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NNadir

(36,468 posts)
84. Like I say, I always have to take crap for my position. Heroin is an excellent treatment for pain, but I abhor it too.
Sat Jun 21, 2025, 08:44 AM
Jun 21

I'm sorry you're in pain, and I don't know your position with physicians and medical care or access to medical care, but to be frank, I'm deeply suspicious of self medication. If it works for you, fine. I'm not your doctor, or anyone's doctor, I'm a chemist.

Nightshade contains digitalis and has been used since antiquity for heart disease. A side effect of its use as a botanical was death.

The overwhelming use of marijuana is not for treatment of pain; it's recreational. I believe, and have observed, that it results in intellectual impairment. (Heroin does as well.) It is certainly not as harmful as nightshade, and to my knowledge, no one can overdose on pot, but that said, many of the more than 500 biologically active compounds do have health effects.

I have stated that I am against laws for pot abuse (or use). This is very different than saying I support use. I don't.

I had a major bicycle accident when I was a young man. It was so severe that they ran an EEG to see if they should take my organs for transplants. I was unconscious in an ICU for three days and when I came to, connected to a vast array of wires and tubes, including several connected to my internal organs, I was in extreme pain from wounds and broken ribs. They gave me morphine drips. They killed the pain, but they had an awful side effect, which was that I wanted to listen to the Grateful Dead, even though I understood that they seldom played in tune. In that case, I accepted the intellectual impairment, because the pain would have been worse without it.

The fact that morphine effectively killed my pain, however, did not inspire me to think that people should be able to buy morphine over the counter in self medication scenarios. That said, if I had cancer or severe chronic pain, particularly that which involved a terminal disease, I would probably have no problem with becoming a morphine addict.

The article I cited in my previous post is here: Chandy, M., Jimenez-Tellez, N. & Wu, J.C. The relationship between cannabis and cardiovascular disease: clearing the haze. Nat Rev Cardiol 22, 467–481 (2025)

Excerpts from the full text:




...Robust evidence from basic science and clinical studies supports the association between cannabis use and cardiovascular diseases1,10,11,16,18. Before the legalization and decriminalization of cannabis, only small and retrospective studies suggested that cannabis is linked to myocardial infarction (MI)73. Cannabis has now been shown to be associated with adverse cardiovascular events, and heavier use is associated with a greater risk74. In a cross-sectional study, the adjusted odds ratios for coronary heart disease (CHD), MI and cerebrovascular accident were 1.16 (95% CI 0.98–1.38), 1.25 (95% CI 1.07–1.46) and 1.42 (95% CI 1.20–1.68), respectively, for daily cannabis users compared with non-users74. However, less frequent use of cannabis was also associated with an increased risk of CHD, MI and cerebrovascular accident74. In the YOUNG-MI registry, a retrospective cohort study of young adults (aged ≤50 years) with MI, cannabis users were more likely than non-users to have a premature MI18...

...Arrhythmias
...In a retrospective study from a Danish registry in 5,391 patients with chronic pain who used cannabis, a link was reported between cannabis use and new-onset arrhythmias (atrial fibrillation or flutter, conduction disorders, paroxysmal tachycardias and ventricular arrhythmias)85. Cannabis users had an absolute risk of new-onset arrhythmias of 0.8% (95% CI 0.6–1.1%), whereas non-users had an absolute risk of 0.4% (95% CI 0.3–0.5%)85. The annual risk ratio was 1.36 (95% CI 1.00–1.73)85. Cannabis use disorder, defined as an inability to stop using marijuana despite adverse health effects or social problems, is associated with increased occurrence of atrial fibrillation, hospital admissions for uncontrolled atrial fibrillation and thromboembolic events86,87. Moreover, cannabis use disorder and associated arrhythmias are more common in younger patients86. After cannabis exposure, heart rate transiently increases due to increased sympathetic tone and decreased parasympathetic tone10...

...Cardiomyopathy
Cannabis-induced cardiomyopathy has been described in case reports90. An observational study using the UK Biobank found that cannabis was associated with changes in cardiac structure and function91. Cardiac MRI analyses have revealed that cannabis use is associated with larger indexed left ventricular end-diastolic volume, left ventricular end-systolic volume and impaired global circumferential strain after adjustment for age, sex, BMI, systolic blood pressure, use of cholesterol-lowering medication, diabetes, smoking and alcohol consumption91. In addition, cannabis use has been linked to heart failure, with an underlying ischaemic mechanism92.

Preclinical data suggest that endocannabinoids can cause cardiac dysfunction via CB1 activation, whereas CB2-mediated signalling might mitigate adverse cardiac remodelling...


It seems, as is the case with morphine, and/or fentanyl, which also very effectively kills pain, there are side effects. (This is true with pharmaceutical compounds, but they are generally administered under medical care.)

I'm sorry you're in pain, and I wish you well. If pot makes you feel less pain, I believe you, but none of this makes me feel that I should start applauding the use of pot. The intellectual impairment aspects alone lead me to continue to abhor its use for most people, and yes, I continue to abhor its use in general.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

200 million people ? dweller Jun 18 #1
Did they take diet into consideration? MagickMuffin Jun 18 #2
I'm sure you were the first to suggest that a longitudinal study of heart health Prairie Gates Jun 18 #3
If this were true, I would've died in the 70s SheltieLover Jun 18 #26
Yep, likewise MagickMuffin Jun 18 #39
Repukes are so upset about weed...until they find a way to profit from it. SheltieLover Jun 19 #43
Do not confuse an increased likelihood with certainty. Happy Hoosier Jun 19 #41
Exactly. Avoid binary thinking vigilantly. . . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jun 20 #80
Forget diet... appmanga Jun 18 #37
I'm a user and in Faux pas Jun 20 #77
We have similar experiences MagickMuffin Jun 20 #78
Those of us who Faux pas Jun 21 #90
It's not the MJ, it's the Funyuns and Cheetos that does everyone in. (NSFW) TheBlackAdder Jun 21 #88
Another article brought to you by big pharma. leftyladyfrommo Jun 18 #4
But couldn't both be true ? JI7 Jun 18 #6
Please don't disregard results off-hang because... Happy Hoosier Jun 19 #42
I read them. I have smoked since I was 20. leftyladyfrommo Jun 19 #45
Which is why we made brownies. Dixiegrrrl Jun 21 #91
I know, Willie Nelson died so young. BlueTsunami2018 Jun 18 #5
George Burns lived to a ripe old age synni Jun 18 #16
George Burns loved smoking cigars and drinking whiskey. Emile Jun 21 #81
And given the anecdotal evidence that he lived a long time EdmondDantes_ Jun 21 #85
If cannabis was illegal, do you think that would stop people from using it? Emile Jun 21 #87
"We're all going to die" maxsolomon Jun 18 #7
Whoopee we're all going to die - country joe! Blues Heron Jun 18 #11
"You'll die from what we make you die from!" durablend Jun 18 #24
Was there a difference in smoking or edibles? dem4decades Jun 18 #8
Seems to be worse The Revolution Jun 18 #25
Yikes, that's not fun. dem4decades Jun 18 #36
Interesting. Ms. Toad Jun 20 #59
Edibles? Blues Heron Jun 18 #9
When I smoke, my heart rate rises more than when I exercise. Gore1FL Jun 18 #10
Consider vaping dry herb. No combustion, no extraction chems, no vape liquid carrier chems. . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jun 18 #14
I vouch for this Beausoleil Jun 18 #18
Extraction Does Not Leave Behind Solvents ProfessorGAC Jun 18 #20
Thanks for the physical chemistry. Makes sense. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jun 19 #40
I'll... 2naSalit Jun 18 #12
Lifestyle correlation? Article does not discuss methodology. Munchies? Bernardo de La Paz Jun 18 #13
I wonder which pharma company paid for this "study". nt ImNotGod Jun 18 #15
None, according to the study itself The Revolution Jun 18 #27
While the authors haven't said, somebody paid. Kid Berwyn Jun 19 #46
Published: February 28, 2024 justaprogressive Jun 18 #17
Edibles increase MY heart rate and blood pressure Ponietz Jun 18 #19
It will be interesting to see if other ways to consume cannabis... keep_left Jun 18 #21
See post 25 MichMan Jun 20 #50
Thanks for the info. Strange that edibles seem to be worse... keep_left Jun 20 #74
This study doesn't establish cannabis as a cause misanthrope Jun 18 #22
Actually didn"t show it at all. They think it's linked. Blue Full Moon Jun 18 #23
Just spray Round up on your food & eat it... SheltieLover Jun 18 #28
I don't have because the farmers already do that for me! Jacson6 Jun 20 #67
I don't give a shit. SamKnause Jun 18 #29
I'm going to save time and call bullshit now. -misanthroptimist Jun 18 #30
"Oh, WOW, man"!--Tommy Chong. "What he said!"--Cheech Marin RedWhiteBlueIsRacist Jun 18 #31
It's been around forever NOW it's a hazard? I don't believe it. live love laugh Jun 18 #32
might depend on amount used and form...smoke, eat, drink herb tea etc msongs Jun 18 #33
There is hell to pay on this website to say anything negative about pot. NNadir Jun 18 #34
As someone who is in 24/7 unrelenting, chronic pain usedtobedemgurl Jun 21 #83
Like I say, I always have to take crap for my position. Heroin is an excellent treatment for pain, but I abhor it too. NNadir Jun 21 #84
I am sorry if you feel I am giving you crap for your opinion. usedtobedemgurl Jun 21 #86
I assume this is just about smoking pot. intheflow Jun 18 #35
See post 25 MichMan Jun 20 #51
Me & my atypical reactions, LOL Had some minor heart issues. Also little sleep from spinal arthritis pain. Attilatheblond Jun 18 #38
Im not a scientist so i wont agree or dispute this. Samael13 Jun 19 #44
This is from what use to be CNN more faux than faux news. Blue Full Moon Jun 19 #47
I'm pro-pot and smoked it in my younger days but electricmonk Jun 19 #48
And this my friends is why you use edibles TacosUberAlles Jun 19 #49
You can dip regular weed to underpants Jun 20 #52
You can? TacosUberAlles Jun 20 #62
My understanding of THC is that it is generally heat-activated misanthrope Jun 20 #68
It works for me. underpants Jun 20 #70
Decarboxylation. For best results, decarb before cooking, to ensure decarb, though some cooking methods don't need it Bernardo de La Paz Jun 20 #79
Yes. Looked it up. Guess I'm not supposed to. underpants Jun 20 #71
I am also an Alpha-1 misanthrope Jun 20 #57
Oh wow TacosUberAlles Jun 20 #61
I have only met one other Alpha-1 in person misanthrope Jun 20 #65
It's really from the crap munchies folks eat after using*. flvegan Jun 20 #53
Not a big fan of Yahoo news. Emile Jun 20 #54
Willy, Snoop Traildogbob Jun 20 #55
No surprise. The MJ of now isn't the MJ of the 1960s-1970s. valleyrogue Jun 20 #56
LMAO aocommunalpunch Jun 20 #63
Shouldn't that mean that you have to smoke less of it misanthrope Jun 20 #69
So using your judgemental logic, keeping it illegal Emile Jun 20 #72
Maybe it's not the weed, but the unhealthy snack food? Attilatheblond Jun 20 #58
Good to know SSJVegeta Jun 20 #60
We are all going to die of something, sometime. Jacson6 Jun 20 #64
According to this BS study I should have died in 1970. Emile Jun 20 #66
My hubby would have died by now Tree Lady Jun 20 #73
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 20 #75
Everyone is different but all of my cousins who used mj (heavily) ecstatic Jun 20 #76
As we get older, we are more likely to die from... Chemical Bill Jun 21 #82
The denialism is familiar DavidDvorkin Jun 21 #89
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