Opening discussion of generalized web problem of 'pit-bull trolls' [View All]

[cloudythescribbler]

I'm looking for a few good progressives to check out these sites and examine the comments and verbal tactics of rightwing 'pit-bull trolls' who tend to drive away any kind of even minimally outspoken progressives. I would also like to know of other sites that are at least as important as these (National Ledger ain't exactly on a level with DU, to say the least) where this is going on, and what their URL is. I think that it is an issue that should be confronted, at least by a handful of progressives. It is not a waste of time, as the results can be taken into other fora and become an issue of the possibility of democracy flourishing on the web. If progressives can't have unhindered access in practice to discussion fora where there are other than mainly progressives, that is a problem.
There should be ways of countering flaming as a systematic tactic, even in open fora let alone at DU.

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The general problem on the web, much worse at other discussion sites than at DU itself, of what I call pit-bull trolls, should be addressed by progressives with at least the verve that rightwingers have in promoting it. They seem to police various discussion fora, and be so vicious and shamelessly bigoted and flaming as to tend to drive anyone with what they consider a 'liberal' view (and failing to make any distinction between a liberal and a progressive or leftist) from the discussion, especially if the progressive wants to assert anything of interest.
I have seen how others have been driven from these fora this way, while I have stayed to face long chains of responses with ad-hominem attacks etc.

Let me cite two concrete examples, one a largely conservative dominated forum (National Ledger, at http://www.nationalledger.com/news/unmod/index.cgi)
and the other a forum with many progressives, Open Democracy, at http://www.opendemocracy.net/home/index.jsp for the home page.

First the openDemocracy case. In discussing the papal selection, I advocated, in very moderate terms, that authentic progressives, both Catholic and non, should pressure the Catholic Church to place at least as much emphasis IN POLITICAL PRACTICE on their concerns for the culture of life when it comes to the environment, peace and social justice as insistently as they are with abortion. With remarks expressing such sentiments as relief that the 'French Jew, Lustiger' didn't get the job, and a pit-bull troll defending the denial that that statement was antiSemitic, the ad hominem attacks poured like wine, along with the sophistry, the flaming etc. I was persistent, but most people are not likely to be. Indeed, I can be pretty powerful in my own criticism when I choose, while remaining substantive, such as: http://www.opendemocracy.net/forums/thread.jspa?forumID=87&threadID=44311&tstart=0
But in any event, the ability of those who avoid substantive argument -- I like a good argument, like I am starting with the person who has already responded to that post -- by chasing away progressives is a problem.

Another case is the predominantly conservative National Ledger. Their largely conservative forum (see web cite above) is crawling with rightwing pit-bull trolls. Incidentally, I haven't noticed progressives behaving this way in fora against rightwingers, but if and when and where it does occur, progressives should oppose it.
But I would encourage others to visit the sites I have mentioned and just look around for the phenomena I describe -- you can't miss it at National Ledger! And then respond effectively and discuss the problem here as well