Reply #86: Nonsense. [View All]

[Workers To Power]

"Oh, I get it. Americans have no right to America, but the rest of the world does."

Why kind of chauvanist shit is this? For one, it's the US. Not "America". "America" is two whole continents, of which the U.S. only makes up a part.

Second, "Americans" have no rights. The average U.S. worker has no rights or ownership of anything. We are landless wage-slaves that will owe money until we die. As for groups like "Johnson & Johnson" - direct descendents of plantation owners - they have the "right" to have their money seized and redistributed to the descendents of the people enslaved, displaced and murdered for profit.

Third, "the rest of the world" has been subject to the whims of the U.S. ruling class for years. The U.S. has no "right" to invade countries and overthrow leaders who act against their interests. It has no "right" to invade countries to preserve markets and access to cheap resources. The "rest of the world" has a right to be paid back for the atrocities carried out against them by the U.S. government and its military (and this goes for all former colonies and violated countries. France owes Algeria as much as the U.S. owes Puerto Rico).

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"In a referendum in 1999 only 3% voted for independence."

You don't know what Puerto Ricans want. You ever heard of taking on the mindset of the oppressor? Alot of Puerto Ricans have societal stockholm syndrome. They've been subjigated so long that they've become dependent in large part on government "assistance," which in reality keeps them tied to the deterirating colonial system. They're affraid they'll end up blockaded and under attack, isolated and opposed, if they win their independence. And for good reason! It's the same reason alot of Nicas voted against the FSLN in the second election. If you don't think alot of Puerto Ricans want independence, you're ignorant to the situation, see: http://www.freepeoplesmovement.org/fpm/page.php?201

"It's insulting. If I beat you up and take $1000 from your wallet, and then hand you $50 of your stolen money back as "reparations", does that somehow make it better? Most Native Americans don't buy into reparations because they understand that no reparations can repay the losses they suffered, and that any reparations they receive will be derived from the lands stolen from them in the first place."

What's this based on? I'm from a family of native people, and most of my family wants reparations. Most of the native people I know want it. AIM wanted it, and fought for it, and that's why Leonard Peltier is rotting in a U.S. prison right now. There's nothing insulting about it. It's not going to be a handout. It's going to be something we get only as a result of a long and sustained fight. It's going to take working class unity across the board (black, latino, asian, white).

The fact that the reparation are derived from the lands stolen from native people is the exact reason why it must be paid back. Native people are in a sustained condition of poverty and misery. Lack of education and unemployment affect native people deeply. The only way to even begin to reverse that, in order to have real "equal rights for all" is to pay reparations. And the same goes for black people.

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"yet your original post only speaks of those with ethnic backgrounds that could be documented.

So now it's all the people huh?"

I can't make heads or tails from your posts. The mix of rhetorical questions (?) and jumbled thoughts makes for difficult decyphering.

Reparations need to be paid to the oppressed nations within the U.S.: blacks, native people, chicanos, Puerto Ricans; and the nations ravaged by imperialism, which were previously mentioned.

This money needs to come from the corporations that benefited from their exploitation and destruction. The average working person doesn't owe, they're owed! Big business does owe, in a major way.

"My question stands, do you gain personally if only those with documentable claims can benefit. If this is the case, then the "reparation solution" is a phoney elite class argument designed to separate one people from another, keeping the elite on top."

Because I'm of native heritage this is a "phoney elite class argument designed to separate one people from another, keeping the elite on top" ??

What is this a joke?

Black, native and Chicano people are the poorest, least educated, most unemployed and most imprisoned. This is a direct result of the miserable history of this country and the development of its capitalist system.

Paying reparations isn't going to create "a new elite," it's going to BEGIN (and ONLY begin) to give oppressed people equal footing, and the foundation for real "equal rights for all". Without it, the condition of these people will remain unchanged.

"Spare the "power to the people" argument that will exact a payment from everyone except a narrow group of people. I've heard and seen this solution before only to see it screw an entire generation of white males from job opportunities and training."

Here comes the veiled racism and U.S.-chauvanism. "White males" are not oppressed as "white males' buddy, sorry to break it to you. There is no "judeo-feminazi front" holding the white man down.

Now, most white people, like all other people, are workers, and are exploited. But black, native and chicano people are ALSO exploited as NATIONS. They are doubly exploited. No one is denied a job for being white. There are no stereotypes of white people that keep them from gaining employment and housing. Police don't murder white people BECAUSE THEY'RE WHITE, and then get promotions.

Until you realize that your interests, as a "white male" worker (and I'm assuming that's what you are), are tied in with the interests of black, native and Chicano people, and their fight for liberation, you won't get anywhere.

I can smell the underlying tones of anti-immigrant and protectionist garbage in your post, and to that I'll respond with a part of a good article on the subject:

"The ridiculousness of anti-immigrant hysteria, which is being promoted by the capitalists and their agents in the mainstream media, in a country made up almost entirely of immigrants should not go unnoticed. The waves of European immigrants at the end of the nineteenth and beginning of the twentieth centuries, and their radicalization as industrial workers gave rise to the first real struggles for workers’ rights in the U.S.. Influenced by the strong revolutionary movements in Europe, and later by the October Revolution in Russia, they fought for, and won, the eight hour work day, overtime pay, the right to unionize, benefits, workplace safety standards and much more.

"Today, all of those gains are coming under attack, made possible by the disintegration of the unions, which is caused by betrayals by union bureaucrats and a series of assaults by the bosses and their representatives, starting with the smashing of the PATCO air trafic controllers’ strike by Ronald Reagan in 1981.

"The current increases in immigration are driven directly by capitalist globalization and “free trade agreements,” which have eliminated national industries, driven down wages and working conditions, and generally destroyed what little protection and benefits workers had in places like Latin America (where most immigrants to the U.S. come from).

"Working people need to come together, despite petty divisions created and fostered by the ruling class and their agents, to fight for our combined interests. There is a real possibility of turning this fight into a fight to fundamentally change society for the better, and to win." - http://www.freepeoplesmovement.org/fpm/page.php?182

"You should read MLK rainbow coallition ideas, and as for separate countries, that is so Malcolm X. Pushing for benefits of one group or another, will only fail, but that is the plan with these "reparation solutions", to fail and split people up into groups fighting each other."

What's wrong with Malcom? Absolutely nothing is. Malcolm has the correct line on black liberation; Dr. King did not. When Dr. King became more radicalized and began to understand what needed to be done (fight for black liberation as a part of the fight of all workers for real democracy), he was killed.

Calling for reparations is calling for THE ROAD to equality to be built. It won't give black, chicano and native people any "special standing," and in fact, it won't even make them EQUAL! But it will be a beginning.

Don't blame the plight of workers on black, chicano and native people standing up for their rights. That sort of scapegoating is what lead to holocaust. Black, chicano and native workers are your friends, white bosses are not - no matter what color you are.