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starroute

(12,977 posts)

15. Paul Krugman says there isn't

Sun Jul 12, 2015, 05:29 PM

Jul 2015

"Tsipras apparently allowed himself to be convinced, some time ago, that euro exit was completely impossible. It appears that Syriza didn’t even do any contingency planning for a parallel currency (I hope to find out that this is wrong). This left him in a hopeless bargaining position. I’m even hearing from people who should know that Ambrose Evans-Pritchard is right, that he hoped to lose the referendum, to give an excuse for capitulation."
(http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/12/disaster-in-europe/?module=BlogPost-Title&version=Blog%20Main&contentCollection=Opinion&action=Click&pgtype=Blogs®ion=Body)

And in a follow-up post an hour ago, Krugman wrote:

"Suppose you consider Tsipras an incompetent twerp. Suppose you dearly want to see Syriza out of power. Suppose, even, that you welcome the prospect of pushing those annoying Greeks out of the euro.

"Even if all of that is true, this Eurogroup list of demands is madness. The trending hashtag ThisIsACoup is exactly right. This goes beyond harsh into pure vindictiveness, complete destruction of national sovereignty, and no hope of relief. It is, presumably, meant to be an offer Greece can’t accept; but even so, it’s a grotesque betrayal of everything the European project was supposed to stand for."
(http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/12/killing-the-european-project/?module=BlogPost-Title&version=Blog%20Main&contentCollection=Opinion&action=Click&pgtype=Blogs®ion=Body)

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Syriza in shock over creditors' demands [View all] muriel_volestrangler Jul 2015 OP

It could and if Merkel doesn't like Syriza Warpy Jul 2015 #1

You would think someone has a secret emergency plan developed in the last 6 months. n/t PoliticAverse Jul 2015 #2

"Too big to fail " can apply to a country, too DFW Jul 2015 #6

Paul Krugman says there isn't starroute Jul 2015 #15

"it’s a grotesque betrayal of everything the European project was supposed to stand for" PoliticAverse Jul 2015 #16

Yes, it's worse starroute Jul 2015 #20

They got swindled Nevernose Jul 2015 #37

You can't lay all of Greece's financial problems at the feet of a few oligarchs or bankers mythology Jul 2015 #44

Can I hear an 'amen'? Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #55

You can't call it a "swindle" when they were paying Goldman Sachs to lie for them Recursion Jul 2015 #51

There's no chance of the communists winning muriel_volestrangler Jul 2015 #3

"Winning" would mean a chunk of a coalition government Warpy Jul 2015 #7

They wouldn't be a junior member of a coalition muriel_volestrangler Jul 2015 #8

If a "New Drachma" isn't convertible DFW Jul 2015 #4

The black markets will be how a lot of them survive. Warpy Jul 2015 #9

Merkel as a hardliner is a myth spun by the ones who paint her photo with a Hitler mustache DFW Jul 2015 #46

Hey, DFW, glad you dared to wade in here - SO spot on... Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #56

Where is Syriza getting the money for "issuing bank cards"? brooklynite Jul 2015 #10

I guess in the scenario listed they would be printing Drachmas like mad? I dont think folks rooting stevenleser Jul 2015 #25

It could be Euro-pegged IOUs, sort of like Brazil's transitional currency Recursion Jul 2015 #53

Economics 101... Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #57

The KKE has been inept Depaysement Jul 2015 #11

The KKE were the only ones telling the truth about Syriza... AOR Jul 2015 #18

So change will never come Depaysement Jul 2015 #23

You say: "So change will never come"... AOR Jul 2015 #27

Who cares about a rock solid analysis . . . Depaysement Jul 2015 #34

Not exactly sure what you are trying to say on this Depaysement... AOR Jul 2015 #36

Exactly Depaysement Jul 2015 #38

Well...not being on the ground there or involved... AOR Jul 2015 #45

Perhaps they wil be rewarded after all Depaysement Jul 2015 #48

Well again the KKE was spot on in calling it like it is... AOR Jul 2015 #62

I may have a way out Depaysement Jul 2015 #64

Not sure where you stand... AOR Jul 2015 #65

Hey there, Depaysement...you probably still have me on 'ignore', but on the off-chance... Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #59

The Greek Civil War - 1946–1949. Today's Greeks (by 66.5%) want to stay in the EU and the Euro-zone Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #58

The alternative in this case is the far right: Betty Karlson Jul 2015 #49

makes you wonder which German Bank put so fresh cash in Tsipras' Swiss bank account JCMach1 Jul 2015 #5

So that thing about the referendum "no" vote strengthening Greece's negotiating position, Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #12

Unfortunately he choose a finance minister that wrote a book on game theory and not PoliticAverse Jul 2015 #17

Now don't be harsh booksandpencils Jul 2015 #63

Time for Greece to recite part of this document: freshwest Jul 2015 #13

The EU wants that more than Greece FLPanhandle Jul 2015 #21

Greece hill2016 Jul 2015 #31

It doesn't matter, this is what precipitated the Greek actions that brought it to a head. n/t freshwest Jul 2015 #40

Its NOT "Blackmail". bvar22 Jul 2015 #14

So if my brother-in-law who already owes me a lot of money begs me for another loan, Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #19

You And Your Brother-In-Law Are Two People... WillyT Jul 2015 #24

So the identity of the people involved dumbcat Jul 2015 #28

Yes... When You Put Entire Democracies And Their People At Risk... Yes... WillyT Jul 2015 #29

The Ministry of Truth dumbcat Jul 2015 #41

So Apparently...None Of That Means Anything To You... WillyT Jul 2015 #42

Of course it does. It means you will change the definitions of words dumbcat Jul 2015 #43

I think hill2016 Jul 2015 #33

Here's a more appropriate analogy starroute Jul 2015 #26

Except that he doesn't "have" to do anything. Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #30

Many here think... Adrahil Jul 2015 #35

sounds hill2016 Jul 2015 #32

This would be the "in receivership" alternative. n/t PoliticAverse Jul 2015 #52

It's called a "debt colony" and it's how Europe treated most of Africa and Asia for years Recursion Jul 2015 #54

You may argue that with the OP in which the demands were called "blackmail". bvar22 Jul 2015 #60

Intentionally confusing "extortion" and "coercion" for a better-sounding bumper sticker? LanternWaste Jul 2015 #61

THANK YOU !!! WillyT Jul 2015 #22

It's quite close to the original meaning of 'blackmail' muriel_volestrangler Jul 2015 #47

I thought this was an interesting view on Greece's debt & one not mentioned much dflprincess Jul 2015 #39

Tsipras must become a sacrificial lamb if Syriza is to survive. joshcryer Jul 2015 #50