More on the Way Gun Flow Works

[mikeb302000]

http://www.bradycenter.org/xshare/pdf/reports/Missing-Guns-Lost-and-Dangerous.pdf">The Brady Campaign published a report about the numbers of guns that go missing directly from the manufacturers.

From 2009 to the middle of 2011, at least 16,485 firearms left gun manufacturer’s inventory without a record of being legally sold. The 16,485 “missing” guns are likely a vast undercount of the total number of guns that disappeared from gun manufacturers in the last two and a half years.

Now, this adds some interesting detail to our theory about gun flow. Many of the guns which end up in criminal hands are never even shipped to FFL gun dealers, they go directly from the manufacturer to the black market.

I call that fascinating. What do you think? Please leave a comment.
http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/">(cross posted at Mikeb302000)

[petronius]

1. There is already a discussion on this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=457146&mesg_id=457146

[mikeb302000]

3. well, I'd like to discuss it over here too.

it follows perfectly with a number of my other posts.

Besides your dismissive comment, do you have any other ideas about the gun flow issue. Are you beginning to understand what I mean when I say I blame lawful gun owners for it?

It breaks down like this.

1. Those who knowingly or ignorantly pass guns to criminals.
2. Those who don't do that personally but defend and support those who do by fighting for the most lax gun laws possible.

Of course that would leave many gun owners who are innocent of these charges due to apathy or because they actually agree with the gun control folks.

So, the truth is, I just say "lawful gun owners are responsible" for brevity's sake.

[petronius]

4. Dismissive? You said "What do you think?" so I pointed you to an existing thread

in which the topic of the OP was under discussion. Why are you complaining about that?

In case you haven't heard, many DUers don't like nonsense from the Guns Forum cluttering up the Latest page; it's a courtesy to those DUers to avoid duplicates or spam wherever possible. And it's not real difficult: Guns moves pretty slowly and posts stay on Page 1 for days or even weeks. It's usually simple to find out if something is already being discussed.

Nothing in your OP necessitates a new thread or a splitting of the conversation; I can't for the life of me figure out why you'd want to "discuss it over here too" when a perfectly good thread about that particular Brady report has been under way for 36+ hours already... :shrug:

[TheCowsCameHome]

5. Is there a one discussion rule here now?

I must have missed that.

[RSillsbee]

8. Yes but the other discussion

doesn't allow him to flog his blog


Unrec for.........wait.......for......it...........dupe thread

[SteveM]

24. So, is it 3 or 4 this time?

[gejohnston]

2. If it came from the ATF and they were investigating, I would think about it.

Since it came from the Brady Campaign, I think it is a lie. The report is poorly written and is clearly a propaganda screed than anything wonky. How are they missing? Legally, frames are the gun, so they could be frames without the rest of the parts.
I clicked on the links in the endnotes only to get a 404 error on each one. If you want to add credibility to your blog, file a FOIA with the ATF and get a copy and put it on your site. If you can find similar statistics from Italian police to see if these companies have similar issues then do a compare and contrast.

Benelli, Bernardelli, Beretta, Breda, Luigi Franchi, Perazzi, Tanfoglio
BTW, Cheney shot a judge with a Perazzi, does that make it Italy's fault?

check it out here.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x457146

[baldguy]

6. Just like all the propaganda that comes from the NRA and the gun manufacturers?

Like all the unfounded accusations that everything that comes from the Brady Campaign is a lie?

[gejohnston]

15. yes just like everything from the Family Research Council is a lie

OK let me clarify, everything that comes from Brady Campaign is bullshit. Helmke lied so much, he even said that Brady was not a gun control organization and that gun manufactures put orange tips on real guns.

[mikeb302000]

22. that's the kind of facile argument that would appeal to you

"Since it came from the Brady Campaign, I think it is a lie." And all the while you accuse others of being biased and closed minded.

[michreject]

7. I won't believe anything

That comes out of that gun grabbing group.

If it wasn't for lies, they wouldn't have any press releases.

[ileus]

10. almost as bad as peta...

[baldguy]

14. Or the NRA...

[gejohnston]

16. Basically but the propaganda

is different.

[ileus]

9. Yes gun makers want to give away product to get people hooked.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

11. I think you are so steadfast in your anti rights zeal you would accept anything

that fits you fetish.

- Intentional duplicate threads are tacky at best. However I expect no better from you.
- Brady material needs to be reviewed skeptically
- If this was a real issue, the BATF would be all over it
- Your assumption that it is a vast undercount is unsupported
- Your assertion that guns go from the manufacturers to the black market is also unsupported

WHat I think is clear...I call you BS on the nonsense you posted today and every day.


Finally your use of the royal "we" is quite amusing

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Glassunion]

13. I'm certain you can cite your assertion? Yes?

You should read the following. It will answer bunches of questions. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=457146&mesg_id=457146

[cleanhippie]

17. Auto Unrec for any post that begins "The Brady Campaign published a report..."

Because even the most dense of the dense know that anything The Brady Campaign, as well as the VPC, puts out is





And you wonder why no one reads your blog?

[jmg257]

18. I think you are right...it is fascinating. What is "our theory" on gun flow? Nt

[rrneck]

19. That answer'll cost ya. Gotta click the blind link. nt

[jmg257]

20. Thanks...Not likely. That too is just lame. nt

[rl6214]

21. Talk about a conspiracy theory

A report from the brady bunch and your blog, what a winning combination...:sarcasm: (just in case I needed it)

Unrec for the usual reasons.

[ileus]

23. I saw 100's of guns for sale yesterday by private citizens...

[Atypical Liberal]

25. This has already been discussed.

There is already a thread here on this report.

This number does not surprise me in the slightest. Also note that the receiver is what constitutes a firearm. So even if you just lose the receiver, you lost a firearm. Given the tens of millions of firearms manufactured every year, it does not surprise me at all that 17,000 firearms got lost during the process. Most probably ended up in employee pockets or scrap bins.

Anyone who has been involved in machine operations like this knows that this quite typical for inventory shrinkage.

[Remmah2]

26. Having worked as a manufacturing engineer.

It is not possible to stamp the serial number on a finished revolver/semi-automatic handgun. The pressure required would damage the finished assembly as well as damage any finish or bluing. Stamping of the frame/slide would have to be done when the part is still separate, unfinished, and un-assembled. I suspect the thieves are stealing parts from inventory and assembling them outside the plant or somewhere off the assembly line (off radar). (Theft of parts and theft of services is not exclusive to the firearms industry.)

It is safe and clear to say that the Brady report, though intentions are good, it is technically incorrect. Finished firearms are simply not stamped after they are completed.

In machines comprised of sub-assemblies, at each level of sub manufacturing there is usually some sort of quality control inspection and inventory record keeping. The suspect thieves had to really work hard to pull off what they did. It is very possible that sub-standard parts that were tagged as scrap were stolen and assembled as sub-standard and illeagle firearms. Theft of scrap is also very common in the manufacturing world.

It'd be interesting to know what HR policies are/were in place concerning hiring, background checks and random drug testing? It'd be interesting to know if criminal charges are filed against the offending employees?

I wonder if the Brady Campaign violated copy write law by using the Kahr picture/ad in their report? Ethics be damned.