House panel rejects boost in car mileage rule

[Rose Siding]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A House committee on Wednesday voted against requiring U.S. automakers to ratchet up fuel efficiency to a fleet average of 33 miles per gallon by 2014 from the current 27.5 mpg for passenger cars.
The House Energy and Commerce Committee voted 36 to 10 against the proposal to raise federal mileage requirements, which was offered as an amendment to a broad energy bill.

Democrat Edward Markey of Massachusetts, who sponsored the proposal, said higher fuel standards were needed to reduce oil demand and make the United States less dependent on foreign petroleum suppliers like OPEC.
....
But committee Democrats from Michigan, where the auto industry is based, said Congress can't mandate what type of automobiles Detroit should make.

"People are driving around in big cars, because they like them, because they feel safe," said Democrat John Dingell of Michigan.

Opponents to the amendment said higher mileage requirements would force automakers to produce dangerous, small cars to meet the stronger fuel standard.

"You'll never get your soccer moms and soccer kids in there," said Democrat Bart Stupak of Michigan, referring to the feared subcompact vehicles. "It's not what Americans want."

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=8173495&src=rss/ElectionCoverage

[leftchick]

1. Reminds me of a song...

Money Money Money Moooooney! MONEY!

[smoogatz]

2. Existing hybrid technology

could get damn near 33 mpg out of a medium-sized SUV; better than that out of a minivan. Big benefits to the environment, too. These people are idiots.

[screembloodymurder]

22. Let them eat vinyl!

If we only buy hybrids or high mileage vehicles, we can set the mpg standards. At todays gas prices, I'll be buying a HMV not a Humvee. Toyota and Honda will be kickin ass.

[amandabeech]

28. That's about what the Ford Escape hybrid is supposed to do.

Toyota, Lexus and I don't know who else is going to put hybrid SUVs and minivans on the market ASAP. They see just how popular the Prius is.

I recall reading that Ford is facing a supply bottleneck from a Japanese firm that supplies key parts. If Henry Ford were still alive, he'd be looking to manufacture them himself. I think that Billy Ford sould hire a "channeler" to help him follow his ancestor's ways.

[mbperrin]

3. Wow! With the elimination of the estate tax today, the House

is 2 for 2!!!??

How low can they go? As Forrest says, "Stupid is as stupid does." No shit.

[rodeodance]

8. BushCo/Congress has done absolutely NOTHING to curve comsump-

tion of oil. absolutely nothing.

[MADem]

25. Of COURSE not!!!

If you take away the OIL, you take away the need to do a course correction...er, "spread democracy" to countries that just HAPPEN to have oil....like say, Iran or Venezuela!

He wants us so mad at prices that we'll send our babies off to die for those barrels of pollution and death.

Gee, you have to wonder, we could have taken all this war money, handed it out to American households, and they could've put it towards a hybrid...problem solved!

[RedEarth]

4. Pathetic.......it's scary to think what these coming years will be with

the republicans in charge.

[Tempest]

11. Republicans in charge?

Dingell is a Democrat, and an idiot to boot.

If Americans don't want fuel efficient cars, why is GM in such bad shape?

[havocmom]

23. GM thinks their problem is one of name recognition.

They are putting their logo on everything to improve their image :eyes:

http://money.cnn.com/2005/04/12/Autos/bc.autos.gm.badge.reut/index.htm

Oh yeah, and the writer of an auto review in the LA TIMES dis-ed them so they are not running ads in that paper any more :eyes: :eyes:

There is no way they will admit to being wrong about what Americans want. They think we want what they give us and STILL haven't seen the error of that mind set.

[UCLA Dem]

5. They'd rather fight wars instead of making us self-sufficient...

Who cares about the American kids dying everyday in Iraq. We want our big cars!!!!

:sarcasm:

[mediaman007]

6. When gas is $3.00+, soccer moms will take the team on the city bus...

I think "market forces" will take care of this problem.

[Dover]

17. My sister had a big car for hauling kids. She's going to buy the new

Toyota hybrid, and hopes even more gas efficient cars come out soon because she is footing the bill for this kiddie transportation and said she'll refuse to do it if it gets too costly.

[MADem]

26. Not if it costs two bucks a kid!

Here's hoping they let kids ride free!

[mediaman007]

31. The city bus was sort of a sarcastic thought!

[MADem]

34. Hey, if kids ride free, like they do on some public systems

...you just might be on to something!

[Webster Green]

7. Idiots!

"People are driving around in big cars, because they like them, because they feel safe," said Democrat John Dingell of Michigan.

Checked the bottom line over at General Motors lately, Mr. Dingell?

Idiots! Every day in Congress, their legislation drives more nails into the coffin of the good 'ol USA.

[mediaman007]

30. Let them drive their big vehicles into oblivion...

But when gas gets short, will they pass laws to allow SUV's more access to fuel?

[Mr. Flibble]

9. Who in elected office will NOT welcome the death of our society?

This is asinine, not voting for this standard.

Surely there are other fuels to use? It's simple enough to separate hydrogen molecules from water... amongst other things.

But our greedy nature has to be curtailed. NOW. Or else our country will be ended. Alternatives do exist; it's the power of the oil companies which is why they maintain power and ANY attempt to introduce alternative energy or sane use of energy is quashed.

Hell, if uranium can be enriched and re-used so neatly, the only reason why that concept was made illegal was for pure profiteering. x(

[Rose Siding]

15. The 10 who voted yes

I'm going to guess they were all dems with brains.

[left15]

48. There are other fuels,

but right not they are more expensive to produce that pumping oil out of the ground.

Hydrogen works great in warm climates, but the fuel cells technology dosen't work so great in colder weather.

Also thers the hydrogen. an accident that ruptures the storage tank, would cause a sizable explosion, that would knock out windows etc.

As the oil supply tightens, and technology improves, I'm sure we'll see more ethanol and biodesil vehicles. Most fuel cell folks think hydrogen vehicles are still 10-15 yrs out.

[Tempest]

10. "It's not what Americans want." ???

Then explain why used Toyota Prius' are selling for more than new ones cost.

Then explain why SUV sales are down 32% in the last two months.

Then explain why hybrid cars are flying off the lot and are backordered for months.


Dingell is a dingleberry.

[onenote]

12. fat dumb and happy even at $2.50 a gallon

The fact that the country is taking the skyrocketing gas prices in stride suggests to me that a lot of folks look at their lower mortgages and higher home values and feel like its just an inconvenience. What they don't get is that mortgage rates will inevitably climb and the housing market boom will inevitably be followed by a bust. And when that happens and gas hits $3.00, they're going to wonder why no one did anything about the situation earlier. Idiots.

onenote

[unhappycamper]

13. yoo hoo detroit dickheads

the japanese cleaned our (car) clocks in the 70's with some pretty shitty cars. they now make pretty good cars that get up to 57MPG.

last year i was looking at mustang GTs and 350Zs. this year i am looking at the civic, prius and insight. i suspect i am not alone.

there's a line from an old sister mary elephant routine that applies here:

WAAAAAAAAAAAKKKKKKKKKKKKKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE UUUUPPPPPPPP!!!

[AlCzervik]

14. Heaven forbid mileage goes up a little

it may effect oil companie profits.

[Eloriel]

16. Unbelievable --

this is SO stupid, so self-destructive.

[redqueen]

18. Typical

WE NEED ELECTION REFORM!

[TheFarseer]

19. What's really sad

is 5.5 MPG is not that much. There's no reason an SUV can't get better gas milage, and there's no reason GM can't develop a hybrid to help their average fleet fuel economy. Maybe a little money to implement it in the short run is all. Honestly it will only help our auto manufacturers in the long run. This is exibit A as to why corporations running the country will run it stright into the ground.

[amandabeech]

29. GM has the right to license the technology from Toyota.

GM won't spend much money on development like Ford did, so they won't understand the technology like Ford does. Contrary to popular belief, Ford only licensed some Toyota patents because the Ford-developed devices were very similar to Toyota's and might have caused patent litigation at the time that Ford wanted to bring its hybrid Escape to market.

[Orsino]

20. "Congress can't mandate what type of automobiles Detroit should make"?

I beg to differ. That is exactly what Congress does.

[SnowGoose]

21. I doubt it would have mattered much

here's my reasoning:

SUVs are not included in the CAFE standards (which cover the 'fleet average' of cars a manufacturer sells).

SUV sales are seriously lagging. Leaving out for a moment the fraction of that which is due to people just not getting a new vehicle, that means the proportion of cars sold which are *not* SUVs will rise.

That means the overall fleet average gas mileage will improve, just from that.

I wouldn't expect gas to get cheaper real soon, so it is reasonable to expect the current trends (fewer SUVs purchased) to continue.

As always though, I could just be full of crap.

[TheFarseer]

32. Wait til gas drops a little

it's dropping a bit now. If it gets below $2 for a couple weeks, will all these dipsticks go out and buy up all the SUVs they can afford? I certainly hope we are not that stupid but I could see it happening.

[left15]

44. Snow Goose is right

This does not cover:

SUV
Vans
mini-vans
Trucks
PT-crusiers (officially a truck)

The only vehicles that are covered are:
cars
station wagons.


Infact, it was the original CAFE standards that created a market for SUVs.

Before the CAFE standards, soccer moms were content with driving a station wagon, remember those, but when CAFE came along, car makers couldn't keep station wagons, and keep their CAFE low enough. Since trucks and vans were exempt, the SUV and min-van were born.

A side note, is that the first mini-vans were APVs or all pourpose vehicles, a class of vehicles ment for farms, campuses, and non-highway use. Since they were APVs they did not have to meet the same safety standards as a passerger vehicles.

[doodadem]

24. Dunderheads!

It can only be Detroit Dems voting for this lunacy, where automakers still rule.
I just paid $2.59 a gallon in Clovis, and that's the cheapest around. The pump cut off at $50, because they haven't changed the settings yet to reflect the higher prices. I had to drive my big truck down (one ton dually) because I had to pick up a load of hay. But for the distance we have to go, and the price of gas now, you better believe we save up all kinds of errands to do all on one trip. I made 6 necessary stops. We only drive my truck when we have to haul stuff for the farm.

[Berserker]

27. I'm thinking Dingell

is getting a little kick back for his vote. Why should he care he's making all kinds of money. And that's what it's ALL about for most ALL politicians.

[TexasSissy]

33. They can increase mileage in SUVs! They CAN! Why the f*k don't

they do it!!! I'm so tired of all this rhetoric of freedom from ME oil, when our country doesn't do the simplest and most basic of things, like increasing mileage by just a few miles!

[lostnfound]

35. UFB. Epitaph for planet: Corporate government kills humans dead.

and most everything else with them.

[dbt]

36. Kick!

Your tax dollars at lunch.

[4dsc]

37. When oil peaks ...

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/GA26Dj04.html

It won't be long, I say a couple of years, and these congresspersons will be singing a different tune!! Some day they will realize that oil is a FINITE resource but then it will be too late!!

A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a
jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."


Fertilizer, DVDs, rubber, cheap flights, plastics and metals. None of these things have anything in common, right? Think again. An ingredient in all of them, in one form or another, is oil.

Oil is the precious primer of the world economic engine, making it hum. Oil provides 40% of the world's energy needs, and nearly 90% of all transportation. It's also a building block for many products and goods. Cut supplies of this natural resource and life as we know it could change.

But while some experts say the world runs no risk of running out of oil, others disagree. Sounding the alarm is the Association for the Study of Peak Oil and Gas. Its president is Kjell Aleklett, a physics professor at Sweden's Upsalla University.

" the next 30 years we will find more than 150, maybe 200, but probably not, but 150 billion barrels of oil is roughly what you're going to find," Aleklett said. "And during the same period, we will consume 1,000 . So that means we are now digging deep into the reserves we have at the moment."

[w4rma]

38. Increasing gas milage on cars is VERY POPULAR. The folks who voted against

this are sending our country down the toilet (and against the general populace's wishes, also).

[freestyle]

39. Mileage is about materials, engines, air flow, not size.

Enough of this bullshit about the inability to make fuel efficient large vehicles. The technology exists now with lighter materials, better aerodynamics and hybrid and diesel engines. The auto companies would have to actually apply some of the good ideas that they have resisted for so long. Some examples. VW just brought back the diesel version of the Passat. It is much cleaner burning than the last model. It comes as a wagon, and I think you can even get four wheel drive. Ford now sells a hybrid version of the Escape. Toyota either has or is close to a hybrid Highlander. Honda now sells three hybrids.

The knowledge is there today to dramatically improve mileage. The technology is there also to run cars on stuff other than oil derivatives. The alternative fuels are domestically produced, and biodiesel can even be made from spent grease. Our fast food addiction could at least be good for something.

[doodadem]

40. ANY car

can be retooled to get 60 mpg. ANY car/truck. Auto manufacturers actually have to DUMB down engines to make them less fuel efficient. Just ask the guy who invented the rotary engine, which Mazda bought. When he first made it, it got 60+ mpg. When Mazda put it into production--bingo, 30 mpg.

[uhhuh]

41. Dingell The Dingleberry! Stupid Stupak!

"But committee Democrats from Michigan, where the auto industry is based, said Congress can't mandate what type of automobiles Detroit should make."

That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard!!

Congress passes laws that the auto companies are obliged to follow. They have done so for years.

Do they think emission standards and safety regulations come from the auto makers? ( Well, for these guys, apparently they do. }

If they don't think they are responsible for evironmenal and safety laws, (which don't always go easy on industry) they should get out of congress. That's the place where laws get passed. Sigh.

[AlGore-08.com]

42. Anybody got the roll call for this vote?

eom

[agincourt]

43. I really believe,

The legacy of today's americans will be, "they wasted as much as possible, so that nothing was left over for the future". Next to the ribbon magnets they should have a bumper sticker saying, "we are spending our children's future".

[Danmel]

45. Anyone have a break down of the votes?

You know, it just gets worse and worse. The Estate tax, Cafe standards, the Bankruptcy bill. When are people going to wake up? Any middle class or working class person who voted for these creeps deserves whatever they get. But what about the rest of us? We are just so screwed. I feel sorry for my own kids cause they're inheriting such a mess and the people in government who are supposed to be protecting them are selling them down the river fiscally,in education and environmentally. It is really really sad.

[JerseygirlCT]

46. This is crazy!!!

We've GOT to get out of this knee-jerk reaction to raising standards!

I hope the Michigan DUers will be making many calls to let their reps know just what they think here.

There's no reason that inventiveness and ingenuity can't solve the problem, and make safe cars with enough room for everyone that have high mileage. I refuse to believe it can't be done.

The soccer moms don't necessarily want monster-mobiles. They want safe. They want enough room to cart all the kids to the game. I'm going to assume they also would love not to spend $60 to fill it up each time.

We've got to break the hold the auto industry has on this. Our reliance on foreign oil is literally killing us.

[left15]

47. I would like a cheap sub-compact commuter vehicle

I'm talking 1 seat, 1 door, front wheel drive, manual trans, heat, A/C, cruise control, FM/AM//MP3 player, and enough room for a lunch box.

Like a half sized Chevy Aveo. The current Aveo weighs 2400 lbs and get 35mpg highway, on a 1.6L gas engine. And costs $10k new. Get the weight down to 1400 lbs, use a .75 L engine and you could get close to 70 mgp.

This would be a perfect "commute to work vehicle" for most people.

If you could get the price down to $6000, then you could afford to buy one in addition to your "Family Vehicle"

To get the price down, only make one model in 2 colors, people would customize the snot out of them anyhow.

Right now, hybrids like Honda Insight, which do get 66 mpg cost $20,000 which is a lot to pay for a second commuter car, and too small to fit your whole family in.

With all the child seat laws, (in IL your kid has to ride in one till they are 10!) 3 kids and 2 adults will not fit into a compact car of any kind.