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jazzimov

(1,456 posts)
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 06:36 PM Aug 2013

The Democratic Party is a Big Tent [View all]

There is no “purity test” to be a Democrat. When people start talking about a “True Democrat”, they need to read up on The No True Scotsman Fallacy.

The fact is that we NEED the DLC, the Centrists, and all the other types of Democrats. Although you personally may not agree with some of their stances, remember that if you are a free-thinker then NO ONE will agree with everything you stand for.

If someone disagrees with you, then you must at least try to change their mind. If someone is diametrically opposed to a particular stance, it’s must more difficult than some who is closer to your stance. Which means that it is much easier to convince someone who is a Centrist than someone who is extremely Right Wing. BUT do not begin your debate by denigrating them and calling them names. ESPECIALLY do not call someone names or try to lump them into a particular group simply because they disagree with you on a single point. DO NOT simply dismiss them because they disagree with you on a single point. They may actually agree with you on every other point and potentially could be a powerful ally.

It is also important that you LISTEN to their points. This is important for several reasons - the most important one I can think of is that everyone wants to feel that they are being LISTENED to. The second, IMHO, is that it gives you leverage in the debate, so that you can understand what is the most important point to them personally, and try to refute that point. There are many more advantages to this tactic that I will leave to others to point out.

Finally, argue with LOGIC and FACTS. Be prepared that FACTS can change, as more about a certain issue is revealed. This is where it can really get tricky. Don’t be prepared to accept FACTS at face value, although you may be forced to argue against the facts that are presented. If the facts presented don’t fit the logical narrative, then there may be more facts presented in the future OR the facts are being misrepresented. The latter is the most commonly used tactic by idealists on both sides. This is commonly known as “spin”. It is our job to make sure that ALL the facts are available.

Also, remember that the majority of Independent voters are Centrist. We need those Independent Centrists to win elections. Many people consider this as “voting for the lesser of 2 evils”. Again, I refer the reader back to my earlier statement that NO-ONE will match all of your ideals. Which means that no matter who you vote for, it will ALWAYS be the lesser of 2 evils in your mind., since they will never match all of your ideals unless you are a “lock-step” or single-issue voter.

If we try to impose purity tests as the Right wing has done, we will end up breaking into different factions with no power. Although the majority of US citizens support Liberal policies, we will be broken up into smaller factions which are powerless against the minority. Just as a for instance, let’s say that the Socialist Party gets 20%. The Green Party gets 20%. The Democratic Party gets 20%. That means that 60% of the population supports some kind of Liberal Agenda, although it doesn’t agree on the what the Liberal Agenda should be. Meanwhile, the unified Right Wing gets 40%, which means they win.

Perhaps we should change the Electoral Process - I would support that. BUT, we have to WIN in order to impose that change.

BOTTOM LINE - if we want effective change, we must win elections. Period. If we want to change peoples minds, then we must do so individually, with logic, and recognize that no everyone will agree with us. TO CHANGE THEIR MINDS we must first LISTEN to them, and then challenge their belief system armed with LOGIC and facts.

But we HAVE to win elections. Sorry if that contradicts your preferences, but welcome to reality!

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There are two parties, the Democratic Party is not required to make room for members of the other sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #1
This message was self-deleted by its author Adam051188 Aug 2013 #5
No, not "required" jazzimov Aug 2013 #6
Well, that's different. I'm all for working with other Parties and supporting any good ideas they sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #69
Wrong. We don't "need" the DLC. That's what the GOP is for. NorthCarolina Aug 2013 #2
Damn right! hobbit709 Aug 2013 #3
Amd that tells me that you are exaclty jazzimov Aug 2013 #9
I just want to see the Democratic Party return to advocating for the public. NorthCarolina Aug 2013 #12
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2013 #14
The ideology and personal convictions of these folks will not change, NorthCarolina Aug 2013 #16
So it seems that you WILL not change your mind jazzimov Aug 2013 #61
+1 forestpath Aug 2013 #20
+1 Reagan Democrats can return to the GOP soon leftstreet Aug 2013 #49
The DLC is NOT the GOP. jazzimov Aug 2013 #66
Their economic policies are pretty similar Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #68
Sorry. Anybody who comes in here with a misogynistic or homophobic or anti-repro-choice kestrel91316 Aug 2013 #4
I can understand most of that, jazzimov Aug 2013 #17
Do you not understand that "both barrels" is a figure of speech and not to be taken literally. kestrel91316 Aug 2013 #47
there comes a point where in standing for everything and everyone, you end up standing for nothing quinnox Aug 2013 #7
that is a very good point jazzimov Aug 2013 #27
Getting there will probably be a long and slow process quinnox Aug 2013 #39
I don't mind their "stances". It's what they do when elected. Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2013 #8
And what do you expect when they are elected? jazzimov Aug 2013 #29
I expect them to do what 3d Way politicians do. Collaborate with their pals across the aisle. Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2013 #50
I don't need the DLC at all seeing as how I am no longer a democrat. I am free to vote for liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #10
Then why are you posting on DEMOCRATIC Underground? jazzimov Aug 2013 #30
you do realize there are independents on this message board right? Independents just waiting for a liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #31
I want those things, too jazzimov Aug 2013 #67
Many DUers would rather lose elections... SidDithers Aug 2013 #11
Some people live miserable lives zappaman Aug 2013 #15
True dat! n/t FSogol Aug 2013 #19
Some people live in the real world Fumesucker Aug 2013 #33
And a very few DUers have no stake at all and simply stir up shit for their own amusement. n/t Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #25
Everyone needs a hobby I guess. I think I shall become an avid fan of curling star elections Dragonfli Aug 2013 #42
ROTFLMAO! Well done! Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #52
Some of you people are comedy gold...nt SidDithers Aug 2013 #53
You are exactly right. Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #45
Interesting Andy823 Aug 2013 #51
A lot of independent voters are "moderate", but NOT corporatist (unlike the DLC "moderates")... cascadiance Aug 2013 #13
No, the DLC needs us to win elections. We don't need them for anything. nt bemildred Aug 2013 #18
The DLC needs us, true - jazzimov Aug 2013 #34
For what? The country is just awash already in corrupt venal politicians. nt bemildred Aug 2013 #35
Sure, lets kowtow to the DLC. We NEED them, right? Deny and Shred Aug 2013 #60
Big tent, my ass. I will never vote for anti-choice candidate. Period. forestpath Aug 2013 #21
OK, then, Democratic Party. Bye! MotherPetrie Aug 2013 #22
Then you never supported the Democratic Party. jazzimov Aug 2013 #36
Actually, the person you should address your comments to is the OP, who is eager MotherPetrie Aug 2013 #38
LOL! I am the OP! jazzimov Aug 2013 #64
here we go yet again. If we don't vote for your candidate then we are aiding the enemy. liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #40
You're correct, other things being equal -- but other things aren't equal Jim Lane Aug 2013 #23
Thank you, although I have to disagee jazzimov Aug 2013 #43
Thank you for so clearly demonstrating why there is no hope within the system. Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #24
yeah it's pretty evident that the people in government right now both republican and democrat care liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #26
Exactly. There is no other occupation I can think of where the rewards are so large, the risks Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #32
The Democratic Party IS a Big Tent, but bvar22 Aug 2013 #28
You're right, jazzimov Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #37
This is, unfortunately, a very accurate assessment. CakeGrrl Aug 2013 #44
Exactly, CakeGrrl. Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #48
You had some of these folks actually saying that Obama was going to lose last year Number23 Aug 2013 #58
This should be an OP... SidDithers Aug 2013 #54
In another DU world Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #56
I think I love you. Number23 Aug 2013 #57
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2013 #41
This OP makes me think of the Grand Bargain mick063 Aug 2013 #46
Then don't bitch when you lose jazzimov Aug 2013 #65
I shall bitch as I please mick063 Aug 2013 #70
Couldn't have said it better myself, Jamaal510 Aug 2013 #55
The reality is that LWolf Aug 2013 #59
Me either, they lay down too easy for big money. Rex Aug 2013 #62
The only purity test is this: Demo-crat AZ Progressive Aug 2013 #63
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