Black Women See Fewer Black Men at the Altar

[alp227]

Source: The New York Times

It is a familiar lament of single African-American women: where are the “good” black men to marry?

A new study shows that more and more black men are marrying women of other races. In fact, more than 1 in 5 black men who wed (22 percent) married a nonblack woman in 2008. This compares with about 9 percent of black women, and represents a significant increase for black men — from 15.7 percent in 2000 and 7.9 percent in 1980.

Sociologists said the rate of black men marrying women of other races further reduces the already-shrunken pool of potential partners for black women seeking a black husband.

“When you add in the prison population,” said Prof. Steven Ruggles, director of the Minnesota Population Center, “it pretty well explains the extraordinarily low marriage rates of black women.”

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/04/us/04interracial.html

---

Why'd he have to bring up the prison population? Oh yeah, I realized, black men usually get convicted of drug crimes that white men usually get away with. But nonetheless this is an interesting study in American race relations.

[ZombieHorde]

1. "more and more black men are marrying women of other races"

Excellent news. Humans are not mature enough to handle different ethnicities, "inter-racial" breeding should take of this.

[xultar]

4. ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS. I'M LOOKING AT BEING ALONE FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE.

Because non black men are hesitant to marry a black woman and black men won't.

So don't fucking make snide ignorant ass remarks about some serious shit like this.

You should really get some education on the issue befor chiming in with bullshit like that.

Looking at being alone and never knowing love is some tough shit. I have gay friends who date more than I do.

I can't believe someone from the GLBT community would make such an insensitive remark about a group of people having issues finding love.

This doesn't really have to do with people not being able to handle interracial dating. It has to do with many issues. The availability of eligible partners education business hiring practices the criminalization of black men, salaries and compensation...
:grr:

[Prometheus Bound]

6. "Black men won't?" 78% do according to the OP.

[Raineyb]

49. You have no fucking clue what the numbers are like do you?

No clue whatsoever.

[Prometheus Bound]

62. I know there's a fair difference between "black men won't" and "78% of black men will"

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Prometheus Bound]

76. Where on earth did you get 'callousness' from that?

Fine, let's assume our readers are incredibly stupid and make no assumptions at all.

I objected to the writer's exaggeration that black men won't marry a black women.

According to the OP, 78% of black men who do marry, marry a black woman.

So there is no need to be so rude.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[glowing]

10. Not to be rude and forget about snapping one's fingers and making our

laws and society just in one second... Figure out who you are interested in.. Try some internet dating.. Match dating... AND if you see a non-black or black male that you are interested in, why don't you approach first? I guess living in FL is such a melting pot that it is very natural to see so many mixed marriages and families. I suppose if you don't live in a place where its more diverse, it may be harder to accept trying to date interacially. Honestly, in 50 to 100 yrs, most of the US will have beautiful shades of brown as a predominant feature.. AND our English language will change to represent a merge of Spanish/ English. Its already starting with crossing over... I'm very white, but call my little son Poppi.. many men and women will call me mammi (more of a respect thing for being a nice person with endearing qualities). I will walk into a room and say Hola, Que Pasa? And someone else will say, "not much, how are you?" So there will be a merge of the languages.

As for our insane Drug laws, draconian lock-em-up practices, and disgusting treatment of "others" has got to change. We need to embrace one another as human beings. Learn to accept the great qualities of one another's heritages because most of us came from somewhere to arrive to this continent and add to this great experiment called the United States of America. AND realize that our economic engine can change without destroying the Constitution or our principles... Recognizing that Capitalism in its form is destroying the ability to pull the best out of all of our people's and the potential of greatness. Could you imagine if Public Universities could be "Public" and if you test/ qualify for a certain program, you could go all the way? Similarly.. with "trade" schools that help teach technical skills. A leg up to begin life without debt that normally enslaves people to the system of Capitalism and creates so much division, fear, and unhappiness.

I wish you the best. I don't believe the other poster was trying to be trite. Open your heart and mind and pursue those who may actually catch your fancy. Some men are shy, sometimes you have to initiate the forward invitation that you are interested. They may not be interested... and then again, that shy man could be your future husband. I wish you all the luck in finding your special person. He's out there for you. Open up your heart.

[Demeter]

14. My Dear, It's No Easier On the Other Side of the Spectrum

There aren't enough eligible men of ANY race for the female population--and by eligible I mean capable of developing and sustaining a marriage.

My theory is that male "privilege" deprives men of the spurs to grow into human beings capable of giving and receiving commitment and surviving trauma.

When one is a "demi-god" in one's family and society, what need has one for "lesser" beings? Women, children, relations, they are all interchangeable- -like furniture. Tired of your couch? Spilled a little too much beer on it? Leave it on the curb, somebody wants it and will pick it up...

Tired of your family or spouse? Obligations of a relationship getting in the way of your life? Leave those dependents on the curb--Uncle Sam will pick them up. And you can bitch about your taxes, too!

But then, when the Man is unemployed, or disabled, or otherwise loses his god-like status, and STILL has no skills at living in a social situation, then there's the rapid decline to a frog.

And after 25, there are damn few princesses willing to kiss a frog.

[yella_dawg]

21. Yeah, men have no desire for companionship, a nurturing home, that sort of stuff.

We're too busy enjoying all our privileges.

[KittyWampus]

26. Men often can't recognize how society is geared exclusively for them.

[yella_dawg]

27. Yes.

I'm quite clueless.

Totally oblivious.

[Demeter]

39. I Said Nothing About Desire--I Address Competence

The ability to understand simple English, for example. To hear what is said, to understand, and to respond appropriately. To learn, to grow, to be open to another point of view, something more than mere empathy.

Some men have all the desire in the world, so long as it's all take and no give.

[Codeine]

42. That inability is, in my experience, a human failing

moreso than a masculine failing.

[Zix]

136. Quite so. Men generally have comprehension difficulties.

Take me for example, I, for one, have no idea what you're talking about.

[lumberjack_jeff]

32. I'm confused. Are you frustrated because it's hard to find dates...

... or are you complaining about irresponsible and entitled (or unemployed and therefore frog-like) men, who in either case are not really human beings?

Surely you aren't doing both at the same time.

[Demeter]

40. See above reply.

[lumberjack_jeff]

44. With all due respect

Think twice before giving Xultar dating advice. Many straight women have successfully found companionship among the subhuman frogs.

[xultar]

43. I will not date a man who is capable of working but won't. I don't care how rich or attractive or u

I don't do lazy. I'll date and have dated waiters, mechanics, bus drivers, janitors, taxi drivers, and will continue.
I've dated a Muslim a Jew an Asian white black latino, I'm not a snob nor dobi think myself too good. I'd even date an ex con but I'm not sure if a murder or a rapist or child molester would get my digits.

My problem is that the numbers of non black men who would want to marry or be a life time companion to a black woman are small. The number is growing but still small. I think living in ATL is also causing me an issue. I'm considering moving to CA or Chicago.

[lumberjack_jeff]

45. I wouldn't either. A woman's gotta earn her keep. I don't kiss frogs.

Unless I miss my guess, that will raise hackles that the inverse won't.

[Hello_Kitty]

92. It won't raise mine so long as you're consistent.

If you claim women should work out of one side of your mouth while claiming women in the workforce take jobs from men out of the other, then we got problems.

[lumberjack_jeff]

95. First, the post was sarcastic.

People can contribute to family well-being in several different ways, not necessarily working outside the house. I can understand not wanting to hook up with lazy people, but I don't think employment status is a reliable indicator of that.

Second, the workforce, and all the careers within it should be open to people of either gender.

------------------

edited to minimize the likelihood of topic drift

[New Dawn]

133. Who at DU claims that "women in the workforce take jobs from men"?

[RedRoses323]

57. Moving is a good idea xultar....

Chicago is great (My hometown is Milwaukee, WI). I have always been an Equal Opportunity Dater, prior to my marriage in 1995 - my husband is white.

Blessings to you my dear :hug:

On another note: It's time for the hubby and I to go our separate ways...... :crazy:

[frustrated_lefty]

66. Philadelphia is a very progressive city....

[RedRoses323]

84. I've never been to Philadelphia---

Interesting :hi:

[Hawkowl]

75. The South is a problem

You have my sympathies. I would indeed recommend a move. I grew up outside Chicago (In between Gary and the Southside) and now live on the west coast. I also travel all over the country every month. I view the deep south as more foreign feeling than Canada, or even Australia! You would have much better odds in Chicago or even in Wisconsin! (But I think you'd feel much better in Chicago). I lived in the city for several years and loved it. Good luck to you.

[frustrated_lefty]

81. Have you considered that economic segregation plays a role?

[Hawkowl]

93. Oh most definitely

I am quite familiar with the economic history of Chicago and Gary Indiana and the way immigrant communities were played off against other by the rich owners. In fact I view most of America's problems as a result of "economic segregation" (an apparent euphemism that can cover slavery, Native American genocide, etc.) However, it does not relieve the responsibility of individuals to overcome institutional and societal pressures towards racism.

[Regret My New Name]

77. Your standards are too high!

What did lazy people ever do to you? NOTHING! We're too lazy to do anything. ;)

[varelse]

80. Come out here to cali

but you'll probably want to stick to the coast - inland is a whole different world.

[awoke_in_2003]

100. that is sad...

while it is the person that counts, my preference with skin tone has always been darker. I do not care for pasty white blondes or redheads.

[Confusious]

70. privileges?

When did we get those? Is this something no one told me about AGAIN? Kind of like no one told me I needed CREDITS to graduate from high school?

It takes two to tango.

As a demotivational poster said:

"The one common link in all your failed relationships is YOU"

I'm still working on the the reasons.

[adoraz]

113. someones having relationship issues

don't take it out on men.

there are plenty of men out there for you, you just have to better yourself in whatever way to find the right relationship.

in college, I was extremely shy and had trouble finding a decent woman. i kept blaming females... my friends would always bring over trashy girls, and after a while I started thinking all girls were like that. those were the only ones I knew, because I was too shy to go out and meet them on my own.

after I overcame my shyness, I found a lot of girls who were similar to me and good for a relationship.

there are millions of people out there. you're not looking hard enough.

[IronLionZion]

152. I hope that happens for me soon

I'm too shy to approach women so that makes things difficult and lonely. How did you get over your shyness?

[bliss_eternal]

121. great points.

society in general teaches many women that any man is better than no man at all. there are no exceptions made for employment, disability or anything else. heck, some have made songs about it....stand by your man ring any bells?

;)

[Name removed]

132. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[web978]

15. I am nonblack, I find black women highly attractive!

Very marriageable material :)


www.irondragonfilms.com

[xultar]

47. I live in ATL and I have 5 vhihuahuas. Send me a PM!

[SoCalDem]

63. Um... maybe it's the chihuahuas

:rofl:

joking:)

I do understand your problem...finding the right person is hard enough, and when the availability is an issue, it's harder.. Our middle son is our only unmarried one, and he's finding that as he ages, it's not as easy as it used to be. Women his age often have ex-husbands, kids, baggage-galore. He's realized that he now has to change his outlook, and be ready to accept "complicated" women :)

He was always the guy who "dated younger", but now that he's 32, he suddenly finds the younger women less interesting, and he's starting to have less in common with the,.. we TOLD him :)

[keroro gunsou]

54. i was once called

almighty whitey because i'm so white bread someone tried to spread butter on me....

that said, i find all women attractive. color doesn't factor into it. personality matters more to me.

if i could find a woman that doesn't mind me staying at home and doing the traditional homemaker role while i work freelance and likes football and video gaming, then i'd be set.

oddly enough it's not the video games that's the dealbreaker, it's the fact i have no problem with what some people consider to be "woman's work." it's work period and it's gotta get done, don't matter if you're a man or a woman.

[ZombieHorde]

16. I did not mean to applaud your lonelyness or one of its causes.

You are right, I did not consider all of the consequences of the article. I considered the positive aspects while being blind the negative. This simplistic view caused me to create an insensitive post and I apologize.

[xultar]

24. Don't get me wrong. I date everyone, anyone who asks even I ask. But finding love for a

black woman is tough. Mainly because of non black men don't consider us as companions and life partners. One night stands and curiosities but when it comes to marriage we are not on the list.

That is some tough shit to swallow.

Sorry for getting off the handle. This is a touchy subject with many black women.

[ZombieHorde]

34. Thanks for understanding I wasn't trying to be callous.

I was just blissfully unaware. I hope you find a good husband.

[Leftist Agitator]

67. "Mainly because of non black men don't consider us as companions and life partners."

Well, that's pretty racist.

"One night stands and curiosities but when it comes to marriage we are not on the list."

And that is extremely fucking racist.

What the hell is your problem with non-African American men?

[frustrated_lefty]

79. I won't go so far as to call it racist...

I think male interest in one night stands is less a racial thing and more a gender thing? Guys, young guys in particular, are horny. It's hard to place a racial tag on that.

It still sucks, no matter the race or gender involved.

Are you possibly assuming that non-African American men are more devoted or inclined towards long-term relations? Apply the same filters you use towards guys in general to determine who is serious and who is not. You'll probably be happier in the long run.

[AspenRose]

142. Actually, there's lots of truth to that. Not racist.

That's been the bulk of my experience as well. In college I ran into a LOT of white guys who may have expressed an interest, but never in a serious relationship kind of way. Basically they wanted to fuck. They had "Jungle Fever" or something...wanted to know what it was like to be with a black girl, see if the sexual stereotypes were legit (If you aren't aware of the typical pattern of black women stereotypes, google "Jezebel," "Mammy," and "Sapphire," for starters). But going home to meet the parents was another story entirely. Hell, even when I was in high school (and it was a predominately white school) every once in a while I'd get the 'confession:' "I like you, and think you're cool/would love to take you out, BUT MY PARENTS...." Or they were too worried about what their white friends would think (yes, I've heard that one too). Didn't want to be accused of being a "n*****-lover."

All the while, black guys were passing me up and dating white girls.

Then too, this was Texas in the 80s, so...

that was my personal experience. Ironic then, that I ended up marrying a white guy anyhow! I never closed myself off from non-black men, even after those early experiences, so that would hardly make me (or the poster you're referring to) racist.

It is very difficult for black women. Add to the mix that we are routinely not considered "beautiful" or "desirable" *by mainstream societal standards* unless we look like Beyonce or Halle Berry (do I REALLY have to mention that moron John Mayer here?), and are constantly stereotyped as being loud, ignorant, difficult, obnoxious, ugly buffoons that even the BLACK men are running away from. I'm assuming you aren't a black woman, and if you aren't, you really should consider showing more sensitivity, empathy and respect on the subject instead of issuing a knee-jerk accusation of racism, since the black women speaking up in this thread are speaking from their own personal experiences. If you want to dismiss or ignore what they have screwed up the courage to say in exchange for how you THINK things are, or how you THINK they ought to be, that's your choice (and we can't help you). Why so hostile about someone else's personal experiences?

It ceases to shock anymore, whenever black people comment on a race-related topic in the hopes of enlightenment and dialogue, some white person will inevitably accuse them of 1) not knowing what they're talking about or 2) being racist. Which is one of the (many) reasons I rarely hang out here anymore.

[AspenRose]

147. It's too late to edit, but I also thought of two more things.

1. Since I grew up in the 80s, I can think of a media example using a white 80s band:

If you look at Duran Duran's video "Rio," the white woman is the lofty, desirable one, being pursued to the point of men willingly looking like idiots. But in "Hungry Like the Wolf," the black woman is to be hunted down and conquered (and supposedly she will put up a wild fight doing so). White woman = unattainable goddess, black woman = animal to be hunted down and subdued.

(Of course I won't go into the misogyny of black rap groups and how they treat black women; that's another discussion for another time, but that imagery doesn't help, either.)

2. I was friends with my husband for 5-6 years before I married him. So that's how I knew he was interested in me as a person, and not as a booty call, curiosity or freak of nature.

[Number23]

170. I don't know how the hell I missed this thread but this is a fantastic post.

[bliss_eternal]

108. is this based on something someone said...

...stereotypes, or some isolated comments made on boards like this one? :shrug:

i've certainly seen my share of comments on-line from bigots. but i've also seen many men of various racial backgrounds express interest in "women." period. they are open to women of races outside of their own for serious relationships.

quote:
Mainly because of non black men don't consider us as companions and life partners.

[Truth2Tell]

120. very classy post Zombie nt

[ZombieHorde]

123. I can usually admit when I make a mistake. nt

[IronLionZion]

17. My white liberal ex-gf cheated on me constantly and treated me badly so I'm available

just saying.... ;) I think I'm done with privileged elitist women who treat dark men like we don't matter.

[Sebastian Doyle]

118. Well, if it's any consolation.....

they treat a lot of white men the same way. :evilfrown:

[IronLionZion]

149. Haha, I know

I think it has much more to do with privilege and entitlement than anything else. An attractive and openly sexual white woman who is attracted to Indian men is going to have lots of guys approaching her constantly, which can make it more likely to cheat and take her partner for granted. Her defense was "Do you have any idea how many guys I've turned down every day?".

Its the same deal with Tiger Woods and his blondes.

[OhioChick]

159. That's terrible........

You should've kicked her ass to the curb the first time you found out about her cheating.

Never put up with that again. :(

[IronLionZion]

163. I forgave her when I first found out

She had been seeing me for 3 months before she decided to tell me about these other guys she was seeing behind my back and lying about where she was. That was a very difficult day and I had a hard time trusting her after that. She said everything would have been better if she had kept hiding it. Then she said that was when she knew she loved me and wanted the relationship to work.

But after being with her for a year, I found out she was doing it again and lying to me "because she didn't want to hurt me" I just told her I deserve better and we need to break up.

There were many other things too. She really seemed to disrespect me.

[OhioChick]

164. Wow....There were other things, too??

That seemed like enough there to let her go. Count your blessings that you broke up with her when you did. While I'm sure it was difficult, you're better off without her in the long run. Can you imagine being with her for years and then finding all of that out? She'll never change, obviously. You deserve better.

Never stay with anyone that could care less about your feelings, it'll never work, no matter how hard you try.

Get yourself out there! I'm sure that you'll find someone that treats you well. :)

[IronLionZion]

188. Yup, and it hasn't turned me off white liberal women either, I view people as individuals

sure it was very tough to leave someone I love because there was strong emotional attachment. Things like this can seem so obvious to someone on the outside but the people inside a relationship will have their judgment clouded by emotion. I still stay in touch with her as friends and realize it was foolish to expect such a person to be in a normal relationship. She's kind of a free-loving hippie woman who will meet guys online or at parties who seem lonely and she'll sleep with them "to help them" or "because it felt right". She would have never told me about it if they guys hadn't told her to come clean. I don't judge her but I know she's wrong for me.

I need someone who is more closer to my personality and values. I'm sure I'll find someone soon enough.

Thanks for listening! :)

[seabeyond]

18. yup. nt

[KittyWampus]

25. Your post highlights the point where cultural benefits sometimes seemingly conflict

with individual desires.

BTW, I'm alone too. Oh, I have cats. Who thought I'd end up as one of those ladies. Of course, life isn't over and I know other couples who met even at older ages than myself.

Everything is a trade-off.

[Tailormyst]

37. I can't imagine how much that must suck

[xultar]

48. It is so hard. It is depressing. I'm considering moving to CA to increase

my prospects.

[Leftist Agitator]

68. Are you over 30?

Because that will play a larger role in "marriageability" than any racial issues.

Noticably overweight? Same thing.

Perhaps your problem is your seeming insistance on getting married. You can have a long, happy, fulfilling relationship without tying the knot, you know.

[Tailormyst]

87. I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you are not a black woman

[AsahinaKimi]

169. Come to San Francisco!

It might be right up your alley in many ways, even politically! And..pssst. We got great food here! (Yeah, its expensive to live here, but worth it!) Or..the Bay Area, if you don't want to live in the city.

[MadMaddie]

171. Hey whats wrong with Seattle?

Seriously, I hope that you find that special guy. :-)

[MadMaddie]

74. Where do you live?

I wonder if it has to do with the region of America that is lived in?

[bliss_eternal]

104. good point, MadMaddie...!

...it seems some of these ideas are more prevalent among people who grew up in certain regions of America. AA's who grew up w/elders who remember and survived pre-civil rights days, are especially adamant about certain ideas (i.e. lack of trust of other races, etc.)

[totodeinhere]

107. So are you saying non black women will marry black men but non black men won't marry black woman?

Because non black men are hesitant to marry a black woman and black men won't.

That just doesn't make any sense to me. Why is that? Is it because non black women tend to be less prejudiced than non black men? Sorry, I just don't understand.

And why do you say black men won't marry black women? I don't get that either.

[goclark]

155. xultar thank you for clearing it up

:fistbump:
You always know how to " Make It Plain" and "Keep It Real."

Two of my friends have married White men the Second time around --they are both extremely happy.

Not saying that they were looking for a White Man, they just happened to find someone that made them happy.

My cousin has been married 4 times - Black, Mexican, Black and now he is married to his " Swedish Bomb Shell" ~ she is very nice and I hope this one works.

[Raschel]

161. Hang in there. My Black daughter married a WONDERFUL Black man.

Forget the stats and let your beautiful self shine. Someone will see what a gem you are and snatch you up!

[KamaAina]

189. Not all non-black men are hesitant to marry a black woman

Counterexample: yours truly. :loveya:

[struggle4progress]

2. You know, back in January I skidded off the road into a snow drift

It took a bit of time and kitty litter to get back out. Nearly everybody drove by without doing anything but gawking at me tossing handfuls of kitty litter under the wheels. That's OK: it's the South; they didn't know any better; and I wasn't in any trouble. The only person who stopped was a pretty black woman who wanted to see if she could help me. Stupidly, I said, "No, but thanks for stopping." We chatted briefly, and a minute after she drove off, it hit me: I shoulda asked her if she would marry me

[bliss_eternal]

105. lol.

...after a 5 minute chat? wow.

that's cute. :rofl:

[Democat]

3. Interesting statistics.

22% of black men in 2008 married a non-black woman. Only 9% of black women married a non-black man.

[XemaSab]

9. I know I'm about to step in it so please be kind

That being said, I would be curious about the socioeconomic reasons for this.

Maybe members of the black middle and upper class are not meeting each other because most of them work (and socialize) with nonblacks, especially in smaller cities?

[KittyWampus]

28. also, maybe younger generations are becoming increasingly color=blind and are attracted

to individuals. :)

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

30. I had a long-term relationship with a professional black woman

and I think the single greatest issue was immense pressure that she was to pair up with another black professional into perfect power couples with perfect careers and perfect kids. I had a great relationship with her father and older brother, her mother on the other hand hated me and did the obnoxious gesture at gatherings, glaring at us and tapping her wrist which was explained to me to mean time was running out to achieve the above and time was being wasted on me.

[southmost]

5. am i wrong?

by asking black women to open up to the possibility of marrying men of less color?

I have always been intrigued by the ethnic/race relations of Latin countries such as Brazil where skin color is simply color.

btw I'm mostly influence by my own family background where skin color / and ethnic backgrounds are a continuum (so forgive my simplistic outlook)

[Codeine]

8. It is a bit simplistic to pretend

that there are not cultural differences between ethnic groups that cause some folks to prefer to stay within certain populations for life-long relationships. Black women are probably the most shittily-treated demographic in the US, so their reticence to marry outside their ethnic group is perhaps understandable.

Then there is the other side; those black women who ARE willing to marry outside of their ethnic group may find it difficult, as many white guys simply will not marry a black woman.

So damned if they wanna, and damned if they don't.

[HipChick]

11. look at countries in europe..black women are marrying white males

in the UK, no one bats an eyelid,

[Phoonzang]

20. Well as I'm sure you know....

America has some serious issues... ;-)

[laundry_queen]

51. Here too.

I'm in Canada. My SIL is half jamaican. She'd be considered black in the US. My brother was scared to ask her out at first because he thought she was out of his league. LOL, she still is.

[old mark]

12. I believe this is pretty much an American phenomenon, but it is really sad...

I just saw a black/white couple at the market yesterday and it was odd enough that I noticed them - he was white. They were both in late middle age, and seemed very happy together. I worked with many intelligent and capable black women for years and found that many of them would not even consider a relationship with a white man for one reason or another. I think there are so many lonely people out there that maybe it is time to re-think this.

mark

[Bucky]

13. So people who are racially prejudiced are facing fewer options in the marriage pool?

I have a hard time working up any sympathy on this issue.

Call me old fashioned, but I think people should marry the one they love, rather than pick whichever race they prefer and then start looking for love.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

22. There can be a great deal of social pressure placed on black women to marry black men

Its not nearly as strong on black men.

[liquid diamond]

83. Please.

I've seen plenty of white men blow up spewing racial epithets whenever a black man dates a white woman. Ever heard of the insult "mud shark"?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

99. Please indeed

I have heard those criticisms of black women, by other black women.

[bliss_eternal]

106. true.

...but i personally see this as more a gender issue than a racial one.

men in general aren't scrutinized regarding personal choices as women are. women are also seen as the ones who "nurture," the ones to maintain and strengthen family bonds and ties. society in general doesn't place such expectations (or pressures) on men.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ampad]

56. I am a black woman

And I have to say that it is time for black women to stop trying to carry the community. Meaning, that if it is your goal to marry and have children then you may have to look outside the box. Damn the social norms and the community. Sorry, it needs to be said.Black women have been the back bone of the black community for far too long. In regards to finding a serious non black male to marry and have children with, well it can be done. I firmly believe that there are plenty of eligible men out there you just have to weed out the assholes.

I learned early in life how it really was for black women. Growing up in the midwest where all my black male friends dated white girls is where it hit me: There is no law saying that I have to marry a black man. There is also no law stating that I had to be some play toy for a curious white man. You are correct, black women do have the short end of the stick. This is why black women should take control of the situation and look outside the box.

[Raineyb]

72. To be honest I completely agree with you there.

However, it sounded like the person to whom I was responding was attempting to paint black women as a bunch of bigots who were getting their just desserts because they weren't finding men whom they considered acceptable marriageable material. And I found his rather glib assessment rather offensive.

As a black woman I have no issue whatsoever with the idea of dating a man of another race. As a matter of fact, I would suggest more black women consider it. Especially when I hear of a certain man I refer to as "The Angry Trickidadian" (a rather obnoxious ex of my sister's) constantly talk about what a catch he is because he's a man of color with a degree and no criminal record. Meanwhile he's an arrogant asshole with a nasty misogynist streak who can't admit a woman knows more about something than he does; but he's a "catch" I digress. My point is that there aren't all that many men of other races out there who are interested in dating black women. And considering our reputation I'm not sure how that's going to change in time for me to find someone.

On the other hand, I'm not remotely interested in being as was stated not entirely in jest on an "In Living Color" sketch, in being some man's chocolate fantasy which you do have to wade through in the few men who are willing to cross the color line. And quite frankly it is extremely difficult to weed through the men to find one who is actually interested in ME and not some idea of dating me if you get my meaning. I am not interested in being some man's "proof" of his open-mindedness nor am I interested in being part of some jackass's harem either. Granted I'm talking two extremes of the male spectrum here but it's not all that great.

So you're probably right that we need to take control of the situation. But it's a situation that needs two willing partners and I don't think that the number of willing partners for us are out there in the numbers necessary to make an impact.

[bliss_eternal]

103. perhaps...

...if you were open to it, you'd find the numbers aren't as few and far between as you may think. at least that is what some of my friends found when they opened themselves to the possibility. ;)

[Raineyb]

115. I've always been open to it.

However, I've also been approached by enough men who apparently think I have no standards to be wary as well.

[bliss_eternal]

117. again...

that's a gender issue, more than a racial one. some men, sadly are disgusting and presume women to be less than human. that's not personal...just a sad fact of life (i'm sorry to say).

forgive me for misunderstanding. comments like this:

quote:
My point is that there aren't all that many men of other races out there who are interested in dating black women. And considering our reputation I'm not sure how that's going to change in time for me to find someone.

...suggest to me that your mind is made up, in regard to who is available and willing to cross the color lines. whether through your personal experience or just buying into what "you've heard"...i'm unsure. the comment also doesn't sound like you're particularly open to the possibility as you've already limited the availability pool.

btw, who exactly say's there aren't all that many men of other races interested...? ...was it "they" that so many speak of so frequently?

fyi--"they" are frequently wrong. "they" have a vested interest in insuring that some populations of people maintain doubts about themselves and are unhappy. ;)


edited for clarity.

[Raineyb]

124. I haven't limited the pool at all. At least not where race is concerned.

*I* have always been open to it. Hell in high school I we used to talk about this and even from a strictly numbers view I knew that holding out wasn't the way to go. So I haven't. But frankly I don't think they're all that interested. Not in the numbers necessary for a reasonable pool of men at any rate. They in this case being non black men. If they are then they certainly haven't approached in a way I'd recognize as reasonable. Admittedly I loathe men who come up to me on the street when I'm trying to run errands and start running what sound like rather obvious lines and it doesn't matter what race they are. I'm not interested in that nonsense. As it is, I'm too old and have far too much sense to bother with the club scene anymore and I've given up on online dating. I don't date co-workers as it's a recipe for disaster and the last time I made the mistake of getting a phone number I regretted it immensely. A simple "I'm not interested" would have been far kinder than the bullshit I ended up dealing with. Generally speaking, I try not to make the same mistake twice. I have run out of options frankly and basically have resigned myself to being yet another black woman with no man. Maybe I will find someone who appreciates me, maybe not but at least I'm not settling for the bullshit some women put up with just to have a man in their lives. At least I can say that much.

[bliss_eternal]

129. well, whatever you think...

...then you're right.
if you believe what you said, then your life experiences will fulfill your beliefs.

quote:
But frankly I don't think they're all that interested. Not in the numbers necessary for a reasonable pool of men at any rate.....I have run out of options frankly and basically have resigned myself to being yet another black woman with no man.

[Number23]

174. "basically have resigned myself to being yet another black woman with no man."

God, this breaks my heart to read. If you want to remain manless by choice, I'd support you all the way. But for you to resign yourself to being alone because you think the pickings are that slim just breaks my heart.

[tango-tee]

91. Wonderfully stated, ampad!

I'm a white woman (born and raised in Germany) who married a black man (stationed in Germany as a GI) in 1974. We lived in his home town in Southeast Texas, at the Louisiana border, and have a son together.

I think I'm missing the mark of this thread by a mile, but for a 22 year old white girl to come to the South at that time, married to a black man and living in an all-black neighborhood... I was transplanted into a life which was so very different from the one I had known before, and I've never looked at life the same way since then.

Black women have been and still are the backbone of the community for so many reasons, and they have carried a heavy load. My women friends in the town where we lived and I have kept in touch for many, many years now and when I visited last year for the first time in a couple of decades it was like coming home. Their children now grown, many with children of their own... And the women still being the backbone, through thick and thin, good times and bad.

And you're absolutely right... none of us needs to stay inside the "box". This is a topic which leaves so much room for discussion - you can image how us "girls" sat and talked throughout the night. About family responsibilities, about men, about finding decently paid work, about what it means to be a woman. The meaning and depth of our enduring black-and-white women friendships is something I wouldn't trade for all the world's treasures. We came from such different worlds and have found that in what really matters we are so much alike.

[msanthrope]

96. Kick-ass post ampad!

I don't think any woman should have to bear the weight of their community....we are individuals, not political issues.

(Said by a full-blooded Sicilian who married a very nice, nebbishy Jewish dude. Oy.)

[bliss_eternal]

102. ....+10.

:thumbsup:

[bliss_eternal]

101. ...word!

...it's not like "the community" (i.e. black men) have black women's backs. EVER. :eyes: with the only exception being "the revs." (i.e. al sharpton, lowery and jackson, of course). when someone speaks ill of, does harm to, etc. to a black women they are there. i shudder to think about the way things will be when they are gone. but case in point, the imus situation. when he called the female the sports team members nappy headed or whatever....the revs had black women's collective back. period.

but by contrast--every black male comedian basically cosigned with the comments. :( :grr::mad: and went on to make MORE idiotic comments about needing a black woman w/a weave, a perm, straightened hair, etc. :puke: utter and complete bullshit. yeah, fuck you too, buddy.

don't even get me started on the decades long defense of sexism in rap videos, misogynistic lyrics, rape apologism regarding women raped by sports team players, siding w/clarence thomas, throwing anita hill under the proverbial bus and stating she just did it "for attention." :eyes: yeah...black women just love public humiliation..... :banghead:

sorry, but i don't feel obligated to take on and shoulder responsibility for an entire community, especially one that made it clear to me many years ago, does NOT consider the female gender a priority in any way shape or form. they can gently caress that noise and shove it where the sun don't shine. there...i said it.

on edit--just want to make it clear i don't see the black community as unique on this issue. it's no different than most other races on this issue (i.e. sexism). patriarchy is patriarchy and it knows not how to discriminate by color.

[Zix]

137. Damn STRAIGHT...

I'm amazed to even hear the subtext that you feel any pressure to marry a black guy! Marry who you LOVE...!

[Bucky]

89. Well, you got me to thinking...

And if I said all people of any group were prejudiced, then that would be my prejudice. But of course I didn't say that. But I do know from personal experience that all people of all colors, particularly Americans, are plenty capable of pre-judging on all sorts of issues, including race.

Now I spent a long time writing this, cause you kinda set me off with some personal shots at me. So I hope you read this. Nothing I say has anything to do with you personally, cause I don't know you. But below is what I wrote about my thinking and what I have going on.


You begin by telling me:
    That's the kind of stupid shit certain types of white people say without knowing wht the fuck they're about.

Rainy, do you even know me? It sure sounds like you're making a lot of assumptions about me. All I wrote was my opinion, so I don't see how you got so mad at me, which is certainly what your response sounded like. But of course people have strong reactions to the subjects of marriage and dating. And certainly discussing race usually ends up becoming a major trigger for all Americans. So I'm sorry if it was something I said that ticked you off.

I try to be a logical person and I'm going to try to respond to your points without saying something stupid. Wish me luck.

Black women have it very hard in this country. The social pressure is to keep it in the community. Which frankly leads a lot of rather undesirable men to think they're better catches than they actually are.

Okay, that right there is prejudice, by definition. Whoever says "You shouldn't date or marry someone because of their race" or "You should 'keep it within the community'" which is code language for race, that person is being prejudiced. That's not necessarily bigoted. I think of bigotry as saying "those people are no good." That's a big step beyond "those people aren't good enough for my baby." But it is categorically measuring someone's worth by the color of their skin. And it's bullshit.

If you face that peer pressure, you're a victim of prejudice. Whoever passes that peer pressure along is a perpetrator of racial prejudice. Sadly, as I'm sure you know, victims of wrongs often grow up to becoming perpetrators of those same wrongs. It's sad, but it's not really excusable.

Most men outside of the community are not interested in making a life with a black woman. Oh there are plenty who apparently think you are obligated to fulfill some fantasy that they can check off their personal checklist and will say stupid shit like "I never kissed a black girl before"

First off, that white guy sounds like a douchebag. I've said before and I never run out of evidence for my claim that 99% of Americans are turned into sputtering, clueless imbeciles the second that race pops up in a conversation. It's one of the things that unites us as a people. But talking about stupid shit guys say when they're trying to get lucky has nothing at all to do with the ethics and statistics of interracial marriage, which is what the article was talking about and what I was talking about.
I'm certain that as a woman you can testify that lame pick up lines are tried by men of all colors.

Now, when you say "men outside of the community are not interested in making a life with a black woman," I agree that SOME are. But that's because a lot of people are prejudiced. Other people are not opposed to dating outside their race. I know that for a fact--and this is why I wasn't "talking out of my ass"--because I'm white and right now I'm seeing someone who happens to be black (well, mostly black, but what American isn't a mix of something?)

And then when you have the men of your own community who are actually interested in marriage (and not every man is) they go outside. How exactly do you think that makes us feel?

This is where we part ways. I don't know your situation in particular. But in principle, I don't think it's reasonable or fair to yourself for you to look at some black guy marrying a white girl and interpret it as a personal slight to you or a rejection of all African American women. If the colors were reversed (which happens to be my personal situation right now) and some white person told me I should "keep it in the community" instead, I'd tell them to go burn a cross.

In fact, the only person who's said anything like that to us was her brother. He was drunk, but even when he's sober he's a little bit of an a-hole. On the other hand, I kind of admire a good honest a-hole now and then. But I'm getting off topic. The point is that when he saw me next time he apologized, because telling other people who they can or can't hook up with is wrong.

Now that I think it through, it may be that my girlfriend (she hates that word cause we're both over 40, but we haven't been going out long enough to say "significant other" plus "significant other" sounds really dopey) it may be that friends of hers have given her flack for going out with me. But if you were to make a list of all the reasons not to go out with me, white would be way way down near the bottom.

It's bad enough that the larger society considers us less desirable than even the skankiest white woman

I don't know where you're getting your notion of "the larger society." But the people I know don't think that way. People who do think that way are not your friends and you shouldn't put any weight to their opinions. It's self-defeating to do that.

Maybe I'm lucky, in that I've got a pretty broad mix of friends, racially speaking. But it's not like I went out and said I'm gonna pick me up a big rainbow of social acquaintences or that we set some kind of quota for our get togethers. It's just that if you're friends long enough, unimportant things quit mattering so much.

But I'm so sure you're not having to worry about that with your position of privilege are you?

My what? I'm a school teacher in the South. I worked and paid my way through college. I've earned what I got. Just because I haven't had the same disadvantages as you doesn't me I got handed anything on a silver platter.

Must be nice to know so much about a community you're ignorant about that you can declare the women bigoted because they don't date inter-racially enough for your ass. Meanwhile the opportunities to date inter-racially aren't really there to begin with.

I never claimed to know about any given communities. If you're still using "community" as a code word for race, I absolutely never claimed to know what it's like to be a different race. Please don't put words and arguments in my mouth and then call me an ass because of stuff that you made up about me. That's just silly.

As for "dating inter-racially enough for my ass," the only point I made in my post that pissed you off so much was that people should be with the ones they find love with and not let race be an issue. I'm not telling anyone that interracial dating is "the" answer. That's something else you decided I meant, based on nothing I actually said. (On the other hand, hanging out at your next local Star Trek convention wouldn't be a bad start and the boy-girl ratio would totally work in your favor--ha-ha). No, what I seriously believe is that when you think of all the things that can help a relationship to work, and I really do believe in love, then if people find that, having a different race is really dumb reason to raise objections.

I know those objections exist, of course. I'm sure someone has said something about us behind my back who wasn't drunk. I know we've gotten a couple of double-takes at the movies. But I just ignore that stuff. Those people and their opinions are not important.

I'm not dating a race. I'm only going out with one special woman who happens to be patient enough to put up with my goofy self. I refuse to let a relationship that seems to be working get defined by somebody else as a part of their statistics. I'm happy with what I have, what we've both worked for--not that we've actually gotten to the "hard work" part of the relationship yet.

I sure didn't intend to set anyone else off with my opinion. But I'm not as ignorant about the matter as you presumed. You did give me something else to think about, so I do thank you for that.

[Raineyb]

94. You've gotten one thing right

I don't know you personally. But I've heard from many like you. There has always been so many white people telling black people what they should and should not do, think, say and yet they have no idea where we're coming from nor frankly do they really care other than to lecture us on why something we did or didn't do didn't meet with approval. It's not like they've asked or taken an actual interest. Although plenty of people have an opinion when stories like this one come out and then when I read a post that sounds like someone enjoying a moment of schadenfreude at our expense, well it's easy enough to put you into the category of clueless white person pontificating on a subject of which he knows nothing you certainly sounded the part to my ear. (Or more aptly looked the part to my eye based on what I read)

As to race, it's easy enough to say that people happen to fall for someone and their race doesn't matter. And certainly that can be the case, but in this country we are so fucked up race wise that merely brushing off someone's choice as though society has nothing to do with it is more than a bit naive. Do you really think how our media depicts people has NOTHING to do with whether or not someone is desirable in this country? When black women are generally portrayed as finger snapping, head and eye rolling, loud, obnoxious and uncouth do you really think that any upwardly mobile man is going to be interested in any woman who looks like that stereotype? Especially in light of how desirable the white woman is in this society. (So much so apparently that white men had to kill black men who looked at them the wrong way) Which one are you more likely to give the benefit of the doubt to? It's certainly not the one you expect to start yelling, starting fights and rolling her head while gesticulating wildly based on the media portrayal.

And by the community I'm talking about native born African American as opposed to immigrants which has its own subset of issues which are best kept separate as far as this topic is concerned. But no it doesn't include white people per se. Hasn't before don't see why it should now. We are talking about how things look to people with the filter of race. It certainly wouldn't be apt to consider people who are white. They're not the ones who are raising black girls into women and giving them the cues that let them know who is or is not preferable as far as who they bring home to the family.

If you meant that people should date whoever and that race is a silly reason to raise objections then you certainly have an odd way of showing it as your opening statement was:

"So people who are racially prejudiced are facing fewer options in the marriage pool?"

The discussion at hand was about black women. How exactly is one supposed to read into that opening statement? You have an odd way of making your point. Do you usually use words that mean the opposite of what you say you mean? THAT was the sentence I read that pissed me off in the first place and your explanations after the fact doesn't really match the words you used in the first place.

[Fire1]

122. Preach Rainey!!! I can "hear" the inflections!! LOL!!!

[seabeyond]

19. my full support and understanding to black women in this society...

i want a better word, i cannot pull it out fo my head. this is an issue i have thought about a lot. so many wrongs in this. black women as a whole, truly are in a tough spot, so many ways.

[Romulox]

23. Black women need to be more open to relationships outside of their race.

:shrug:

[DevonRex]

29. How about men of other races need to be open to marrying black women?

:shrug:

[Romulox]

31. Agree completely.

So many invisible walls and unspoken assumptions between us. I truly believe most of us want to care for one another and be cared for in return, but we are all so scarred by the horrible history of this country that we can't move past it.

I will admit to assuming that AA women simply were not interested in me as a white man. It definitely goes more than both ways--it goes every which way.

[DevonRex]

33. Yep. The issue is very complex. So much so that the studies

have to be looked at very carefully, too, to find any kind of bias or flawed technique. And then you have to be wary of the articles about the studies because even if a study is done very well some reporter might not have understood it well enough to summarize the findings accurately.

And now I have a headache just thinking about it. :hi:

[Leftist Agitator]

71. "AA women simply were not interested in me as a white man."

African American women aren't interested in you because you rock the "Original Yellows". Those things are SO 2003!

[IronLionZion]

35. I'm open to black women, but I haven't met many who are open to me though.

And I'm an Indian-American male. Indian-American women won't give me the time of day though. Many won't even be platonic friends because they want to be viewed as available for the white men. Oddly enough the women who are most open to me have always been white.

[DevonRex]

36. Seriously, I think I should start matchmaking. :)

I bet there are several women on DU who would love to date you.

[IronLionZion]

53. Go for it! I'm open to DUers. nt

[Fire1]

126. "they want to be viewed as available for the white men."

WHERE ON EARTH DID YOU HEAR THAT???????????????????????? And don't tell me a black woman told you cause I know that's not true!

[IronLionZion]

128. All my female cousins and sister say it all the time

They tear us down constantly and say that white men are more attractive.

:shrug:

[Fire1]

146. That's not nearly the same as saying, black women view

themselves as being "available" for white men. Unless your cousins and sister are black/AA, they can't speak to this issue with any credibility. Your female relatives have broad brushed an entire race of women and have not a clue as to what their talking about. You want to know? Go directly to the source and stop believing gossip.

[IronLionZion]

148. You misunderstood me, my comment was about Indian-American women, not black

sorry that wasn't clear. Indian-American women really do have such a strong preference for white men that they need to tear down Indian men in a hostile and reactionary way. It's mostly a self-loathing issue. They think brown = failure at life, and white = success.

[Fire1]

151. Thanks for clearing that up. n/t

[wingnut40]

61. Or black women open to marrying other men.

[Raineyb]

125. Who says they aren't?

Just because the pressure is there not to it doesn't mean that there aren't women who are perfectly open to doing so. So where pray tell are you getting the information on which you're making your assumption?

[AspenRose]

143. I did just that, thanks.

:eyes:

[RedRoses323]

157. Yep..

I did.....it will be 15 years in August....

[bliss_eternal]

111. but who said they aren't....?

:shrug:

[FLPanhandle]

41. I agree. There are many guys that would be willing to start relationships with black women.

Seems that many of them are not open to the idea or there is a social barrier they aren't willing to cross. Just my limited experience.

[wuushew]

38. Altering the natural sex ratio or polygamy are also options

n/t

[Liberal_in_LA]

46. This compares with nearly half of American-born Asians choosing non-Asian spouses.

[bliss_eternal]

112. yet we don't see articles discussing that.

;)

[Starbucks Anarchist]

52. I long for the day when none of this stuff matters.

I'm of Indian descent and my GF is white. Maybe it's due to our relatively young ages, but the racial thing has never come up between us or with other people.

[bliss_eternal]

190. that's wonderful to hear...!

i also long for the day, that none of it matters to society at large. thanks for sharing! :hi:

[TexasObserver]

55. Has anyone asked those black men why they're not marrying black women?

Among those 22%, it would be instructive to ask. I don't know what the reasons would be if one used sound polling, but I know what I've heard black men say who have married non black women. Some feel that too many black women have a hard edge that they aim at black men, and it is a turn off. It's like having some disapproving mother or grandmother, always telling them they don't measure up. That's anecdotal, but I've heard it repeatedly over the years. I've also had black women tell me that black women are sometimes too hard on black men and run them off scolding them like they're a child.

It's certainly more culturally acceptable in the black community for black men to date non blacks, than black women. That's a factor in the lack of black husbands for black women. That practice increases the odds for men and decreases the odds for women marrying a non black person.

[Cetacea]

58. As an adjunct they are more likely to be jobless

One could argue that black men have been left behind.

[bliss_eternal]

119. wait...what?

:wow:

who's jobless?

[CBR]

69. Many black men marry women from other races because they fell in love. nt

[liquid diamond]

86. Profound post. Just because a black man marries outside of his

race does not mean he is shunning black women.

[bliss_eternal]

109. true.

...people need to stop personalizing other's choices.

[LanternWaste]

78. I've heard many things regarding race used over the years...

I've heard many things regarding race used over the years... I neither give it less nor more credibility simply because "I've heard it a lot"

[bliss_eternal]

114. in all fairness...

...there are probably as many different reasons as there are people in the world.

some may have found themselves attracted to a certain person, fell in love, etc.

some may find they have a lot in common w/them--a certain hobby, lifestyle (i.e. vegan, etc.), religious belief or lack of, political affiliation, etc.

some people look for people who remind them of their upbringing. some people look for people that are nothing like the people they grew up with. :shrug: i think it's individual and varies.

it's unfair to broadbrush and presume there's some "epidemic" of black men opting to not be with black women, because of some flaw within them.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

187. Why should they - a better question would be why is it so rare?

In an ideal world, about 88% of black Americans who marry would marry a non-black woman*

In fact, only about 20% are. This indicates that pressure to marry someone your own race is still very strong.

If anything, we should be looking at ways to increase the number of black men who marry non-black women, not vice versa



*This figure is in fact complete bullshit - for a variety of reasons, even in a world free of racial prejudice you'd probably expect people to be a bit more likely to marry someone of their own race than a different one, for most definitions of race. But I hope my point is clear.

[sendero]

59. Finding the right mate..

... is no easy task no matter what color you are. Unless maybe you look like Brad Pitt or Jamie Presley.

I'm sure some folks have the deck stacked against them but that's life, nothing is really fair.

If finding the right person is really your number one priority and you put your time and energy into making it happen, well I believe almost everyone can be successful.

And I wish everyone good luck with it.

[IronLionZion]

82. I think its amazing that your example was Jamie Presley, who married Simran Singh

so they have an interracial relationship. My sister and female cousins keep telling me that no women are attracted to Indian men, but then I remember Jamie Pressley, Liz Hurley, Sarah McLaughlan, Gwen Stefani, and Princess Gabriella. Apparently Indian men were good enough for them. ;)

[Skittles]

168. I have a huge crush on Aasif Mandvi

yes INDEED

[OhioChick]

176. Oh no girl......

Kal Penn is where it's at! ;)

[Skittles]

177. ooh yes

very nice indeed :thumbsup:

[Juche]

60. Nate McCall wrote about that

He had a chapter in his biography about how as a professional class (he is a journalist) single black male he pretty much had endless options with the opposite sex because he said most other black men were in trouble with the law, psychologically screwed up from cultural issues, addicted to something or other, troubled, etc. so the pool of professional blacks w/o serious problems was pretty slim.

And McCall was an ex-gang member and ex-con who admitted to date raping several women in his youth. Good luck being considered a hot commodity as a white male with those traits, the supply/demand dynamics are different.

It seems like for white people it is the opposite, with women having more leverage.

[frustrated_lefty]

64. Honestly, as a younger man, I was too shy to ask AA women out.

I assumed I was too "white-bread" to be of any interest and would be ridiculed for the effort.

In later life, there was an African American doctor/colleague who I thought was gorgeous and charismatic, but refrained from asking out because I thought she'd perceive me as "just another curious white guy."

We all make assumptions, and it's a shame. It really is self-limiting to no good purpose.

[bliss_eternal]

110. great point...

...i wish more people would stop allowing broad-brushed assumptions, stereotypes and blatant hear-say, to make decisions for them. life's too short to wonder, "what if?"

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pettypace]

85. In defense of black men

I believe men are attracted to women who are very different from themselves, appearance wise.

I'm a brown man and have mostly dated white women because of the variety that's indelible to that group.

I don't think any deliberate selection is afoot, simply a nature-related level of attraction.

That being said, there're a ton of drop dead gorgeous black women here in NC, and I would be first in line if I even had a shot...which I don't..lol.

[IronLionZion]

88. All is not black and white, just a friendly reminder that there are other races here too

Just because American media doesn't cast us as the hero in Hollywood movies doesn't mean that we are not decent loving loyal guys. There are wonderful and terrible people of every ethnic culture, and Asian Men (East and South) are often not even considered for dating.

[RedRoses323]

97. +1

:thumbsup:

[bliss_eternal]

116. yup.

:thumbsup:

...my early school years (elementary-jr. high) were spent w/asian kids. i think this contributed to my being open to dating other cultures, as i'd had exposure and saw i could have things in common w/people that looked nothing like me. i found young asian men attractive and would have dated them. though at that time, most of the asian men in my life were like brothers to me. :)

[boppers]

90. Less racism is good.

People who want to 'marry within their "race"' freak me out, and (combined with another thread on similar research about increased diversity in marriage partners), the trend is dropping quite rapidly.

[ismnotwasm]

98. Reading through this thread

I find that as a married white women, married to a white man, my white entitlement automatically rears it's ugly head.

I can't speak for Black women, I don't know a Black woman's experiences, I never will, and I won't pretend I do. I did want to say I appreciate the responses by the Black women here, whom of course, the article is addressing.

I do wonder, to what degree the effect of both institionalized and just plain ol' racism has had on the Black American family, married or not? I would guess (and my own reading bears this out) it's significant, to say the least.

[Voluntary1]

127. Why is it always about race? Look at income demographics

and you will find a similar pattern. I know racists will disagree with me, but here is evidence.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/09/24/taxes-marriage-working-poor-personal-finance-marriage-penalty.html

[Name removed]

130. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bliss_eternal]

131. hmmmm. maybe....

....if you could qualified your post by saying, "the black women you've encountered"...or "based on your experiences." only so as not to contribute to stereotypes and broad-brushing of the culture. (and it may help it to seem less "bash-like.")

no disrespect intended, of course. i understand what you're saying. that you've encountered black women who you haven't shared a lot in common with.

[Drix]

134. It's not really my personal experience. It's reality.

Just go to any dating site and look at what Black women desire. The vast majority will require "tall" and "strong relationship with Jesus/God". You can also review empirical data in relation to obesity and out of wedlock births in the Black community. I do not relish these uncomfortable truths but in order the remedy a problem one must first acknowledge a problem exists.

[bliss_eternal]

144. yikes...

....sorry to hear about that (from the dating sites). :scared: i certainly won't refute your experience, or what you've seen on dating sites.

while these may be issues for the black women you've encountered on dating sites, not all black women are "religious." there are a few blogs i'm aware of, maintained by black women feminists that are "not religious" and the women commenting on them (some black) also are not. oh and my knowledge (and love for) rock music is how i bonded w/the man who is now my husband.

given that there are black female body builders, athletes on sports teams, tennis players, gymnasts, aerobic and fitness instructors (some w/their own lines of fitness dvd's)--clearly all (black women) aren't obese and unhealthy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donna_Richardson

http://www.oxygenmag.com/hickombottom

http://blackathlete.net/artman2/publish/Women_53/The_Greatest_Black_Female_Athletes_Of_All-Time_1716.shtml

i understand the numbers aren't great--but my point is that we can't broad brush groups. are the issues w/in the black community you speak of prevalent for some? sure. but don't presume these issues are representative of ALL black women.

i thought the term "out of wedlock" was primarily used by religious people. :shrug: i can understand having a desire to not deal w/people's baggage (prior relationships, kids, etc.)...but don't get why you'd use that term to describe it.

[Fire1]

150. I thought the same thing bliss when the poster referenced

"out of wedlock." I also agree about the "white music." That happens to be one of the things my husband and I share in common. He loves rock and of course is a Led Zeppelin fan. I even got him a framed Zeppelin poster for Christmas. I'm not the rock fan he is but my tastes fall in the category of John Lennon, Hall&Oates, Phil Collins, Friends of Distinction, etc. but of course I can't leave out the soul music of my people, which I dearly love. I even love Andre Bacilli (sp) and Charlotte Church.

I guess my point in all of this is, alot of times people are "lookin for love in all the wrong places." Less educated women and men of any color tend to be more narrow minded and have this mind set that they're not going to "settle." Once we get past the physical we'll be alot better off. Religion, otoh, is a very BIG issue and I believe the poster is correct on that point. I know I wouldn't even date an atheist, let alone marry one, so in his case, he IS better off continuing his search outside of our culture.

[bliss_eternal]

167. lol, lol...!

quote:
I know I wouldn't even date an atheist, let alone marry one, so in his case, he IS better off continuing his search outside of our culture.

:spray::rofl:
too funny. but i hear you.
i'm not "religious" per say, but am also not an atheist. i don't know any atheists of color (personally), but am sure there have to be some others out there. lol.

admittedly, some sisters have kicked me to the curb (as friends), because i'm not as "religious" as they are. :shrug: no biggie, i understand and try to be respectful of others beliefs. to each his/her own.

[RedRoses323]

154. +1

:toast:

[Drix]

158. Not really yikes.

I am not hating on Black women. Everybody has personal preferences. If you want a religious person over six feet tall I have no problem with that. And the reason I use the term "out of wedlock" births is because it describes a unique situation. Having children while unmarried sends up red flag for a guy like me who has absolutely has no interest in having children outside of marriage. It begs the question does this woman play fast and loose with birth control? Does she use birth control at all? Was this a mutual agreement by both the biological father and her to have children outside of a committed relationship? Does she plan on having more children outside of a committed relationship, etc.

[bliss_eternal]

165. interesting...

...i see that a single woman w/children brings up a lot of questions for you....about her. :eyes: little to none about the dude who participated in the act of impregnating her. gee--wonder why. :eyes:

buy a friggin' clue and realize it takes two to tango...and just because a woman ends up alone w/a kid doesn't mean it started out that way.

if you had even one question (or concern) about your fellow men involved in leaving a woman alone with a child, i'd be a tad more interested in pursuing this discussion w/you. oh and your prior post is all about bashing black women, after reading your post above.

lovely. :puke:


later for you.

much.

[Name removed]

179. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bliss_eternal]

181. that's a bunch of bullshit, imo.

...and blatant "lack of male responsibility" apologism. f**k that! :grr::mad:

any man that doesn't want to impregnate a woman, could take personal responsibility for not doing so. it's NOT all the woman's responsibility.

i find your attitude disgusting, anti-woman, and not the least bit progressive.

later for you.

[bliss_eternal]

183. um....yeah. you are.

hating on black women. you showed who you are. i'm merely calling you on it. deal with it.

quote:
I am not hating on Black women.

lots of women have children from prior relationships. latina women, caucasian women....i don't see you slurring them (thankfully) or stating they don't suit you (or you won't date them). wonder why that is....:eyes:

you know who's on welfare in the midwest and south for "out of wedlock relationships" and no child support from prior relationships?....caucasians. fyi--lot of latinas are religious. most of the religious right is caucasian. hello?! i know some devout buddhists who fall into every racial background.

and save your atheist claims.
no atheist is going to drop "out of wedlock" as much as you have in this thread.

[AspenRose]

184. Thank you Bliss.

Seemed pretty apparent to me it was a bash black women mission. Good show. :hi:

[frustrated_lefty]

135. I dug through some scientific articles on this, because I was curious

The stats suck for African American women. About 3 in 4 are obese, primarily due to inactivity. Generally, that inactivity is due to maintaining the household, handling the entire parenting job without support.

That really sucks.

[Drix]

138. The issues are complex.

Poor diet in the Black community is a hold over from slavery and frustrated from poverty ever since. Soul food is some of the most unhealthy food one could eat. But it's history is rooted in what Black's could afford or were allowed to eat in times past. It's also understandable how these dishes have become comfort food in a culture that's been oppressed. Also in today's poor communities healthy choices simply are not available. Fast food chains and mini marts are the only places available for food while markets that carry fresh fruits and vegetables are no where to be found. It's economic, it's cultural. There are a lot of issues going on.

[frustrated_lefty]

140. By all means, I don't claim to understand it all.

There's a whole lot more at work here than I think we'll ever understand within our lifetimes.

[bliss_eternal]

145. there was a lot of land...

...in compton being used for farming after the 1992 riots--w/support of the LA Regional Food Bank. It helped inner city families to obtain fresh farmed food.

unfortunately the owner of the land, had other ideas of what he wanted to use it for. :( daryl hannah (the actress) and tom morello (rage against the machine) attempted to protest to protect it. but it was taken anyway.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1205063,00.html

[Fire1]

153. No. No. It also comes from celebrities telling black women

that it's ok to be over weight (Monique comes to mind as the worst offender) and let's not leave out the fact that in certain urban areas across this nation black men have encouraged obesity by telling black women they want BIG women (big asses, big this and big that). Black women have been told, "be yourself!", stop trying to be something you're not, with no mention of the risks to health. Yet, the weave industry has exploded, "can't achieve it, weave it!" So many contradictions and black women jumping through years of hoops to, to do what? Please the black man and she's still behind the eight ball.

[bliss_eternal]

166. true...

...because when all is said and done, black women are still "women" who are just as vulnerable to the idiocy of a sexist (and frequently racist)advertising industry--hell bent on taking advantage of women's insecurities.

[mzteris]

160. I think there's more to it than that

not just "diet", not just "activity.... I think there is genetic/metabolic component that has gone unrecognized. And no one is looking.

Let me tell you why I believe this.

My son is adopted African American - our diet is so healthy in this house that his nutritionist said he "needs more fat in his diet". . . and that if anything, he needed to eat "larger meals". The biggest complaint with our "diet" is that yeah, we "eat supper too late" most times, and he does tend to eat quickly...

He is VERY active. He's a dancer - from 4:30 - 8:30 two nights a week and Saturdays from 9 - 12 or 1 or 2 depending on the season, sometimes Sunday and other"extra rehearsals" - depending on performances.

He's also a football player. Last fall - that meant practice 5:30 - 7:30 three nights a week (yeah the other three nights), plus Saturday games.

He's just started track for the summer.

He plays football/soccer at school during recess.

in his spare time - He rides his bike. Plays outside. Runs around. Plays basketball.


If ONE more person looks at him and says "maybe he needs to eat better and exercise more" - I think I will most likely just punch someone!! No he doesn't "sneak eat". No he doesn't get up in the night and "raid the fridge". No he doesn't get food from other kids at school!

:grr:

He's never even had a damn Twinkie and would probably throw up if you made him eat one.

He's 190 and eleven years old. (5' 2.5") We've been working with a clinic for nearly two years. They've analyzed his diet (food diary) and his exercise/fitness levels and do a complete bodyscans. They are out of suggestions. "He's just big". Oh, when he hits his growth spurt he'll stretch out. . . Oh it's just genetics. His birth family was all large. . .

Yeah - they were. And they subsisted on fried chicken and other typical Southern fare (where EVERYTHING is cooked with FAT!!) (not stereotyping, I grew up with the same damn diet in South Georgia, so I know what that "diet" consists of.) AND his birth family didn't exercise, play sports, etc...

So why is HE still so LARGE? Yeah, "most of it is muscle and bone density", but he wears a 34 or 36 men's waist pant. He wears a large men's shirt.( His football coaches are in Nirvana, but he's not.) Trying to find pants to fit over his thighs (which are bigger than his hips) and still fit in the waist without that godawful sagging (which he doesn't want to do, but finding pants to fit?????)

(Being recital this weekend, we just went through HELL, trying outfit him and the other boys who are half his size. Trying to find "matching items" in the men's and boys department that "worked" with the girls costumes. . . he kept blaming himself because of "all the trouble" everyone had to go through. :cry: We tried to really downplay it, but he knew it was "his size" that was the complicating factor no matter how you sliced it.)

In some ways, being a football player helps to really push that, aren't you glad you're built like a linebacker meme 'cause you're such a good player.... but that only goes so far, ya know? It helps to mitigate his pain somewhat, but only some. He wants to be a running back, but he's just not that fast anymore. And yeah, he used to be the fastest kid on the track you'd ever seen!! He can't "run very fast" or "very far" anymore and it just kills him.


I keep questioning the endocrinologist who keeps saying he's "normal". How can someone on that healthy of diet, that active of a lifetyle, STILL be so grossly OVERWEIGHT??? It is NOT NORMAL!!

I've been looking for an African American endocrinologist or other AA docs who might be pursuing research in this arena, but so far no luck. Everything I find on AA weight issues assumes poor diet and sedentary lifestyle. EVERY THING. Like it's impossible to find a black person who eats right and exercises!! :nuke: Really really pisses me off!!

I'm not buying it. There HAS TO BE AN EXPLANATION! And it torques me off to no end that they just shrug their shoulders and get all f'ing patronizing about it.

Yeah, I'm venting a little here. I maintain a much more "positive attitude" around my son. I never ever use the words fat or overweight. His "diet" is the same diet as the entire household - except he has some non-"lowfat" products that nutritionist wants him to use - like mayonnaise, etc. I encourage and support him and try my best to diffuse his anger and sadness. I just want my little boy to be happy and healthy.

[AspenRose]

185. *hug*

:hug:

[RedRoses323]

162. Yes..

"Also in today's poor communities healthy choices simply are not available."

I noticed this when I went home (Milwaukee) last summer. The "Fried Fish" joints on almost every corner blew my mind. :grr: Dam, Milwaukee has changed...:-(

[opihimoimoi]

139. White wemmin also feeling the pinch as more and more white men marrying non whites

Whats a woman to do these daze???

[frustrated_lefty]

141. Well, it starts with the "top kill" and then...

[IndianaGreen]

156. 'When you add in the prison population?'

I am stunned!

[bliss_eternal]

172. going to have call bullshit on this article...

...as yet another blatent attempt to keep women oppressed, and their attention off of the real issues that keep them on the lower socioeconomic rungs of society.

i'm getting real tired of these "there's just not enough to go around" articles. :eyes:

...hey heterosexual married people! there's not enough rights to go around--so, make sure you put those glbt's in check...they're trying to take your rights away. oooooh nooooooes! :sarcasm:

....hey working class people! there's not enough money and opportunity to go around, so get mad at those immigrants for getting all the money and jobs that should be yours. ooooooh nooooooes! eeek! :sarcasm:

....hey single, lonely ladies! there's not enough men to go around, so pay attention while we tell you who to hate for taking the man that should have been yours. :sarcasm:

puh-lease....:eyes::puke:

i guess it's too much to ask for some articles that address the true issues that keep women of color oppressed in our society. so let's just put a bunch of bs articles out there that keep them spending money on becoming more desirable for the dudes....and hating other women. (sigh)

[Blue_Tires]

178. good points...

[bliss_eternal]

182. gracias...

...:hi:

[MadMaddie]

173. I see a lot of potential for a lot of singles here at DU to date

Is there a DU forum for folks to meet and get to know each other?

I am not looking I have been in my relationship with my partner for 15 years. She is white and I am black, it's never mattered.

Anyhoo....I would love to hear about DU hookups and long term relationships?

What say you DU? O8) :toast:

[bliss_eternal]

175. same here...

...twelve years w/my german irish dude. :hi: we bonded over our mutual love of 80's music, classic rock, hard rock, video games, the original star wars trilogy, amusement parks, cooking, film, sports and travel. we both grew up democrat, catholic and w/crazy families...what's not to love? hehehehe. :loveya:

but i'd also love to hear of some hook-ups. anyone open to interracial dating, feel free to start a thread (to open the lines of communication) in the ir and multi-racial forum:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=289

...if you guys need a place to get to know one another better. ;)

[Number23]

180. 15 years??!

You go, girl! :)

[MadMaddie]

191. Thanks!

:toast:

[AspenRose]

186. Going on 11 years with mine.

That's a good idea, but might have some liability issues if DU promoted it as part of the site...some people are doing that (getting to know each other) on their own