How many times can the market fall on the same issue?

[dickthegrouch]

My broker keeps telling me that the European debt crisis is built in. But today's fall is being blamed on: guess what?

There are some major disparities between what I hear from all sorts of sources. Someone is supposed to be making money from these wholesale market sell offs. I'm certainly not. How does one make money except by selling short and IMHO being part of the problem?

[Common Sense Party]

1. Are you LOSING money?

[dickthegrouch]

2. Isn't everyone?

[Common Sense Party]

3. I don't lose money unless I sell shares for less than I bought them.

My funds may be down in value, but as long as I wait to sell them until they're up above what I bought them for, I don't lose.

[we can do it]

5. True That

[Common Sense Party]

6. Plus, I buy more shares all the time--even MORE shares when the

market is down.

[Pale Blue Dot]

7. Good luck with that. nt

[Common Sense Party]

10. It ain't luck.

[dickthegrouch]

24. You're right I haven't actually lost anything yet

Since I haven't sold. But I am down more than I expected to be a mere 8 months after dipping my toe in again.

The other thing I really don't understand is how some of the investment coaches can say that "if one person is losing another is gaining", I hear that as both things occurring at the same time, and if it's due to short selling, I can sort of understand. But I don't understand what the dampers are to prevent short selling the entire market into worthlessness. The news yesterday was saying market got into bear territory (which meant down by 20% or more from the high) but that's just so much panic fodder for the inexperienced.

Sorry I'm rambling - I'll stop.

<sp>

[golfguru]

4. Read this article to understand depth of European crisis

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/03/opinion/frum-europe-high-stakes/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

[dickthegrouch]

22. That was helpful, thanks /nt

[dickthegrouch]

23. I am dollar cost averaging at the moment

I am in it for the long run, but I had hoped for some incidental profits along the way. However using multiple sources of advice I am overall down about 20% in less than 8 months. However, I looked at bankonyourself.com (advertized on my local CBS 'news' station) and have come to the conclusion that that is just a Ponzi scheme.

I agree that they way the markets are set up currently is just a gamble. By concentrating on the cash holdings and assets plus sales and desire factors I'm still confident I can make back everything, but it really frosts me that it only takes minutes to lose a great deal and months or years for the price to crawl back up again.

[dtexdem]

8. Brokers lie -- simple as that.

Nothing is built in.

[Warpy]

9. As long as they think the peasants will buy the excuse

The market has been overvalued for a very long time. I'm seeing this drop as a very natural thing, no explanations about PIIGS are necessary.

What might be necessary is watching where the big money is going, whether they're hiding in t-bills expecting to pick everything back up in 3-6 months for pennies or if they're moving to offshore stocks or back into commodities. Right now, it looks like money's going out of commodities, too, so my guess it's going into t-bills and waiting for the little guys to panic and drive prices even lower.

I'm not in this game. My stocks are all for income, not leveraging debt using their face value as my net worth, so I'm just sitting on the sidelines and watching. Besides, panic is absolutely the worst reason to make any financial decision.

[Common Sense Party]

11. Which market is overvalued?

[PassingFair]

12. The one you keep buying into.

Averaging your way WAY down.

Good luck.

If I had anything in the market, I'd get it out, STAT.

[tortoise1956]

13. I moved my 401K into bond funds

at the Beginning of August. It has gained very little in value since then, but the funds it was in have dropped about 12%, so I'm not too unhappy.

I don't have a real choice about taking it out of the market entirely, so I figure bonds are the next best thing...

[Common Sense Party]

14. Stocks are significantly undervalued compared to their historical norms.

Good companies aren't going anywhere.

Neither am I.

[A HERETIC I AM]

15. And that attitude is exactly why people lose their ass.

A CommonSenseParty indicated, buying all the way down gets you more shares for less money with each purchase. Selling just because the market takes a dip is what fools do.

"Sell Low, Buy High" never made ANYONE any money.

The problem with your attitude ("If I had any money in the market, I'd get it out, STAT") is that the question must be asked - when would you get back in? At what point would your advice change to "If I had any money, I would invest now"?

When everyone is freaking out and running for the doors, the smart money is going the other way.

Having said all that however, it is only fair to say that some people just simply don't have the stomach for investing. Some prefer to be or are happier being simply savers. And that's fine. But there is very low reward for very low risk. It's always been that way.

[PassingFair]

16. Fine. Just remember that removal of your investments had been possible at any time.

People shouldn't gamble what they can't afford to lose,
and they shouldn't put their life savings or retirement
money into the stock market.

Period.

Unless they are prepared to lose it.

It is gambling.

[A HERETIC I AM]

17. You see...that is exactly the point I was trying to make....

You are in NO POSITION WHATSOEVER to suggest to complete strangers how they should manage their personal savings.

NONE.

If you are not inclined to take risks and think the stock market is gambling then fine...don't buy equities. It's really very simple.

Just put it in your savings account or in a shoe box. That is perfectly fine.

Most people who have ANY brains at all realize that investing has risks and they also understand that it is generally a long term effort.

If you don't have the stomach for the ups and downs of the market then you shouldn't be in it, plain and simple.

But making blanket statements like you've made serve no purpose other than to make YOU feel a little better, as if you have imparted some great, sage investing advice no one had ever thought of before.

You haven't.


Period.

[PassingFair]

18. No more bail outs for Wall Street then. It IS gambling.

"Most people who have ANY brains at all realize that investing has risks..."

I am allowed to voice MY opinion on this message board.

And you are allowed to voice yours.

Notice how I don't tell you what to think.

[A HERETIC I AM]

19. And I didn't tell YOU what to think.....

What I AM telling you, is that your "opinion" regarding investing isn't worth a hill of beans to anyone but yourself, I'm sorry to say.


Look...of course you are entitled to say anything you want on this board. What I am taking issue with here is the impulse by you and the hundreds of DU'rs who share a similar opinion to express it in such a way that would suggest they are giving sound financial advice.

You aren't.

That isn't telling you what to think.

That is telling you that what you think in this regard holds virtually no validity or bearing for complete strangers.

The real danger here is that it is possible that someone, however remote that chance, might actually think what you said (get your money out now) is something they should seriously consider. Everyone is different, and for some certain persons, that might be perfectly sound advice. But you have no idea who those persons might be and making statements like you've made is counterproductive and..well.....pointless.

But you go right ahead and carry on. My give-a-fuck-o-meter re: this thread is pegged.

[PassingFair]

20. Righto, God of the Internets.

Because your opinion is so well regarded around here.

:eyes:

"Everyone is different, and for some certain persons, that might be perfectly sound advice." <----this I agree with.

[A HERETIC I AM]

21. It is? Wow. I had no idea. Thanks! n/t

[craticdemo]

25. Endlessly.

[Warpy]

26. That's actually a bunch of bollocks

The market now is such a completely rigged game that it rises when the banks and hedge funds want it to rise and it falls when they're creating bubbles elsewhere. They know dumber money will always follow rises and falls just a beat too late and this is how they bleed it off.

They come up with bogus reasons as reliably as sportscasters come up with sexual battery imagery to describe winning a game.