Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Bush Tax Cuts are the Worst Fiscal Policy of Modern Times

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Economy Donate to DU
 
AbortiononDemand Donating Member (51 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 10:25 PM
Original message
Bush Tax Cuts are the Worst Fiscal Policy of Modern Times
Edited on Thu Aug-18-11 10:34 PM by AbortiononDemand
The following thoughts I also posted on my own personal blog. I believe that the Bush tax cuts was terrible fiscal policy and that we still are suffering and chafing under them now, witness the 4 monthg farce of debt ceiling chicken we just went through. If it weren't for the Bush tax cuts this never would have happened as we would not be in such deep deficit.



Ok. So just finished Krugman's The Great Unravelling, a tremendous read. It was mostly a compilation of columns he wrote starting with the late 90s till 2004, he published in 2005. The unravelling he speaks of is US economic fortunes from a time of widely growing prosperity and budget surpluses, to a sudden reversal that left us with budgets as high as the eye can see and higher unemployment-and importantly worse jobs too for even those that found work after the bad recession of 2001-though people like Alan Greenspan remember that as a "very mild recession."

How can such a disparity be? To understand remember the opening lines: "'It was the best of times; it was the worst of time."

Now that I have finished I'm on to another book he wrote, actually prior to Unravelling though as the latter is a compilation not real prior to but concurrent with-some of it was before some of it was after-but in any case the book in question is Fuzzy Math this was not a compilation but a short book he wrote in 2001 about the Bush tax cuts.

Another really valuable read, on pg 20 he puts it best, "an important reason why conservatives want to cut taxes is that they want to keep the federal government hungry; they don't want money readily available to finance new programs or even to maintain old ones."

That is the exact definition of starve the beast. And that is exactly what has happened: huge deficits 'as far as the eye can see' no money for anything else. So the Bush tax cuts are literally responsible for the absurd game of debt ceiling chicken we suffered through for 4 months.

Looking back on the Bush tax cuts there is simply a religious belief about the power of tax cuts among conservatives. Bush's reasons for the tax cuts shifted. Initially he-and to his discredit Alan Greenspan used this incredible argument on Congressional testimony in March 2001-argued that the surpluses gained in the Clinton years needed to be dispersed as quick as possible lest they do untoward harm.

Of course the surplus could also have been put towards social spending after major cuts in discretionary spending during the 90s, but the Bush team demagogued it, "It's your money."

I say demagogue as if it was "our money" most of us didn't get to see much of it.

Once the economy slipped into recession and the surpluses disappeared, then Bush's argument shifted from a need to discharge the surplus to a need to stimulate the economy. In theory(and Krugman explains this in detail in Fuzzy) this was a Keynesian premise. But the kind of tax cuts Bush laid out were not stimulative, much more likely to be saved than spent.

As we noted above there is a religious belief on the part of supply siders on the virtues of tax cuts. As Krugman notes, it doesn't work both ways: there is no one who argues categorically against any tax cuts ever. Though the supply siders try to conceive it this way it is not symmetrical between supply siders and any other economic school demand side or no.

Indeed some tax cuts in certain situations can be highly stimulative as Keynes had argued. Trouble is Bush's tax cuts were so skewed to the rich. The rich by definition always can be counted on to save more than those of low income. This is logical as 2 people, no matter how great the wealth disparity between then will never have a proportionate disparity in needs.

A stimulative tax cut would be targeted at the poor and middle class. A good place to start would be the payroll tax. Believe it or not, 80% of Americans pay the majority of taxes in payroll not income taxes. So cutting here would benefit most Americans and been more stimulative. Of course cutting the payroll tax would lower revenue, but the time we are talking about had the unique problem of what to do with a 4.6 trillion dollar surplus(of course this turned out to be illusionary).

In addition, what would probably be best for the payroll tax is make it progressive, as right now it's wholly regressive-because it's flat, and caps out at $106,000 of income. If you were to remove the cap and tax payroll on a progressive base even now we could raise a great deal of revenue and give people some tax relief. At the time of the surplus has something like this been done, the Bush years would not have been the fiasco they were.


If you want to see this in it's orignal format see http://diaryofarepublicanhater.blogspot.com/2011/08/more-on-bush-tax-cuts.html

There are a lot of great movements out there like Pink Slip Rick and Recall Walker, but to my mind the biggest movement right now should be Expire Bush Tax Cuts as there is no more important issue facing the nation than this terrible impediment to it's fiscal health.

A good companion piece to this is a recent article in Newsweek by Roger Lowenstein

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/08/14/economic-recovery-is-on-the-horizon.html

Refresh | +11 Recommendations Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. Welcome to DU. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
AbortiononDemand Donating Member (51 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. TK appreciate it
I'm happy to be here!
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. Tax Cuts, No Matter Who They Go To, Are A Terrible Stimulus
Edited on Fri Aug-19-11 12:00 AM by Yavin4
A true productive stimulus would go to infrastructure and technology research. This kind of stimulus not only create jobs in the short term. They lead to additional economic benefits.

For example, building airports allows for the creation of new businesses such as Federal Express and UPS, and short term shipping is the backbone of e-commerce companies such as Amazon and E-Bay.

Tax cuts don't provide the long term multiplier effects that infrastructure and new tech research projects do.

The Libertarian argument is that private busineses should buid airports and do research. The problem there is that private businesses will only spend if they can see immediate profits. They're not interested in long term projects. Additionally, they can make more profits by going to other countries and lowering their labor and production costs.

The only way to create a dynamically growing and prosperous economy is through the development of entirely new industries.

I am a Keynesian, but the money has to be spent wisely and productively in order for it to make sense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
AbortiononDemand Donating Member (51 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Certainly agree with you
About infrastructure and research but tax cuts can be stimulative in certain times in certain situations. If you want a stimulus in tax cuts you're better off targeting those of modest income as they will-by necessity spend it. That is stimulative in terms of raising consumer demand.

I would like to see a permanent shift in taxes where the payroll tax was more progressive and the cap is removed. This could both give us more revenue and also put more money in the pockets of most Americans as 4 out of 5 Americans pay most of their taxes on the payroll side not the income side. Again demand side stimulus.

The Bush tax cuts were the worst of all worlds and because of them our government has been "anorexic" for the last 10 years. As only the top 20% or so pay most of their taxes via income taxes most Americans got minimal benefit from it.
Infrastructure and research was something that Clinton was good on with the internet boom of the 90s. I certainly would like to see more. Obama's new job proposals are reportedly going to have some infrastructure for schools, etc.

Let me however turn it around on you a little and ask directly: would you support having the Bush tax cuts expire: for everybody-not just those making 250,000 or more?
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Tax Cuts for the Middle and Lower Class Leads to Short Term Consumption
of goods and services produced overseas. There is no secondary multiplier effect from infrastructure and technology research investments. Another example, say we developed smart roads whereby electric cars can re-power their batteries by going over stretches of roads that can re-charge cars as they drive over them. Think about all of the secondary multiplier effects from that kind of technology.

Now compare that to Bush's rebate checks from 2001. Where are the jobs today that those checks generated?
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
AbortiononDemand Donating Member (51 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Bush's rebate checks were worthless
For one thing he insisted on only sending it to those to tax payers for the previous year. There would be value in sending it to those who hadnt as well. Those checks did little good but it was just political theater mainly. It was a sweetner to all his tax cuts for high income earners and capital gains.

Again all the things you suggest-smart roads, technology, infrastructure I totaly agree with. But Bush's rebate checks are a bad example anyway of what Keynes had in mind by stimulus.

If the payroll tax was made progressive and had it's cap listed this would have a very positive effect macroeconomically. All these people of modest income would have more money to spend.

Again would you support rescinding all(not just the wealthy's) the Bush tax cuts?
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Yes, I Would Rescind All of the Bush Tax Cuts
Edited on Fri Aug-19-11 09:28 AM by Yavin4
As well as cut the military's budget by 2/3 back to $200 billion a year where Clinton had it. I would also pass Medicare for all and aggressively negotiate with health care providers and big pharma on payments for services and drugs.

Finally, I would pass a major stimulus program targeting infrastructure, transportation, energy, the environment, medical research, education, and technology.

By doing all of this, we would be able to stimulate the economy in the short run while paying down on the massive debts and deficits that we've rung up over the past decade.

It's not about giving people an extra $60 to spend on goods made in China. It's about restructuring our entire economy and making it more productive so that there are real jobs with good wages available to everyone.

--On edit--

You cannot consume your way into prosperity. You have to produce something of value.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
AbortiononDemand Donating Member (51 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Ok letting them all expire makes sense
Obama didn't do this though and I doubt any Democrat in Congress will either. Why? Because all the GOP will have to say is,"The Democrats want to raise income taxes on the lowest income by 50%." Which is technically true-from 10 to 15%. They wouldn't give nay context of course like that those in the lowest level of income and most other levels did better with Clinton era rates. Or that these cuts benefited the wealthy with very little for most Americans.

I agree that $60 in someone's pocket is not gonna do much to help anyone's economic position. I also certainly agree with negotaiting with Big Pharma.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
AbortiononDemand Donating Member (51 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Lettiing them all go makes sense but
Might be difficlut poliitclally. This is the brilliance of the Bush budget team 10 years ago. http://diaryofarepublicanhater.blogspot.com/2011/08/still-more-on-bush-tax-cuts.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
7. Here's another good read:
Josh Marshall wrote this about the Bush administration in 2003 for the Washington Monthly, but it's still worth reading.
The Post-Modern President:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2003/0309.marshall.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
AbortiononDemand Donating Member (51 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Appreciate it Martin!
Always appreicate some good further reading.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 01st 2024, 05:52 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Economy Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC