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Celerity

(43,383 posts)

26. It isn't '2 different ways' in terms of what I am discussing, as some on both sides have and are using it to the extent

Reply to edhopper (Reply #22)

Thu Mar 28, 2024, 11:15 AM

Mar 28

wherein they mean the destruction and/or removal of the opposing side from both the land and from the wielding of any meaningful political power.

Some elements of both sides DO mean just that. All of those elements on both sides engaged in those types of epistemological framings and power projections are wrong for doing so.

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I firmly believe the use of the word "genocide" [View all] edhopper Mar 28 OP

Deliberately pushing millions of Palestinians into one area then carpet bombing that area is genocide. lark Mar 28 #1

Netanyahu's plan is to CARPET BOMB Rafah? maxsolomon Mar 28 #49

Now, be fair. Surely some carpet has been destroyed by the bombs. Captain Stern Mar 28 #141

". But I see no evidence that they wish to kill the population of Gaza" Phoenix61 Mar 28 #2

Was the fire bombing of Tokyo or Dresden edhopper Mar 28 #9

Did the country of Japan declare war on another country? Phoenix61 Mar 28 #50

Did Hamas declare war on Israel? thucythucy Mar 28 #64

Hamas, the elected government of Gaza, launched an attack on the territory of Israel.... Happy Hoosier Mar 28 #70

There hasn't been an election since 2006. Phoenix61 Mar 28 #100

Nope. Not the point. Happy Hoosier Mar 28 #158

It is the point. Phoenix61 Mar 28 #167

In your scenario, who pulled the trigger on the last Palestinian? cayugafalls Mar 28 #108

Not sure what you're getting at. NT Happy Hoosier Mar 28 #159

It would fit the definition today. Voltaire2 Mar 28 #62

They were 100% war crimes, and what is happening in Gaza is ethnic cleansing slipping into genocide obamanut2012 Mar 28 #75

What 1 and 2 said. Faux pas Mar 28 #3

Genocide is not just the violent murder of a specific group of people Fiendish Thingy Mar 28 #4

That's utterly useless. Happy Hoosier Mar 28 #71

Yeah, what's the use of having a war if you have to follow rules? Nt Fiendish Thingy Mar 28 #99

... Happy Hoosier Mar 28 #160

Two Wrongs don't make a Right Fiendish Thingy Mar 28 #163

The term is being leveraged into meaninglessness. Happy Hoosier Mar 28 #5

Yes, this edhopper Mar 28 #10

Yes, sadly Harmony Starshine Mar 28 #73

Regardless of what party is governing Israel, BunkieBandit Mar 28 #151

Maybe you ought to listen to what Netanyahu and his cabinet are saying and doing . Autumn Mar 28 #6

Hamas turned Gaza into a war zone Mysterian Mar 28 #7

"From the River to the Sea" is a paraphrase of the 1977 Likud manifesto muriel_volestrangler Mar 28 #8

And when Hamas uses it edhopper Mar 28 #12

"From the River to the Sea" Celerity Mar 28 #11

When Hamas, their supporters edhopper Mar 28 #13

Non responsive. Celerity Mar 28 #16

To the point edhopper Mar 28 #17

No, it is simply not answering the legimate questions I asked. There is nothing 'to the point' about non-responsiveness. Celerity Mar 28 #21

Okay edhopper Mar 28 #22

It isn't '2 different ways' in terms of what I am discussing, as some on both sides have and are using it to the extent Celerity Mar 28 #26

We disagree edhopper Mar 28 #28

..and both sides have the one... thomski64 Mar 28 #110

Then what does it mean when Israel and its supporters say it? whathehell Mar 28 #104

You're implying things that aren't there. Mosby Mar 28 #85

No, no I am not, and you are ignoring Likud, (who ARE currently in power) both in their sloganeering and their actions. Celerity Mar 28 #127

Bibi is part of a coalition. Mosby Mar 28 #134

so many RW Israelis, including many in Likud absolutely look at it as a war on all of the Gazans and/or all Palestinians Celerity Mar 28 #139

The last post from twitter is lying. Mosby Mar 28 #147

No it is not lying, as that was the gist (notice it was not a quote) of what he was saying. Celerity Mar 28 #150

Some would rather quibble over the meaning of words than deal with the actual truth. Earth-shine Mar 28 #14

It's ideological desperation Sympthsical Mar 28 #15

Thank you edhopper Mar 28 #19

A righteous rant sarisataka Mar 28 #24

Exactly! Thank you. betsuni Mar 28 #107

The definition from the US Holocaust Museum Cuthbert Allgood Mar 28 #18

I think edhopper Mar 28 #20

Israel is doing all of the first three Cuthbert Allgood Mar 28 #23

I think you ignore a lot of important aspects, none of which occurred with your two US examples. BUT hlthe2b Mar 28 #25

What am I missing in this conflict edhopper Mar 28 #27

Barricading food aid and allowing starvation is not something the US did. Netanyahu, has. hlthe2b Mar 28 #33

The US certainly did interdict supplies to Japan sarisataka Mar 28 #35

We did not barricade/blockade them into starving. You can disagree or debate the atomic bomb hlthe2b Mar 28 #38

Just to be clear, I have never spoken in favor of Netanyahu sarisataka Mar 28 #46

... hlthe2b Mar 28 #52

The Allies during World War One did in fact impose a blockade on the Central Powers thucythucy Mar 28 #66

I have not used the term 'genocide' as you accuse hlthe2b Mar 28 #68

I apologize for my mistake. thucythucy Mar 28 #113

"We did not barricade/blockade them into starving." lol, it was literally called "Operation Starvation" EX500rider Mar 28 #129

History will not be kind to Netanyahu and his government PatSeg Mar 28 #37

Yup hlthe2b Mar 28 #39

Well stated obamanut2012 Mar 28 #78

Thank you PatSeg Mar 28 #89

Spot on!! cornball 24 Mar 28 #101

Denial--so many believe to be only a river in Egypt. hlthe2b Mar 28 #40

I could not agree with you more. It's also 100 percent antisemitism as a dog whistle jimfields33 Mar 28 #29

I don't see that at all PatSeg Mar 28 #41

I want talking DU. Just the protesters who support Hamas against Israel. jimfields33 Mar 28 #44

I see PatSeg Mar 28 #47

This is prime example. I'm sorry but I refuse to support this. jimfields33 Mar 28 #67

Likewise PatSeg Mar 28 #69

Agreed wholeheartedly. jimfields33 Mar 28 #94

Hopefully, a better sane world is possible PatSeg Mar 28 #97

Fuck their "genocide" Shit.. TY for the link. Cha Mar 28 #148

"I don't see any protestors who support Hamas" EX500rider Mar 28 #130

wrong obamanut2012 Mar 28 #79

You could not be more wrong. Sky Jewels Mar 28 #91

If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it's a duck. jrthin Mar 28 #30

Some people would really be happy to prove genocide ripcord Mar 28 #31

I am in no way saying that "Jews" are committing genocide. Cuthbert Allgood Mar 28 #60

Do you think the US firebombing of Tokyo where over 80k were killed and over 200k made homeless ripcord Mar 28 #65

yes, it was a war crime, but it was not yet one obamanut2012 Mar 28 #81

Did we say the things Bibi has about getting rid of Japan? Cuthbert Allgood Mar 28 #93

" Did we say the things Bibi has about getting rid of Japan" EX500rider Mar 28 #132

Sounds like genocide, then. Cuthbert Allgood Mar 28 #136

Actions not words define "genocide" EX500rider Mar 28 #137

Your "what-about-ism" is getting old. Cuthbert Allgood Mar 28 #138

Words have meanings sarisataka Mar 28 #32

nope...i do not wish to give israel an eternal get out of jail free card dembotoz Mar 28 #34

That is for murdering, raping, genocidal, theocratic extremist Arabs and Persian terrorists TheKentuckian Mar 28 #43

how many Palestinians must die? all of them???????????? dembotoz Mar 28 #45

You don't have to... Happy Hoosier Mar 28 #169

It looks more like ethnic cleansing to me. patphil Mar 28 #36

I wish that wasn't true PatSeg Mar 28 #42

ethnic cleansing is in fact an act of genocide. Voltaire2 Mar 28 #61

There is a difference between the two. patphil Mar 28 #74

Fair enough. Voltaire2 Mar 28 #88

If the Israeli's proceed with a military attack on the city of Rafah, I might want to reconsider my position. patphil Mar 28 #142

Genocide has existed on even much more horrific levels. GreenWave Mar 28 #48

I agree You know, I understand the criticism of the Israeli government. ismnotwasm Mar 28 #51

If it were claudette Mar 28 #54

Hamas is the elected government of Palestine ismnotwasm Mar 28 #63

Babies and claudette Mar 28 #117

They've never voted in any country involved in a war. Ace Rothstein Mar 28 #120

Targeting claudette Mar 28 #123

Can you provide a source that Israel is deliberately targeting children? Ace Rothstein Mar 28 #125

It's been claudette Mar 28 #128

So you're being hyperbolic. Ace Rothstein Mar 28 #131

Hospitals should not be used as command posts & bases by Hamas.. EX500rider Mar 28 #135

I understand this, of course. ismnotwasm Mar 28 #152

I don't know claudette Mar 28 #153

Innocent? Darwins_Retriever Mar 28 #84

All of them want that? Cuthbert Allgood Mar 28 #109

Yes claudette Mar 28 #116

But, 30,000 INNOCENT Palestinians are not Hamas. sarisataka Mar 28 #90

"But, 30,000 INNOCENT Palestinians are not Hamas." EX500rider Mar 28 #133

So, then claudette Mar 28 #53

Check out a meeting about remembering the Holocaust sarisataka Mar 28 #59

There is a whole world of things between edhopper Mar 28 #77

Your opinion claudette Mar 28 #121

It's all opinion edhopper Mar 28 #122

Not if it's claudette Mar 28 #124

Which is decided by edhopper Mar 28 #126

RE: "But I see no evidence that they wish to kill the population of Gaza" IrishAfricanAmerican Mar 28 #55

FYI there was no legal definition of genocide as a war crime during WWII. Voltaire2 Mar 28 #56

In WW2 the U.S. firebombed Tokyo ripcord Mar 28 #57

Which were war crimes then as are the current war crimes in Gaza. Ping Tung Mar 28 #95

Do we really want to prosecute FDR post mortem? BunkieBandit Mar 28 #156

If some other country was doing it to some other walled off minority inside their borders... Iggo Mar 28 #58

Really? Would we?? CincyDem Mar 28 #96

Your analogy is flawed. Earth-shine Mar 28 #155

Not the analogy I made. CincyDem Mar 28 #161

Our gov't has condemned China and the Saudis for human rights violations and more, many times in the past. Earth-shine Mar 28 #165

No we wouldn't sarisataka Mar 28 #103

Agree with the premise of this thread Johnny2X2X Mar 28 #72

The WWII Jewish Holocaust is not the only terrible event that is a genocide. There were many before then and many after obamanut2012 Mar 28 #76

And I listed two others edhopper Mar 28 #80

Do you find it interesting that of all the ongoing genocides sarisataka Mar 28 #87

Absolutely Harmony Starshine Mar 28 #82

Which is the purpose of edhopper Mar 28 #83

The purpose is to make the term meaningless or TheKentuckian Mar 28 #92

The U.S. has to stop sending money to Israel used to purchase munitions for its massive killing of innocent people, Squaredeal Mar 28 #86

My previous thread edhopper Mar 28 #98

Do you know Netanyahu has used the term "river to sea" also as to his aim in the region. brush Mar 28 #102

We should focus on the actions and not on the semantics Redleg Mar 28 #106

How about focusing on Netanyahu using the term "from the river to the sea" also? brush Mar 28 #111

Possibly but not necessarily Redleg Mar 28 #105

No one is saying not to criticize Israel edhopper Mar 28 #114

Bookmarked (circular, inescapable, belief systems) Duncan Grant Mar 28 #112

Another redefinition for propaganda in the Pseudo Radicals Dictionary. betsuni Mar 28 #115

Like "apartheid", "anti-Semitism" and so many others in order to fit their "needs". Behind the Aegis Mar 28 #118

Respectfully disagree. H2O Man Mar 28 #119

What's missing is intent EX500rider Mar 28 #140

Section 101 (starting at p. 59) of South Africa ICJ case extensively addresses intent (linked). David__77 Mar 28 #144

If Hamas surrenders and the IDF stops then genocide is not the intent EX500rider Mar 28 #146

The word "intent" appears 17 times in South Africa's 84 page document, lapucelle Mar 28 #149

Many of the folks pontificating on *social media* have no understanding of the actual elements of the crime of genocide. lapucelle Mar 28 #145

Bad analogy... MythosMaster Mar 28 #143

Your "stance" on this is purely political, not factual. Jirel Mar 28 #154

Your genocide is a fiction at best and an insidious lie at worst. TheKentuckian Mar 28 #168

Whataboutism TheCynic56 Mar 28 #157

Those who bring up the Holocaust SocialDemocrat61 Mar 28 #162

I agree with your OP.. Mahalo! Cha Mar 28 #164

Agree brettdale Mar 28 #166

3 things regarding the rightwing Israeli coalition government: Martin Eden Mar 29 #170

I agree that watering down the word genocide is bad Bucky Mar 29 #171

I no longer defend Israel in Gaza edhopper Mar 29 #172