Was I a rude toter today?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

I live out in the twigs, well past the sticks. I have also had a historical problem with OHV riders and campers thinking my land is public property. Eventually I put in massive security gates.

This AM early I got a buzz from the gate from someone demanding to be let in. I rode the ATV out to see what was going on. Dept of Fish and Game, CA Dept of Forestry etc will ask for access and it is freely given. I see a work truck pulling a toy hauler. The driver is standing at the call box. He tells me I need to let him in immediately. I tell him it is private property, that *no one* is camping or riding here, and I suggest he get his buddies GPS location so I can help him find them. This is not the first time people have gotten lost and ended up at my door. Instead I get threats including to call the state police to force me to open the gates. I then get off the ATV and walk to the gate. As I do I hear a loud "WTF". He spotted the thigh rig I always wear when outside on the property. I walked up to the gate, told him I was going to call the sheriff if he did not leave immediately and pointed to the currently inoperative camera saying it had captured everything so he had best just go away. He did.

At no time was any motions made towards the holster or inferences given that I enjoy the wholesale slaughter of intruders. Then again he was a city goober so the sight of any weapon must be terrifying. So was I a rude toter or not?

[peacebird]

1. sounds to me like he was the rude one....

[Deep13]

4. +1 What a presumptuous asshole. nt

[SteveM]

2. Folks with too much $ get out in the woods or on the beach, they get stupid.

No, you did the right thing. Anyone who cock-struts around, demanding that which is not his to demand, should be treated with caution.

Gun-controllers, please note: No brandishing, no threats from da Rude Toter.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DrDan]

5. Guess I am missing the point.

You want some kudos for not making "any motions towards the holster or inferences given that I <you> enjoy the wholesale slaughter of intruders"? Is this not always the case?

If praise is sought - congratulations for remaining in control.

[rl6214]

7. "Was I a rude toter today?"

I think that was the question.

Most have given a pretty simple answer so far, no snark required.

[DrDan]

8. no - not a rude toter today

but I think I responded along those lines, did I not?

[rl6214]

12. No, you didn't.

[DrDan]

14. Yes, I did - I congratulated the poster on remaining in control

Are you the forum's designated Sergeant-at-arms? You seem to spend more time critiquing the posts of others than in actual contribution to the thread.

[rl6214]

17. "Guess I am missing the point."

That was your post. I was just helping you remain on topic and get the point.

And isn't what a discussion board like this is all about, critiquing other peoples posts?

[DrDan]

19. well - not doing so well

What was the point? Does this poster actually need some confirmation that his actions were appropriate? Does he think his actions were "rude"?

What is the point of this thread?

Some jerk disrupted his day. He countered appropriately. Why is a group-hug necessary?

just askin' . . .

[rl6214]

25. I don't know why he posted what he did.

I would think most likely he wanted to know what the majority of DUers thought of his actions. Maybe he should have put up a poll.

[iverglas]

86. "most likely he wanted to know what the majority of DUers thought of his actions"

Ha ha.

Maybe he should have posted it somewhere where DUers would actually see it.

:rofl:

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

89. maybe you should...

...google "inappropriate laughter" ;)

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

83. re: "Guess I am missing the point."

Not uncommon on that side of the street. :)

[rl6214]

6. Absolutey not

Your land, your rules.

[Hoyt]

9. No. You can "dress" any way you want on your property. Go into town like that and you are just

another -- sorry can't avoid it -- idiot with a gun or two strapped to his body.

[PavePusher]

11. I will ask again:

Do you intend to provide security for anyone who remains disarmed at your urging?

[friendly_iconoclast]

24. And did you destroy that High Standard you said you used to shoot?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=466651&mesg_id=467010

Or did you add to the proliferation of guns in the hands of rude toters by selling it? Inquiring minds want to know...

[Hoyt]

27. Don't carry it in public or any other weapon. Can you say the same?

[gejohnston]

29. still have the SW 41?

if so, want to sell it?

[Hoyt]

31. That's another guy. I do have a Model 25 that was belong to my dad. Don't carry or shoot it.

Don't need it.

[gejohnston]

33. even if you did need to carry

definitely don't use a family heirloom. It should be kept safely in the safe. The Mauser Hsc I have from the 1970s I shoot it. If I came across one that was German Air Force issue from the 1930s or 1940s, I would not shoot it.
Never took the time to get a CCW. Even if I did, I would get something more modern.

[friendly_iconoclast]

38. To be blunt- Why should we trust *you* with it?

You distrust other gun owners without any real evidence whatsoever, so why shouldn't the same standard apply to you?

Even if you never do anything wrong with it-what's to prevent it from getting stolen, or sold/given to an irresponsible owner if you die or become incapacitated? Dismantle it and take a cutting torch or metal saw to the frame before anything bad happens. If you don't, you're just another advocate of "gun control for thee, but not for me"...

[friendly_iconoclast]

37. You didn't answer the question, so I'd hazard a guess that you still own it.

So why should we trust you?

That also makes you yet another member of the "My guns are fine, it's those peoples' guns you need to worry about" club.

And BTW, I haven't owned a gun in nearly thirty years.

[rl6214]

40. Don't think that was the question.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rl6214]

26. Different post, same old stupid shtick

[PuffedMica]

10. 'call the state police' - Good idea, here let's use my phone

I got the state police on speed dial just for people like you

[ProgressiveProfessor]

16. No cell service where I am...its that far out in the twigs

Guy who built it paid for a land line a long time ago.

We are 30 minutes from the nearest cop shop but response time is normally better than that. Sheriff was here regularly here when the OHV/Camper problems were really bad. The mother of all security gates and finding out that a local off road shop was giving out bad gouge cut down most of the problems. I have not had an asshole issue in months.

[GKirk]

48. Could you explain...

....what OHV means and also what is 'bad gouge'?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

49. OHV = Off highway vehicle

Term California law uses for quads, dirt bikes, dune buggys etc.

Gouge = information. Bad gouge is bad information.

[Hoopla Phil]

54. So there was an off roader shop telling people to go to your place

to tear up the dirt? Oh man! How did you back track to that shop, and did you have to get a lawyer to explain how they could be help financially responsible for all the damage to your property?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

74. It actually went pretty well

In the midst of one of my "leave or get towed" weekends, a visitor told me that the shop had recommended my place. I confirmed it with others.

I went down to the shop (on a street bike in full gear) to dissuade them of continuing to do that. However, dirt riders are a pretty defensive bunch in CA and they were not buying it, accusing me of being an anti dirt riding greenie (their words, not mine). Once it was clear that I was getting no where, I invited the shop owner to my place with an ATV. We rode the limits of the property, reviewed topo and county maps, even had some leftover BBQ and a beer. He said he understood and would stop recommending it and tell others not to come here. He has lived to his word and when I needed to replace my ATV recently, I bought a used one via him.

In person stuff was a bit nastier. Until I put the gates up, unless I was home, I would return to find camp already set up. Harder to get people to move at that point. For a while I would block the entrance with my beater truck, and sometimes that worked, other times it did not. Towing their rigs was effective put caused a great deal of hate and discontent. Local sheriff's commander asked me to stop since they were concerned about violence. The mother of all gates turned out to be the best answer despite the expense and the loss of aesthetics

[GKirk]

59. So OHV is a statewide acronym...

...and I can't fault myself for knowing that one.
But is everyone here laughing at me for not knowing what gouge meant?

[PavePusher]

71. Actually, OHV is a term used nation-wide.

But unless you actually take any kind of interest in the subject, you wouldn't be expected to know that.

Seeing the term "bad gouge" here was a first for me....

[GKirk]

75. Here in Michigan it would be referred to as an ORV...

an Off Road Vehicle. OHV=ORV

[We_Have_A_Problem]

79. OHV to me...

...means OverHead Valve....

[petronius]

72. I'd never heard of "gouge" either, bad or otherwise

And I'd consider "OHV" to be a bit specialized - unless you're involved in the activity, or have paid close attention to wildlands issues (or, in CA, park closure debates) you could easily never encounter it...

:hi:

[iverglas]

87. "Gouge = information. Bad gouge is bad information."

And here I thought you just meant to say "bad ganja".

[AtheistCrusader]

28. Implying?

[iverglas]

32. um

I think the poster was referring to the uninvited guest's threat to call the police, and offering a response to that threat that would not have been the expected one.

[AtheistCrusader]

35. Both parties threatened to call the police.

Having trouble discriminating which one the poster I replied to was referring to, as a possible retort.

One might read that as a retort to someone telling you they are going to call the cops if you don't leave, while they are brandishing a gun. (I am not accusing the OP of brandishing, just an example)

[Hoopla Phil]

13. Rude toter? No. I'd say, prepared home owner.

Hey, that rhymes.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

18. I carry for snakes and other critters out here not confrontation

What I had not considered was his reaction to seeing a gun open carried. It clearly changed his frame of mind. Another person mentioned that while a thigh rig is the right one for riding, it also has an increased intimidation factor. I had not considered that either.

[iverglas]

21. well there don't you just have it

What I had not considered was his reaction to seeing a gun open carried. It clearly changed his frame of mind.

And when it's done in public, it is pretty bloody obviously going to "change the frame of mind" of a lot of people. Including when the situation is reversed, and the toter in question actually is being blatantly rude. A lot of people's frame of mind is going to amount to "guess I'd better back away slowly".

One way to get the respect one might believe one so richly deserves. Undoubtedly the only way, for some people.

[rl6214]

41. "done in public"

But it wasn't done in public. He was on his own land. Not in public.

[Oneka]

43. Conflation

...It's not just for breakfast anymore.:banghead:

[iverglas]

76. fucking duh

And the (desired) reaction would be different if done in public?

What did you imagine my point was, just out of curiosity?

[rl6214]

92. You don't have one most of the time

[ileus]

46. why would a lot of people be in the wrong frame of mind?

Unless you're looking for victims, a holstered gun in public should have a calming effect.


In rural situations it shouldn't alarm anyone.

[Hoopla Phil]

50. "a holstered gun in public should have a calming effect."

And that is exactly what happened in this case.

Just one quibble though. This incident happened on private land, not public.

[iverglas]

77. "a holstered gun in public should have a calming effect"

Yuppers. If some asshole cuts me off in traffic, runs me off the road, and comes up to me as I sit in my wrecked car with my injured passengers and punches me, and informs me he is now going to leave the scene and I'd better not report his licence plate number to the police, yuppers, the holstered gun on his body is sure nuff going to have a calming effect on me. It's going to calm me right into not reporting his licence plate number to the police. Or doing much of anything.

What a total asshole concept this is.

"Have a calming effect". If I may interpret: "Intimidate."

[rl6214]

93. Quite an imagination you have

yuppers

[ObamaFTW2012]

94. What on Earth are you talking about?

How is a man denying access to his private property to someone intent on tearing it up with an offroad vehicle in any way similar to being run off the road by a road rager visibly carrying a firearm and threatening you if you call in his license plate? WTH is wrong with you?

[gravity556]

55. Does that only apply to rude people, iverglas?

I regularly hold the door for folks, let cars merge in heavy traffic, stop by my 85 year old neighbor's apartment a couple times a weeks just to visit or see if she needs anything from the store, hell, I even let people who have few items than me go head in line at the store. How does the addition of a concealed firearms negate the politeness of those other actions? Does saying "please" and "thank you" and "Yes/No Sir" or "Ma'am" suddenly become rude because I have chosen to carry a means of self protection? A means of self protection that, unless you back me into a corner, you will never in your life see or know definitively about?

[iverglas]

78. what a fun game

The statement I was addressing in the post to which you replied, with emphasis for your assistance:

What I had not considered was his reaction to seeing a gun open carried. It clearly changed his frame of mind.

Your question to me now:

How does the addition of a concealed firearms negate the politeness of those other actions?

Let's play Spot The Difference.

[AtheistCrusader]

36. Drop leg holsters are great.

Lets me wear my seat belt comfortably.

[Hoopla Phil]

52. I agree. They are useful but you do need to buy quality.

I thigh holster that has thigh straps that come loose can be a real pain.

[Oneka]

39. You never can tell

when confrontation will find you, whether you like it or not.

I really don't think your actions were up to the high standards of a "rude toter"

Perhaps next time you can , sneer a bit, walk with a swagger, you know, like a cowboy, and maybe spit some tobacco juice on the guys boots.

Or you can just take the "rude toter" express and strap a second gun to your body. It's considered fine "rude toter" form to strap that second gun on you know.

[ileus]

45. Or show up with an AR, AK, or shotgun...real rude toter style.

Nothing sez get off my lawn like a Garand but let's face it they're petty heavy, long, and short on capacity.

[Oneka]

47. OMG

That's it... I'm goin for the "rude toter" Hall of Fame.
This afternoon I"m gonna wander around my yard , with an AR,
an AK, and a shotgun, strapped to my body.

[Hoopla Phil]

53. Would that be considered the Trifecta or the Trinity?

[We_Have_A_Problem]

80. Trinity usually carried....

...pistols and/or submachine guns.

[ileus]

56. All depends on what shotgun you pick out, Saiga? Pump? Coach?

If you don't pick the right one you're not hall of fame material.

[PavePusher]

58. Has to be the coach gun for the win...

http://movieclips.com/kNZ2D-army-of-darkness-movie-this-is-my-boomstick/

[oneshooter]

63. How about one like my M97 with heat shield and 16" bayonet? n/t

[Hoyt]

82. Will you guys quit showing yours to each other and forum members?

[Oneka]

84. If you stop giving us fodder to have fun with,

We may stop having fun with it.}(

[SteveM]

66. Nah, Stevens 311D. The "Miller" gun. The gun for the single mother

living at the end of the lane.

[Oneka]

67. My choices are:

Mossberg 590,, or Iver Johnson XLCR 18" barrel side/side, circa 1935/ish.. leaning toward the coach gun.
Should grant instant HOF access. :evilgrin:

[Oneka]

85. You guys,,,,

I think i'm in....

I went with the coach gun , but i think it was the parading around that put me over the top.

[Hoyt]

88. My money says you've already done that, maybe indoors rather than out.

[Oneka]

90. your money would be lost.

I don't actually own an AK variant, or ever even laid hands on one.

The utility of lugging even one extra long gun around seems kind of pointless to me, except for, having a bit of fun on a gun forum at someone elses expense.

[spin]

15. What you did sounds entirely reasonable to me. (n/t)

[friendly_iconoclast]

23. And to me as well n/t

[petronius]

20. Technically, I think this puts you in the category of the 'hidden criminal'

If you'd threatened, assaulted, or murdered the guy then you'd be a real (overt) criminal - since you in fact did nothing wrong you managed to retain your coveted status as a hidden criminal...

Interesting that the twigs are farther out than the sticks; I'd have thought the opposite. :shrug:

:)

[ileus]

22. You believe in private property and open carried a gun....that's RuDE AmPLifiED!

[Tuesday Afternoon]

34. No, not to my way of looking at it. You did shoot him a little line of bullshit

but, he asked for it :thumbsup:

heh. ;)

city goobers vs rude toters. :P

wonder how long the mods will allows this :D

[ProgressiveProfessor]

51. I do need to replace that camera

Have a potluck here today. Should be able to round up enough willing hands to get it swapped out.

[ileus]

61. replaced it with a 5mp placed about 100 yards back.

With the right software this will allow you to pick up everything and you can zoom in anywhere in the FOV with enough detail to be considered "courtroom" quality.


Well I've got to go....got a 45 minute hike to hang a new trail camera.

[one-eyed fat man]

42. Don't you just love city slickers?

I especially like the ones I come across a half mile onto the place, who almost before you get done saying, "Hello" are saying, "It ain't posted..."

Especially since you came in on their back trail, from where they cut the fence. Then they want to tell you how they ALWAYS...

hunted deer, rabbits, birds, 'coons here

got firewood here

dug ginseng here

picked mushrooms here

dumped their unwanted pets here

They are always resentful that you are a selfish landowner and don't want the refuse from their drunken revelry or the damage their four wheelers cause. I have been half tempted to follow them home with a tractor and race around their lawn with a three bottom plow.

[ileus]

44. I had two ask me one time who owned my land they were riding on.

Didn't take me long to sting up some new barbwire.

[oneshooter]

64. They best be glad they ain't in Texas!

Fence cutting is still a felony here. And if you catch someone doing it to your fence the laws from the 1870's will let you use deadly force the stop them. The laws are still on the books, and are enforcable.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Katya Mullethov]

70. It took a long time to get to the point

Where if I dont feel like buryin' a dead horse or whatever I can just drag it way the fuck off in the back and let the buzzards clean it up . And nobody complains . It's damned liberating too . I haven't run across the resentful attitude , bleeding and screaming at a flat out run , but no resentment detected as of yet .

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

57. No.

You were polite; your visitor was rude.

[Atypical Liberal]

60. You rude toter, you. n/t

[Kennah]

62. I'm still hung up on the threat to call the state police to open the gate

I mean, seriously? Wow, it takes all kinds.

[Paladin]

65. You Were Polite To The Same Degree You Are A Progressive. (n/t)

[friendly_iconoclast]

68. *Do* tell us- What would have been the 'polite' way for a 'progressive' to handle this?

Inquiring minds want to know...

[Katya Mullethov]

69. Open the gate and let em in

Mi casa es su casa . ..... Hey ..Watch out for the septi- oops nevermind .

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

81. 'scuse me.

Direct him toward the Claymores.

:evilgrin: :toast:

[ProgressiveProfessor]

73. Which is to say "very"

- Calmly informed him of the facts
- Offered to help him find his friends in the only way that really works
- Shrugged off his authoritarian bullshit
- Stood firm for the right thing

[AzNick]

91. Quadders... (Don't ask what this dirt rider what he thinks of them)

Or he will go on and on and on...