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Israel/Palestine
In reply to the discussion: Palestine is a global, not a Western issue [View all]Little Tich
(6,171 posts)18. It's probable that the Tantura massacre actually did happen.
Benny Morris reviewed the whole thing in 2004, and he seems to argue that a massacre probably took place but there's no proof - yet.
Source: The Jerusalem Report, February 2004
(p21, snip)
Teddy Katz may have written, and rewritten, a bad thesis; he may have recanted and then recanted his recantation. But does this prove that there wasnt a massacre in Tantura? Not really. I listened to some of Katzs taped interviews with Alexandroni veterans, interviewed some myself, and interviewed one of Katzs more solid Arab witnesses and came away with a deep sense of unease.
In the Tantura case, so far, no such evidence has surfaced. Millions of army documents from 1948 have not yet been screened and declassified, and perhaps an Israeli or Arab diary entry will yet surface. But so far, there is nothing.
In the Tantura case, so far, no such evidence has surfaced. Millions of army documents from 1948 have not yet been screened and declassified, and perhaps an Israeli or Arab diary entry will yet surface. But so far, there is nothing.
(snip p21)
Or almost nothing. There is one 1948 document that gives off the rancid smell of atrocity. But it is not as explicit as a historian would like. An Alexandroni man, Tulik Makovsky, died in battle on June 1, 1948. But a week before, he was in Tantura and jotted down in his diary: On the hill to the left were snipers who succeeded in hitting too many people. Two squads were sent to catch them. I was in one of them. After advancing according to the rule book, we succeeded in catching six snipers. We discovered their arms after firing to frighten them. What I learned here was that our boys know the craft of murder quite well... especially boys whose relatives the Arabs had murdered... or those harmed by Hitler [they are the same fascists]. They took their private revenge, and avenged our comrades who had died at their hands, against the snipers. I felt that in doing this they were unleashing all the anger and letting out all the bitterness that had accumulated.
Israeli 1948 documentation declassified over the past decade indicates that Alexandronis commanders didnt want Tantura to surrender, as this might have entailed its continued existence behind the Israeli lines (like Fureidis, further inland). The May 22, 1948 operational order for the conquest of the village, by the commander of the 33rd Battalion, made no mention of what should become of the inhabitants.
The initial post-battle report, apparently from May 23, by Avraham, the brigade intelligence officer, reported that the enemy had suffered about 20 dead and that 300 adult males and 200 women and children had been taken prisoner. A follow-up report, by A Companys deputy commander, written on May 26, said nothing about the fate of civilians, though it mentioned the need to put an end to the looting by troops and civilians from nearby Jewish settlements. No one mentioned a massacre or atrocities.
But the conquest of Tantura did give rise to a series of enigmatic documents. None of the three versions of a report on the Tantura operation by Yaakov Epstein Yakub al-Mukhtar (Yakub the Headman), as the Tantura Arabs called him who served as a liaison between Zikhron Yaakov and the surrounding Arab villages, mentions a massacre. And nowhere does he say that his arrival on the morning of May 23 put an end to a massacre (as several of Katzs Arab witnesses alleged). He does say that he found dead Arabs scattered about the approaches [to the village], in the streets, in the alleyways, in the village houses and around it; that Alexandroni commanders asked him to look over the adult males, who were sitting in two long rows, and identify any non-locals; that he organized the gathering and burial of the dead in mass graves. And that he was fearful that this night there would be an unpleasant [event] in the village. In my heart I thought that there could be another Deir Yassin. He advised commanders that it would be best that the remaining villagers, mostly women and children, be trucked to Fureidis. This expulsion, which he described, duly followed.
Israeli 1948 documentation declassified over the past decade indicates that Alexandronis commanders didnt want Tantura to surrender, as this might have entailed its continued existence behind the Israeli lines (like Fureidis, further inland). The May 22, 1948 operational order for the conquest of the village, by the commander of the 33rd Battalion, made no mention of what should become of the inhabitants.
The initial post-battle report, apparently from May 23, by Avraham, the brigade intelligence officer, reported that the enemy had suffered about 20 dead and that 300 adult males and 200 women and children had been taken prisoner. A follow-up report, by A Companys deputy commander, written on May 26, said nothing about the fate of civilians, though it mentioned the need to put an end to the looting by troops and civilians from nearby Jewish settlements. No one mentioned a massacre or atrocities.
But the conquest of Tantura did give rise to a series of enigmatic documents. None of the three versions of a report on the Tantura operation by Yaakov Epstein Yakub al-Mukhtar (Yakub the Headman), as the Tantura Arabs called him who served as a liaison between Zikhron Yaakov and the surrounding Arab villages, mentions a massacre. And nowhere does he say that his arrival on the morning of May 23 put an end to a massacre (as several of Katzs Arab witnesses alleged). He does say that he found dead Arabs scattered about the approaches [to the village], in the streets, in the alleyways, in the village houses and around it; that Alexandroni commanders asked him to look over the adult males, who were sitting in two long rows, and identify any non-locals; that he organized the gathering and burial of the dead in mass graves. And that he was fearful that this night there would be an unpleasant [event] in the village. In my heart I thought that there could be another Deir Yassin. He advised commanders that it would be best that the remaining villagers, mostly women and children, be trucked to Fureidis. This expulsion, which he described, duly followed.
Read more: http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~censor/katz-directory/04-02-06morris-the-jerusalem-report-tantura.pdf
This is why Benny Morris is a historian, even if I don't agree with him, and all those who deny the massacre ever happened are simply wrong.
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Ilan Pappe is one of the few people I trust, even though he's way more left than me.
Little Tich
Sep 2015
#1
Morris himself puts the number of possible victims at "dozens, if not hundreds".
Little Tich
Sep 2015
#25
Interesting. I got the impression that it was plausible that the massacre happened,
Little Tich
Sep 2015
#39
Now I know how you feel when I'm too stubborn to understand that Mondoweiss is a hate-site.
Little Tich
Sep 2015
#44
I did take a look at MEMO, and I didn't find anything I didn't like on their site.
Little Tich
Sep 2015
#21
The British High Court has found that it's libelous to link Interpal and Hamas.
Little Tich
Sep 2015
#26
That literally means nothing. Everyone knows all money & supplies going into Gaza....
shira
Sep 2015
#32
Jeremy Corbyn ‘very good friends’ with preacher who compared gays to paedophiles
oberliner
Sep 2015
#28
I don't know if you know this, but the Chief Rabbis of Israel seem to be racist and a little bit
Little Tich
Sep 2015
#35
Supporting Hamas shooting rockets into Israel is just as bad as supporting the IDF bombing Gaza.
Little Tich
Sep 2015
#33
I can forgive Bernie Sanders for what he said, because he seems to be giving equal consideration for
Little Tich
Sep 2015
#38
It's not about attacking or defending, nor is it about being justified or not.
Little Tich
Sep 2015
#43
I've read both, so I can compare them, and I think Benny Morris is the one who seems keen on fudging
Little Tich
Sep 2015
#16
I'm looking at his book "One Palestine, complete - Jews and Arabs under the British Mandate"
Little Tich
Sep 2015
#19