I Come to Praise Helen Thomas, Not to Bury Her-by: William Rivers Pitt

[kpete]

I Come to Praise Helen Thomas, Not to Bury Her

Wednesday 09 June 2010

by: William Rivers Pitt, t r u t h o u t | Op-Ed

......................

Had the press and the Bush administration paid heed to Helen Thomas, there would not be 5,000 new graves at Arlington National Cemetery. There would not be 40,000 plus wounded American soldiers. There would not be thousands and thousands more suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder and other ailments, who are unable to get proper treatment from an over-stressed Veterans Affairs' system. There would not have been soldiers left to rot in Walter Reed. There would not be more than a million dead and maimed Iraqis. The Sunnis would not have been massacred, and Iran would not now be in full control of Iraq. There would not have been hundreds of billions of our tax dollars poured into the sand and into the coffers of Bush-friendly "defense" contractors; they call our current economic situation the "Great Recession," but by rights, it should be called the "Iraq Recession," and it would not be as bad as it is had we listened to Helen Thomas.

Perhaps, these things were inevitable. Bush and his crew wanted a war, and if the entire press corps had been made up of Helen Thomas clones, it is entirely possible we would have wound up mired in that filthy conflict anyway. But Thomas tried when her colleagues did not. Thomas asked sharp questions when her colleagues refused. Thomas wrote the truth when her colleagues reprinted Bush administration talking points to protect their seats in the press room. Helen Thomas was right, did right, just as she has done with every administration since John F. Kennedy.

One stupid comment cannot wash away 60 years of credibility and honor. One stupid comment cannot wash away the fight she waged against the Bush administration's criminal campaign in Iraq. One stupid comment cannot wash away the fact that, by her very existence, Helen Thomas exposed the mainstream media for what they are, and no matter how vigorously they jump on her today, they all know the blood remains on their hands.

I am sorry she said what she did. It was very stupid, and perhaps even justifies the termination of her six-decade career. That, as I said, is for others to decide. I stand today to remind any and all that one bad act does not erase a lifetime of excellence. She is gone, and perhaps rightly so, but we were a better country while she labored for us, when she asked the tough questions, when she stood before the powerful and called them liars to their faces.

Thank you, Helen Thomas. For everything.

more:
http://www.truthout.org/i-come-praise-helen-thomas-not-bury-her60258

[hlthe2b]

1. allow me to be the first...K&R

[Oregone]

2. After all, she was poised to break the sealed Rove indictment

Thats why they canned her I bet

[brendan120678]

8. LOL...

although it isn't fair to bash Mr. Pitt when he can no longer defend himself.

[Oregone]

12. Oh come on now...that was aimed more at Truthout

Jason Leopold is Dreamy

:)

I never had much of an issue with Pitt besides occasional self-promotion here. Everyone has to make a living...I wish him well as an indie...commentator

[trumad]

66. Ocaasional self promotion...

You don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

[trumad]

67. Occasional self promotion...

You don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

[bleever]

78. Trudat.

:thumbsup:

[midnight]

19. Had to be something big.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

25. And in just more 24 business hours she would have done it too if not for those meddling kids! -nt

[sabrina 1]

38. The fact that Rove is still roaming free in this country

is a crime in itself. Not one word of condemnation from the same people who rushed to condemn Helen Thomas, for this war criminal. You may find it amusing that someone as vile as Rove is welcomed with open arms by the DC press corps, admired even, but there are still people in this country who do not find anything about that treasonous chickenhawk amusing at all.

Helen Thomas is a hero. Rove is a traitor. It's as simple as that, but in the Orwellian society we live in, he is respected, while she is vilified by the cowards who are too afraid to rock the boat as she has and I'm sure, will continue to do.

History is filled with similar injustices so Helen is in good company. But I am happy to see the enormous support for her everywhere except among the rabid rightwing of both parties. And with the cowardly excuse for a free press, following along where they are led.

[defendandprotect]

54. Nicely said ....

as usual ...!!

[Name removed]

146. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[superduperfarleft]

151. Ws revenge? LOL.

[racaulk]

154. Some of them don't even try, do they?

:rofl:

[xxqqqzme]

170. real subtle - like a hammer to your finger.

As time goes by, I become more convinced there is a missing gene.

[leftynyc]

159. Really?

Then you shouldn't have any problem providing links to Ms. Thomas's long history of anti-semitism and those many like minded statements. We'll wait.

[kenfrequed]

165. I would also like to see this

Having followed her for some time now, I cannot think of some long history of antisemitism.

[sabrina 1]

168. Welcome to DU ~ you are easily frightened. Better toughen

up if you really 'love freedom' as you claim.

Helen Thomas is a national treasure, and Americans value their national treasures enormously, especially those who don't just claim to 'love freedom' ( empty, Bush-like words imho) but who LIVE what they believe as Helen has her entire life.

We also value a free press, and I hope this doesn't scare the living daylights our of you, but we really, really love the 1st Amendment, especially when it applies to the press.

I see a movement growing in this country now to stand up against the Ari (they-better-watch-what-they-say) Fleischer's of the world (btw, did HE scare you at all?) who not surprisingly led the anti-1st Amendment attacks on Helen Thomas.

I have to say that I'm sure, you as an 'Independent' and sort of 'progressive' when it comes to a choice between a real American patriot like Helen Thomas and a traitor like Ari Fleischer, you know which one to believe. Or maybe not ...

[Autumn]

3. Rec #5 For Helen n/t

[fascisthunter]

4. miss ya brotha

will read this when I get to where I'm going now.

[demosincebirth]

5. She should have retired long ago to enjoy her golden years.

[sabrina 1]

39. The only people who would agree that ridiculous statement

are the Ari Fleischers and Karl Roves of the world. I hope she becomes an independent jouranlist now that she is free of the censorship most of our 'journalists' accept so sheepishly. She will be in very good company and not the first great American journalist who had to leave the corporate media in order to be able to report to the American honestly.

[rhett o rick]

87. Bravo, bravo. Very well said. I do hope so. nm

[Voice for Peace]

133. helenthomas.org

http://helenthomas.org/

[sabrina 1]

176. Thank you, I had not seen that before.

I hope the sale of her book goes way up. I will definitely recommend it to everyone I know. But she clearly was a big thorn in the side of those power. And that is the real reason she was forced to retire.

[NoSheep]

158. Amen!

[rhett o rick]

86. I know you mean well but I dont think that is a nice thing to say.

Even when we get old we still like to be active. Plez dont make us "enjoy" our fucking golden years.

[proReality]

142. The only thing that's golden

in the "golden years" is that you need more gold to live through them.

[rhett o rick]

202. Hold out your hand and I will give you golden. nm

[demosincebirth]

194. I believe if you can afford it, retire and give a younger person a job. nt

[rhett o rick]

201. And then go home an shot your self in the head. No thanks, jack. nm

[demosincebirth]

216. Maybe you, but many of us enjoy everyday of retirement and wish

we had retired earlier. Like I said, give someone else a job, unless you're as tight as a crabs ass and want to die on the job.

[leftynyc]

160. Yes, she should have retired

but that doesn't change that the piling on is disturbing.

[RaleighNCDUer]

173. She COULD have, but I, for one, am glad she didn't.

I'm only sorry her career ended on this down note, born of frustration at Likud's refusal to treat fairly with the Palestinians.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[City Lights]

7. K&R nt

[Uncle Joe]

9. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.

[kpete]

15. of course

Uncle Joe

[GoneOffShore]

10. Thanks for the post Kpete!

And so the voice of reason flies in the face of those who would paint the world in only two colors.

[Bluebear]

11. Or to threaten her with physical harm.

[sonias]

13. "one bad act does not erase a lifetime of excellence"

Absolutely true Will. :fistbump:

:toast: to Helen Thomas' lifetime of excellence and achievement!

Still :loveya: Helen!

[midnight]

14. Jews for Helen Thomas don't believe Helen Thomas made a stupid comment.

They believe she made a comment for Human Rights. As time goes on, History will show that Helen Thomas was right. Palestine can't be occupied. I know that America occupies a few countries too, so it may not be our place to point fingers. But oddly enough, just a few weeks before this occupation comment, Helen Thomas, asked President Obama a similar one about ending our occupation in the middle east . Interestingly enough, Helen was not called un patriotic.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. How about Jews for Jesus?

Have they released a statement?

[onenote]

71. I sincerely doubt that history will show that Thomas was "right" in suggesting Israeli Jews

go back to Germany or Poland or wherever they "came from".

[ProudDad]

105. The illegal settlers in the West Bank sure as hell should be forced to go somewhere else...

and that's who Ms. Thomas was referring to.

And she's absolutely right about suggesting that they leave the West Bank -- like follow the law...

But, you have the perfect right to maintain the right-wing meme if it floats your boat... :eyes:

[Raster]

131. Absolutely! Israel should stop building illegal settlements on other people's land....

...and if Israel cannot place the new settlers within its legal boundaries, then Israel should discourage the mass immigration AND send those settlers back to the countries they came from. It's not that difficult.

[onenote]

166. if that is what Thomas meant why didn't she suggest that the Jews go back to Israel?

Does she think that all of the settlers on the West Bank are from Germany or Poland or America?

Nice try at revisionism, but it doesn't work.

[ProudDad]

204. Because most of the "settlers" DIDN'T COME FROM ISRAEL

Israel imported them from elsewhere and planted them in the West Bank as an integral part of their plan to steal that land away from the Palestinians too...

Very simple...

[onenote]

210. really. Do you have statistics to back up that claim

And given that there is virtually no emigration to Israel from Germany and Poland (in recent years there have been ten times as may emigres to Israel from Brazil than from Poland and nearly 100 times as many from Ethiopia), why would Thomas have singled out those two countries unless (a) she was referring to Jews who came to Israel decades ago and their descendants or (b) she is woefully uniformed about who the settlers are.

[RaleighNCDUer]

175. Actually, she said Poland, Germany, AMERICA - wherever they

came from.

She despises Jews so much that she wants them to come back to the states.

[ooglymoogly]

180. I see you have joined in catapulting the propaganda

Helen was not saying Israeli's, Israeli's living within their borders, should go home to Poland,Germany, and America. She is saying Jews, invited by Israel, from anywhere in the world to come to Palestine and occupy these illegal settlements, that have been ethnically cleansed of Muslims, their rightful owners, go back to where the came from and leave Palestinians in their own homes whether they be Jews or Muslims.

[onenote]

190. she was saying all that? really

so does she (and you) believe that no israelis have moved to the occupied territories? Does she (or you) believe that its okay for Israelis to stay there but those who came from elsewhere should "go home".

Here are some facts, something one might expect a journalist of Ms. Thomas' caliber would know:

In recent years, emigration to Israel has been in the range of 15-20,000 per annum. Of those, less than fifty a year have come from Poland and around a hundred from Germany. Yet Ms. Thomas picked those countries? Do you really think she was thinking about recent emigres? Jews move to Israel these days from dozens of countries around the world and two of the three countries she mentions (and only because she mentioned AMerica as a near after thought) are the two countries most closely associated with the Holocaust and the two countries that provided the largest number of emigres when Israel was first founded over 60 years ago?

Give it up. You'e just embarassing yourself.

[ooglymoogly]

198. Did you even read my post.

the words were. Go back to wherever they came from, paraphrased. The occupied territories are not Israel. If Israeli's are settling there, they are in the same boat of occupying illegal settlements as anyone else who came from elsewhere or anywhere, to oust the Palestinians, occupying their homes, go back home to where they migrated from. She said go home. Get out of Illegally occupied territories whether it be to Israel, Poland, Germany, America or wherever. She did not say Israeli's living in Israel should go home to Poland, Germany and America which the press is presenting and which if true would be untenable, but it is not.

[ooglymoogly]

199. Your response is equally as preposterous

and is nothing more than talking point propaganda. You, like the press left out that; She also said America or wherever. And she was talking about settlements on Palestinian territories because that was what she was asked about. Your post is totally ingenuous and you know it. To pretend she was not talking about illegal settlements, on occupied lands and those only, is an ugly fraud; You have never as long you have posted, cared anything about the truth or searching it out and I usually take your posts with a grain of salt, considering the source and their adherence to whatever DLC talking points are in fashion.

[onenote]

208. fail

First, I specifically said she mentioned America. And you have no response whatsoever to her selection of two countries that she thinks that the Jews should go "home" to as the countries that are most closely identified with the Holocaust and that are not and have not been for a long time a significant source of emigration to Israel. Why Germany? Why Poland? Why not Ethiopia, which is the home of nearly 100 times as many recent emigres as Poland. Or even India (ten times as many) or Brazil or Chile or any of the dozens of countries that are the places of origin of more recent emigres than German and Poland? Is Ms. Thomas so woefully uniformed about current goings on in Israel that she thinks the folks moving into the settlements are in significant numbers newly arrived Jews from Germany and Poland? Please offer some credible explanation why she picked those two particular countries

[ooglymoogly]

211. Are you a child? What profound logic you posses.

you are a wonder of moonkind. Ingenuous is the word that fits the silly tack you are taking, or should I say your string-pullers are taking. Two and umpteen do not add up to four. Though if your logic is flawed by an agenda, I can see how it might.

[ooglymoogly]

212. P.S The millions of Jews murdered in the Holocaust did not come from America.

Nor does anybody make that claim unless it is for propaganda purposes where any and everything might be claimed. The migration of the Jews at that time was to America, not from it. The very fact that Helen said "and America" proves unequivocally what she was saying and what she meant.

[shirleym]

109. Was it stupid because it was stupid? Or was it stupid because it struck a nerve

among those who support the terrorism of Israel?

[ooglymoogly]

181. In just a few words, you have it. nt

[onenote]

209. it was stupid because it was stupid

She named Poland and Germany as two of the three specific places she suggested Jews go "home" to. That struck a nerve. Either Ms. THomas is ignorant of the fact that Germany and Poland are de minimis sources of recent emigration to Israel (less than 50 from Poland in a year, compared to, say, several thousand from Ethiopia or even hundreds from Brazil, India, and dozens of other countries) or she wasn't really just referring to recent emigres. Stupid either way.

[ooglymoogly]

213. Your logic is stupid because it is stupid.

It is propaganda 101 and once again you leave the most important part of her statement...."and America" which throws your ingenuous pronouncements into the trash zone of any thinking persons mind. You can fool most of the people some of the time does not work here on DU. You must be having much better luck in freeperville.

[bigwillq]

16. K and R (nt)

[malaise]

18. Lovely read

Rec - I miss William Pitt

[Booster]

20. Happy to K&R.

[Obamanaut]

21. Is this the same one?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=102890

[CaliforniaPeggy]

22. Unfortunately, it is. (nt)

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

42. I'm still here. But then again, threatening to kill people is not my style. -nt

[fascisthunter]

43. yes, that's him... a human being

anger got to him, as it does to most of us. He's a good guy...

[AuntPatsy]

83. What did he do? At least he has still has an avenue where he can still be heard.

[Name removed]

117. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[laughingliberal]

23. K&R for a moving piece about a great lady.

That is all.

[polly7]

24. K & R

If her interview in its entirety had been quoted, and not slashed to suit those who love calling anyone disagreeing with the latest IDF massacre 'anti-semites', she'd still be there asking questions. But let's not think too deeply about ALL her words, knee-jerk reactions are so much more satisfying. "And America ......... or anywhere else". But let's face it, no one else was all that eager to accept the millions needing refuge .... and it wasn't only the Jews, it was the handicapped, the gypsies, gays - yet no offer of safe refuge for them .... let alone an already occupied, functioning nation.

[OrpheusSang]

26. Remember the whole career

Thanks for posting this kpete, I think it's really important to remember someone for the entirety of their achievements, not just the way it ended. That goes for people who do many bad things but somehow leave/die/end presenting a good picture of themselves as well as those who, like Thomas do the opposite.

[volvoblue]

27. I find the abandonment of Thomas to be sickening.

What she said was not cool. However, this woman is a legend and hero to women.
To see her fellow journalists abandon her and instead of being strong by her, they went like pack hounds after her.
the betrayal is disgusting.
I wish there was some way I could let her know many of us have not abandoned her and support her.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. I find Thomas's anti-semitic bigotry to be sickening.

I'm glad there were few media outlets outside of Fox News to apologize for her bigotry.

[liberation]

30. Isn't Thomas a Semite herself?

I thought you could not have matter and anti-matter at the same time, so what is it?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. Would you prefer the specific "anti-jewish bigotry"

Over the general "anti-semitic bigotry"

Because that seems to me to be just a matter of dodging the issue.

[liberation]

41. Criticism of Israel = anti-jewish bigotry now? Is that the issue you are talking about?

[Warren DeMontague]

64. What I really like are the folks who say "no one is challenging Israel's right to exist"

and then they go ahead and do exactly that.

[liberation]

68. LOL, the realm of reality limiting your options, you decided that fantasy was a more fertile soil

for your argument.

I don't really like BS, but I heard it is a great fertilizer.

[rhett o rick]

91. Are the Jewish people the only people that cant be criticized? nm

[onenote]

72. I guess you are unfamiliar with the standard definition of "anti-semite"

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/anti-Semite
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-semite

Happy to help educate you.

[rpannier]

192. Thanks for bringing that up

I knew what the standard definition was, but I went exploring a little more and found some interesting history behind the term and anti-Jewish bias in general

I did not know that the term originated in the 19th century
That there are four types of antisemitism

and that many scholars do not use the hyphen when they are referring to specifically to Jews and use the hyphen when they are referring to Semitic peoples

Thanks again -- I am now better educated on the topic

:) :toast: :hi: :kick: :fistbump: :yourock:

[rhett o rick]

90. And I find your comments to be sickening. nm

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Warren DeMontague]

108. Ari Fleischer wears pants.

Therefore, anyone who wears pants is a treasonous coward!

[sabrina 1]

129. Ari Fleischer leaked the name of a U.S. undercover

agent endangering her life and those of her contacts in the ME. He then ran to the prosecutor to make a deal by ratting out others to save his own sorry ass.

I don't really care if he wears a purple tutu. What I do care about is that he is a cowardly, treasonous liar and not fit to wipe the shoes of Helen Thomas who has served this country well for so long by acting like a real journalist and I hope will continue to do so.

[sui generis]

162. Ari Fleischer wears many hats

His favorite is the "ass hat".

[sui generis]

163. dupe delete

[Ticonderoga]

150. But your "Homey"

Avidor Liebermans bigotry is acceptable to you is that correct? He said exactly the same thing by telling the Palestinians to go back to Syria and Jordan. What's with the hypocrisy?

[RaleighNCDUer]

174. Interesting how an anti-Semite would suggest that Israelies move

back to her own country - I thought that anti-Semites wanted to be rid of Jews, not that they wanted them to 'come home'.

[Hannah Bell]

29. +100

[quickesst]

40. Thats because too many....

... here are too fucking involved in being crowned "The Greatest Liberal Of All Time". That contest has been running since way before I joined in 2004. They're the same egois....er, I mean progressives who have that rare ability to find racists, homophobes, and every other thing the left has been fighting against in a FUCKING EMPTY BOX!!! Anyone who would cast aside a lifetime of fighting for truth, justice, and equality over one perhaps misguided statement thinks way to goddamn much of themselves, but if it puts them one small step further toward being "crowned", they're willing to scrape the bottom of the barrel to do it. Thanks.
quickesst

[Catherina]

44. There is a way. We send her roses and love. See this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8513929

[madrchsod]

31. no one mentions the racist right wing rabbi that"interviewed" her

oh well i guess half the story is all that`s needed to be fair and balanced

[defendandprotect]

56. Been wondering about that and who did the interview ...

among other things --

Like what did others say in reply?

And I guess I have to get back to the video to find out the actual question.

Overall, it seemed odd --


Was Helen in any way reacting to him?

[Warren DeMontague]

60. Did he force her to say that stuff?

People need to take responsibility for their own words. Helen Thomas is a grown-up. She said what she said, no one made her say it.

[HEyHEY]

114. No, but they were clearly leading questions.

[Ticonderoga]

149. Avidor Lieberman

was quoted as using the same exact rhetoric against the Palestinians in telling them to leave and go to Syria and Jordan. Was he ever asked to take responsibility for his words? Hell no.

[Warren DeMontague]

207. I read at least one piece in Newsweek that painted him as a major kook.

Was he asked to take responsibility for his words? If he wasn't, he certainly should have been. I don't think he has any business being in the Israeli government, that's for sure.


But he also doesn't have any business being a member of the White House Press Corps, and he's not. That's the point I think you're not getting, here.

[madfloridian]

32. Good for Will for standing up for her. Nice post.

[Generic Other]

33. "one bad act does not erase a lifetime of excellence"

Everyone says something we wish we could take back sometimes. I do it daily. Only those with nothing to say never seem to regret having spoken.

[MichiganVote]

35. When I'm 89 I expect to say a hell of a lot worse.

And from what I read on this board, I think I'll have plenty of company.

[mimitabby]

37. sorry i don't agree with your last paragraph

VERY STUPID? no, I don't think so. Misspoke? perhaps.

Compare that to all the many many ways ALL of us have misspoken, I don't think it was very stupid. Nor do I believe it justifies the termination of her career.

[Catherina]

45. Proud to be Praise Helen Thomas recommendation #94 n/t

[rtassi]

46. I don't think Helen' s comment was stupid or even wrong ...

Just once again against the "alliance"

[Beringia]

47. Thanks for Helen Thomas

She was great in the press corps, asking the right questions.

[David Zephyr]

48. With much gratitude, William. K&R.

Thank you. You said it for me, and as always, better than I could have. :)

[Kajsa]

49. Thank you, kpete for sharing this.

I shared it on another Democratic website.
It needs to be heard!

K&R

[Better Believe It]

50. It was a misunderstood comment which the right-wingers distorted here and in Israel.

She has never been a bigot .... never .... and is not a racist now.

K & R

[fascisthunter]

52. .

damn straight

[Warren DeMontague]

57. What, exactly, was "misunderstood" about it?

She seemed to think it was worth apologizing for, a lot of other people seem to think it merited an apology---but, if there was some misunderstanding, please- explain precisely what she meant and why it was a reasonable argument to make.

[liberation]

65. To err is human, to apologize takes a big person, to forgive is divine...

... words to live by.

Unless, of course the apology affects your narrative, in which case all bets are off.

[Warren DeMontague]

75. I don't have a narrative vis a vis Helen Thomas.

I think she said something offensive, and I'm not the only one who feels that way. I'm not Israeli, so I'm not personally situated to 'forgive' her or not, beyond that, people on this planet say a lot of stupid shit, I really don't have the time to spend concerning myself with all of it.

Nevertheless, you didn't answer the question in the post, which was, what, specifically, was misunderstood about what she said? (I mean, maybe there's nothing to forgive, if it's all a giant misunderstanding, right?) So I'd like to know specifically what it is the people claiming that think she actually said.

[liberation]

92. I am not israeli either, so I have no fucking clue

Also I don't agree that intellectually disingenuous statements automatically become a query because there is a question mark at the end.

She said something, that some people found offensive and I agree with them BTW. But I am not a hypocrite as to completely ignore Helen Thomas's context and where she may be coming from as a person of Lebanese descent about something that may hit close to her heart. She apologized. Her career is over. What else is there to say about this issue?

Had she not apologized, had she stood by her words, had she not paid a fairly heavy price for her words. Then yeah, I could understand some of the accusations being thrown her way.

Are her original comments correct/realistic? I most definitively don't think so. Yes, she should have known better, and she paid the price. But if people like to pretend they have never say something irrational about a subject that hits close to home, then they are full of shit. I would like to see a public zionist figure who has not said something as ignorant (or more) as Helen Thomas did. Since she already paid the price, I find this after the fact gang bang utterly hypocritical.

[Warren DeMontague]

104. I'm telling you it's a question.

Believe me, don't believe me, answer it, don't answer it, I don't give a shit.


But if you want to play some goofy navel gazing game where you try to tell me it's not a question, honestly, I can't see the point.

[sabrina 1]

96. She spoke in anger and frustration at a situtation

that involves brutality and inhumane treatment of a people who do not deserve it. And she is not alone in that anger towards Israel's treatment of the Palestinian people, and of this country's silence on the matter.

The fact that now the entire world, including countries supportive of Israel, from Africa to Europe, Australia, South America, Asia, including large organizations from many different countries, (with the U.S., standing virtually alone), have unanymously condemned Israel's actions and particularly the killing of peace activists trying to relieve the suffering of the Palestinian people.

There is a consensus that Israel is wrong. That consensus has forced Egypt to open its border and to no longer assist in the war crime of collective punishment of innocent civilians. And this in turn has forced the Israeli Government to start lifting the blockade. Too bad people had to die to accomplish this. However it is a move in the right direction. Countries have gone down the wrong path before. It's not a new phenomenon, and they have managed to get back on track.

Helen's comments while badly worded, referred to the illegality of Israel's occupation of Palestinian land. She could have been more specific, but the rest of the world seems to have understood what she meant.

It serves the purpose of the rabid right to attempt to paint her as a bigot, but a majority of people around the globe know this is a lie. Only an ever shrinking minority, including the likes of Ari Fleischer, have chosen to make the assumptions you are making. The old and now way over-used talking point that anyone who is angry at the Israeli Government's brutality towards the Palestinian people is a bigot, just doesn't get much traction anymore. Israel is now taking some baby steps to try to repair its shattered image around the world. I think they should be encouraged in those efforts.

[Warren DeMontague]

103. Bullshit. Most people know exactly what she meant when she said "they should go back to Germany".

So the comments were badly worded, spoken out of anger and frustration, and "could have been more specific", yet I and Ari Fleischer are the only ones who took them to mean that Israel as a nation should not exist? You do understand that, to the people who DON'T accept the (any) legitimacy of the State of Israel, it is ALL "Palestinian Land"? :shrug:

If she didn't mean what it's pretty friggin' clear to most people (your broad brush assertions of what the "rest of the world" does and doesn't think notwithstanding) that she meant, then there was no need for her to apologize, since she had nothing to apologize for.

The larger situation of the occupation, Gaza, etc. CLEARLY needs positive steps in a genuine peace-seeking direction (and how the hell do you know what I think, speaking of assumptions? I've never said anything other than that I think the occupation of the territories was a big mistake from the get-go) but the situation would ALSO be helped by many people stopping the dumb, duplicitous game whereby they pretend that they're genuinely interested in a long-term, two state, peaceful solution, when the agenda is really about ending the State of Israel, never reconciling with the State of Israel's existence, and never accepting that the State of Israel has a legitimate right to exist. That's been a problem for a VERY long time.

[sabrina 1]

118. You are angry. And in a way your comment,

your accusations spoken in anger, like Helen's, prove the point that words spoken in anger should not be taken seriously.

We do agree that 'the situation would be helped by many people stopping the dumb, duplicitous games'. That applies to both sides.

Peace is possible. It happened in Northern Ireland, a situation where many believed it was impossible given the centuries long history of the conflict. But once both sides accepted the fact that compromises were necessary, that neither side could have everything they wanted, that peace was preferable to the non-stop violence, the heart-break on both sides, the lives consumed by hatred, a way was finally paved to end the violence.

I am hopeful that the same thing can happen in the ME. But that will require all sides to make a new beginning, to set aside, difficult though it will be, hatred and pride and the need for revenge. It isn't easy, it wasn't easy in N. Ireland, I know this for a fact, but the reward of all people living in peace without fear makes it worthwhile. To come to that point all sides have to grow weary of living with death and destruction, the soul destroying hatred and mistrust. I know that point seems far away in Israel/Palestine, but I think there are glimmers of hope right now and I am sure that ordinary people on both sides, with proper leadership, would welcome an end to this tragic conflict.

That is what I believe a majority of decent people wish for. I am sorry if I said something that offended you. I agree with much of what you have just said.

If two people on an internet board cannot come to some agreement on a topic as controversial as this one, then there is little hope for a resolution of the actual conflict. So, in that spirit, I apologize for making you angry and hope in the future if we are to discuss this issue, I at least will try harder to understand where you are coming from.

[Warren DeMontague]

125. I hope you're right. And, for the record, I'm not angry.

I appreciate your apology. :thumbsup: If I offended you, I apologize as well. Believe it or not, I generally try to stay out of the I/P stuff. It's just not worth it.

I do get tired at times of seeing certain distortions around this story; a willful papering over of the history of attempts to annihilate Israel since its inception.

And I am not oblivious to the history on the other side, the people dispossessed, the decades of unacceptable refugee status, the humanitarian crises.

I'm certainly not a fan of Likud or Netanyahu, nor do I think all criticism of Israel's government or actions is "anti-semitism". I don't even think what Helen Thomas said was, technically, "anti-semitic", I do think it was a blatantly ugly admission of, again, what a lot of people seem to believe but don't say out loud; and many on the "left", rightly or wrongly, have a tendency to view Israel solely through a lens of European Imperialism.

The truth is far more complicated, IMHO, and whether or not one accepts the legitimacy of Israel's creation, it is not going away. And when people who obstensibly claim to be seeking only peace are shown to have an agenda that is about that version of peace which has been too often promoted since 1947-- "We'll have peace when you leave"-- well, not to justify it, but it opens a window into the motivations of Israelis who say "They're never going to accept us being here, so why don't we do what we need to do to secure our own interests, and stop pursuing co-existence?"

Likewise, Palestinians who see settlement building continue, I'm sure feel the same way.

I do hope most of us want the same thing, or at least a reasonable similar vision. Sadly, I used to be much more convinced it was close at hand- the 90s held a great deal of promise and Bill Clinton, despite some of the other weaknesses of his presidency (and I'm not talking about the blow job) brought the ME closer to a real, lasting solution than I think its been since the six day war.

I still believe that rational, cooler heads on both sides still have a reasonably close, relatively cogent idea of what a workable 2 state solution/end deal might look like; borders close to the Green Line, Some mechanism for free trade and contiguous travel between Gaza & the WB (although with the Hamas/Fatah issue, that has been complicated as well) Perhaps the internationalization of Jersusalem as a whole, because no one will ever untangle that mess.

Unfortunately, since the year 2000 most of what we've seen has been retrenchment, digging in, and increased cynicism on all sides.

It is sad.

[sabrina 1]

128. I so agree with you about the nineties and the prospect of

peace seeming closer then. I really believe that if Clinton had had four more years, or Gore had won, it might have happened.

I blame Bush for ending those hopes. He came in saying that he was not going to continue the peace initiatives of the previous administration until 'both sides are willing to talk to each other'. That was unbelievable. He basically said 'screw peace'. But mystifying as it was then, I think now we know why. War, not peace, was on the Bush agenda and I often wondered if they supported the hardliners in Israel in order to get support for the Iraq and maybe Iran wars.

I think Obama is trying to return to those efforts, but the job is harder now.

As for Hamas this is what happens when a people are oppressed. They gravitate to those they see as strong and willing to fight for them. This is what created the IRA and other organizations like that. Occupations create militant organizations. When occupations end, there is not need for them.

I believe the Obama administration is working behind the scenes as Israel has agreed to ease the blockade this week. That will go a long way to ease some of the tension and maybe create a better atmosphere for talks.

I don't know anyone who wants Israel to disappear. It's been there all of my life and the lives of millions of others, so it would be like saying 'Italy should disappear' to most people. They just want the violence to stop. And yes, most don't know much about the history of the area and aren't going to take the trouble to learn. They see the news and react to it.

15 years ago I thought peace in N.Ireland was impossible. Clinton played a role in that also and I had a chance to thank Hillary Clinton once for all they did to bring about a peace however fragile it was. Her response to me was 'and we want to do so much more'.

And that is why I see glimmers of hope. I am not thrilled either with a lot that Clinton did, but they did try to help resolve some of those difficult conflicts and did have some success. Hopefully they still feel the same way.

As for Helen's remark, I think she, more than anyone, regrets it as I believe her when she says it does not reflect what is in her heart. We've seen and come to know her for so long that I really believe she wants to see peace and is tired of the violence. I'm sure she's aware of her age and how little time she has left in this world. Older people often lose their patience with things as they don't feel they have time to BE patient. She is a smart woman, she knows Israel is not going anywhere so I doubt very much that is what she meant or wants.

Anyhow, don't give up on the prospect of peace there. It will have to happen sooner or later, it always does. All wars come to an end. I just hope it's sooner rather than later. And thank you for explaining your position rather than just 'yelling'. We agree on more than we disagree on :-)

[Owl]

214. Well said sabrina 1.

[DFW]

134. Maybe this will help?

Helen was asked about the occupied territories, and the comment was deliberately interpreted to mean
all of Israel by some, and also noteworthy is that she was ambushed by some teenage kid with a video
recorder that sat on it for a week until the raid on the Gaza ships had gone down. Sure enough, plenty
of posts all over the net showed up saying she was anti-Semitic (kinda difficult for an Arab, seeing as
how Arabs are Semites, too), and that she was reacting to an ambush interview conducted right before a
doctor's appointment days before the Gaza ship raid occurred.

She thought so little of it at the time, she didn't even mention it at dinner that night.

[Better Believe It]

97. I think Paul Jay explained it best in his article which I hope you will read and consider:

Jay writes:

"What Thomas clearly did say she was talking about was Jews that had come from Germany, Poland and America. Now it's likely that most of the Jewish refugees that came to Palestine from Europe just after the War, did so not because they "belong to the land of Israel", but due to fact that the American, Canadian and British governments wouldn't drop their anti-Jewish quotas even after the horrors of the genocide were fully exposed (let's talk about some real anti-Semites).

The American Zionist organizations at the time did not fight for a more open immigration policy to allow Jews into America; they lobbied furiously for the Jewish refugees to go to Palestine as part of a move towards the founding of a Jewish state.

As is well known, this state was created in the process of expelling thousands of Palestinians from their lands, people who had nothing to do with the European genocide against the Jews. You cannot say the same about the Anglo-American countries that for much of the '30s were quite happy to equip Hitler with cars and machinery. Quite content to shut their mouths as Hitler began an ethnic cleansing that would end in barbaric genocide.

In the case of the Palestinians, what Israel needs to do has been made very clear in UN resolutions and in the demands of the Palestinians. In spite of the illegal blockade of Gaza, almost no one, including the Hamas representative I interviewed a few weeks ago, says the Jews have to get out. Ok there are some that say it, people get very angry after 62 years in a refugee camp, but what most Palestinians want is to live as equals with Jews in a truly democratic state.

It's way past time that we can discuss Israel and Palestine without the McCarthyite witch hunt atmosphere that has ruled for sixty years.

I said in my last blog, not all criticism of Israel is anti-Semitism - but some is.

Helen Thomas' isn't."

If you disagree with his take on her comments you should write to him.

You can read his full article at:

http://communities.canada.com/shareit/blogs/reality/archive/2010/06/07/in-defense-of-helen-thomas.aspx

[defendandprotect]

69. Agree . . ..

[Warren DeMontague]

76. I think it was all filmed on a soundstage in Area 51, myself.

There's simply no way Helen Thomas could have made it through the Van Allen Radiation Belts.

[gleaner]

51. Helen Thomas is the best ...

I will never forget her standing and prodding Bush's press secretaries at his press conferences and briefings while most of the other reporters just sat there letting the lies pass.

I also remember how she went and interviewed the peace demonstrators and stood with them when everyone else in the media ignored them.

I hate losing her wisdom and tenacity and desire to see that the right thing is done. It is a great loss. I do hope she writes the tell all to end all tell alls. I'll be first in line to buy it.

[scrubthedata]

53. I've admired Helen Thomas all my life

I can't believe that this is how a wonderful, liberal pioneer is making her exit from the stage she's occupied for so long.

[liberation]

58. The only positive outcomes from incidents like these...

... it is that it is very easy to see people's true stripes when push comes to shove. It is fascinating to see so many people, clearly operating under the impression they have a sacrosanct monopoly on bigotry, accuse others of their own projection.

[The_Casual_Observer]

55. Helen spoke her own mind about this & didn't give a shit what anybody thought

Call it stupid or whatever, but it's her opinion. It's pretty clear that singular opinion is taboo, even though it didn't advocate violence or anything else particularly harmful
to anybody.

[Warren DeMontague]

59. Telling the Jews in Israel to "Go Home" to Germany, Poland, etc. isn't "particularly harmful"?

How would that work, precisely?

[liberation]

61. Last I checked, not a single Jew from Israel left their country following Helen Thomas's suggestion.

That is how it works exactly.

[Warren DeMontague]

63. You having trouble with the old reading comprehension?

Why don't you re-read the post I was responding to.

Anyway, if you can't see why it's an offensive fucking thing to say, fine~ start your own News Bureau and hire her back.

[liberation]

70. You asked how it works, I told you how it works.

Personal opinions, regardless of their offensiveness are just that: personal opinions.

She said something people had an issue with, she apologized, her career is over.

My reading and comprehension skills have nothing to do with whatever narrative you adhere to. Although, technically, narrative is part of the literary realm too.

Cheers.

[Warren DeMontague]

74. "even though it didn't advocate violence or anything else particularly harmful"

Yes, it advocated that the Jews in Israel "Go Home". Which, according to that poster, isn't "particularly harmful to anyone".


:shrug:

Just out of curiosity; do you find anything offensive in what she said? Not "harmful", just offensive.

[liberation]

84. Oh, the "harmful" BS narrative not working, now you have to move the goal posts...

I have absolutely no issue recognizing how her words could be "offensive" to some. But thanks to my great SAT scores, and my access to Dictionaries, I have no issue also understanding that "offensive" and "harmful" are two very different fucking things. I also would advise you that before you chastise other people's reading and comprehension skills, that you brush up on the meaning of terms like "advocacy." As I said, let me know when a single Jew from Israel has been forced to leave his or her country due to Heleh Thomas's advocacy. Then yeah, you may have a fucking leg to stand regarding the "harm" of her words.

She also apologized for her remarks, do you know what "apology" means?

Her 50+ yr career is now over, it ended not on her terms but in a very negative note. What else do you fucking want? A burning at the stake?


Now that Israel has one less ill tempered 90 year old Lebanese lady to threaten her. Can we go back to discus real issues?

Out of curiosity, do you consider "harmful" bullets to the head of 19 yr old American kids in international waters?

[Warren DeMontague]

107. I'm not moving any goalposts. I'm referring back to the original post I responded to.

Which is still there, for anyone reading the sub-thread to see.

You seem to be coming a little unhinged over this, maybe you should take a break. :shrug:

[grahampuba]

113. beyond goalposts

Corollaries, are hardly necessary to see to the real matter here. Those asking her forgivers what exactly she meant must already have absolute clarity on what exactly she did as to be passing this level of judgement.

Honestly you interpret that strictly as a denial of the right of Israel to exist?
Spell that one out, implication by implication.
You must surely be crystal clear on that 10 second sound bite.

[Warren DeMontague]

115. What?

Here's what she said:

Nesenoff: Any comments on Israel? We're asking everybody today, any comments on Israel?

Thomas: Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine.

Nesenoff: Oooh. Any better comments on Israel?

Thomas: Remember, these people are occupied and it's their land. It's not German, it's not Polish ...

Nesenoff: So where should they go, what should they do?

Thomas: They go home.

Nesenoff: Where's the home?

Thomas: Poland. Germany.

Nesenoff: So you're saying the Jews go back to Poland and Germany?

Thomas: And America and everywhere else.

'Cmon. Don't try to be cute. It's pretty "crystal clear" what she's saying here. And, she apologized. Why apologize if there was nothing to apologize for? :shrug:

[grahampuba]

120. palestine?

Lots of different 'Palestines' there, most of them have dates, wars and UN resolutions attached to them. Which one do you think she was referring to?

[Warren DeMontague]

122. I think the "Germany and Poland" is a clue.

If all she was suggesting that Israel pull out of the settlements in the West Bank (although, wouldn't it make more sense to say "send them back to Tel Aviv"? :shrug:), hell, *I* certainly don't think she has anything to apologize for. I feel the same way. So do most Israelis, actually.

[Electric Monk]

124. "and America and everywhere else"

is being conspicuously ignored. How many times has that part of the quote been left out?

Reading between the lines, most Americans don't want them over here either, but it's a more subtle form of racism.

[Warren DeMontague]

126. Yes, I wouldn't know what to do if I was surrounded by Jews.

Um, except that's pretty much the description of the place where I grew up. Not to mention, more than half my family.

The Germany and Poland offers a specific historical context, that's why I quoted it. While, certainly, there are Israelis who can trace their lineage back to the States, I don't think the numbers are nearly as high.

If you honestly believe that I left that part out because I'm afraid of a tidal wave of Israelis coming to dinner ... :rofl:... I have news for you; most of the Israelis I know don't *want* to move here.:o At least, they certainly didn't during the Bush years -- to the one, they thought he was a psychotic, goofy, Fundy cowboy.

I do know several who've moved to Australia, but that wasn't listed as an option...

So Riddle me this, Batman- if she wasn't saying what most people think she was saying, if she wasn't saying what she apparently apologized for saying; then why didn't she say "back to Tel Aviv"? :shrug:

[sui generis]

169. I guess hyperbole and kvetching is lost here

again with the confusing jews with israelis and jewish history with the history of israel. Can someone please tell me exactly how old modern spoken hebrew is? That's right. Helen Thomas is older than israel and modern hebrew.

I declare ALL of you guilty.

What a ridiculous thing to argue over - she had an opinion, not an editorial. She's a journalist, not a member of AIPAC. She's human and subject to the same frustrations and lapses of judgement that everyone else is, and at her age she has a right to give an occasional cranky hyperbolic flippant answer, whether or not any agrees that she has a right to do so.

[RaleighNCDUer]

183. It's not particularly harmful, as no-one would think they should actually

do anything because of what she said.

It's also not particularly helpful, because the Jews really causing problems are the American and formerly Soviet immigrants who make up 90% of the new settlement population in the occupied territories, and who are likeliest to back Netenyahu and Likud. They don't know, or care, about the history of the region, of how the first government of Israel was largely radical and socialist, and the original intent was not a theocratic Jewish state but a Jewish majority democracy that would be a haven for all Jews in the diaspora.

[onenote]

73. that "singular" opinion is taboo?

So, if someone in Thomas' position had said African-Americans should go back to Africa or that all Latinos should go back to Puerto Rico or Mexico that wouldn't get them in any trouble and you'd be fine with that?

[superduperfarleft]

191. Are you arguing that african-americans are an occupying force in the US? n/t

[NorthCarolina]

62. The last Journalist has left the Press Corps. eom

[AikidoSoul]

77. Bless the woman for being courageous

And persistent, and right, and a thorn when it's right to be a thorn.

[AuntPatsy]

79. Thank you...

[Safya]

80. Helen Thomas situation is stupid and Childish

You are either with complete free of speech or not. I mean cmon preventing people from saying what they want to say will not change how do they believe. People shouldn't be that sensitive when it comes to words especially when they don't care an unarmed teen was being murdered in the sea.

It also gives the opportunity for all US haters around the world and especially in Muslim communities to say that US is a country controlled by Israel to destroy them.

I think what happened was stupid, they should have handled it with brain not with the old way of kick her out. It was proved all over the history that this kind of behavior doesn't work.

And that is why I support Helen.

[DeSwiss]

81. Hear, hear.

K&R

Helen Thomas was right about Israel

It is unfortunate that Helen Thomas was forced to retire after speaking her mind about Israel. I happen to agree with her although I wouldn't have worded it the way she did.

No religion should have a homeland.

Whenever there is a religious homeland it creates a caste system where one group of people are superior to all other religious groups. If the Jews get one then it justifies the Muslims getting one, then the Christians will want one, and eventually the Church of Scientology will want their homeland. In contrast, America is a secular nation where all religions and non-religions are equal.

I also don't like censorship.

It seems that you can't say anything the criticizes Israel or draw cartoons of Muhammad without losing your job or your life. Helen is a role model for me. Like Helen, I don't accept this form of oppression and I will say whatever I want about anyone I want.

I encourage others to do the same.

Marc Perkel
My blog: http://marc.perkel.com

[bleever]

82. Easy for people to beat up an 89 year old lady for saying something stupid.

Give yourselves a big hand, Helen Thomas haters!

And list your contributions to American history to prove your standing and infallibility.

[johnaries]

85. Thank you for posting this, kpete.

I tried to say something similar, but I could never say it as well as Pitt.

K&R for you, for Will Pitt, and for a "lifetime of excellence".

[Richard Steele]

88. Fucking A-doodle-RIGHT. K&R

[rhett o rick]

89. Helen Thomas, one of the great Americans of our time. nm

[bertman]

94. Recommended even though I don't agree with the comment about her

statement being very stupid.

[donheld]

95. She's irreplacable

[Douglas Carpenter]

98. kick and recommend!!

[JEB]

99. It's not like she

killed 9 people shooting some at close range in the back of the head while boarding a vessel in International water.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

157. Good point!

[suffragette]

100. Well said, Will

Thanks kpete for posting this.

[BrklynLiberal]

101. MSM will do anything to distract from the real problems...including attacking a "little old lady"

who happened to be one of the most outspoken reporters in Washington DC,,

[ProudDad]

102. Amen, and Hear Hear!

And even the drum beat against her was trumped up bullshit...

I heard her comment as being about the illegal occupation of the West Bank and that the settlers should go back to from where they came.

But the right-wing and fanatic zionists don't let facts or reason get in the way of a good ambush...

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Control-Z]

110. Thank you, kpete. n/t

[grahampuba]

111. Helen was framed...

Framed into that tired, solely dualistic approach that only debate on Israel and Palestine can conjure. Helen Thomas, probably yet at 90 has more chutzpah, tenacity and frame of reference than the majority of those rallying to run her out of town could employ on their best day.
Ill take one cringe inducing statement over a continuum of lapdog dreck any day, especially if its from an apologetic 90 year old..

[Ozymanithrax]

152. I don't think Helen would allow the word chutzpah in her mouth.

You might try the Arabic cognate "ḥaṣāfah."

Chutzpah is, after all, yiddish. a Jewish langague which she seemed to feel had no place in the middle east.

[proteus_lives]

112. Thank you for your hate Helen Thomas.

Once again, I must wonder if everyone would be defending her if she targeted another group.

[HEyHEY]

116. yesterday I read a post

From a duer gleefully talking about how he'd like to see the Palestinians given what they want then he could sit back and be entertained as they killed each other. The poster said that the sooner that happened the better.

This was a man calling down Helen's remarks. Perhaps the racism should be dealt with in house in Israel before they start pointing fingers.

[proteus_lives]

119. I'm pointing the finger.

Why are you talking about other people?

And let me ask you, would you be supporting Thomas if she had targeted another group?

[HEyHEY]

121. Depends on the group, if it were blacks, or mexicans - yes.

I'm kidding, of course.

It really would depend on the group. However, she was targeting Israelis, not Jewish people. Therein lies the difference. That said, I can't think of any major global conflicts in which I have a clear side I support.

Had she said "Jewish people should get the hell out of gaza and go back to Europe and take Jewish people born in the middle east with you," then I'd say it was racism.

Do you consider Native Americans racist when they say we should go back to Europe?

[Raster]

136. Oh no, HEyHEY, you've introduced a bit of logic and fairness into the argument....

...that cannot be tolerated.

[proteus_lives]

197. "Do you consider Native Americans racist when they say we should go back to Europe?"

Yep. If a Native American told me to go back to Europe, I'd tell them to go fuck themselves.

[frustrated_lefty]

196. This incident makes me think of people in glass houses.

I think she made a poorly thought out comment. Given that she has covered the news for so many years, I think she may personally resent the free pass Israel gets on international issues of this sort. She shouldn't have voiced that frustration, being who she is.

Weigh her against anyone else in her field, though. She's pushed presidents. She's called BS BS. Shrub had to lock her in a dungeon.

If you can go 50+ years challenging the leaders of nations with questions and demonstrably show an interest in the pursuit of truth, without once making a regretted comment (and she has apologized for it), then throw a stone.

That woman has done more for political freedom than the people who would label her a racist.

[me b zola]

123. K&R

[avaistheone1]

127. YES!!!

Thank you Helen,and thank you WRP.


:kick:

[Paper Roses]

130. Have any of us not said a dumb thing in our lifetimes?

Of course not. Hers was an unfortunate comment in front of a camera for the world to see.

You are correct, she should not be vilified, she should be thanked for her years of hard work.

Thank you, Ms. Thomas

[freddie mertz]

132. k & R. A fair and thoughtful piece representing Pitt at his best.nt.

[Enthusiast]

135. K&R! nt

[Forkboy]

137. A major chunk of the people on DU trashing her don't give a fuck about Israel.

It's really about her relationship with Obama that drove them nuts. Take a look at the names of the people trashing her, and you'll find that most of them are also hardcore Obama supporters, many of whom were already trashing Helen before she said this.

Helen was wrong, but these people are full of shit about their real reasons for hating her. It has nothing to do with Jews, who many of them probably don't give two fucks about in any other context.

[Moochy]

139. Too many opt-in loyalty flaks

Not enough time to ignore them all.

[bigwillq]

140. Good post.

:thumbsup:

[bigwillq]

141. Good post.

:thumbsup:

[superduperfarleft]

147. +1000. n/t

[Richd506]

138. When Bush goes to hell

He'll be forced to give an eternal press conference with a likeness of Helen Thomas.

[Moochy]

143. K&R

[Ticonderoga]

144. Clearly this was

an indiscretion manifested by passion, The media blew it completely out of context as her comments were reactionary to what had just been perpetrated by the Israeli Defense forces at the direction of their Criminal Government. Why wasn't that outrage from the media focused on the 19 year old American murdered in this illegal act or the 21 year old woman blinded for protesting the barbarism of the IDF. This country's priorities truly suck.

[Morrisons Ghost]

145. Whew!

At least he didn't threaten to beat her ass!:evilgrin:

[superduperfarleft]

148. Unlike Helen, the other one deserved it. n/t

[AngryOldDem]

188. Yep.

I've never seen a site where the Cult of Personality is so huge.

[ColesCountyDem]

153. To paraphrase Bill Clinton, God only knows what you could have gotten MY 89 y/o mother to say!

My mother tended to, ermmm, 'speak her mind', God rest her soul.

:rofl:

[Balderdash]

155. Perfectly stated and let me reiterate

Thank you, Helen Thomas. For everything.

[femrap]

156. Hell....

who hasn't said something they wish they hadn't??? And now she is forced to quit? Give me a fucking break. Did sexual pervert Vitter quit? Fuck no. And that dude was paying a prostitute to diaper him so he could shit in it and climax!

We're a bunch of pathetic apologists. No spine. No fight.

I'm disgusted. She should have kept her job. She was the only journalist who asked tough questions.

AIPAC makes me sick.

[sui generis]

161. let me dispel any equivocation, she should not be gone

Since when does having a hyperbolic opinion that some people disagree with disqualify a reporter from doing their job? She's a journalist, not an editorialist. She wasn't advocating ethnic cleansing, she was, ironically, kvetching.

We really are a circular firing squad.

[AngryAmish]

179. She is an editorialist. She writes an opinion column. No more strait reporting.

Or she wrote an opinion column. Now she is retired.











But I wonder if this is a "retirement" like in pro wrestling where she will come back but wearing a mask or something. She could call herself "El Judenhass" or something like that.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

164. K&R

[lpeacock]

167. William Pitt´s Commentary on Helen Thomas

Sorry, but not quite good enough.

Why not? Because I don´t think what Helen Thomas said, was "stupid". The rest, of Pitt´s post, supporting Thomas, I agree with.

But in every commentary I have read so far, that supports Helen Thomas, there is this niggling thing hanging in the air that it was inappropriate or "stupid".

I disagree. And I am sorry she bowed out so readily. I find it fine of Helen Thomas that she made apologies, so that if people misunderstood what she said, that what she was saying was, she was talking about how to achieve peace in the Middle East. But no, her comments have been construed as defamatory and that is ridiculous. And the manner in which this story has been twisted and the outcome, Helen´s bowing out, makes me sick. We need people like Helen and how many journalists are there, like Helen who will challenge "the system" and who have access to the MSM?. None, or do you all know of anyone else with the guts to confront our Presidents as Helen has?

Helen Thomas was calling out the Israelies for occupying Palestine. It´s really that simple. And it´s quite ironic that this "story" and her resignation, came on the heels of an attack upon people trying to supply people living in the Gaza strip, with humanitarian help. And no, I cannot vouch for the credentials of the ship and the people on it. We are dealing with very complex issues and aliances, but I DO think that Helen Thomas was expressing an opinion, that needed saying. And, unfortunately, her opinion has become MUDD.

[RaleighNCDUer]

184. Knowing what she meant, and knowing what she said are two different things.

I, too, believe that she was speaking generally about the occupied territories and Gaza, about the injustice perpetrated on the Palestinian people by the Likud government. If she wanted to rail against Jews she had 60 years when she could have done so. I don't remember any such other statements, so I will attribute it to nothing more than her being just short of 90 YEARS OLD, and a little tired in her thinking. I only hope I'm half so cogent at 70 as she is today.

I wish her a long and pleasant retirement.

[ooglymoogly]

187. Exactly....any light, honor or honesty

has just been snuffed out in a now question-less briefing room. Let the propaganda fly. She tolerated no bullshit and that was the thorn in the biggest lies ever being told.

[MisterP]

218. the backhanded approach is a very good way for hegemony to "catapult the propaganda"

just as 2005 praises for Dan Rather always insisted that he was "snookered" into the Bush NG papers--thereby reaffirming the whole RW fabrications about variable spacing not existing (it was around since like 1961), media unreliability and bias, and Bush's service, and ignoring the secretary who said that the papers were legit

or when 80s Dems condemned the Contra and Salvadoran civil wars, yet agreed with the WH that Managua and the FMLN were wicked, democracy-hatin' Commies with programs of pure evil, or when Sen. Inouye told Ollie North he'd acted so bad, he was acting like a Red...

[RayStar]

171. Great Post

This is so awful and I agree with your post completely. Strong woman Ms. Thomas has proven over and over. GWB started the destruction and lack of respect for Ms. Thomas. I can still hear the gasp when he called on another reporter in the first briefing. Shameful act of him.

[newtothegame]

172. This guy really fancies himself some modern philosopher doesn't he?

While I appreciate his passion, his vision of schoolchildren reading his writings in some textbook someday is probably a bit off...

[ooglymoogly]

177. Condemning with faint praise or condemning with qualified praise indeed.

By not knowing what she actually said and meant, which, as always with Helen, with no bull, was right on the money, you joined in the propaganda and the misguided crucifixion.
Helen has chastised Palestinians when they were in the wrong and now the Israeli's are in the wrong. They are occupying other peoples land, shelling and bulldozing their homes without a care if folks are inside, brutally forcing any survivors into oblivion; Then building settlements on those stolen lands to the outrage of the rest of the world, except for the US, for whom Israel can do no wrong, then inviting Jews from anywhere in the world to come live in those illegal settlements. It is these folks she admonished to go home; To Poland, to Germany and to America or wherever they came from. You are joining in the crooked attack on her by saying, "But she did all these other wonderful things" You are condemning her by saying "But". She was right on the other things and she was right on this. Damning with faint praise and with an incorrect analysis of the truth of the situation. The way she said that truth in this world of propaganda and lies, has proven to be poorly articulated; Not carefully parsed enough that a mountain of propaganda could not be piled onto it, but none the less, it was, as always with Helen, the well studied and well understood, not tainted by bullshit, truth.

[AngryAmish]

178. Was it "One stupid comment" or her real beliefs?

A stupid comment is like when the Mayor of Milwaukee called Jesse Jackson a "spear-chucker". That was an instant, regrettable slip of the tongue. Ms. Thomas clearly articulated her Jew-hating feelings.

[ooglymoogly]

185. What a truly ignorant insult to a woman who has

proven over her lifetime that she does not let bullshit into her judgments of what is really going on.

[duhneece]

182. I love you Helen

I love your grace, your courage, your curiosity, your strength, your point of view...everything about you.

[dyingnumbers]

186. Thanks for nothing...

Why do outspoken people in the media apologize for saying exactly what is on their minds? Personally, I would have retired instead of apologized, but not both.

It's naive to pretend that her position on the issue didn't exist until she articulated it, because she's not the only person in the world who feels that way.

What I really want to know is how long ago had she decided that she was working with hypocrites, before she finally worked up the nerve to speak against the status quo, consequences be damned...

[AngryOldDem]

189. I think she's been fed up with the bullshit for quite some time.

You could tell by the tone of her voice and the questions she asked at some of the recent WH circle jerks. She's seen a lot in her career and I think she just got her bellyful at the pretense of being told the truth by press secretaries and presidents. If I had to guess, I think her disgust probably started somewhere back in the Nixon administration.

And welcome to DU.

[ooglymoogly]

215. This Grand Dame is going on 90; Can you really blame her

for wanting to live whats left peacefully, though I would have wished she had not apologized. I suspect a book is coming. The briefing room is a lost cause anyway; It is just a propaganda fest of stringpullers and their acolytes. Helen was the only honest light there and that light has been snuffed.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

193. When will Billy Graham be similarly ostracized for his blatant anti-semitism?

As you remember, was caught on tape making slurs with Dick Nixon.

But when that old bigot passes, it will get a passing mention at best - and you can count on whoever is president at the time praising him to the high heavens and probably attending the funeral.

Sure, Graham apologized - decades later ... when he was caught. But ever since, president republican and Democrat alike have still gone out of their way to kiss his ass.

Say something nice about Thomas and you're (wrongly) accused of supporting an anti-semite. But call Graham a bigot and you're part of a war on Christianity.

The difference is Graham was using run-of-the-mill, good ol' boy hatred of supposed northeastern jewish elites. Thomas was making a point about policy and militarism.

Thomas' remarks will eclipse her career in the eyes of the media. Graham's will be a footnote if they even get mentioned again.

Helen is persona non grata. Graham is still Saint Billy

[Electric Monk]

203. Nice post. Yes, the hypocrisy is definitely tangible.

[frustrated_lefty]

195. One of your better pieces, WRP.

Thanks for the writing of it.

[BobTheSubgenius]

200. Thank you, Helen Thomas...

...and thank you, WRP.

[calimary]

205. I come to kick this column, not to ignore it.

Another good one, Will! She was the only voice speaking truth to power during the dreadful bush/cheney years.

:thumbsup:

[opihimoimoi]

206. We Will Honor her...she is an ICON

[Scurrilous]

217. Kick

:kick: