cynatnite
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:06 PM
Original message |
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Edited on Wed Jan-31-07 07:39 PM by cynatnite
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MonkeyFunk
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:08 PM
Response to Original message |
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when the compliment appears to point out an exception.
"Wow, you sure work hard for a Puerto Rican!" Doesn't sound like a compliment, does it?
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Lost-in-FL
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:11 PM
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Mira Coño! Don't be talking bad about Puerto Ricans!! ;)
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danalytical
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:12 PM
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He didn't say anything even CLOSE to that. He didn't say "Hey you're clean for a black man". He said it as in "clean, fresh, new blood". It's obvious in context.
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piedmont
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
10. He said Obama was the *first* nationally prominent black man to have those qualities |
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That's not good (and not true).
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blonndee
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:17 PM
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13. Wrong, he said "...the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean |
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nd a nice-looking guy," Biden said. "I mean, that's a storybook, man." http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/31/biden.obama/index.html?section=cnn_latestPerhaps there IS a larger context that might help explain what he may have meant, but I think (as noted above) it's important to find out to what question these remarks were responding.
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MonkeyFunk
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:17 PM
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'I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy'...
I see those positive attributes being put in the context of Obama being Africa-American, and I think it's condescending, if not downright racist.
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danalytical
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
18. Where's the rest of that paragraph? |
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I would like to see how you would like it if I used one line of a page against you. No context = unfair.
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MonkeyFunk
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:24 PM
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22. the rest of the paragraph is |
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"... that's storybook, man."
Feel better now?
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danalytical
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:52 PM
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I would like too see the exchange and whether Biden said anything leading into that sentence. I'm no fan of Joe Biden, but I'm weary of the media picking quotes. And from Biden's side, it seems credible that he meant clean as in a fresh face. Vs clean as in not dirty.
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blonndee
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:25 PM
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(and I definitely see why the remarks could be read as racist and perhaps actually are), but I wonder if it's possible that he SAID it something like this:
"the first mainstream African-American" (referring to the different candidates--the media likes to think of Jackson and Sharpton, for example, as non-mainstream) and then the rest of the clause is meant to be a descriptor of Obama himself: "...who is articulate and bright..." etc.
Has anybody seen video? I can't seem to find anything that describes the conversation he was having at the time, or video/audio of the way it was said.
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Virginia Dare
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:10 PM
Response to Original message |
2. Why was the compliment paid in context with his race? |
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that's where Biden went wrong, LEAVE HIS RACE OUT OF IT!!!.
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blonndee
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:13 PM
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6. Just what I was about to ask. |
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Unless the question was phrased in a particular way, I can't imagine why he'd feel need to mention race, if he really DIDN'T mean to imply Obama is an exception.
Does anyone know what the context was? Was it, for example, a question about the fairly diverse group of contenders for 2008?
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cynatnite
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:14 PM
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I do think this was a stupid gaffe on Biden's part. Open mouth. Insert foot. It could cost him and he may be forced to pull out.
I was referring to some of what was being said here at DU and since Obama is moving on I will, too. Sorry I didn't clarify better.
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danalytical
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:15 PM
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It's like reverse racism, AVOIDING race when the issue of race is noteworthy is just like pointing something out ONLY because of it.
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danalytical
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:11 PM
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I think it's over reaction and misplaced anger. Is it hard to understand that Obama is currently the only black senator, and that fact is notable. The guy compliments a fellow senator and since he mentions a noteworthy topic, suddenly those compliments are supposed to be racist?
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Karenina
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:13 PM
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7. It all depends on what YOU consider as a "compliment" |
cynatnite
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
12. Nice things you say about someone... |
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such as..well, Obama's a nice guy, smart, and he's got a drop dead gorgeous smile. It makes me smile when I see it.
I get what you're saying :)
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danalytical
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:17 PM
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be called a fresh, clean, new face that happened to overcome adversity a compliment. Such as "he came froma poor background, and look where he is today. He overcame the fact that ONLY 5 black senators have EVER graced the United States Senate, and now he's a front runner for POTUS. It's noteworthy. Why pretend it isn't?
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shadowknows69
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:16 PM
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11. If you tie it to his race |
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As in, "he's remarkably articulate, for a black man" which is kind of how Biden's statement was taken I'm sure.
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sniffa
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:17 PM
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:wtf:
if you don't see it, you never wiLL.
though that was an articuLate post for a white person.
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cynatnite
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:19 PM
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goodhue
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:23 PM
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19. pretty fly for a white guy |
Miss Chybil
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:23 PM
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20. Not too long ago on DU there was a thread tin which the OP said something |
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to the effect of "I trust Sharpton more than I trust Obama." Why would one compare the two? Think about it. I'm sure the OP thought he/she was being very open-minded and non-racist while at the very time making racist judgements. There is no reason to compare Obama and Sharpton. They are two very different people.
Most of us are not as color blind as we like to think we are. I'm a woman who is white, married to a man who is black. (By the way, he's quite clean, articulate and very handsome. So, Obama's not the only one!) I'm not color blind. You think I would be. I am more than most, but being the animal I am with the wiring I was constructed with, I am a tribal being and I know it. That I know it, that my husband knows he is a tribal animal, as well, brings a certain amount of self-awareness that allows us to "rise above" our inborn urge to stereotype the world and face each other as human beings. We respect each other's differences and we enjoy them together.
Obviously, Biden did not intend to slur Obama, but he did show his ignorance with his statement. Hopefully, he will learn Obama is a man, not a black man.
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marmar
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:24 PM
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21. There's nothing wrong with a compliment, but when it's a "credit to your race" compliment... |
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which is how Biden's was interpreted, correctly or incorrectly, then hell yes, it's offensive. As to Obama being OK with it, what did you expect him to say? "I'm offended by that racist comment?", so then he could be tagged as a hypersensitive militant? And actually, in his statement on the matter, he pointed out that Biden was "misspoken" about him being the first articulate African American candidate.
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cynatnite
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:25 PM
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24. I am really sorry I posted this n/t |
Zenlitened
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:36 PM
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25. I kind of compare to a woman in the workplace, being complimented on her appearance. |
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Sure, often a compliment is just a complement, small talk is just small talk. But the alarm bells want to go off anyway, because women have had to overcome a LOT of patronizing behavior in the workplace in the past.
It's tricky. Is the person paying the compliment being sexist, consciously or unconsciously? Or is the woman who receives the compliment just being a "Feminazi" if a she can't help but wonder if there's something more to it?
:shrug:
It's a mine-field out there, and Sen. Biden seems to have stepped on a bomb with this statement, unfortunately. I don't think he's a foaming-at-the-mouth racist. But I do understand how a racist sub-text to his choice of words might pop right out at some readers, while others didn't give it a second glance.
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and-justice-for-all
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:38 PM
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compliment whom ever you like.
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piedmont
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:54 PM
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28. Kinda cheesy deleting the post after nearly 30 replies nt |
pinto
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Wed Jan-31-07 07:54 PM
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29. Locking at the poster's request. |
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Especially in light of the fact that the original poster chose to self delete her post, we agree.
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