Sexual threats quiet some female bloggers

[Horse with no Name]

Unfortunately, real life isn't the only place that freaks can intimidate women. It is shameful.This happens quite frequently. I have had a stalker, and it did silence me to a degree and made me just a little bit more careful.
It is very frightening and I have no doubts that freepers commit the majority of these offenses against women.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/ptech/stories/050107dnnatbloggers.27ba351.html

>>>snip

A female freelance writer who blogged about the pornography industry was threatened with rape. A single mother who blogged about "the daily ins and outs of being a mom" was threatened by a cyber-stalker who claimed that she beat her son and that he had her under surveillance. Kathy Sierra, who won a large following by blogging about designing software that makes people happy, became a target of anonymous online attacks that included photos of her with a noose around her neck and a muzzle over her mouth.

As women gain visibility in the blogosphere, they are targets of sexual harassment and threats. Men are harassed too, and lack of civility is an abiding problem on the Web. But women, who make up about half the online community, are singled out in more starkly sexually threatening terms -- a trend that was first evident in chat rooms in the early 1990s and is now moving to the blogosphere, experts and bloggers said.

>>>snip

Her Web site, Creating Passionate Users, was about "the most fluffy and nice things," she said. Sierra occasionally got the random "comment troll," she said, but a little over a month ago, the posts became more threatening. Someone typed a comment on her blog about slitting her throat and ejaculating. The noose photo appeared next, on a site that sprang up to harass her. On the site, someone contributed this comment: "the only thing Kathy has to offer me is that noose in her neck size."

[BOSSHOG]

1. Terrorizing Women is so manly and a bonafide conservative value

[Firespirit]

2. Put on a flame suit

You posted in DU about sexual harassment and sexual threats. At some point you'll be accused of hating men.

With regards to the article, there is a group of (probably) right-wing control freak men out there who hate women having any power or voice at all. They threaten the lives of these bloggers because they see all women in that way, but they only post it online because they are pathetic, tiny-dicked cowards who hide behind the anonymity of the web.

[DawnIsis]

6. I have noticed the hostility on DU towards women's rights issues as well

I was a member several years ago and left because of an awful experience on a thread about pornography in which I voiced my opinion of how it degrades women. I was told by MANY that because I thought that I must be ugly and have low self-esteem etc.

I thought it was sad and not at all what I had expected from a progressive site. I hope my experience this time is better.

[DrunkenMaster]

9. that type of attack works both ways, too

I was accused of harboring rape fantasies in a thread last month because I didn't see violence in a fashion ad.

Ad hominem attacks are powerful, painful and disgusting. I'm sorry you had to experience such a degrading, insulting and violent response.

[DawnIsis]

13. I'm sorry for yours too

I am gonna try to have thicker skin this time around with DU. It's a great site, full of lots of great information but still lots of name calling and such which IMO doesn't help anybody.

[DrunkenMaster]

14. Agreed - Intelligent Discussion Becomes Impossible

...and lord knows I've been guilty of it as well.

If you post on enviro or animal rights issues, you're a lunatic who wants to destroy our way of life and hates humanity and progress.

If you post an opinion on gender issues, you are either a castrating man-hater or an apologist for the rape-loving Patriarchy...etc. etc. etc.

It seems to be the general movement of political discourse in the nation since the Chimp took control.

It can be hard to be optimistic.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

18. It's basically the same all around...

i.e. creating a hostile environment in order to prevent the free exchange of ideas.

[DawnIsis]

19. I think it would ease the tension if everyone keeps in mind this is a progressive website

where progressive ideas are to be discussed and shared. If you have opinions on a topic you know don't fall under "progressive" thought it's best to voice them elsewhere.

Who We Are: Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office. Democratic Underground is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, and comments posted here are not representative of the Democratic Party or its candidates.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. Why is that an issue?

I'm totally progressive. So is everybody else, for the most part.

[DawnIsis]

28. Most of the hostile threads I have read on DU usually involve

people posting very unprogressive thinking on the topic then the whole thread goes downhill. I didn't mean you sorry if it seemed that way.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

30. No, no...

I mean there are certainly republican trolls, but for the most part everybody here's progressive, and that's the not the problem. The problem is people don't know how to debate maturely, so the use ad hominem attacks, and take things personally, and send insulting PMs, and stalk, and continue flame wars, and so on.

The person who calls another person a man-hating castrator often has the same politics here as the people who calls somebody else a rape-loving patriarch, it's neither progressive nor conservative, it's just anti-intellectual.

[DawnIsis]

34. You're right it's hard not to get emotional and say things sometimes

I am glad I never had a stalker or pmer I guess I should count myself lucky.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

35. There's worse things then stalkers and hostile PM-ers.

They're trolls. OK, OK, I know I just said the politics are the same, but they're trolls in the sense that they're basically pathetic people just looking for attention.

As I've said before, it's only an internet message board. And if you get all upset over what some anonymous poster said on the intertubes, than you ain't doing it right.

[cally]

50. You'll find fellow feminists in our forum

Here's the link but you need to donate to post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=341

[Madspirit]

10. In the last week

I have been accused of being a man hater and an idiot because I posted about abortion rights and told that my opinion holds no weight because I hate rape apologists. So yes, better don the asbestos. There is tangible misogyny here.
Lee

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. No no.

It wasn't because you hate rape apologists, it was because you accuse people of being "rape apologists" ad hominem in order to get out of an argument.

[omega minimo]

55. "It's just anti-intellectual"

"The person who calls another person a man-hating castrator often has the same politics here as the people who calls somebody else a rape-loving patriarch, it's neither progressive nor conservative, it's just anti-intellectual."

Seems you're doing what you're talking about :crazy:


And what the OP's about.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

79. You've got it backwards.

[DawnIsis]

15. It is comforting to know there are other women who support women's rights

on DU. I always thought feminism was a progressive issue and would be supported here but sadly I think we still have a long way to go :hug:

[Marie26]

16. Hey, keep speaking out

If there's anything we can learn from this article, it's that women shouldn't be intimidated into silence. Welcome back to DU! :hug:

ETA: There's also a Feminists Group at DU now, so there is a place where women can discuss feminism/women's rights without the trolls. - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=341

[Madspirit]

17. Thank-you

I get sad every day when I come here. People like you make it worth it though.
Thanks again.
Lee

[LostinVA]

21. I love Camille Paglia

I'M JOKING!!!

[Madspirit]

24. ...but, but, but, but

Camille is such a kind-hearted woman.... How can you not love her...<g>

Lee

[LostinVA]

25. All of my feminist friends love her to pieces

[Madspirit]

27. I know I do

I want to snuggle with her.
Lee

[JetCityLiberal]

46. You are a great DUer

Madspirit. A valuable asset on these forums IMHO.

Hang in there. I will stand with you.

The misogyny is disgusting and real.

Paul

[Madspirit]

48. Thank-you Paul!!

It's really appreciated. I guess people don't know or don't care that they can really hurt people even through email and on groups.

Thanks again.
Lee

[sandnsea]

20. That's too bad

I was told I was a warmonger because I corrected someone about the implementation of UN peacekeepers. Really sucks around here sometimes.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

29. What Was Your Username And Why Do You Have A New One Now? Were You Banned?

[DawnIsis]

32. It was heatherdawn no i wasn't banned i have a new user name

because it was a long time ago and everything i have now my blog my email everything is dawnisis. You can check out my blog through my profile if you want.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

36. Oh Ok. Old Name Seems A Bit Familiar To Me But Not Sure. Sorry You Had To Deal With The Crap.

[DawnIsis]

37. I only posted a few times before I left but I have always read DU

it's a great site. :woohoo:

[Clark2008]

42. Amen, sister.

I also think prostitution and pornography degrades women. I was told I was "stupid," when I doubt any of these men ever knew anyone in the industry (I have and I know what it does to them).

However, considering I was ASKED to pose in Playboy a few years back (said "HELL NO!") I can defend against the "ugly" and "low self-esteem" crap - but, the point is that I shouldn't have to.

[Madspirit]

43. It should be up to the hookers.

It was my prostitution poll and I'm not a man and not only have I had many friends in the "industry"...I had a girlfriend who was a hooker. Legalizing it means they DON'T HAVE TO GO TO JAIL.
Lee

[Morgana LaFey]

51. I'm glad you're back -- we can use a little more of your type around

:evilgrin:

But I also hope your skin's a little thicker. The misogyny around here is probably no better than it was back then. BUT, don't feel you have to wage those fights alone. And by all means do use the alert button. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but IMO it's worth a try. Certainly use it anytime you feel personally attacked.

Again, glad you're back.

I have the same opinion you do, btw, and had the occasion recently to read a little on the subject again, and it just validated and confirmed my own opinion all over again.

[Deep13]

3. Wel, I woodnt take no lip frum no chik!

I aint no poosy yoo no.


Psst: It's a control issue for some people.

P.S.
I forgot to mention that you hate men. Someone needed to note that.:silly:

[HockeyMom]

4. Less insidious threats - Viruses

Ok, I will admit there is no comparison between the two, but has anyone experienced the above? I have posted my "liberal" views on blogs: pro choice, pro gay rights, anti war, etc.

About once a week, I have been getting returned mail from one particular email address. Not what I have sent, but what somebody keeps trying to send to me. I can see the address but not the content of the email. Since I have McAfee email virus protection, I can just assume that somebody is trying to send me a virus.

Am I right? Have anyone experienced this?

[Lars39]

5. This brings to mind something I read a long time ago:

FL(Jeb-land) leads the nation in spam-sending. One of those things that make you go *hmmm*.

[Lobster Martini]

7. Message to HockeyMom--Check your spam filter settings.

I am assuming that since you have McAfee rather than Norton AntiVirus, that you're using AOL. Click on safety on the tool bar, then spam controls and sender filter, and you can block that sender.

If it's not AOL, there's probably a similar utility.

[DrunkenMaster]

8. I read this on Buzzflash

and it made me sad and angry. I truly believe a sizeable percentage of the men in this country have been raised to become bloodthirsty psychotics.

I am quite frequently ashamed of the vast majority of my gender in this country.

[Madspirit]

23. Men

Men also suffer from patriarchy. Much. Men have more heart attacks, etc. and I think there is a reason for this. I think they do get more benefits from the inequity but I don't think they escape sexism with no harm.

I will share a little anecdote. My girlfriend and I, (lesbians), were at a flower show in our town. There was a couple with a little boy and a little girl, standing near us. The dad wandered off somewhere. The little boy, who looked about 4, said, "those flowers sure are pretty." The mom...and this is a true story...<g>...the mom grabbed the little boy by the arm so hard I wanted to smack her before any words even came out...and she said..."flowers are for girls. don't EVER say anything like that in front of your father. You are embarrassing." Wow...how to raise a misogynist. He was a tiny little bitty boy and that Idiot Woman From Hell...did that. ...and who knows what dad would have done.

We put expectations on men just as we do on women...that are not right, kind, compassionate or fair. It's sad.
Lee

[REP]

71. #1 Killer of Women: Heart Disease; #2 Lung Cancer

So no, men don't have more heart attacks, though theirs are more likely to be diagnosed and treated more effectively.

[joshcryer]

72. Heart disease is the #1 killer for everyone, men have a much higher chance of dying from it.

http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4591

Anyway, I once read that animals have just so many heartbeats, once you have exhausted a few million, you're dead, doesn't matter what kind of animal you are. Stands to reason that cultural patriarchy is a possible cause. Just the stress of being "caretaker" can add to those heartbeats. The stress of not being able to cry or whatever. I sort of agree with the poster about this.

[joshcryer]

73. BTW, I'm 30 and I have angina.

I really don't expect to live past 40 if I'm lucky. I have a supremely stressful existance.

[Madspirit]

80. Josh...NO!

I don't want you to die before you're 40! Isn't there stuff you can do?
Lee

[Horse with no Name]

74. Women are very underdiagnosed which is the reason

A man goes to the ER with chest pain and he gets a full cardiac workup. A woman goes to the ER with chest pain and she is given something for indigestion or anxiety.
It is well documented that myocardial infarctions present differently in women than they do men, yet in many places you will find physicians who do not respond to the symptoms in women like they do men.
This has always been a persistent problem. Perhaps it is because of latent misogyny which causes a failure to recognize the threat that exists as much or more in women than it does in men.
The myth about a finite number is heartbeats is simply that. A myth.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/409197
>>>snip
Background: Women have excessive mortality rates after acute myocardial infarction compared with men. The extent to which this increased risk can be attributed to differences in treatment is not well-understood.
Methods: This was an observational follow-up study of 1737 patients admitted with acute myocardial infarction for coronary care between January 1, 1988, and December 31, 1997.
Results: Compared with men, women took longer to arrive at the hospital (132.5 minutes vs 120 minutes ; P = .006), were less likely to receive aspirin acutely (87.8% vs 91.3%; P = .03), had longer door-to-needle times (90 minutes vs 78 minutes ; P = .004), and were less likely to be given -blockers at hospital discharge (31.6% vs 44.9%; P < .0001). Estimated survival (95% confidence interval ) at 30 days was only 78.4% (range 74.4% to 81.9%) for women compared with 88.0% (range 86.1% to 89.7%) for men. Women were older and more often white, but their excess risk (hazard ratio 2.09; 95% CI, 1.59-2.75) persisted after adjustment for age, racial group, and diabetes (hazard ratio 1.52; 95% CI, 1.15-2.01). Additional adjustment for emergency thrombolytic and aspirin therapy caused a further small reduction in the excess risk for women (hazard ratio 1.46; 95% CI, 1.09-1.98), but with adjustment for aspirin and -blockers prescribed at discharge, the excess risk attributable to being female disappeared as the hazard ratio fell to 0.75 (95% CI, 0.31-1.84). Estimated 30-day survival free of reinfarction and unstable angina was also lower for women than for men (75% vs 86% ); again, the excess risk for women persisted despite adjustment for age and racial group before disappearing as treatment variables were introduced into the model. The influence of treatment variables on the differential risks for women and men disappeared at 12 months.
Conclusions: This study has shown that women with acute myocardial infarction arrived later at the hospital, were less likely to be given aspirin therapy acutely, had longer door-to-needle times, and, on discharge from the hospital, were less likely to be prescribed -blockers for secondary prevention. The data suggest that the failure to treat women as vigorously as men made a significant contribution to their worse outcome.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10348974&dopt=Abstract
>>>snip
* Wenger NK.

Emory University School of Medicine, Atlanta, Georgia 30303, USA.

Contemporary data define the persisting less favorable outcome for women than men after myocardial infarction. An important contributor is likely lesser application of beneficial therapies. Current outcomes of percutaneous transluminal coronary angioplasty for women have improved, despite its use in older and sicker women, and are comparable with or better than those for men. Although most reports of coronary artery bypass graft surgery continue to document a doubled mortality for women compared with men, recent clinical trial data suggest that elective surgery with improved surgical and perioperative management may constitute determining factors for favorable outcomes.

http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/uvahealth/adult_women/hrtrisk.cfm
>>>snip
It is a myth that heart disease is a man's disease. In fact, one in 14 women aged 45 to 64 has heart disease. One in six women over the age of 65 has heart disease. Currently, 6 million women have heart disease, states the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute of the National Institutes of Health (NIH). Consider the following facts about cardiovascular disease in women:

* Coronary heart disease is the single largest cause of death for females in the United States.
* Almost 16 percent of girls ages six to 19 are overweight, which is a risk factor for heart disease. About 25 percent of girls in grades nine through 12 report using tobacco, which is a risk factor for heart disease.
* At menopause, a woman's heart disease risk starts to increase significantly. Each year, about 88,000 women ages 45 to 64 have a heart attack. Beginning at age 50, more women than men have elevated cholesterol.
* Each year, about 372,000 women age 65 and older have a heart attack. About 21 million women age 60 and older have high blood pressure. The average age for women to have a first heart attack is about 70, and women are more likely than men to die within a few weeks of a heart attack.
* About 35 percent of women who have had a heart attack will have another within six years.

[Madspirit]

78. Thanks for the Info HWNN

Scary!
Lee

[Madspirit]

77. ?

Heart disease is also the number one killer of men.
They also have a shorter lifespan but that may be in the genes not the life.
I'm mainly pointing out that everyone suffers under a patriarchy. Women suffer more.
Lee

[Madspirit]

11. k&r...HWNN...n/t

[bleedingheart]

26. nothing intimidates some men like smart women..

I have no idea what is the issue but there are some men out there that just can't stand a woman with an opinion of her own or who is successful...

I am a woman in a male dominated profession and I can't tell you the nastiness I have encountered...

[Madspirit]

31. Rosie

Look how people responded to Rosie on the view. They didn't just politely disagree with her opinion. They totally slammed her. Large, in-your-face, outspoken, unintimidated, opinionated women...really irk "some" people....
Lee

[Horse with no Name]

75. You are correct

A heavyset, intelligent woman is threatening.
Look at the comments that were made by Trump "Rosie is ugly on the inside AND on the outside" as if that justifies his position.

[Nikki Stone1]

33. And some people think Cho (VT) was an aberration

Male violence toward women is everywhere. Women have to get savvy about tracking these bastards down and informing authorities. I wonder if there is an online course on tracking down ISPs.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

38. Cho was an aberration.

Just a random lunatic who committed a random act of violence.

[Marie26]

39. History of stalking women

Began the massacre by shooting a female student. In the two other recent school shootings, both gunmen only shot female students. It's not an aberration.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

40. He also wrote disturbing plays, hated the wealthy...

and compared himself to Jesus.

Cho's first victim was a female student, the second victim was a male student, he showed no sexual preference in his victims, and the initial reports that he was romantically involved with his first victim have been debunked.

[Madspirit]

44. Cho was mentally ill

Probably schizophrenic and people knew this young man needed help since he was a TINY LITTLE BITTY BOY and no one did a fucking thing. He fell through the cracks before he even had a chance.

We mentally ill...there are a lot of us. Quit ignoring us until we shoot up a school.
Lee

[joshcryer]

41. This is the internet.

I've been harrassed and stalked on many ocassions by people who didn't like me (not necessarily under my name but under various pseudonyms). It's easy enough to fight back against, or ignore. The key is not playing victim, not submitting to this role of "inferior," or "object," but to hold strong.

Internet stalking is very very common, it gets bad when it turns in to real life. There are whole communities focused on stalking "unique" people on the internet. I'd mention the most destructive community but the last time I did that (on IRC no less!) I was stalked and harrassed for days by these assholes. They tend to do Google searches for their names and any negative criticism gets noticed very quickly.

[Morgana LaFey]

47. Has anyone threatened to rape you? Slit your throat & ejaculate?

Please don't be dismissive of the toll those types of threats can take, OR dismissive of the fact that as a male YOU are most likely going to feel much differently than most women feel about being stalked or physically threatened.

It's fine to be all bravado about it (and dismissive of them if they're frightened), but you're not in their shoes. You're male (and likely bigger and stronger than most of us, and definitely much less a target than ALL of us); they're not.

You can't even imagine the chasm between us (men vs. women) in situations like this -- how this kind of thing affects us (and sure that will vary from woman to woman, but I'm talking in generalities, the majorities).

Women are always having to be mindful of our relative lack of safety and lack of protection in a misogynist world. Every day we have to be mindful and often curtail many of our actions and activities because we are unsafe AS WOMEN. Most of this "curtailing" goes on subconsciously, so ingrained is our need to do so. In such an atmosphere, these kinds of threat make our perennial lack of safety a very real and immediate thing.

[Madspirit]

49. Thank-you Morgana!

Some people really don't get the threat, the feel of the threat, the reality of the threat because they are NEVER...almost...rape victims. They take their security for granted. It merely irks and annoys them.
Lee

[joshcryer]

52. YES, absolutely.

I have had people threaten me with murder, I have had people FIND OUT WHERE I LIVE (I'm much more cautious about it these days), come to my house with baseball bats (when I lived in Louisiana) just because I thought they were racist pricks.

Don't diminish the power of women and their ability to protect themselves and push back. The point I was making was that the internet makes it a hell of a lot easier to deal with people (just consider all the people coming at me because I hold an imperfect opinion here). There are a bunch of subcultures that are continually harrased by groups on the internet. Once it gets into real life then you have issues, otherwise you are just part of any group who manages to get the attention (like myself) of groups who feel like harrassing you for whatever reason. That's the internet. No dismissiveness here at all, merely putting the issue into context.

[Morgana LaFey]

83. So the answer is NO. You haven't been threatened with rape.

Or with having your throat slit as some re-enactment of a snuff film or something.

You're not only dismissive of many women's feelings about this, you're dismissive of my direct question. I don't know how much clearer it can be. And the amazing thing is, YOU think you're not. :shrug:

[BlooInBloo]

62. Curious: there are a fair number of women who object to your characterization...

... on the grounds of "it perpetuates victim-thinking" or related grounds (so they say).

How do women who *agree* with your characterization respond to *women* who object to your characterization?


(For what it's worth: I myself became eye-openingly aware of the difference between the world boys live in and the world girls live in when I went out to get smokes at 3am one night, and my girlfriend told me to be careful. I responded "why?". Then I understood the difference between us somewhat.)

[Morgana LaFey]

84. I have no idea how other women who agree with my characterization

would respond to those women.

There is very little in this world that applies to all women or all men, or even all humans. So each woman's response to something like this -- or indeed anything at all -- is going to be a little different. And yet there are commonalities and things that are going to apply to a good many women, or even a majority of women.

I don't think a majority of women -- even very strong and resilient and even physically commanding women -- are going to be completely against my characterization. I think most women would understand what I'm saying, at some level, in varying degrees. But if they do, I think they're wrong AND uncharitable and lacking in insight and compassion about the rest of their sisters. They may not be wrong for themselves and some of the others -- that's for them to decide -- but their attitudes are cruel and uncomprehending to many women.

I found your anecdote extraordinarily powerful. Thank you for sharing that insight. You see, it WORKS for men-as-patriarchy's-beneficiaries (and therefore usually supporters) for women to be subtly and continuously terrorized about the threat of physical violence against them.

And many women just don't think of it that way. I've always been a fairly "strong" woman, and never thought of myself as a victim or even potential victim much, but that doesn't mean that I've never been frightened or overly concerned at various times in my life -- and not because of a real threat or a specific threat.

What I'm saying is, it took me a lot of thinking to come to the realization: why should *I* have to live my life being careful and cautious about my physical well-being in situations few if any men EVER have to be careful about. That IS the very definition of 2nd Class Citizen: when your activities have to be unequal and less than those of the real citizens. If I am made to feel that I risk rape or other violent assaults in situtions where men do not, THAT is 2nd Class Citizenship.

Lotta women don't see that, have never thought about it that way. We've just been acculturated to put up with it, that's "just the way things are." Well, there are a lot of things today that are DIFFERENT from the old sexist ways that once upon a time were "just the way things are," and now we need to add a few more, such as the violence against women. But it'll take men who are willing to confront their comrades for that to happen. Women will never be able to change that on our own.

There's a thread right now on the probable rape of a young female troop in Iraq. In it (several posts down, IIRC), there's a remark from an officer that shows what happens to uppity women, and the important place violence against women still plays in our culture. Here's the thread:

The Army Says It Was Suicide, Her Father Thinks She Might Have Been Raped & Murdered
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x802359#803935

[windy252]

45. K & R

I've heard about the women writing about politics getting threatening emails, but I don't see how designing software that makes others feel happy would make someone feel angry.

[jpgray]

53. So what? Isn't violent grammatically challenged threat a universal plague of the internet?

The threats are shocking and ugly, yeah, but how is this any different from standard troglodyte internet anonymity syndrome other than the use of sexual threats? The noose stuff is actually pretty tame in comparison to other fantasy death threats that go out on a daily basis online. As for the sexual threats, it's just another form of the vague internet hate mail. DU has had a few "Who will make Karl Rove his bitch in prison? LOLZ" posts.

Threatening obscene, hyperbolic harm and suffering online to express disagreement is not limited to women and has been around for a loooong time. Rape is extremely ugly, but so is murder, torture, etc., and all those are par for the course as far as hate mail. The use of sexually assaultive "punishment" fantasies is readily explained by people wanting to scare or express their hatred for the person they disagree with in the most vile, abhorrent terms possible. If the target is a woman, it doesn't surprise me a bit that this avenue would be used.

Why should this be seen any differently than the standard hideous nutjob threatgram? Am I missing something?

[omega minimo]

58. What you're missing is the nature of the perpetrators

"Why should this be seen any differently than the standard hideous nutjob threatgram? Am I missing something?"

"The threats are shocking and ugly, yeah, but how is this any different from standard troglodyte internet anonymity syndrome other than the use of sexual threats?"

Who's doing it?

"As for the sexual threats, it's just another form of the vague internet hate mail."

Who's sending it?

"Threatening obscene, hyperbolic harm and suffering online to express disagreement is not limited to women and has been around for a loooong time."

By "not limited to women" you mean 'not limited to being directed at women' but who's doin the directing?

"Rape is extremely ugly, but so is murder, torture, etc., and all those are par for the course as far as hate mail."

Who's sending hate mail where "rape is par for the course"?

"The use of sexually assaultive "punishment" fantasies is readily explained by people wanting to scare or express their hatred for the person they disagree with in the most vile, abhorrent terms possible."

"People"? What "people"?


Your point is women and men are the victims of this crap-- but who are the perpetrators? What percentage of the senders do you think are male and what percentage female?

Be honest.

:hi:





http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/ptech/s...

As women gain visibility in the blogosphere, they are targets of sexual harassment and threats. Men are harassed too, and lack of civility is an abiding problem on the Web. But women, who make up about half the online community, are singled out in more starkly sexually threatening terms -- a trend that was first evident in chat rooms in the early 1990s and is now moving to the blogosphere, experts and bloggers said.

[joshcryer]

61. There's one website in particular you may be interested in.

It's called Encyclopedia Dramatica, led by all sorts, a female most notably, whereby the users go around making fun of everything from the Virginia Tech murders, to Feminists, to retarded people, black people, you name it.

They tend to go around and stir up trouble whenever they can. And they are known to do this very sort of thing. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the person in particular made it on to that website in the past few days.

It's likely that the "percentage" of people doing this is male, but that is an unknown really. And I don't see where it has very much basis in the final fact that this is an internet thing.

[joshcryer]

64. Yep, she's on there.

http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Kathy_Sierra

Lovely, eh? That site is a wonder to behold. The absolute depths of the internet. Feel free to get an IRC client and go into the chatroom where males and females alike run rampant over this sort of thing.

[omega minimo]

66. I'm not interested

in any comment from you.

Thank you.

[joshcryer]

67. Oh, sorry.

Well at least other people can see that this is from ED, and in fact, given that they took a screenshot of the abuse, Kathy is almost 100% their latest victim. Too bad she couldn't combat them as I have in the past. Sheesh.

[jpgray]

69. I don't have a quarrel with you there. Men are far more aggressive with their behavior

As to who has those violent, nasty fantasies more, I really couldn't say--hard to know for sure what goes on in people's heads. It's certainly true though, as you say, that men seem to express their violent, nasty fantasies far more often--that we have evidence for. But that wasn't my point--my point was that hyperbolic hatemail is par for the course on the internet. I personally know someone who has received a death threat including the phrase "I'm going to rape your skull"--but of course, the recipient of this threat was male. The story here is that deranged males alter their attack pattern slightly with regard to females online, using the horror of rape as a tool. It's still the same general fuckwitted behavior, though. If it isn't rape, it's some other over-the-top Tysonesque bluster like "I'm going to eat his children" or something. The more shocking, the more offensive, the better.

[joshcryer]

70. I've dealt with these types for a really long time.

And the one thing that is interesting about their 'circles' is that they are diverse, you will find anyone from any walk of life participating in these antics. They are essentially impervious to being attacked, but when it comes to articulate people they tend to have no capacity to attack. They always attack people who come off as weak, and those who do cow out just perpetuate the behavior. It's all about entertainment. And I feel that in this instance the trolls won. :(

Check out my link to ED, they clearly are the perpetuators of this act. And the person in question may be a male or female, I'm not sure.

[Morgana LaFey]

85. Yes, you're missing a lot

It's not possible to make rape and other sexually violent threats equivalent to non-sexually violent threats. I find your attempt to do so dismissive in a way that denies women's unique vantage point and both emotional and physical vulnerability, and therefore sexist.

Let me say it another way: as a man, you apparently have absolutely no ability to empathize with the particular and unique emotional, psychological, mental and possibly physical impact of such a threat of sexual violence on most women.

Your willingness to dismiss the reality of these kinds of harm as no big thing is, AFAIC, yet another form of violence. Your inability to realize that most women are in reality typically physically less capable of dealing with these threats (because they are in general less strong and less muscular), and emotionally and psychologically not as well prepared to deal with them because they've not been raised and acculturated to go to physical battle against adversaries is offensive as well.

Your comments are just plain offensive all the way around.

[Lerkfish]

54. it is a no-brainer that this is reprehensible, vile and just plain wrong.

I have often lamented that (hopefully) small part of my gender that acts or threatens to act in such a small-minded and small-hearted way against women. They do not speak for me and they do not represent me. And even though I have nothing to do with their heinous attitudes and acts, I apologize collectively for them and the direct damage they perpetrate against women and the indirect damage they commit by association to men as a whole.

[BlooInBloo]

56. The downside of men+anonymity. :(

[joshcryer]

57. One of the biggest trolling groups on "teh internets" is 'led' by a female.

It's not just men.

[BlooInBloo]

59. Who said it was "just men"? (Hint to the illiterate: not me.)

[joshcryer]

60. I didn't say anyone said it was "just men."

I was just making sure it was understood that this is a problem inherent to the internet. I've had to deal with it on a continual basis at one point. There are just some people you don't piss off on "teh internets."

Dunno what the illiterate comment is all about.

[BlooInBloo]

63. Ok - then you're responding to something that was never said, suggested, or implied. Thanks!

EDIT: Stupid subject typos - bah.

[joshcryer]

65. Do you know about the internet trolling groups?

I thought I'd just enlighten some people.

[joshcryer]

68. This is an ED hit job.

Check it out: http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Kathy_Sierra

They even took screenshot of what they call the 'lulz.' They think it's funny to go around harrassing people on the internet.

[Horse with no Name]

76. I think everyone "gets" that you don't think it is a big deal

However, it is NOT an editorial. It is from the Dallas Morning News (last I looked a recognized publication) and you want to dispute THAT with Encyclopedia Dramatica? Puleeze.:rofl:

[cooolandrew]

81. I would say that the net is very safe for anomyity, as long as you don't give out your location.

[BlooInBloo]

82. Sometimes this phenomenon has a 1/2-decent ending....

http://www.qj.net/WoW-player-harrasses-woman-in-game-gets-beat-up-by-woman-s-husband-IRL/pg/49/aid/91058

"Bronco Carson, a World of Warcraft player from Mexico, reported to police on Saturday that three men broke into his home and beat his arms with clubs and totalled his computer. The reason? Carson had been repeatedly ganking the WoW character of the wife of one of his assailants.

Carson reportedly told police that he had been "making it hard for her to get far in the game." The woman had already threatened Carson online, and Carson said that he had already been constantly harassed in-game two weeks prior to the attack.

And then Carson made the mistake of giving the woman his address, telling the woman that "if her husband was man enough to just come meet me to settle this.""