"Right now in most of Dixie it is culturally unacceptable to be a Democrat"

[wikileaksfan]

"Right now in most of Dixie it is culturally unacceptable to be a Democrat. It's a damn shame, but that's the way it is," said Dave "Mudcat" Saunders, a campaign strategist for conservative Democrats such as Jim Webb of Virginia, one of the few remaining Southern Democratic senators.

<http://www.shelbystar.com/articles/southern-51215-species-washington.html>

What is the answer to this?

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[Ricochet21]

9. exactly nt

[DrToast]

12. Good luck trying to secure THAT border!*

*

[DenverDad]

18. I was thinking that yesterday.

Maybe we should be "broken-up" like the former Soviet Union. Find out which "nation" moves forward the best.:shrug:

[ladjf]

29. Secession is an unworkable and destructive idea. It may sound "cute"

when one hears it because from the outside one could say, "they deserve it".

In the first place, the population demographics in the South does not consist of a homogeneous group
of White racists,all in the stereotypical mode that outsides might imagine. The average Southern state is divided about 50-50 in their racial and cultural views. How could that type of mix be allowed to secede? What would the other 50 to 65% do, move to a state that didn't secede. That would be partitioning and I don't think anyone would suggest that.

(My guess is that the poster was joking when they offered the suggestion.)

[villager]

31. actually, once the empire falls apart, we'll be breaking up into a half-dozen or so

...separate countries, in the manner of fallen Empires -- later this century.

I'd be very surprised if that didn't happen...

[ladjf]

58. My vision of the future for America is that the mass of wealth already

in the hands of the top 1% will increase in size exponentially causing America to degenerate into two
basic classes;(1) the super rich and (2) everyone else. The everyone else group will first be converted into total slaves as they financial resources dwindle and then abject poverty. People will be dying on the streets from disease and starvation. There will be very few elderly.

Such a terrible scenario doesn't have to happen. But, in order to stop it, at least about 20% of the Americans who are now walking around in a propaganda induced trance will have to snap out of it and join the 45 or 50% of Americans who already know what is going on but don't have enough clout to do anything about it. If we can get the 60% of Americans who aren't entranced to join their resources, this rushing slide toward 1% having everything could be headed off.

I don't expect such a neat turn about here in the U.S. I think the same drama will be played out somewhere else and we will see that it worked and do the same thing here.

Carl Marx tried to solve this problem with Communism. But that system was so flawed with aspects that didn't mirror the individual's traits, desires and motivations. Straight Socialism is also too flawed. We'd best not try to coin any terms that describe the recovery process, that is the process that stops the rich from stealing everything in sight.

Don't listen to those who mock you for talking about class warfare. If there ever was an appropriate time for to discuss the financial inequities all over the world it is now, now before it is too late to do anything.

The people that are now running our government either directly or indirectly are THIEVES, plan and simple and should be identified as such. Too many non-rich have the mistaken idea that the rich are rich because they deserve it. That attitude shows the power of propaganda.

[villager]

63. I don't disagree, but I think other tensions -- like the depletion of resources,

the shifting of weather, etc., will change the calculus, even for the top 1%. There will be unprecedented "jams" they won't be able to buy their way out of.

doesn't mean the shaking up won't get pretty messy, along the way...

[ladjf]

66. You are exactly right. I was trying to keep my post as brief as

possible. The rich would do well to study the history of the Easter Islanders who are now extinct for reasons similar to ours.

So far, we couldn't have been stupider about natural recourses. We have allowed the immediate bottom line to take precedence over all business decisions. We have been warned repeatedly by smart Earth Scientists.

Perhaps some of us on DU should pool our ideas into a usable manual for recovery, a manual that would
cover all of the relevant circumstances.

(By the way, your writing is outstanding. I particularly like the first sentence, "... will change the calculus". If I possessed your writing skills, I'd get started on the recovery manual today.)

[mwb970]

98. Agreed.

The country as a whole is in the process of becoming ungovernable right now, thanks to our far-right republicans' refusal to participate in our government, our political discourse, or our media. (Fox News is not "our" media.) I don't see how a unified nation can accommodate the misinformed, angrily right-wing a-holes whose tiresome, anti-American rants we must listen to every day.

I wish there was somewhere for these people to go where they would stop bothering us, but I guess that can't happen. They're apparently here forever, damn it.

[RobinA]

102. Agree With The

"not a homogeneous group" idea. By the same token, living in PA as I do, I know that the north is not exactly a homogeneous group of open-minded freethinkers. I propose a giant diaspora, going in both directions, of people seeking to live with like-minded people. Give it, say, 10 years. After that we separate amicably. The constitution and all existing laws and caselaw apply to both countries initially and are open for amendment and change per current law.

[Dappleganger]

34. Why don't you just strangle us?

The south is full of democrats, many of us are liberal and can't stand what is happening. The broad-based memes are not appreciated.

[Jawja]

96. Agreed.

Not all of us are dumbasses. We are outnumbered.

[NotThisTime]

43. +10000

[SmileyRose]

78. I am a Georgian and I don't deserve to "collapse"

so kiss off.

[Crunchy Frog]

85. Don't worry. We'll accept refugees.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

90. We Can't Bring Our Weather

Dateline, Orlando, Florida 12/16/10

Attire- Gym Shorts, T Shirt, Flip Flops

[RobinA]

103. Price Ya Pay

You have to decide what you can give up and what you can't.

[SoCalDem]

104. Wearing a coat among nice people is not all that bad..We did it for many years

We only live here now because my husband's job brought us here. The lack of cold weather in the south is largely responsible for the rust belt blight:(

Poor southern states willing to give grandiose concessions to manufacturing from up north is what started the exodus of jobs.. Of course once there, they just kept on looking for cheaper & cheaper & now they prefer India & China..

[cordelia]

94. +1

[sadbear]

2. Let'em have their states' rights

And then watch them descend into hell.

[BrklynLiberal]

3. Another victory for the repuke messaging machine and their success at framing the debate

The Dems appear to be sitting around with their thumbs up their butts while the repukes are winning everything.

[nc4bo]

4. The Teabagging is going strong in my county. Not sure about anywhere else.nt

[w8liftinglady]

83. well-My partner lives in Henderson County,Tx-avg income 30K...

85% repub...CHRISTIAN

I live in Ellis County...we're rich-$45 K....89% Repub


Someone has to speak out for those who have no voice...I guess it's us.

And did I mention that over 8 million Texans have no insurance now?...y'all come down,hear?

[Crunchy Frog]

86. But I heard on NPR a few days ago that the Texas economy is booming.

[Name removed]

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[awoke_in_2003]

70. Thanks, appreciate that. nt

[cordelia]

77. Sad, isn't it

to see the hate-filled bigotry against people just because they live in a particular region?

[awoke_in_2003]

81. yeah, but not unexpected. nt

[gateley]

89. And you jump right in assuming I was indicating everyone who lives in a region?

I meant fuck the INDIVIDUALS. I don't care if they were from Seattle, if they feel it's "unacceptable" - fuck 'em.

But hey, I guess you know better than I what I meant, right?

See ya.

[gateley]

88. How do you presume to know that's what I was implying? That wasn't what I meant

at all. I meant fuck those INDIVIDUALS who felt it was unacceptable to be a Democrat.

If you knew me, you'd know that you are way fucking off base and so wrong in your assessment of my "hate-filled bigotry".

See ya.

[Name removed]

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[PassingFair]

106. Puhlease. No one here has a "hatred of Southerners"

We just hate how MOST of them VOTE for assholes.

[QC]

107. Few people bother to make that distinction. n/t

[Roy Rolling]

6. Or...

Progressives can help those of us that live "in Dixie" as the perjorative term says, to have sensible voices heard. Painting everyone with a wide brush and writing off legions of those who think differently in the midst of this ignorance is not the sort of activism that accomplishes anything except more stereotypes. Fighting ignorance with more ignorance is a lose-lose proposition.

[get the red out]

26. +1

Thank you.

[Dappleganger]

35. Thank you, but then again it's easier to offer simplistic jokes

than real solutions to the problems for those of us who LIVE here.

[Jamastiene]

91. Thank you.

I live in a rural area in NC that is a Democratic stronghold. We know how to make the Republicans here miserable...and we do on a regular basis.

If only the national Democratic Party would lend a tiny little hand, we could connect with the other rural Democratic strongholds to our southeast and form a couple districts that would be a force to be reckoned with. NC would stay blue, if only the national party did not look at us like we are all secessionists.

[JoePhilly]

7. Not really.

NC was blue for Obama, and kicked Liddy Dole to the curb in 2008 for a Dem.

NC is still a generally red state, but every year, it gets better. The old racists are dying out. Immigrants from Mexico are coming here. As are well educated folks from the North. Wake County, Chapel Hill, Charlotte.

Some parts of Dixie will never change. But many areas of blue are popping up here in NC, and in some other Dixie states.

[dsc]

14. did you pay attention to the last election

we lost the state house and state senate and marshall lost by double digits to a man who had a 38% approval rating after 5 years in the Senate. I hope that is a blip but I don't count on it.

[JoePhilly]

25. My view ... blip. But a blip to watch.

The GOP was able to rally the whack jobs in a mid-term, sadly. And you have to give them credit ... they know how to manipulate and energize their base.

Marshall seemed to get no help. And had no presence. I follow politics and I can honestly say that if I passed her on the street I would not recognize her. Kagen's campaign against Dole was much more visible, and she did get an "Obama bump", no question.

I think lots of Dems in NC (moderate dems) didn't vote in the 2010 mid-term. And the Tea Party nuts did.

When we get to the Presidential year, we'll do better again. Can we stay blue? I hope so, and I will work, and donate money to help make it so.

I've lived in NC since 91, and at that time, I honestly NEVER expected to see a Dem President win NC. And I was right ... Clinton didn't win NC in 92 or 96. Gore 2000, and Kerry 20004, also lost NC. Depressing.

And so ... Obama winning NC in 2008 is amazing to me ... there is serious racism in this state. But Obama overcame it. And he could again.

NC is is far from blue, its probably still mostly red, but its got a purple glow.

[olegramps]

100. Wasn't Obama win mostly attributable to the Independents and Youth vote?

From what I have read a growing number of Independents have deserted Obama along with the Youth Vote. The dynamics that won Obama the presidency and pulled along a number of Democrats has been allowed to evaporate. There are factors that no administration can control, however, there is little doubt that many are disappointed in this administration. This is not limited to just Independents, but also to the more progressive members of the Democratic Party.

Neither Party, the Democrats or Republicans, can win any election without the support of the Independent voters. They increasingly becoming the major factor, especially in national elections. I find it very disappointing that Obama took over the presidency with such a groundswell of support and see it virtually vanish within two short years. Hopefully, he will regain momentum, but it appears that it will be difficult since he has allowed the his Republican enemies to transfer the blame of the nations problems from Bush and the Republicans who are primarily responsible for this mess to himself.

[AlinPA]

32. NC is also very modern in the places I've visited. It has a lot going for it. ny

[DBoon]

45. immigration and high tech may bring change

the old feudal system based on race needs to be wiped out for good, as it should have been after the Civil War

[JoePhilly]

51. agree ...

NC is poised to be a LONG TERM research hub for both high tech, and medical advances.

The University system here is great.

And ... Charlotte is a growing financial hub. which for some is evil, but ... well regulated financial business is a good thing.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

87. For the first time in over 100 years, NC Republicans took control...

of both chambers of the General Assembly:

http://www.gastongazette.com/articles/house-52246-senate-democrats.html

NC did not kick Richard Burr to the curb, unfortunately. Bob Etheridge lost his seat. One good thing, though, the Teabagger lunatic Pantano lost to McIntyre (who is no prize).

As we're seeing with the destruction of the school diversity policy in Wake County, not all "well educated folks from the North" are Democrats. I brought my raging liberal ways with me, but there are a lot of wealthy Republican country clubbers retiring to this state.

Yes, there are pockets of blue, but during the 2010 mid-terms, it did not get better. Obama won NARROWLY in 2008; he's got his work cut out for him in 2012, especially if there isn't substantial improvement on the unemployment front. Republicans, at least in Wake County, are incredibly well organized.

[stuntcat]

105. NC

Best place on the entire planet, I will always have hope for NC!

[Name removed]

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[reformist2]

10. What a racist statement.

Last time I checked, over 25% of "Dixie" is African-American. How can he overlook the fact that most African-Americans vote Dem?!

[Dappleganger]

36. Good catch...

I'm tired of people thinking there are no dems down here!!

[Erose999]

52. I know a few African Americans who vote for the repugs. And at least here the GOOP state legislature

is redrawing the districts. Athens, where I live, is a pretty Black area when you exclude the UGA students (most of whom either vote in their hometowns or don't vote at all). Athens will soon be carved into about 3 or 4 seperate districts for general assembly, each slice of Athens will be added to a larger, more rural and conservative district.

And one of our Dems from our 2 current gen. assembly districts just switched parties.

We are well on our way to having one-party-gov't here in GA.

And until progressives succeed in coming up with an effective means of countering Faux News and hate radio, the forces of evil are winning.

[alphafemale]

71. I was also thinking "amongst white guys maybe"

There are also some blue islands in the south.

Raleigh/Durham - Austin - Savannah for a few.

[treestar]

11. "most of Dixie" is not very descriptive

In the larger cities and college towns it would seem likely it is acceptable.

[Arctic Dave]

13. It is like that in my state.

The answer is for the national democrats to start being democrats and not a circle jerk of idiots. Most people see democrats as not having any principles they will not sell out. Who really wants to be associated with that?

[eShirl]

99. "not having any principles they will not sell out" That's a perfect description of Republicans.

[Name removed]

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[piedmont]

16. Well, I'm here in Mississippi keepin' the faith and nobody's giving me grief about it.

Don't let them convince you to give up on the south.

[ladjf]

23. The South has thousands of very enlightened and gracious people.

They just don't happen to be in the majority at the present time.

[Dappleganger]

37. Well said.

[Name removed]

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[reformist2]

19. The dirty secret about voting patterns in Dixie...

Is that both whites and blacks vote over 90% along party lines. When you have that level of party loyalty, it doesn't exactly leave much room for legitimate debate.

[ladjf]

20. The kind of racist thinking that caused the Civil War is still present

in the South. But, there are major differences now.

1. Caucasians are only about 50% or less of the population.

2. By and large, young white Southerners have dropped most of the racial prejudice.

3. Many people have moved into the South that don't share the pre-Civil War attitudes.


At this point, because the racists have migrated to the Republican Party as a result of the carefully constructed "Southern Strategy" put together by the Republicans,they have managed to gain
political ascendancy. However, time isn't on their side.

The racists gained the upper hand because the Rich establishment of the Country needed that in order to gain control. They are simply the stooges of the greedy Rich establishment, just as they were when they embraced secession. It's sad to see that despite the horrors of the Civil War and other
problems, many Southern Whites seemed to have learned nothing from the catastrophe.

(I'm 75 and have lived in the South all of my life, in case it matters.)

[piedmont]

30. Correction: Every state in the South is at or above 60% caucasian

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ThematicMapFramesetServlet?_bm=y&-geo_id=01000US&-tm_name=ACS_2009_5YR_G00_M00627&-ds_name=ACS_2009_5YR_G00_&-_MapEvent=displayBy&-_dBy=040#?407,292">US Census


And an awful great many of the people who moved here from elsewhere are just as right-wing as natural-born Southerners.

[wikileaksfan]

44. Many transplants did move here to be with other reichtwingers

I just like the weather, but global climate change might fix that.

[ceile]

21. Like with many states, it depends on where you are.

In TX, the larger cities and the Valley vote largely democratic. I can't remember when the last republican was elected to city office in Austin.

[The Backlash Cometh]

22. It's very easy. Expose the culture of corruption that exists in these states.

If they want to dominate, then everything they do wrong must certainly be their fault.

[33Greeper]

24. Progressive in Alabama

Please don't throw me under the bus.

[RT Atlanta]

27. A LOT OF EDUCATION

is how you work on this mindset and it will take a long time.

The 'pukes have done a masterful job of convincing the "common folks" in many of the rural areas that they too will be "rich" one day, and as such, the "gubmint" should keep its hands off of their hard-earned dollars (ergo, keep taxes low). They have further expanded on this point by making the poor/destitute catch-all boogie men for all of their problems... so the social welfare programs should be cut. From there, the 'pukes have learned a great form of code speak (as in "family values" and that kind of crap) to erode a once proud public education system (combined with defunding the schools).

I do see one glimmer of hope using my own state (GA) as an example:

The 'pukes control all forms of the state government now... and a carefully thought-out Democratic campaign will have success in attacking the 'pukes failures as they are certainly going to complete running GA into a ditch.

Only this week, Gov-elect Nathan "Mr. Ethically-challenged" Deal is talking about cutting back education funding, but meanwhile cutting corporate tax rates in the state to make it more "business friendly." Dude... if we dont have an educated work force, why would businesses want to relocate here, or bring their families into our state if the public schools suck?

[FiveGoodMen]

28. This is my answer to "don't bash the south" threads.

[wikileaksfan]

42. What made me post this was a US complaint about Russia

Yes, the US government was complaining about Siberia being virtually a one party state it made me think about the American south.
It's sickening that when suburban or rural southerners find out you vote Democratic, they think that you're either immoral, gay, lazy, married to a minority or mentally ill. I'm not kidding or exaggerating.

<http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/11/siberia-elections-russia-party_n_795388.html>

[cordelia]

95. Wrong

[Fire Walk With Me]

33. Um, they're claiming some sort of superior "culture" to democrats and democracy?

I'm all ears.

[JHB]

38. Sunday Schools for Liberalism

Over kitchen tables and inmeeting halls. Every week.

[MisterP]

39. the Populists made inroads in the South--but collapsed when they submitted to bad local policies

(i.e., racism).
More here
I might add that the DLC and "2nd Amendment" Democrats are also encouraging submission to bad policies in the name of winning.

[old mark]

40. K&R- I believe the statement is correct, and unfortunately, the South is growing in population

and wealth while the North is losing both...Greater population equals more representation in Congress and more power in the federal government...eventually, us Yankees might have to seceed from THEM when they control the USA.


mark

[RadiationTherapy]

41. Then it will become "cool" to be a dem among young people there

just like it is "cool" to be conservative if you are part of a culture that is largely liberal. By "cool" I mean counter-cultural, of course.

[Name removed]

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[mnhtnbb]

49. Raleigh succumbed to the stupid with the new Wake County B of E members.

[southernyankeebelle]

47. Am a proud liberal living in Tn and don't give a damn how others vote.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[wikileaksfan]

59. Mudcat has tried hard to advance Dem cause in the South

Sadly, John Edwards was a bitter disappointment and hurt our cause.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Saunders_(political_strategist)>

[mdmc]

50. What is the answer to this?

Take over the GOP..

[Name removed]

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[valerief]

55. A competing 24 hr channel to Fox "news". nt

[rucky]

56. Who the fuck still calls it Dixie?

A man named Mudcat does.

[Name removed]

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[Ricochet21]

76. That's the entire story

Kripes

[Vinca]

57. The older I get the more the cold weather bothers me, but

I can't think of anywhere down south where I would fit in and feel comfortable.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

62. Southern California? LA, Santa Clara, Santa Barbara, Long Beach?

[Vinca]

97. Couldn't afford it, but it's a beautiful area.

[mstinamotorcity]

60. Good thing that I

am a Member of the Democratic Party.

[AlabamaLibrul]

61. I guess I'm culturally unacceptable then. Oh well, what really bothers me is 100 posts of

fuck this, fuck that, fuck off, secede, etc.

[SixString]

65. Not to mention the broadbrush insults of southerners.

I guess this is acceptable now at DU.

[QC]

69. That sort of thing used to get deleted toot sweet,

along with the "Let 'em all secede" posts.

[Liquorice]

67. I know what you mean about the insults. It makes me want to say

fuck off right back at them. Some people have a deep hatred for the South and people who live here, and so when they see anything negative about the South they jump on it like jackals.

[AlabamaLibrul]

68. I came into this thread expecting a serious discussion, too. Here's my take:

Populism. We've seen Tea Party folks start to parrot "No more bailouts" and this sort of thing. In my opinion, they don't say this stuff because they genuinely believe it and deeply understand it and have a great economic reason, but because it's in-your-face evidence that Washington works for the corporation and its wealthiest benefactors.

People in the South are generally rich or poor. There's not a huge middle class (not that there's one anywhere in America anymore). The poor outnumber the rich. You can convince them to take your side if you are truly willing to fight for people, not for corporations.

The last governor of Alabama, Don Siegelman, who is in jail right now thanks to Karl Rove, ran on a platform of a state lottery to provide for FREE in-state tuition to students who did well in high school.

People like it when a politician is working for them - the Democrats just have to do it better.

[Liquorice]

73. I agree. People here tend to be suspicious of the government and how

the government uses our tax money, but they will definitely support a populist democrat who they believe has their best interests at heart. Republicans are good liars, though, and they're good at pushing the low tax, small government idea to these people--that's one of the main reasons why republicans have so much support here. But there are plenty of other areas of the country that are heavily republican for similar reasons and they are not hated and disparaged the way the South is here on the DU.

By the way, in Georgia we got the lottery which funds our HOPE college scholarships from a democratic governor, and that governor was...crazy old Zell Miller! LOL

[QC]

74. There are some subjects that one cannot discuss intelligently around here

(quite a few, actually) and you have discovered one of them.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

64. sad but true

[taterguy]

75. It wasn't culturally unacceptable in Dixie to be a Democrat until they Wellstoned Ronnie Van Zandt

Which of course is why they did it.

[Rex]

79. Answer? Well that is a flat out lie so why reply to bullshit?

Sounds like he is crying from his lack of ability.

[piedmont]

82. +1 nt

[WinkyDink]

80. It's a "masculinity" thing.

[Name removed]

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[cordelia]

92. Another bigotted broadbrush condemnation

of an entire region.

[panzerfaust]

93. Dixie will go away when the "myth" of global warming melts the ice-caps

[n2doc]

108. Hey haters- what about the midwest and west?

Because looking at the electoral map there aren't too many "blue" zones outside of the the coasts nowadays. Ask a DU'er in Oklahoma how easy it is to be a lefty. Get rid of Alaska too. See what you have left, it is the hollow shell of a country.

We need to work together to build the blue everywhere. Dean started too, did pretty damn well for his efforts, and then back to this abandonment crap.