it,
people will eventually come to believe it. The
lie can be maintained only for such time as the
State can shield the people from the political,
economic and/or military consequences of the
lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the
State to use all of its powers to repress dissent,
for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie,
and thus by extension, the truth is the
greatest enemy of the State."


Thank you my friend. :)
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 09:15 PM
Original message
leftchick
leftchick

Pretty scaring isn't it, when Dr Gobbles lying have been the norm that most of the american media have been became.. But as every lie in the world, it would came out sooner or later.. And more and more all the lying that this regime have given the american media, and that the american media to easy was swallowing under the belt are coming to light..

Dr Gobbles was an smart man.. but even he could not give all the germans what dr Gobbles want and even hi's lies was coming to light under and specially after the war...

And today, more and more of the lying that have happened under mr Bush, and his "friends" in the american media are coming to light, more an more.. And a "schocked" american public are waking up to the fact, that they have been lied to, in more than 8 year..

- The rest of the world, have understands that the Bush administration have bee lying to their own, and to the rest of the world in more than 7 year.. The roundup to the Iraq war, was indeed a aye opener for most of us on the outside.. Pity the same was not the case in US..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language

:toast: :hi:
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
13. This why you cannot have a blanket pardon of anybody in Dubya's administration
Somebody, somewhere had to be responsible for this and it's going to take a while to find out who.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
16. May this case be cleared and this women given back her life.
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Duppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
17. there's a strange wiki article about her
Edited on Wed Dec-10-08 08:41 PM by Duppers
"Fleet Bank security officers began tracking a money trail from the Saudi Embassy that led to Siddiqui, resulting in more "links" that "shocked" the bank security officers, according to an investigative report in Newsweek that incorrectly identifies Siddiqui as a microbiologist.<5>"

There much, much more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aafia_Siddiqui

Oh my, oh my, Saudi Embassy. Isn't that criminal???? We must lock up and torture anyone having anything to do with the SAUDI embassy!


"Disappearance and alleged arrest
On March 1, 2003, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, one of the original 22 FBI Most Wanted Terrorists, was captured in Pakistan. Siddiqui may have drawn the FBI's attention when she was named by the captured senior al-Qaida operative, as CNN reported on April 3, 2003. According to Newsweek, FBI Agents also found evidence that she had rented a post-office box to help another Baltimore, Maryland-based individual alleged to have been an al-Qaeda contact who had been assigned by Khalid Shaikh Mohammed to blow up underground gasoline-storage tanks."

ALLEGED, ALLEGED, ALLEGED....

Scapegoated.

When does the country sanction the killing of innocent children?!!!! (I know, I know war kills innocent children, but this is different.)






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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
18. Well, DUH, this is what the CIA does and has been doing long before Bush...
...even came into office. It's what the CIA was created for.
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spiritual_gunfighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #18
51. Yes long before GWB was in office
and you can say this type of behavior was accelerated when GWB's father was the CIA head.
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riverdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #18
95. It's true. The CIA did heinous acts to Americans.
Look up the CIA mind control experiments and what they did to GIs and people low on the food chain of America who were ordered or signed for what they thought were simple experiments.

If they do that to Americans, anything the mind can imagine is being done to 'persons of interest'.

Unfortunately for us, what goes around comes around. We're top dog for the moment, but they'll come a day when one of us may wind up in a Chinese prison, for example. And their newly wealthy populace probably won't care either.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
21. Can someone tell me what the difference is between the
treatment the Nazi's gave to their prisioners and what's happening to this woman and many other dissapeared people?

There is no difference.....these are "Crimes against Humanity", these crimes must not go unpunished by the American Justice System or by the Hague.

Absolutely appalling....
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. The Nazis lost
That's the difference. Had the nazis won, it would be the US on trail in Nuremburg for the bomb, and the brits for Dresden - and let's not even talk about what the Russians were doing the whole time. Meanwhile the Holocaust would have been a "tragic mistake in our country's past that we are deeply regretful for". While we were making a big shirt-rending show of prosecuting nazi war criminals, we hired others, and covered our own war-crimes... or extorted and coerced forgiveness out of the nations we went against
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #26
33. Yes this is true the Nazi's lost
My point is the Nazi's used torture as a weapon to destroy certain groups of people and the US in * torture policy the same thing is happening. These are war crimes in both situations. These have occurred in different decades but they are still crimes.

War in itself does produce crime there is no refuting that fact, no matter if you are on the winning or losing side.
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. My point is that it's only a "crime" if you're on the losing side
We annihilated two complete cities and all their residents from the face of the earth in nuclear fire. In our history books this as heroic, a necessary action to finally defeat the rampaging yellow hordes of Japan. A hundred thousand people - more! - incinerated in under two hours, with thousands more dying lingering, torturous deaths, and this is lauded as a fine crescendo to our noble, just war of light and goodness.

Is this a war crime? Oh, I don't think there's any possible way to argue that Fat Man and Little Boy were anything but two of the top five war crimes throughout human history. But nobody said a peep, because we had won, and we had more of the things handy.

That's my (Admittedly disgustedly cynical) point. That you're only in trouble if you lose.
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BlancheSplanchnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #36
49. your disgustingly cynical point sounds pretty astute to me
and if you have a media owned by the corporatists kneeling at the feet of the Powers (or is that the other way around?), and a populace largely ignorant who, encouraged by theocrats, corporatists, and big media, siphon off the sense of right and wrong towards avenging *ahem* wrongs against the bahhhble, then who will ever have enough momentum to challenge them?

what luck for leaders, that men do not think.........
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riverdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #36
96. Every nation rewrites it's own history more favorably.
Japan still has large segments denying the rape of Nanking, while China says nothing about Tibet. And so the circle goes.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #36
106. And I think your point is acccurate!
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #26
80. You are correct...
the victor always writes the history.
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #21
100. We'll take the war criminals... We would be glad to... But first...
Pelosi, Reid and Obama have to send them to us!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
22. The wars are their "license" to do these things .... we have to stop them....ASAP --
Edited on Wed Dec-10-08 09:48 PM by defendandprotect
"This would never happen to a Western Woman."

There's almost nothing we can count on as being impossible these days --



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ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
23. they will pay for this...all of them n/t
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
24. the USoA lost its way in 1947 with the NSA
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/cwr/17603.htm

The National Security Act of 1947 mandated a major reorganization of the foreign policy and military establishments of the U.S. Government. The act created many of the institutions that Presidents found useful when formulating and implementing foreign policy, including the National Security Council (NSC). The Council itself included the President, Vice President, Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense, and other members (such as the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency), who met at the White House to discuss both long-term problems and more immediate national security crises. A small NSC staff was hired to coordinate foreign policy materials from other agencies for the President. Beginning in 1953 the President's Assistant for National Security Affairs directed this staff. Each President has accorded the NSC with different degrees of importance and has given the NSC staff varying levels of autonomy and influence over other agencies such as the Departments of State and Defense. President Dwight D. Eisenhower, for example, used the NSC meetings to make key foreign policy decisions, while John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson preferred to work more informally through trusted associates. Under President Richard M. Nixon, the NSC staff, then headed by Henry A. Kissinger, was transformed from a coordinating body into an organization that actively engaged in negotiations with foreign leaders and implementing the President's decisions. The NSC meetings themselves, however, were infrequent and merely confirmed decisions already agreed upon by Nixon and Kissinger.

The act also established the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), which grew out of World War II era Office of Strategic Services and small post-war intelligence organizations. The CIA served as the primary civilian intelligence-gathering organization in the government. Later, the Defense Intelligence Agency became the main military intelligence body. The 1947 law also caused far-reaching changes in the military establishment. The War Department and Navy Department merged into a single Department of Defense under the Secretary of Defense, who also directed the newly created Department of the Air Force. However, each of the three branches maintained their own service secretaries. In 1949 the act was amended to give the Secretary of Defense more power over the individual services and their secretaries.


perhaps someday we will become an enlightened people and stop this criminal behavior - hiding behind some black box governmental spending program that "protects" everyone from knowing what their government does in their name without their approval.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
25. It will take decades for all the HORRORS to be reported out there.
It will take Decades for Americans (other than Us) to CARE ENOUGH....

That's what's so disheartening. But, thanks for the post. We've got to keep exposing it. Create a record out here...so that these WAR CRIMES are NEVER FORGOTTEN.

K&R.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
27. Eight years of arrogance. 45 years of not getting caught. 45 years of
regurgitaining the same players. Nothing in our USA life compares to the arrogance, cruelty, law and treaty breaking acts, the thefts of everything held dear that we've seen and learned about.

They were under belief that they owned the world and would continue to own it, that they would prosper - by getting their own brand of reality and permissions.

No one has known this kind of arrogance in this country, since the assassination ofJFK.
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #27
101. Funny you should mention JFK...
He used the CIA to invade the Bay of Pigs in Cuba, in an attempt to overthrow Fidel Castro and restore the dictatorship of Battista. He also had the CIA coming up with plans to assassinate Castro. How ironic.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #101
115. Wrong. The Bay of Pigs invasion was planned in the Eisenhower administration - it was
underway at the Inaugaral. The CIA told JFK what the plan was and it was based on wrong intelligence give to the CIA - OR wrong intelligence concoted by the CIA. Read the books - JFK was infuriated by the intelligence given him. Some say he was set up.

The Mafia and the CIA were the beneficiaries of the corruption of Batista for many, many years. They wanted Cuba back the way it was. How dare Fidel kick them out.

When JFK saw the disastrous mess, he would not give permission to their second try.

Key players among Cuban-Americans continued to work for and with the CIA to try to assasinate Castro for the next 35 years.
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #115
117. 'Some say he was set up'.... Well, of course 'some say' that...
Like his strongest supporters. But he was the president, he was responsible. He could have called it off. And he didn't prevent the CIA from plotting to assassinate Castro.
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wroberts189 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
28. These outrages on us all MUST be stopped. k&r eom
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clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
29. Her doctorate was in cognitive neuroscience, not genetics
Edited on Wed Dec-10-08 11:32 PM by clear eye
and her thesis focused on how people learn through imitation--an area of study that has no application to weapons. Since she was in Boston with her husband and young children when she was alleged to have been transacting a diamond deal in Libya for the benefit of Al-Quaeda, there is speculation that a female Al-Quaeda operative got hold of her identity earlier when she lived for a while near her family in Pakistan. Her American visa made her identity particularly valuable. She was originally flagged by the FBI after 9/11 because she was an evangelizing Muslim in Boston.

While she definitely was an active missionary while in America, there is no evidence that she was a militant. In fact, delivering Korans to prisons, and setting up missionary tables on campuses are the sort of high profile activities someone involved with terrorism would avoid.

A long and detailed magazine article about her poignant life--torn between her religiousity and her desire for an academic career in the U.S., her husband's assumption that she would not work while raising their children, and his desire to return to Pakistan and live a traditional life which eventually led to their divorce--was published in Boston magazine in 2004, and is available here: http://www.bostonmagazine.com/articles/whos_afraid_of_aafia_siddiqui/ .

From an August 2008 article on a legal association's website "Find Law":

An Unlikely Story

Siddiqui's story seems improbable, no matter which version you believe. If you trust the US story, you have to imagine that Siddiqui succeeded in hiding for more than five years -- despite the intense interest of US and Pakistani intelligence services - then decided to pop up in Afghanistan with an all-purpose terrorism kit, and then, upon her arrest, decided to take advantage of a security lapse to blast away at US soldiers and FBI agents. More than the al Qaeda mom, as the New York Post dubs her, she would have to be al Qaeda's Angelina Jolie.

The claim that she was hidden away in secret detention all these years might seem equally unlikely. But when one realizes that the people she was allegedly linked to were themselves held in secret detention, and that the Pakistani intelligence services were covertly arresting dozens of people in Karachi during this period, the story gains plausibility.

Because Siddiqui's disappearance fit neatly into a larger pattern, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and several other human rights groups included Siddiqui on a 2007 list of people suspected to have been in CIA custody.

Although the US government has denied that the United States held Siddiqui during the period of her disappearance, the federal court that is hearing her case should facilitate an in-depth investigation of her lawyers' claims. The possibility that Siddiqui was held for five years in secret detention before her official arrest is not only deeply relevant to her mental state at the time of the alleged crimes, it goes to the integrity of the court's jurisdiction.


http://writ.news.findlaw.com/mariner/20080908.html

The latest news is that she is basically destroyed phyically and mentally. Last month a judge in the U.S. ruled that due to her mental condition she is unfit to stand trial.

There is an online petition calling for "Justice for Aafia Siddiqui".
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #29
75. The other side of the story.
Subsequent to the Fleet National Bank investigation, Aafia Siddiqui's husband was found to be purchasing high-tech military equipment. According to Newsweek, FBI documents also stated that Khan, Siddiqui’s husband, had purchased body armor, night-vision goggles and a variety of military manuals that were supposed to be sent to Pakistan. Fleet National Bank accounts associated with the couple also showed "major purchases" from U.S. airlines and hotels in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and North Carolina as well as an $8,000 international wire transfer on December 21, 2001, to Habib Bank, the largest bank in Pakistan.

Newsweek reported that Fleet National Bank investigators discovered that one account used by the Boston-area couple showed repeated debit-card purchases from stores that "specialize in high-tech military equipment and apparel", including Black Hawk Industries in Chesapeake, Virginia, and Brigade Quartermasters in Georgia. (Black Hawk's website advertises grips, mounts and parts for AK-47s and other military-assault rifles as well as highly specialized combat clothing, including vests designed for bomb disposal).

The Fleet National Bank reports detailing all the transactions were filed with the U.S. Treasury Department, and suggest that Siddiqui and her estranged husband, Dr. Mohammed Amjad Khan, may have been active terror plotters inside the country until as late as the summer of 2002.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aafia_Siddiqui

The U.S. believes that she is now married to this man:

A Yemeni-Balochi<1> computer technician from Pakistan,<2> Ammar al-Baluchi (Arabic: علي عبدالعزيز علي‎, also transcribed as Amar al-Balochi<3>, also known as Ali Abdul Aziz Ali<4> or Ali Abd al-Aziz Ali<3>) is a prisoner of the United States who faces the death penalty for his association with several of the hijackers later involved in the September 11 attacks.

It is alleged that the majority of money that came to the hijackers from the Emirates was transferred through al-Baluchi and Mustafa al-Hawsawi.<5> The 9/11 Commission reported that he "helped them with plane tickets, traveler's checks, and hotel reservations", and "taught them about everyday aspects of life in the West, such as purchasing clothes and ordering food".<5> In his defence, al-Baluchi claims that he often helped people in Dubai with such things to supplement his income, and he had no way of knowing whether any of them were criminals.<2>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammar_al-Baluchi

I strongly disapprove of torture, but the U.S. may have had good reason to detain Aafia Siddiqui.
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
30. We are going to hear a lot of ugly stories once the truth rises to the surface but hopefully >
Edited on Wed Dec-10-08 11:37 PM by cooolandrew
it will bring about the change that is needed. The last 8 years have just been the wildest horror movie, thankfully the future years will be a feel good movie. Just being realistic (not that I wish it) they will get away with it but the best case scenario these things won't happen again.
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Voltaire99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
31. Another glorious chapter in the history of the CIA.
Bearing comparison to highlights of the Eisenhower/Kennedy/LBJ/Nixon admins.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
32. Kick
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napoleon_in_rags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
34. Ahmed, the seven-year-old, lying in a pool of blood
And what does Bush think his legacy is going to be again???
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QueenOfCalifornia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #34
45. Well now...
it's part of No Child Left....At All...

Love the fetus. Hate the child.

If you are a child of Islamic parents you really don't matter.

This horrible shit has been going on for decades. Under Bush, they have tried to make us believe it is part of the cost of being a superpower. When you kill your own citizens as a punitive measure (capitol punishment) - it makes death by torture seem almost okay to a lot of Americans.

When Americans put a stop to this, we will have become truly evolved.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 05:01 AM
Response to Original message
37. The "New Man" In The WH Remains Impeachophobically Complicit
He http://www.talkingimpeachment.com/blog/Hall-of-Shame-Inductee----Barak-Obama.html">doesn't consider torture and war crimes to be "grave breaches."

Seems everyone is instantly on board to fast-track impeach a Governor on the mere accusation of run-of-the-mill graft over a temporary Senate seat. But no one's got the time or sense of duty to begin the Redemption of Our National Soul.

Impeachment remains our ONLY moral, patriotic option.

--
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. I couldn't agree more...
To let the things that the neocons have done go unpunished is criminal.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #37
43. how depressing
I never saw this before. :(



I think you reserve impeachment for grave, grave breaches, and intentional breaches of the president's authority.
Pouty Pelosi

Are torture and war crimes not grave? Did they illegally spy on Americans -- before 9/11 -- accidentally? Or rather are you cowering in the face of your duty under the US Constitution and our treaty obligations?
Or worse yet, is Obama -- like the rest of the DC-Dem "leadership" -- trading off our nation's founding principles for some (wrongly) perceived temporary political advantage? Fine orator that he is, Senator Obama went on to clarify (rationalize) his cowerful compromised position with Orwellian eloquence:

"I believe if we began impeachment proceedings we will be engulfed in more of the politics that has made Washington dysfunction," he added. "We would once again, rather than attending to the people's business, be engaged in a tit-for-tat, back-and-forth, non-stop circus."

His impeachophobia is so severe that he seems to think that impeaching/objecting to a war criminal in The People's House constitutes "tit-for-tat" -- but that a cartoon on a magazine demands angry condemnation.

I suppose we can audaciously hope that he might change these severely warped priorities.

:grr:
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #37
102. Because he knows that, once he supports impeachment/indictment of Bush...
He himself may one day face the same challenges. Why did you think Clinton swept all of Poppy's crimes under the rug? He didn't want to get in trouble with his own agenda, like he should've been ('extra-rendition'...). (Instead, he got impeached over a blow job.)
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
39. I read it. Did she get arrested because she wanted to work here? nt
Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 07:12 AM by Sarah Ibarruri
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #39
77. No. According to Wikkipedia, she and her then husband were
buying military equipment and supplies. That is the accusation in any event. Also, the man the U.S. believes is her current husband is believed to have handled the transfer of money to the 9/11 hijackers at some point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammar_al-Baluchi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aafia_Siddiqui

This does not justify the torture, but it does justify the detention.
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riverdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #77
97. Ok, so if they have evidence against her
then charge her, give her a trial, and if she's found guilty, send her to lockup. Not hold her in limbo for years and do untold things to her. That doesn't make us safer. Those people don't get intimidated or demoralized by this, they just get even.
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Politicalboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #77
98. Were there really hijackers?
All we have is the Bush story. Hijackers who by their religion would be banned from heaven if they kill themselves and others. Hijackers who went on a drinking binge and strippers the night before. Again against their religion. Airplanes yes. Pentagon? Hijackers no. Hijackers who flew out of Boston rather than taking one out of JFK. They also id all the hijackers. Isn't it something they had DNA to match it with. Identifying bodies but no airplane reconstruction. Anyone other than Bush/Cheney found guilty of 9/11 is a lie.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #77
109. Oh ok - I agree it does not justify torture. Really, torture is never justifiable nt
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clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #77
123. When was she supposed to have re-married?
Edited on Sat Dec-13-08 12:05 AM by clear eye
While she was living w/her mother in Pakistan (where her husband divorced her)? Or in the few weeks she went back to the States to look for a job? Or while she was at Bagram? How can an intelligence agency "believe" someone is married? Is a marriage license filed anywhere she's been, or isn't it?

Her husband claimed that his purchase of a couple of night vision goggles and flak jackets were for big game hunting in Pakistan. I notice that the FBI source doesn't say what he bought--that way they could imply much w/o actually lying. If we could find out for sure, I'd lay odds that the only "manuals" he got were the instructional manuals for the goggles and vests.

Of course she and her husband transferred $8K to a bank in Pakistan. They were going to move back there!!
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Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
41. Dear Lord! Inhumane and disgusting. Words fail me.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
42. Sickening. I have an issue with one of Ridley's comments though.
"This would never happen to a Western Woman." Wanna bet?

I sincerely hope Obama completely reverses most of the policies of the Bush administration AND holds people responsible.
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clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #42
124. As for holding people responsible--
don't hold your breath.
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Christa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
44. K & R
If we let Bush and Cheney get away with all the crimes they committed, we are as guilty as they are.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
46. well if she wasn't a terrorist before we got hold of her . . .
We are single handedly responsible for increasing the size of al qaeda - I recently heard something like 400 times the size it was in 2000.

The rule of law is meaningless if it is inconsistently applied, or if instead of preservation of rights, law itself is used to justify its existence.


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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
47. I'm deeply skeptical
about this version of events and the details. For one thing, the article seems to me to be attempting to conflate the Pakistanis and the Americans. For example:

"She's incarcerated now in New York, but it's not known if her children are still alive and if so where they're held.

Human rights organizations, British journalist Yvonne Ridley, and MP Lord Nazir raised questions about her detention, and, according to Nazir "she (was) physically tortured and continuously raped by the officers at the prison" - for over four years. Chalk it up to "Western values" that (in a post-9/11 climate) view Muslims as sub-humans to be subjected to unlimited degradations."


Right after it mentions that she is in prison in New York, it says she was tortured and raped by officers at the prison... but on deeper reading, it is clear that the author means the Pakistani officers at the Pakistani prison were torturing and raping. It's written in a way that looks like a delibertate attempt to deceive the reader into thinking it is American prison officers raping her.

This article smells like dead fish.
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. I am also very skeptical
I believe the truth may be somewhere in the middle of both accounts.

I believe the article is just as biased as the government account just at an opposite spectrum.

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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Agreed. n/t
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #53
73. the torture victim's account
if that matters...

http://teabreak.pk/dr-aafia-siddiqui-speaks-out-159/7538/


At last a word has come out from Dr. Aafia Siddiqui herself about her travails. On Tuesday, October 6, four Pakistani senators met her in Texas but unfortunately their account has not been properly covered in many news reports. One exception is Daily Times, whose correspondent Khalid Hasan has given a remarkably detailed account of what Aafia told the senators in a meeting which lasted 2 hours and 45 minutes.

ACCORDING TO HER:

1. She was on her way to the Karachi airport in 2003 with her children when she was taken. She remembers being given an injection and when she came to she was in a cell.
2. She was being brainwashed by men who spoke perfect English. They could be Afghan or others. She did not think they were Pakistanis.
3. She was being forced to admit things she had allegedly done. She was made to sign statements, some of which included information on phone calls she was said to have made.
4. She has been tortured (but she provided no details).
5. She was told by her captors that if she did not co-operate, her children would suffer (two of them are still missing).
6. She said she did not know where her children were and it was not clear if they had been with her during her captivity.
7. The assault case against her has no basis in fact.
8. She expressed her lack of confidence in the court hearing her case and the US legal system.
9. She said she didn’t trust the two lawyers who are representing her.

Aafia’s version is not basically different from what the human rights organizations including Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and Asian Human Rights Commission have been suspecting for long (and it is not just Aafia’s “family” or her “lawyers” who have been raising these allegations, although some news report attempt to give that impression). The importance of this meeting cannot be exagerrated because now, finally, Aafia has narrated her side of the story in her own words, however incoherent she might have been due to the stress she has gone through. The world has been wanting to hear her side of the story.
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #73
116. I guess I just don't completely believe her.
Just because she is a she and a mother does not make her immune from being a zealot willing to kill and help kill for her cause.

Do I know if she is? No But also don't know if she isn't.

I think the truth lies somewhere in between the two stories.

She is no angel.

The government torturers are no angels.

it's a difficult thing in choosing what to believe when two groups of skilled liars and murderers are speaking.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #116
118. what ever happened to
'assumed innocent until proven guilty"? Oh yeah, that is the new WoT logic. Glad to know you approve. :eyes:
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #118
119. It's not up to me to find them guilty- a jury presumes innocence.
I am talking about hearing two stories, both from iffy opposed sources and not knowing who to believe.

That is a logical and rational view, IMO.

For you to equate that with our system of juries is a bit of a stretch.

If I WERE on the jury then I would have access to a whole lot more material that would hopefully help me to figure out where the truth of it all is located.

Oh yeah- one more thing- I can role my eyes with a neat little emote also.

:eyes:

See?
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #119
120. that is the point
it is really sad to have to explain to someone how fucked up the rendition and torture program is. There will never be truth and justice coming out of it. I side with her because of the history the US has now of torture, indefinite detention, lack of charges, no trials. To me it is only logical to believe her over these fucking criminals. Locking her up for five years and not admitting to it says volumes. At least to anyone with a modicum of intelligence.


Don't bother to reply, not knowing which story to be inclined to believe says it all to me about you.

here ya go! One for the road. :eyes:
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #120
121. You don't have to explain how fucked up the redition and torture program is to me.
Edited on Fri Dec-12-08 02:04 PM by Marrah_G
I got that a long time ago.

You are apparently hell-bent on finding some argument with me where there is none. You have been nasty, condescending and down-right rude.

Since you have already decided who and what I am all about, I will save myself the trouble of ever trying to converse with you again.

Have a nice day and welcome to ignore.
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Kaleva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #47
56. Question Everything!
Even an OP posted here at DU can contain factual errors or disputable information. I suspect in this case the truth is somewhere in the middle as mentioned by another poster.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #47
57. What makes you think Americans would be above rape?
Apparently they crossed the line to torture. Could rape of female prisoners be far behind?
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #57
70. I didn't say any such thing n/t
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #57
91. Of course! The "Greatest Generation" raped thousands in Europe in World War II
the French government in exile in particular complained to Eisenhower about the number of French women who were being raped by their American "liberators". A lot of the reason why the Canadians and British are respected in Europe, while the Americans are hated, are because of the barbarous behavior of American soldiers during World War 2, pillaging, looting, and raping like they were Attila's Huns.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #57
111. There's no doubt that this has been *the* most abusive American administration in history...
However, to believe that every person arrested was raped, tortured, and to believe every prisoner of everything they say, without having any evidence of any sort, is also wrong. I agree with everyone that says the truth is some place in the middle.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #47
58. It seems to be a partisan article. I had some questions, too,
Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 01:18 PM by sfexpat2000
and went googling around yesterday. What I found tends to confirm this account, fwiw. I posted one of the articles up thread.

Eta: The BBC article is in #3.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #58
66. The Counterpunch article is a little partisan, I agree
Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 01:58 PM by leftchick
That is why I posted the other links because I needed to back up the story. If the facts are not clear it is because the US government is not telling a truthful story. I am still not sure if her children are alive or dead. What is crystal clear is she was indeed rendered and torture by both Pakistani intelligence and the CIA. I actually found a lot more about her and would be happy to post the links if anyone wishes.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. I agree, entirely. n/t
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clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #47
64. It is not known where she was held between 2003 - 2008
Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 02:00 PM by clear eye
The Pakastanis claim to have turned her over to the Americans shortly after they captured her in March, 2003. The U.S. authorities claimed she escaped early on and they didn't recapture her until July, 2008. Both countries having her in custody before her "escape" and not being able to follow her trail for 5 years? That's what smells like week-old fish.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #64
122. not just smell
it reeks. The fact that both countries "intelligence" services are involved, lied they had her at all points directly to their version being the least likely.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #47
69. how about this
Dr. Aafia Siddiqui at Texas Medical Centre
Published by Saj on Tagged News of Dr Aafia

LONDON, Dec 02 (APP)? Responding to letter from the British Parliamentarian Lord Nazir Ahmed on the whereabouts of Dr. Aafia Siddiqui, the US authorities have informed that the Pakistani citizen is currently incarcerated at Carswell Federal Medical Center, Forth Worth, Texas, which provides specialised medical and mental health services to female offenders.

The British Peer in his letter addressed to the US Attorney General had sought the immediate release of Dr. Siddiqui and her repatriation to Pakistan after it became known public in August this year that she was being held in US controlled detention centre on dubious charges.

The Regional Director of the facility in his reply informed Lord Ahmed that Dr.Siddiqui’s confinement at Carswell is pursuant to the October 1,2008, judicial directive of the US District Court, New York.

The Judge had termed Dr. Siddiqui as too ill and not in a state of correct mind to stand trial and referred her for further treatment at the Texas facility.

“Further action of the Federal Bureau of Prisons will be in accordance with the Court’s future determination and directives to inmate Siddiqui’s ability to stand trial,” the Regional Director wrote in his letter to Lord Ahmed.

Dr. Siddiqui went missing on March 31, 2003 along with her three young children and five years later it emerged that she was being held at the detention facility at Bagram in Kabul.

One of the sons has since returned to Karachi from Afghanistan.

http://draafia.org/2008/12/02/dr-aafia-siddiqui-at-texas-medical-centre/



Rights groups seek Siddiqui extradition
Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:18:14 GMT
Aafia Siddiqui
Pakistani rights groups have urged the extradition of a neuroscientist detained in Afghanistan in July for allegedly attacking US agents.

On Wednesday, a US judge declared the US-educated Dr Aafia Siddiqui, who was extradited to the United States in August, was unfit for trial due to mental incompetence.

Judge Richard Berman told the Federal court in New York that Siddiqui is "not currently competent to proceed."

Prosecutors accuse Siddiqui of attempting to murder officers during an interrogation which followed her arrest by Afghan police in July. She was cited for allegedly grabbing a US warrant officer's rifle and opening fire on the interrogation team which included two FBI agents.

She is also considered to have links with al-Qaeda.

Chairman Senate's Functional Committee on Human Rights Senator S.M. Zafar declared that due to the US report of Dr Aafia's inability to stand trial because of her mental health, the Government of Pakistan should make 'serious efforts' to bring the Pakistani doctor back, The News International reported on Thursday.

He said the government should attempt extradition, despite great odds against the possibility, the daily quoted Mr. Zafar as saying.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=75999§ionid=351020401



Sunday, November 16, 2008

By our correspondent

ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan Bar Council Saturday urged the United Nations to intervene and play its due role in safeguarding the civil rights and liberty of Dr Aafia Siddiqui and for her fair and transparent trial by a competent court of law.

A meeting of the Human Rights Committee of the Pakistan Bar Council was held here in the council’s office, Islamabad, with Raja Muhammad Shafqat Abbasi in the chair.

The committee expressed its serious concern over continued detention of Dr Aafia Siddiqui by the US authorities and unknown whereabouts of her children. The committee urged the US authorities to respect the civil rights of an individual and that too a woman and her children and if at all her conduct is questionable, the allegations against her should be made public, and she be tried in an open court under the internationally accepted law and norms. She should also be provided lawyers of her own choice for defending herself in a court of law. The committee also resolved to address a letter to UN authorities in this regard.

The committee strongly condemned the brutal murder of Tasleem Solangi, being highly inhuman, against dignity of women and also a naked violation of human rights granted by the constitution and Islam.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=18390



google news search....

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&tab=wn&ned=us&q=Dr.+Aafia+Siddiqui&btnG=Search+News
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. What about it?
I don't even see a reference to rape, torture, killing children, etc., much less attributing those acts to Americans, CIA, whatever.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. wow you are fast!
you read all of the links including the BBC and The Independent British Journalist's articles? You are Impressive.

:eyes:

I guess it is her and her attorney's word against known LIARS the US government. I pick the torture victim.


http://teabreak.pk/dr-aafia-siddiqui-speaks-out-159/7538/

At last a word has come out from Dr. Aafia Siddiqui herself about her travails. On Tuesday, October 6, four Pakistani senators met her in Texas but unfortunately their account has not been properly covered in many news reports. One exception is Daily Times, whose correspondent Khalid Hasan has given a remarkably detailed account of what Aafia told the senators in a meeting which lasted 2 hours and 45 minutes.

ACCORDING TO HER:

1. She was on her way to the Karachi airport in 2003 with her children when she was taken. She remembers being given an injection and when she came to she was in a cell.
2. She was being brainwashed by men who spoke perfect English. They could be Afghan or others. She did not think they were Pakistanis.
3. She was being forced to admit things she had allegedly done. She was made to sign statements, some of which included information on phone calls she was said to have made.
4. She has been tortured (but she provided no details).
5. She was told by her captors that if she did not co-operate, her children would suffer (two of them are still missing).
6. She said she did not know where her children were and it was not clear if they had been with her during her captivity.
7. The assault case against her has no basis in fact.
8. She expressed her lack of confidence in the court hearing her case and the US legal system.
9. She said she didn’t trust the two lawyers who are representing her.

Aafia’s version is not basically different from what the human rights organizations including Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and Asian Human Rights Commission have been suspecting for long (and it is not just Aafia’s “family” or her “lawyers” who have been raising these allegations, although some news report attempt to give that impression). The importance of this meeting cannot be exagerrated because now, finally, Aafia has narrated her side of the story in her own words, however incoherent she might have been due to the stress she has gone through. The world has been wanting to hear her side of the story.


http://www.cageprisoners.com/prisoners.php?id=1367

According to Mrs. Siddiqui, Aafia left her mother's house in Gulshan-e-Iqbal in a Metro-cab on March 30, to catch a flight for Rawalpindi, but never reached the airport. Inside sources claim that Afia had been "picked-up" by intelligence agencies while on her way to the airport and initial reports suggest she was handed over to the FBI.



Aafia Siddiqui had been missing for more than a year when the FBI put her photographs on its website. The press was told that she was an Al Qaeda facilitator. After an FBI conference, a newspaper broke the story linking the woman involved in the 2001 diamond trade in Liberia to Aafia. The family's attorney, Elaine Whitfield Sharp, says the allegation was a blessing in disguise because it places Siddiqui somewhere at a specific time. She says she can prove Siddiqui was in Boston that week.



In Pakistan, there has been no official report registered with the police regarding her disappearance, and the police are doing nothing to trace her. Mrs. Siddiqui alleges that an intelligence agency official came to her house a week after the incident, and warned her not to make an issue out of her daughter's disappearance and threatened her with dire consequences.



Both the Pakistan government as well as US officials in Washington denied any knowledge of Aafia's custody.



On 7th July 2008, a press conference led by Cageprisoners patron, Yvonne Ridley, and Director, Saghir Hussain, in Pakistan resulted in mass international coverage of Aafia’s case as her disappearance was questioned by the media and political figures in Pakistan. It was on 3rd August 2008 that an agent from the FBI visited the home of her brother in Houston, Texas and told him that she was being detained in Afghanistan.



On Monday 4th August 2008, federal prosecutors in the US confirmed that Aafia Siddiqui was extradited to the US from Afghanistan where they allege she had been detained since mid-July 2008. The US administration claims that she was arrested by Afghani forces outside Ghazni governor’s compound with manuals on explosives and ‘dangerous substances in sealed jars’ on her person. They further allege that whilst in custody she shot at US officers (none being injured) and was herself injured in the process.



According to her lawyer, Elaine Whitfield Sharp, “We do know she was at Bagram for a long time. It was a long time. According to my client she was there for years and she was held in American custody; her treatment was horrendous.”
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. No I didn't read all the links
You are, of course, putting the relevant portions of the articles in the body of the post, right?

I am still not seeing anything about raping and killing children, etc.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #74
81. oh I get it
a lazy poster. cool, whatever.
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #81
84. I'm at work, dont have that kind of time
speaking of which, you'd be fired if you presented a report to a manager and demanded they dig through it for the important stuff. That's you. Fired.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #84
88. lol!
You are most entertaining. FYI we are limited in the amount of information posted from copyrighted pieces. It is up to the reader to read the whole article before assuming anything and posting. You are fired!

:rofl:
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #88
92. hehe
Thanks for the lols. I am glad you did not take that too seriously. I still disagree, though: it's up to the poster to post the relevant points. Nothing in the copyright rules say you have to post the FIRST few paragraphs. Just post the few paragraphs that get to the point.

I am home now, btw. I will look at those links at some point tonight. :)
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #92
99. Okay I read all the links, and more
I've concluded this:

She is an Al Qaeda terrorist operative, probably high-level due to her educational background,

She probably was not raped by Americans, nor were her children killed or tortured by Americans,

She is definitely the victim of extraordinary rendition.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #99
107. excellent!
Guilty before proven innocent! The american way!
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #107
108. Pot, meet kettle
or do accusations of jumping to conclusions only fit when they are politically expedient for the accuser?
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #107
112. I don't agree with you - we are simply not assuming that what prisoners say is always true....
and what the other side says is always a lie.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #112
113. sorry to disagree
or not. The facts are the US and its allies swept up many proven innocents in their dragnet after 9/11. In fact the majority of those rendered and tortured have been innocent, charges dropped and let go. Given that percentage I side with the torture victim.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #113
114. If she is a torture victim, I side with her too nt
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wolfgangmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #47
78. Hmmmmmmmmmm
I read it and got an entire different interpretation from it. I never assumed that it meant an American prison.

Apparently english is not your first language. But then again you are american, no?
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #78
79. Hmmmmmmmmmmm
Not really sure why you're being condescending, but, whatever.

The paragraph that mentions her being tortured and raped ends with this sentence:

Chalk it up to "Western values" that (in a post-9/11 climate) view Muslims as sub-humans to be subjected to unlimited degradations."

It appears the author is trying to assault "western values" by surreptitiously conflating Pakistani prison officers with American prison officers. At no point does any author in the above post come right out and say, "Americans raped her and killed her children," but they seem to attempt to imply it.

As for your interpretation, I am not sure why that should matter to me; check the above several dozen posts where people DID read it that way.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #79
83. American Prison in Afghanistan, Bagram Air Base run by
Surprise! Americans!
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #83
87. I'm not interested
in getting pulled off my point into defending something I never said just because someone sees my critque of an article they didn't even write as a threat to their worldview.

So, bye.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #87
89. run away
bye bye! :)
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
48. Anyone still believe no-one deserves to suffer endless agony and torment in Hell throughout
eternity any longer?
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
59. If our politicians were truly humanitarian they would put an end to these acts of terror.
These kind of actions perpetuate the insanity.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
60. Our CIA?? With it's long record of humantarianism and love of peace??
Perish the thought. :sarcasm: :sarcasm:
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clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
61. There is an online petition for her. (link)
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #61
68. Thank you for the link
signed!
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
62. If this is true...
George Bush and Dick Cheney should be arrested for war crimes. This criminal war for oil is reminiscient to the Nazis' actions in the 1930's and 40's.

Unfortunately, this congress doesn't have the balls to pursue crimes against the Neo-Con criminals. It's a shame. Murdering children and rape just to steal a black substance in the ground.
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BoneDaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
63. Totally disgusting
and shaming.
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LiberalLovinLug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
65. I think the bigger point
is that even IF she was tried using REAL evidence and allowing her a REAL defense, and after all of that she still was found guilty of trying to help al qaeda blow up a building (or whatever the exact crime was), she still does not deserve this "punishment", nor her children.

It's sickening that the truth of the matter is that the CIA and top military officials do not actually want a conviction, for her or the other poor sods rotting in hidden prisons, as they would lose their little dog and pony show where they can drag out anyone at any time from their cell and torture them when they hear any sniff of "alleged" information that may or may not relate to that poor individual. And then throw their abused and battered bodies back into the cell for future "use".
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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
86. Absolutely sickening, appalling. Does anyone know if her children were actually killed?
This is more than just an "oversight," it is absolutely criminal conduct and it needs to be remedied. Horrible beyond words.

Thank you for posting about this. First I had heard of it, although I suspected as much that this sort of thing was going on.

Will it be in the mainstream media?
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #86
90. on your last question , NO
She was abducted 5 years ago and no peep about it That I have seen. Not that is matters they would just read pentagon propaganda anyway. About her children I have heard conflicting reports. The best I have heard is one son has been Released from Afghanistan and no word or sign of the baby and third sibling. This makes me sick.
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Politicalboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
94. I love the smell of Freedom
In the afternoon. Obama needs to get on this shit soon. We need to have war criminals tried and convicted. Here's one

http://www.jabberwonk.com/flinker.cfm?cliid=2rx86
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #94
110. he sounds totally drunk
and he is indeed one of the war criminals so of course he is going to say this shit.
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dorkulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
125. Hersh: children raped at Abu Ghraib, Pentagon has videos
" Some of the worst things that happened you don't know about, okay? Videos, um, there are women there. Some of you may have read that they were passing letters out, communications out to their men. This is at Abu Ghraib ... The women were passing messages out saying 'Please come and kill me, because of what's happened' and basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys, children in cases that have been recorded. The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. And the worst above all of that is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has. They are in total terror. It's going to come out."

http://www.boingboing.net/2004/07/15/hersh-children-raped.html
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