For First Time, Most Say Iraq War Was a Mistake

[Tinoire]

For First Time, Most Say Iraq War Was a Mistake

Poll Also Finds Slight Majority Favoring Rumsfeld's Exit

By John F. Harris and Christopher Muste
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, December 21, 2004; Page A04

President Bush heads into his second term amid deep and growing public skepticism about the Iraq war, with a solid majority saying for the first time that the war was a mistake and most people believing that Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld should lose his job, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

While a slight majority believe the Iraq war contributed to the long-term security of the United States, 70 percent of Americans think these gains have come at an "unacceptable" cost in military casualties. This led 56 percent to conclude that, given the cost, the conflict there was "not worth fighting" -- an eight-point increase from when the same question was asked this summer, and the first time a decisive majority of people have reached this conclusion.

(snip)

A full 57 percent disapprove of his handling of Iraq, a number that is seven percentage points higher than a poll taken in September. But the president's core political asset, public confidence in his leadership on terrorism, remains intact, albeit down significantly from even a year ago. Fifty-three percent approve of his record on terrorism, while 43 percent do not. Those numbers were 70 percent and 28 percent a year ago this week.

(snip)

The Post poll also showed such partisan divides on many foreign policy and national security questions. In a potential trouble sign for the White House, Republicans' support for Bush on these questions is lower than the Democratic opposition. And majorities of independents side with the Democrats in their skepticism toward the administration's course.

(snip)

There are similar splits on Iraq. Majorities of Republicans, Democrats and independents agree the elections should be held. But more than two-thirds of Democrats and about six in 10 independents believe that Iraq is not ready for elections and that the vote will not be fair and will not produce a stable Iraqi government, in contrast to a majority of Republicans. Opinion is even more sharply divided over the outcome of elections. Seven in 10 Democrats and five in nine independents believe elections will not produce a stable government in Iraq, while more than two-thirds of Republicans believe they will.

(snip)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14266-2004Dec20.html

[NVMojo]

1. a Big Duh just doesn't do this justice .....

[LynnTheDem]

5. LOL!!!

I agree. Not even a SUPER-SIZED Big Duh. :D

[barb162]

15. ditto duh

[mediaman007]

97. Can America be that stupid?

1. Yes, the Fundies will stay with Bush* over the cliff.

2. Yes, the people in the middle only pay attention once every four years.

3. No, I doubt that anyone posting at DU prior to "Shock and Awe" ever thought that the war was a necessity.

[Bouncy Ball]

2. And only 21 months later!

We're quick, us Americans.

:eyes:

Geez. Some of us had our Bullshit Detectors going off at Defcon 11 when this FIRST was mentioned.

[rainbow4321]

12. It's the same group of people that said pre-Black Tuesday

"if he is re-elected, there had better be major changes"..Ummmmm, last time I checked the prez is not one of those jobs where you get a 90 day probation period and then ARE LET GO if you are not up to snuff. I said dumbfucks when I heard this comment on the news back in October, I say dumbfucks get what they deserve now.

[cliss]

20. Same here.

It's a little hard for me to feel sympathy for these folks, first now after BeelzeBush's re-selection. Didn't know for sure about Iraq?

What does it take to get someone's attention? Think back to all the demonstrations world-wide against the war. The largest demonstrations in the history of the world were undertaken against this military madness.

Think about Michael Moore's movie, which he practically GAVE away, so as many people as possible could see it. Think about the debates, where Kerry so clearly stated the obvious: the war in Iraq is madness. It was complete lunacy.

The newspapers, which show photo after photo of dead, injured and maimed Iraqis. When does the message register? What about Abu Ghraib, and the 100,000 dead innocent Iraqi bystanders.

For the record, I was NEVER in favor of this war. I was in agony for weeks during the buildup to war. I knew in my guts that it was going to be a disaster. I was not alone. Practically the rest of the world felt the same way.

It's no satisfaction to know I was right.

[ClintonTyree]

75. They BELIEVED the dumb shit...............

after all, our pResident wouldn't lie, correct? They believed him because they're too stupid to do a little research. They believe everything they hear on FAUX News, so why question anything?
American's are just too damn lazy and complacent to attempt uncovering the truth about the Administration that is leading this Country straight to Hell in a handbasket. Screw 'em, they get everything they deserve. The only problem is we have to pay for their screw-up too. I guess that's what Democracy is all about. The intelligent few have to suffer the mistakes of the ignorant many. If that sounds judgmental and egotistic, tough. It's the truth and the truth isn't always pretty.

[lastliberalintexas]

78. Your post reminds me

of why so many of the (mostly) men who founded this country didn't think it would actually work. Sadly, they're being proven correct.

[Blue_Tires]

94. good point

[Blue_Tires]

95. good point

[Desert Liberal]

104. Exactly.

[okieinpain]

49. and people complain about using "sheeple"

[indie_voter]

54. I couldn't agree more. n/t

[Botany]

79. Want to thank the folks who got us into Iraq?

Project for a New American Century look at their site and the 1998 letter to Clinton asking for this war. Also in Oct. of 2000 they wanted "a new Pearl Harbor" so as to
get an Iraqi war going.

Want to tell these NEOCON shits what you think?

[e-mail]

now do not spread that e mail all over the internet.

:kick:

[NYC]

3. But they don't want to call it off.

I wonder when they will reach that point? I hope soon, but I know better.

[daleo]

23. They are against the war, but don't want to call it off

I would say that qualifies as a quagmire.

[NYC]

26. Reminds me of the expression:

Throwing good money after bad.

[IndianaGreen]

24. We lost the war, but no one wants to admit it publicly

instead we hear politicians from both major parties, like Evan Bayh did today, say that we must win in Iraq.

Fools!

[KansDem]

59. And just like Vietnam and Nixon's "peace with honor" mantra...

This will go on and on with NOBODY admitting we made a mistake and NOBODY accepting responsibility and NOBODY being held accountable.

Yet, US soldiers will continue to die as we play "NOT ME!"

[TankLV]

89. How do these evil people ask one more soldier to DIE FOR A LIE?!?!

Yes, these are EVIL people.

THEY put the rpukes in power.

THEY believed the lies about Kerry and refused to believe the TRUTH about bush*s LIES.

Unfortunately, WE don't deserve the fallout from THEIR stupidity.

[clydefrand]

4. Sooooooooooooo, what made those unenlightened become

enlightened? What was the epiphany? I don't see any difference now and on November 2 except a couple hundred more of our people have been killed and thousands maimed.

[susu369]

42. Good question

and bu$h* approval is low...sooooooooooo, how'd he win the election?

Doesn't make any sense.

[Jose Diablo]

55. Oh, it makes sense all right

He did not win the election. It was fixed.

It is interesting though that MSM is beginning to accurately report polls. Remember how phony the polls were last summer in keeping Bu$h up close to 50% approval? We couldn't figure it out. Has somebody decided to cut Bu$h loose?

[susu369]

70. Bulls-eye

"He did not win the election."

[Demeter]

6. Only 1305+ American Soldiers dead, 15,000+ Wounded

and god knows how many other people, how many innocents...

plus a shattered economy, shattered families, shredded Constitution, stolen elections, and no world reputation worth mentioning...

[Bouncy Ball]

13. DAMN!

Are we already up to 1305 plus???

Last time I checked (which wasn't too long ago) I thought it was still around 1200.

:cry:

[Ilsa]

40. Here's a site you can bookmark:

http://icasualties.org/oif/ Now at 1306, RIP.

It's pretty reliable.

[wildwww2]

85. On sunday`s meet the press. Russert said 1200 dead. And not 1

Senator out of 4 mentioned that 1300 dead had already been or was about to be reached. This is a corporate profit war. And everyone of those Senators is just a stoolie for the corporations. Who are strangling our once great country.
Peace
Wildman
Al Gore is My President

[Dickie Flatt]

7. WE TOLD YOU.

[jellybelly]

8. nobody supports that war...

I honestly don't believe anyone supports the Iraqi war, not even repugs. The problem is they view the anti-war movement as a crazy left-wing creation.

[shraby]

9. They must have quit using subliminal

messages in their news programs and the campaign ads are off the air so those subliminals are gone too. Watch for Bush's numbers to fall off drastically.

[rainbow4321]

16. The repugs who are making $$$ off the wars are supportiive...full coffers

List of companies with Iraq contracts... overflowing with the $$ from chimp's wars. Big ol' list, not just Halliburton.

http://publicintegrity.org/wow/bio.aspx?act=pro&fil=IQ


http://publicintegrity.org/wow/resources.aspx?act=resources

[girl gone mad]

28. It doesn't help that mainstream Democrats refused..

to speak out againt the rush to war, and still refuse to criticize many of the false steps we've taken.

[pokercat999]

33. There are 435 members of congress

almost all of them are JUST AS RESPONSIBLE as B* for this disaster. The democrats in the house and senate should do everything possible to completely shut down the govt until we completely withdraw from Iraq....starting today! Anything less makes them complicit in this atrocity.

[LynnTheDem]

38. 1/2 of the USA and the VAST MAJORITY of the entire world is anti-Iraq war;

That makes the LEFTWING the LARGEST MAJORITY on the planet.

Which means the rightwingnuts are one of the TINIEST MINORITIES on the planet.

:)

[ClintonTyree]

76. Small consolation................

when they control every aspect of our government and judicial system. I have a few things to iron out here in New York, it may take a few years. If by then this country hasn't gotten it's head out of it's collective ass, Kingston, Ontario, Canada her I come.

[Sterling]

106. Yes the last thing they want to do is admit we were right.

Maybe if we acted like them and just bullied our way into power without listening to anyone else we could have avoided this mess. But that is not the action of enlightened people. Those kind of actions have consequences to complicated for the Dumbfuckistani's to understand.


It is funny that they are so bigoted they could not listen to us when we could have helped because they did not like how we dressed who we worshiped who we voted for or who we fuck.

People say we need to reach out to these dipshits but A. they don't want that and B. I am tired of wiping these people's asses for them.

I am really just keeping up with events at this point for entertainment value. I have no hope of getting one ounce of common sense into the skulls of the Dumbfucks.

[Dancing_Dave]

10. Time for some massive anti-war rallies

Bring forth the generous spirit of love and peace this Christmas!

[Pretty_in_CodePink]

36. No rallies are massive in Orlando

However, CODEPINK Orlando has our monthly candlelight Peace vigil tonight out side Representative Ric Keller's office. We hand delivered a nice invitation inviting him to join us to celebrate the season of peace and love. His asst. responded he was unable to attend due to conflicting event. Wouldn't say what the event was though.

[Algorem]

11. They found out Sadaam didn't allow gay marriage?

[yorkiemommie1]

14. told ya so - told ya so

toldya, toldya, toldya so.

i still think they'd dig in their heels for *. all he has to do is press the 'terra' button and the little peabrains respond. they've been conditioned that way. *'s pavlovian pugs.

[ClintonTyree]

77. Funny, isn't it?

We've had a dearth of "Terra" warnings since the election! I guess the "Terraists" are SO discouraged and scared by *'s re-selection that they've taken to hiding and cowering in fear at the mere thought of the Krazy Kowboy. :eyes: Yeah, right!

[Javaman]

17. It appears as if some of those repukes that put * moron back in....

are starting to clear the shit out of their eyes and ears abit, huh?

[truthisfreedom]

18. ho ho ho, bushbots. ho ho ho.

go ho yourselves, bushco.

[AP]

19. Check out Mediatenor.org: most people blame military for mistakes in Iraq

Bush doesn't take the blame.

[Eric J in MN]

21. When will MSNBC's Joe Scarborough issue a public apology to

Janeane Garofalo, for mocking her opposition to the Iraq War?

[saigon68]

27. Never-- he'll clean a toilet bowl w/his tongue First

What an evil troll

[livinginphotographs]

44. He can mock all he wants.

At least she doesn't murder interns.

[bling bling]

22. But we're fighting the terrorists over there...

We had to go fight over there to keep them from coming over here to fight us on our homeland. Bush is keeping us safe. "You're either with us, or you're with the terrorists." Why do Americans hate America?

ok, sarcasm off. YES, I'm bitter. I guess I should be happy that more people are seeing the light. Too bad it's too little, too late.

[okieinpain]

51. the next 9/11 will be the straw that breaks the camels back. I really

believe that is why osama, made his little commercial before the election. he was seeking permission from his cleric's to attack us again. it's just a damn shame that it will probably be another blue state that get's hit.

[artemisia1]

25. We'd like to thank you Herbert Hoover!

Remember that Depression era song? I think the GW will go down in history with the same reputation as such luminaries as Herbert Hoover, Richard Nixon, and James Buchanan. Oh, almost forgot LBJ and Vietnam - except that LBJ had some accomplishments in the Civil Rights area. The great Bush has nothing except deficits, war and corruption.

He would have personally been better of to have lost the election.

MAY THE SCHWARTZ BE WITH YOU!!!
(These are the days when a quote from "Spaceballs" is appropriate in public discourse).

[A Simple Game]

67. I don't think you could be more wrong.

* will have his own category in history, Hoover, Nixon, Buchanan, and LBJ, will be regarded much better than this POS.

The only one who might drop down to his depth of disdain will be Bush1. At 53 my only hope is that I live long enough to see and enjoy * being put in his rightful place.

This all depends on how honest the government will be with the people, they may try to "keep us ignorant for our own sake". Can't let the people know how close the government came to total collapse.

[0007]

29. Any intelligent person can do a little research and find that

junior and his thugs were completely out of line on going to war with Iraq. People like the Carlyle Group and Halliburton and companies like Enron made some richer while other's lost and some died.

[Paleocon]

30. Wait till they start drafting their little Neocon punk ass kids...

Then they'll really have second thoughts...

[dbt]

31. All Praise To The LAPDOG MEDIA!!!!!

Way to go, boys and girls at the anchor desks! By fellating bu$h 24/7 instead of telling the first grain of truth, y'all have given this Illegal Regime all the cover it needed to get us into Viet Nam II. Halliburton is dug so deeply in to the sands of Iraq that it will be damn near impossible to dislodge.

Never mind that Murkins are waking up to the Con; you've all done a superb job of hiding the facts from your viewers--the very ones who have sent their sons and daughters off to the meat grinder while you've told 'em what a swell guy bu$h is.

Take a bow, ABCCBSCNNNBCFochsNoose--and show us your bloody hands!

:argh:
dbt

[DeepModem Mom]

32. YOU SAID IT, dbt!!!

The media made sure this madman got his second term, and people are beginning to wake up to his madness and the dangerous place he's brought us to. With some exceptions in the print press, I hate their selfish, whoring hides with every fiber of my being!

[Ms_Mary]

58. How true. nt

[KansDem]

62. I'm in complete awe of the cupid-doll journalists...

...who can both fellate Bush and lie for him at the same time. I mean, you'd think their jaws would get tired!

Just amazing...

[WillyT]

105. Best... Post... Ever !!!

Right fucking on, dbt!!!

:kick::kick::kick:

[Mandate My Ass]

109. Their bloody hands are hidden behind the botoxed faces

blow-dried pates and vapid, collagen-injected, lying lips.

[Q]

34. Bush* ordered troops into battle but Rummy should go?

I guess the buck will never stop where it belongs.

[GOPBasher]

35. That's great. Umm, so why didn't these people vote against Bush?

[Gayad]

37. I knew when they first started talking about Iraq it was a mistake

The war was and is a big mistake. Rumsfeld needs to go.

[GOPBasher]

43. Welcome to DU, Gayad!

Hello! :hi:

[freedom_to_read]

52. because the war wasn't the only issue on the table

Bush succeeded in keeping it on the sidelines, and only bringing it up in terms of "terror, terror, terror."

it was up to the democrats to make the war an issue. but Kerry didn't do a good enough job of presenting a coherent foreign policy alternative. (it didn't help that the Presstitute Corps ignored or misquoted virtually everything Kerry said and instead concentrated on SwiftVet Liars and Cheney's gay daughter...)

with his voting record, he needed to be more clear about the war. he did come out against it, late in the day, but wasn't able to show us a clear way out.

:( :( i remember banging my head against the wall all through the summer, saying, "PLEASE Mr. Kerry give us a real plan to get out of Iraq." but he didn't, and it cost him, imho.

[Jose Diablo]

57. Maybe they did n/t

[Algorem]

39. Maybe Bushgang will try blowing up a whole mess of U.S. soldiers,blame

it on "insurgents",and see if they can hype it into more favorable poll numbers from the Amoroncans.

[freedom_to_read]

53. i don't think so

though i wouldn't put it past them to do something this evil, i don't think they see it in their self-interest.

every brave soldier who comes home in a box is bad for Bush. why do you think they are suppressing the real casualty numbers and not allowing caskets to be photographed.

the Viet Nam war was wrong on many, many levels. but it was mounting US casualties that solidified the anti-war effort and brought it out of the "left wing fringe" into the mainstream. the Tet offensive was the real turning point.

of course back then, the press had the balls and brains to find out what was really going on and report it. :(

[LynnTheDem]

56. They've considered doing that before. Blowing up US navy ships & blaming

Cuba. The lists of US dead in the US news would enrage Americans and enable the govt to attack Cuba.

ABC News: US Military Wanted to Provoke War With Cuba

N E W Y O R K, May 1, 2001 In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba.

Code named Operation Northwoods, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.

http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:Wra4ZUJGh0gJ:abcnews.go.com/US/story%3Fid%3D92662%26page%3D1+US+military+wanted+to+provoke+war+with+Cuba&hl=en

Kinda makes a person (with any brain capacity, ie all but rightwingnuts) think, doesn't it...

[freedom_to_read]

60. this is slightly different

your example is a PR stunt to convince a skeptical populace to get into a war. that was accomplished by BushCo with the WMD scare.

[LynnTheDem]

61. I wouldn't call murdering people & blaming another nation a "PR stunt"

but yep it's slightly different...but then it's also quite similiar. Nothing's ever exactly the same in life.

Well, except rightwingnut ignorance & stupidity. That's always the same; deep. :D

[freedom_to_read]

63. yep

and i meant "PR stunt" with a heavy dose of sarcasm.


cheers

[LynnTheDem]

64. bush & Cartel would have said "PR stunt"

and meant it.

Have I mentioned how much I loathe & detest bush & his war criminal warmongering corrupt lying Cartel?

[Ilsa]

41. Now that they are hearing that the Army & NG need to pay

$5,000 to $15,000 sign-up bonuses to keep enlistment up, they fear an eventual draft. Saber-rattling at Iran has them more concerned about troop levels and war. Strange how it didn't bother them that other people's kids were getting killed.

[Deja Q]

45. They're a little late, aren't they? But they voted for * twice as far as

I'm concerned.

[genieroze]

46. For First Time, Most Say Iraq War Was a Mistake?

Maybe they are feeling a draft.

[catmandu57]

47. I railed at people in 2000

that this would happen if the moron* got in. Well, it happened, and we're digging deeper into the shit everyday, but, instead of listening to sane people there we are and there we'll stay.

I told people in 2000 this was coming, now in 2004 I'll tell tou the only thing I can see is total destruction, ww III warming up in the wings, and there's not a damn thing we can do about it.

[0007]

48. You mean all that duct tape and plastic is going to waste?

52 percent said Bush should give Rumsfeld his walking papers. 'Tis hard to believe it is not 97%.

[CTLawGuy]

50. well

"70 percent of Americans think these gains have come at an "unacceptable" cost in military casualties. This led 56 percent to conclude that, given the cost, the conflict there was "not worth fighting" -- an eight-point increase from when the same question was asked this summer, and the first time a decisive majority of people have reached this conclusion. "


Well, good thing we didn't run an anti-war candidate :eyes:

[TankLV]

90. Yean - instead of someone who stuck his finger in the air to see which way

the wind was blowing.

At least he could windsurf well!

ABB was my only reason for voting for that SOB - I thought it would actually help.

What a waste.

Voted for the war - but really didn't - and wouldn't change anything even if he was elected.

Never could come out for equaly rights for gays - left it up to the states to formalize DISCRIMINATION instead!

Disgusting.

[Massachusetts]

65. For those MORONS who

Suddenly realize IraqNam is a mistake.....Eat me!

For all others who took the time to stay informed and educated....Have a Merry Cringle!:hi:

[AliceWonderland]

66. "70 percent of Americans think these gains have come

at an "unacceptable" cost in military casualties."

Good grief, it's still difficult for me to grasp, but the complete expunging of Iraqi casualties is just Orwellian. I see this everyday in the corporate media -- casualities, losses, human costs, are simply measures in terms of American soldiers, nothing more. I just don't know where to file that one. I've seen varying estimates ranging as high as 100,000+ Iraqi civilians dead since freedom was cheerfully handed to that country, and I don't understand how that number can simply be...erased. What is with the American population??

[demo dutch]

68. This makes me crazy! Where were they during the election!

[upperleftedge]

69. Rummy is staying I bet

I don't see Bush getting rid of Rummy. If Rove is his brain, Rummy is his balls. Of course Dick is his dick.

[Pluvious]

73. Boosh can't let Rummy go...

That would be admiting a mistake.

__________________
"Will more people die? You bet!"
-Donald Rumsfeld

[KissMeKate]

71. Even the military is starting to come around

Bush is cutting programs quietly all over the military.



At the navy base up in Great Lakes north of Chicago, its been obvious- hospital staffing (having the short staffed nurses doing the job of appointment setters), notary services, bus services on base, fire and safety inspections and maintenance for military housing, cutting the hours of operations here and there, all over the place, so he can throw money at haliburton.

The navy personnel up here are starting to notice.

The navy housing in Glenview is starting to look like a ghost town,there was a waiting list, but now housing goes empty, as "there isnt enough money" to do the minor maintenence required to keep it up for new families to move in. There are rumors that Bush is going to privatize the housing- immediately pricing the military families out of their homes in the local housing market.

The SCLM , of course, is mum, they are too busy shoving the sensation of the day down our throats.


I noted at a party a couple months ago the cuts in services and how many of the bush administration's people dodged the draft- those used to be "fightin words" among the hooya pro bush military- the reaction? complete silence.

[PapaJoe]

119. Morale?

I was just up at Trippler Army Hedical Center,
the chatter in the waiting rooms was decidedly anti-war.
This opinion was especially pronounced amongst the doctors, nurse and chaplain I conversed with. AND they switched the news in the waiting rooms from Fox to CNN!

[Botany]

72. Welcome to hell.

Iraq will be our Stalingrad except all but the dead will be able to leave when we
finally have to declare victory and cut and run. 150,000 troops to contain 24,000,000 people which at least 18,000,000 of which wants to see us dead and or gone.

Because of 9/11 an unelected nitwit who is carrying out the bidding of his NEOCON
pals invades a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 to look for weapons that
were not there. We should call this what it is, "A war to produce terrorists."

I think ALL who voted for bush should get on a plane and fly over to Iraq for a meet and greet with the locals.

[ClintonTyree]

74. So explain to me again...................

how this POS got re-elected without voter fraud?
I think this is fairly conclusive proof that there was fraud on a major scale. Supposedly, before the election, the American voters loved the "plain spoken" man from Crawford. There is no way in hell a majority of voters think this asshole deserved to be elected for the first time. No way in hell.

[Matilda]

80. It is so interesting that Bush "won" by 51-49%.

Now we see that his approval rating is 49% - could it be that those
winning figures should have been the other way around?

The lowest approval rating for any incumbent president just one
month after an election - nothing's happened in that month to cause
the figures to drop, they weren't real in the first place IMO.

[artemisia1]

83. I'm afraid so..

You have too much confidence in the American Electorate. They really are that stupid. Certainly there were tricks pulled, perhaps even enough to have cost Kerry an Electoral College victory if not the popular vote but that still leaves TENS OF MILLIONS OF DELUDED CULTISTS!

[Anakin Skywalker]

81. Buyers' Remorse?

Too f***ing late!

[Learning2Fly]

82. I seriously doubt

we're leaving Iraq, that is by our own accord. We weren't looking for WMD's or unselfishly liberating the population, or any other excuse this administration spouts. It's about overrunning a vulnerable oil-rich country and maintaining the status quo for American business interests.

[Barkley]

84. The war is not a 'mistake'

it's just plain DUMB!

A mistake is something you so when you don't know any better. But we've had the experience of Vietnam.

Moreover, many people here on the DU who warned about the STUPIDITY of invading Iraq.

Did people listen?

No!

And now that we're stuck in do-do are they listening now?

No!

That's why this war is DUMB!

[TankLV]

92. Not a "mistake" or "dumb" - it is CRIMINAL!

And bush* is a WAR CRIMINAL.

[ckramer]

86. For First Time, Most Found Themselves Idiots

Enjoy it four more years.

[UltraDem]

87. Yeah, but...

Prior to the election, weren't there a bunch of similar polls that led us to believe that the majority of the public thought:
1.) The war was a mistake
2.) Disagreed with Bush's handling of Iraq
3.) Bush was an idiot
4.) Lied about WMD's
5.) etc.

And yet he's still standing, about to take the innaugural address?

I mean, the guys definitely seems immune to polls. I don't get it.

[janetle]

88. It pisses me off ....

when I cannot even deliver Christmas cookies to my good friends without scaring them to death. For 15 years I have delivered unannoucnced my plate of goodies. But this year, their son, my son's buddy, is in Fallujah. I scared them when I rang their door bell last night. This is so wrong--nobody should be terrified when a friend brings Christmas cheer and they are worried I am a uniformed person about to deliver horrible news. This is not right.

[Skittles]

91. GEE and all it took was 1300+ dead soldiers

and 100,000+ dead Iraqi civilians.

[Charles19]

93. Top Neocon Repukes want Rummy Out because he is not...

with the program enough. I doubt he would be ready to start more wars so they want him out for someone more radical, like Wolfowitz.

Be careful what you wish for.

[ashmanonar]

96. unfortunately,

the only person whose opinion seems to matter in this admin is the shrub...and he's never gonna admit that he's done the wrong thing, if he actually realizes that he's done the wrong thing, or thinks that it is...ugh...welcome to hell...er...the us...

[Lizzie Borden]

98. KICK.

:kick:

[Algorem]

99. PBS Newshour host tonight called 1 part "Are the Insurgents Winning?"

can't be good sign for Bushgang

[The_Casual_Observer]

102. The situation is so absurd that I almost want to believe that bush

is really serious about bringing "freedom" to Iraq. At least he and his supporters would be would be a noble fools. However it is impossible to cut him any slack on this. His motives were shitty from the beginning and haven't changed. It is made worse by the fact that he would dare even lie about his aims being noble and worthy. bush is a worthless piece of shit.

[Been Fishing]

100. Why are you really surprised?

It has been fun reading the posted messages.

The DU crowd can all agree that George is a bad boy, stole the election, lied about the war...

But have any of you tried to talk to someone who voted for GW? Have you joined a protest? Have you really done...anything? E-mailed your congress reps? E-mailed George?

Isn't about time?

[The_Casual_Observer]

103. Well GW supporter, lets start with you.

Why do you support that steaming pile of shit?

[Sterling]

110. I can tell that you have not done any of the things you suggest.

Why? Because I have and that is certainly not the tone of someone who took part in the opposition too the war. If you had you would realize that their was an unprecedented movement to stop the war. However there is no opposition, peaceful anyway, that will stop the PNAC agenda.

It will be stopped. Not by us here marching in the streets but on the battlefields of the middle east. We will all pay a heavy price for the ignorance of the Dumbfuckistanis.

[Been Fishing]

112. You're so wrong...

To The_Casual_Observer and Sterling:

Both of you are so wrong.

I also voted against George W. I argued with my family to recognize what lies were used to justify the Iraq war.

I have e-mailed George and I have e-mailed both CA senators and the Republican Congressman many times. I have forwarded e-mails and news items to dem co-workers.

Again, I ask you...what have you done?

[Sterling]

116. I changed my mind.

Now I just think that you are under the impression that GW and co give a fuck about your emails. It is wonderful that you have engaged your family in discussions on the issues I know that is not always an easy thing to do. I just don't think you understand the depth of the problem.

What have I done. Check out the link for starters. Sure I was at some of the largest protest on the east coast. One in DC 3 in NYC. But I don't pretend to think that it made any difference other than to let other people see that there is opposition to the policies which we have no control over.

When you truly get an understanding of what we are trying to stop you realize it is hopeless.

[Been Fishing]

118. And so you just give up?

The whole point of my posting was to indicate that everyone who didn't like the situation could at least try to do something. I did read that many were even trying.

I agree that letters to the editor (if published), e-mails to Senators and Congressmen, and the Prez aren't much, but I'm expressing my opinion. It might encourage others, and make some Republicans mad.

Didn't see your link to follow up on your activities.

[KissMeKate]

114. I dont think protesting works.

I think even with overwhelming historic turnout, we would still be quickly marginalised as "rabble rousers", "anarchists", etc, by the media.

We must gain control of or create our own media.

[Sterling]

117. No protests are necessary.

No they are not the solution and yes media is part of the problem. Action in the street shows the disconnect with what is on TV and what people really think.

And by the way their have been historic turn outs, and they did get media coverage. The problem is that the Democratic party was in no position to take advantage of the movement and in fact undercut it's credibility by distance itself from the anti war movement.

There was no way for the Democrats to win without opposing the war. They simply cannot impress the majority of voters to vote for them by trying to be the GOPs little brother.

[rpannier]

101. A little late

They should have paid better attention earlier. This is NOT a case of better late than never. Too many people have needlessly died on all sides.

[Darranar]

107. A bit late, isn't it?

It does destroy the theory behind being vague and indecisive when it came to the Democratic Party's candidate's stance on Iraq, though....

[ausiedownunderground]

108. Hey,its not over yet - Plenty more muslims to kill!!!

YEEEEEEHAAAAAA - Is Not a Foreign Policy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hraka]

111. The American mainstream are like sheep

They'll follow their leader over a cliff. Even cattle are smart enough to stop at the edge and turn around. I often wonder how I ended up with the ideals I did, when my mom is a bush supporter (makes me cringe). I guess I really wasn't listening.

[KissMeKate]

115. "...wasnt listening"

Thank goodness for that :)

[Vogon_Glory]

113. Pain, It's The Chief Way For Voters To Wise UP

It drives me to the edge of despair to say this, but after the last two elections, I have come to believe that the only way that the American electorate will see what their GOP Lords and Masters have gotten them into is pain, intense pain. Our best arguments, our best logic, our best rhetoric just wasn't able to cut through the torrents of right-wing propaganda.

Let's face it, there just wasn't enough pain this last election for our fellow citizens to wise up. Not enough people saw their boys and girls come home dead or maimed in Gee Dubya's Big Sandy Adventure. Too many voters remained complacent about Republican "leadership" as far as educational reform went. Too many voters chose to ignore what the right-wingers were doing to the environment in favor of NRA propaganda. Not enough voters were willing to connect the links between the Republican-controlled Congress and such matters as deteriorating infrastructure, job outsourcing, the failure to safeguard the old Soviet nuclear stockpile, the conversion of at least two Caribbean countries into drug cartels' offshore bases. Nor does the public want to think about what's happening to their health care--they'd rather listen to Limbaugh verbalize on Senator Hillary Clinton.

The public temperament will only change when enough people hurt enough so that right wing horse droppings no longer scores points in the voters' minds. I hope enough of the electorate realizes just how badly they've been done unto by the Republicans--but too many still seem to be enjoying their Dubya daze.

I hope the Democratic Party is ready to pick up the pieces then.