Guns In Bars: What Could Go Wrong? Umm: This.

[marmar]

Guns In Bars: What Could Go Wrong? Umm: This.
by Abby Zimet




Too Much Irony Even For Us Dept: The Tennessee GOP state representative who sponsored a 2009 bill allowing people to bring handguns into bars was arrested for driving drunk with a loaded gun. Police said Curry Todd - also famous for comparing immigrants to breeding rats - was "almost falling down," which kinda shows in his memorable mugshot. See mugshot. See logical outcome of incredibly stupid law.


http://www.commondreams.org/further/2011/10/12-3

[notadmblnd]

1. I love it when the little deamons they create, come back and bite them in the ass.

[ZombieHorde]

6. What came back to bite him in the ass?

What am I missing here?

[notadmblnd]

8. He pushed a law that made it ok to carry weapons into a bar.

But it is still against the law to carry a weapon when you're drunk. He was drunk, with a loaded weapon and was arrested for drunk driving. I'm making the presumption that he was at a bar drinking at some point. I mean if he was home drinking, he wouldn't be driving.

[gejohnston]

36. like I guessed in one of the earlier threads

that he was having "Bible study" with one of his mistresses and they both got ripped on some Johnny Walker Blue ALEC gave him. Then he decided to try to drive home.

[AtheistCrusader]

47. Why?

Do all drunk drivers start in bars? Maybe he was hungry?

[klook]

2. He looks better with the 'stache (n/t)

[demmiblue]

.

:popcorn:

[demmiblue]

3. Whoops

Dupe!

:rofl:

[Swede]

4. Too many shooters?

:shrug:

[ZombieHorde]

5. I don't get it. Nothing bad happened in the bar with a gun.

A guy drove drunk, and was arrested for it. This has nothing to do with guns, except the guy sponsored a bill to allow guns in bars.

What is the irony here? Drinking while intoxicated and guns in bars are two different subjects.

[DeSwiss]

11. Right. Everyone knows that nothing but good things come.....

...from "ARMED DRUNKS". Right?

Tennessee state Rep. Curry Todd, a lead sponsor of a law allowing handgun carry permit holders to bring guns into bars, has been arrested on charges of drunken driving and possession of a gun while under the influence. Police say in court documents that the Collierville Republican was pulled over in Nashville late Tuesday at 21st Ave. S at Blair Blvd. at about 10:55 p.m.

Todd was coming toward town in a GMC Envoy at about 60 miles per hour in a 40 mph zone and swerving in and out of his lane, according to Metro Police Department spokesman Don Aaron said. Todd allegedly failed a roadside sobriety test and refused to take a breathalyzer. A loaded Smith & Wesson 38 Special was found in a holster stuffed between the driver seat and the center console. The arrest time was 11:15 p.m.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20111012/NEWS03/111012009/TN-lawmaker-who-sponsored-guns-bar-bill-arrested-gun-charges-DUI?odyssey=tab">The Tennessean - MORE

[ZombieHorde]

32. Are you suggesting I claimed "nothing but good things come from armed drunks"? nt

[DrDan]

18. did you read the link? - he was driving drunk WITH A LOADED GUN

[ZombieHorde]

31. Being drunk and having a firearm is not illegal where I live, or if it is, it is not enforced.

Driving drunk is illegal, but having a loaded gun is not.

[AtheistCrusader]

49. Which state, if I may ask?

Most likely, it is not enforced for some reason, at least, in some cases.

[ZombieHorde]

58. Montana. Firearms are extremely common here. Lots of people have them in their vehicles. nt

[DrDan]

53. so obviously you have no problem with a drunk in possession of a loaded gun

YOU are a dedicated gun advocate.

[hack89]

56. I have a bigger problem with a drunk in possession of a working automobile

I understand what the bigger threat to my family is.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

61. amen.

[DrDan]

83. so you cannot have a problem with both?

[hack89]

85. Drunken drivers represent such a greater threat

that I would concentrate 90 percent of my efforts on that problem. Gun violence is rare and concentrated in certain easy to avoid areas. Drunk drivers can be found anywhere at any time. I have teenage kids - in the 10 years I have lived hear not a single kid from the high schools and colleges has been shot. Every year a bunch are killed or maimed due to drunk drivers.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

105. Lucky You

..... obviously you haven't seen a drunk with a gun.

[ZombieHorde]

59. Maybe I am, but I don't even own a gun. nt

[We_Have_A_Problem]

65. Based on the given circumstances....

No. He had a gun holstered in his car. Big fucking deal. Hell, it could easily have been there for quite a long time. I know there's one in my wife's car all the time.

[DrDan]

70. a loaded gun - and he was drunk - a deadly combination

It never fails to amaze me that situations like this can be so easily forgiven by the gun-crowd.

"So what - how could anything go wrong????"

[hack89]

71. Why are you focusing on the lesser threat?

wasn't the fact that he was driving concern you? What was more likely to happen - a fatal shooting or a fatal crash?

[DrDan]

80. not diminishing the drunk driving - just responding to this comment

"He had a gun holstered in his car. Big fucking deal."

[hack89]

81. So treat it like you would drunk driving

punish irresponsible people and leave the responsible ones alone. This is not a reason for more restrictive gun laws unless you also think it is a reason for more restrictive driving laws.

[DrDan]

82. seems to me there is a need for restrictions for both

but all we seem to hear from the NRA and gun-advocates is a focus on less restrictions on guns.

Obviously guns are legally getting into the hands of the irresponsible. That is not a good thing.

[hack89]

84. Gun laws are much more restrictive then driving laws

We don't hear MADD calling for prohibition - we do hear the Brady bunch and VPC calling for absolute bans on semi-automatic rifles and handguns. Why don't we treat them the same?

Obviously alcohol is legally getting into the hands of the irresponsible. That is not a good thing. Since alcohol kills many more people than guns, why don't we fix that problem first?

[DrDan]

86. so we cannot multi-task?

and there is a good reason for not treating guns and autos the same - autos have redeeming qualities.

[hack89]

87. So do guns - so what's your point? nt

[DrDan]

88. I think it was clear

[hack89]

89. Clear but wrong. nt

[AtheistCrusader]

48. Which has fuck-all to do with drinking in bars, while armed.

It is illegal for him to be drunk and in possession of a gun. He didn't get drunk in a fucking bar anyway. If he did, he was still breaking the law. Whats one more law to a jackass that ignores laws?

[Euromutt]

101. But did he at any point take the gun into a bar?

See, if he didn't, and there's no evidence in any linked articles he did, then the whole "guns in bars" thing is just a red herring. In fact, given that the Tennesseean reported the revolver was found in its holster, wedged between the driver's seat and the center console, I'd say it's actually fairly likely that Todd stowed the gun there before he started drinking. If so, he didn't do anything that was previously illegal but now isn't.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ZombieHorde]

30. I hope you find some peace in your life. nt

[1776Forever]

7. Bill just passed in Ohio to allow so called "designated gun totters" to have loaded gun but they

are supposed to NOT drink - Right.....

:silly:

[TheWraith]

13. That law is the same in 43 other states besides Ohio. nt

[Tuesday Afternoon]

15. from toters to totters is just a tee away

:D

[iverglas]

33. ah, but not if you're tee total!

Then you never totter ...

[Tuesday Afternoon]

41. too bad this guy wasn't

looks like he tottered when he should teetered.

maybe he should twitter about it.

[AtheistCrusader]

50. I'm a designated driver for my friends.

Your bullshit about people who don't drink, 'right' not drinking in bars might apply to me, not drinking and driving.

I have also had to leave my firearm in my car, in order to enter a local bar, with my friends, when I was not drinking. Nothing happened, but I (A) do not like being disarmed near drunk people, and (B) do not like leaving my firearm in my car, where it might be stolen.

Just ask our former police chief, Gil Kerlikowske, how leaving guns in cars works.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

66. I walk into bars all the time and dont drink.

Not a friend of Bill W. or anything, just not a huge fan of alcohol.

[lsewpershad]

9. All these creeps will

eating their own shit eventually. Hope it will not be too late for the rest of us.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JVS]

10. LOL

[malaise]

12. Perfect n/t

[JBoy]

14. Why do I suspect this is not his first time driving drunk?

This week.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

16. Dear Abby,

you really stretched like a contortionist to get this headline. All tied up in knots you are.

signed,
Where's The Beef

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ileus]

26. guns kill people...preach it my sister.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ileus]

38. I'm right there with you...POS gun militants

my hate runs deep...

[Katya Mullethov]

54. With ya , EOM

Too bad he didnt run over any kids though . This would have been epic

[IamK]

19. They give people that drink a driver's license, what the difference?

you make laws assuming most people will adhere to them...

[Starboard Tack]

27. Fuck man, brilliant. Great idea. Only one license should be allowed

Imagine a ONE license system. If you drink, the driving and toting part deactivate. If you tote, the drinking or driving part deactivate. It can be done. We have the technology.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

67. Why should one...

...lose the ability to drive because he is carrying a firearm?


Oh yeah, you do realize that regardless of what you do with the license, it wont actually change anyone's behavior, right?

[Starboard Tack]

69. Maybe you're behind on modern technology

There are numerous ways to accomplish this. Firearms could be automatically deactivated while the car is in motion or the driver's blood alcohol level is over the limit. Cars won't start with alcohol fumes around, or loaded guns. It's 2011. We can do anything.

[We_Have_A_Problem]

72. ROFL!

I think you are the one who seems to be behind on technology.

Do, pray tell, how on earth are you going to deactivate an item which is purely mechanical in its operation? Good luck with that. You may have noticed, firearms have no electronics, and no, there is currently no way to do what you're suggesting. Electronics are not exactly designed to take the abuse they would take built into the frame of a firearm.

As far as disabling the car, you may have also noticed there is no way to accurately measure BAC based on ambient air. Requiring the driver to blow into a breathalyzer, besides the added cost, would be impossible to implement nationwide, and relatively easy to disable/bypass.

Lets us consider just one way your fantasy could go wrong in the real world:

Driver of car is not owner of car. I.E., I got too drunk to drive and gave my friend the keys, and my friend is the one armed. Now what do you do? Your method (if possible) would disable my friend's firearm and prevent him from driving. Yeah - THAT doesn't violate about half of the Bill of Rights just on its face...


You're confusing "Hollywood tech" with "real life tech"

You're kinda funny ST...out of touch with reality, but funny.

[Starboard Tack]

79. Thank you. As a wise man once said

"If you can make people laugh, then you are worth your weight in gold." I try not to take life too seriously.
But, that said, I'm sure the techno geeks could come up with gadgetry to make all that happen. Not that I would endorse any of it, but I think it's all possible.

[DeSwiss]

20. K&R

Attend the tale of Curry Todd
His face is flushed and he drives real odd
He packs his Wesson and zips through town
He'll get reelected next time around

http://wonkette.com/454677/allow-guns-in-bars-tennessee-rep-arrested-driving-drunk-with-loaded-gun#IDComment206551296">~mereoblivion

[rl6214]

21. So this is now the fourth thread on this

And as was posted in the other three answer this:

Where does it say he was in a bar

Where does it say he was drinking in a bar

Where does it say he had a gun in a bar.

[iverglas]

29. and I've reported the three after the first

They've all been flushed here from elsewhere and I just don't see why this multiple nonsense should be infliced on this forum, myself; threads can be combined, no?


And as was posted in the other three answer this:
Where does it say he was in a bar
Where does it say he was drinking in a bar
Where does it say he had a gun in a bar.

The real question is: where does it say you have to pretend to be so dumb as not to get that the objection to guns in bars is that drunks should not have guns in public, and this advocate of guns in bars was a drunk with a gun in public ...

[rl6214]

46. I do agree with you here

Either the threads should be combined or the newest threads should be locked and the oldest should kept open. As far as drunks should not have guns in public, I agree with you here also but just cuz this clown was caught drunk in public does not mean one is directly connected with the other.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

62. the gun was found in the car, right? is a person's car considered public?

am I understanding this correctly?

am I to consider my car to be public?

[We_Have_A_Problem]

68. If you have a gun....

Anything you do is legally suspect and you give up any other rights you might possibly have had. Haven't you been paying attention?

[SteveM]

93. Maybe the mods are drunk! Sorry, didn't mean that. nt

[AtheistCrusader]

51. Drunks are prohibited by law from having guns in public.

Where does it say, 'any person in a bar has to drink'?

There is zero correlation between the crime comitted, and the law that the now-criminal advocated for. None at all.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

97. Right

LOL.

And there is zero correlationship between bars and serving alcohol.

No doubt you think there is z
ero relationship between guns and violent crime.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

37. It's the fifth, I think. (n/t)

[Tuesday Afternoon]

39. it is ridiculous. is what it is.

they need to combined.

[ileus]

42. anything gun related gets dumped here....we need our own mod(s)

[Katya Mullethov]

57. The scalpings have proved sufficient

Back to work

[Tuesday Afternoon]

43. why does this one have 24 recs...when none of those questions are answered?

this is bullshit.

[jmg257]

44. Not about the law..it's about the shit floating to the top. nt

[SteveM]

92. They concocted a "victory," and are still celebrating. I guess. nt

[ileus]

25. Why would an adult go in a bar?

[gejohnston]

40. good question

When I lived in walking distance of the NCO club was one thing. These days, better to save money by buying at store, hang out with SO at home and avoid legal hassles getting home, gouging prices, and mean drunks getting a wild hair up their asses.

[AtheistCrusader]

52. Food.

I do it all the time, and I haven't had any alcohol in years.
Booze does not interest me. Food does. (A little too much, technically)

[slackmaster]

55. To get away from kids and dogs

:dunce:

[ZombieHorde]

64. Pay check, socialization, food, and/or drink. nt

[Tuesday Afternoon]

34. is a car considered a public space?

am I missing something here

[gejohnston]

35. I would think

TPM and Common Dreams have more important things to post than some nonsense about some drunk driving politician. At least he was buying American (Smith & Wesson).

[mvccd1000]

45. Revised headline:

"Drunk in possession of a handgun caused no problems with the gun, in spite of opponents' claims that there would be blood in the bars."

[Tuesday Afternoon]

60. this bullshit has 30 recs now?

whatever.

[friendly_iconoclast]

63. It certainly got the rubes all excited. Gave them a diversion from American Idol.

These are the people that think 'nuance' means "the women my uncles just married"...

[DanTex]

73. By "the rubes" I guess you mean "progressives and Democrats"

It's kinda nice when a gun story catches the attention of the general DU membership, rather than just the gun-militant NRA types.

I get that this "guns-in-bars" teabagger who drives drunk with a loaded gun is your kind of fellow. But most progressives and Democrats see him for the nutcase he is.

[gejohnston]

74. miss the point

It is not that he is "our kind of fellow" but rather the intended irony is lost because he was not in a bar. Also lost because he was a greater threat driving.
Teabagger or not, his ass should be in jail, lose his DL. If DUI is a felony there, it will become a federal crime to even have a gun in his house. So be it.
So is "gun militant" a new buzz word? It does sound better than "assault clips" I will give it that.

[DanTex]

75. Actually, the irony is only lost on the NRA crowd.

Most progressives and Democrats have no trouble at all seeing the irony here.

[gejohnston]

76. Oh I don't know

The real irony would be if he just finished speaking at a MADD meeting.

[gejohnston]

77. even more ironic than 76

would be if he was in a bar and someone shot him for whatever reason.
Even better irony would be if he was a "family values" guy would be if he was sitting in a bar with his mistress, and she shoots him when she figured out he was not leaving the wife.

[AtheistCrusader]

90. Why, do they need their eyes checked?

Any causal observer can see the law he pressed for had NOTHING to do with his arrest, since he wasn't drinking in a bar at all.

[friendly_iconoclast]

78. I take it you didn't see my other post about this, where I stated "he should be clanged for this"?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x468389#468450

Obviously not, as no DUer would ever pretend another DUer holds a position that they do not, in fact, hold...

[SteveM]

94. I'm thinking the 30 recs. came from the total DU membership who is anti-gun. nt

[DanTex]

95. LOL. Yeah, that's pretty much what I'd think you'd be thinking. nt

[SteveM]

91. Uh, Marmar, he was picked up D-R-I-V-I-N-G drunk. Then they found a gun.

Under EXISTING law, he could not be in possession of a gun while drunk. Actually, under existing law, he could not DRIVE while drunk.

Your "incredibly stupid law" (your opinion) has no bearing.:eyes: :shrug:

[fightthegoodfightnow]

96. Does the NRA Encourage Drinking and Carrying Guns?

You bet they do!! So much for their 'educational' agenda.

They have OPPOSED every attempt to ban guns from bars.

Had enough America?

[friendly_iconoclast]

98. '"You bet they do!!", he claimed- without providing any evidence whatsoever'

Once again proving the truth of my aphorism:

You don't have to be factually inaccurate to be a gun control advocate- but it helps...

[friendly_iconoclast]

103. "And when asked for evidence, he folded like Superman on laundry day..." n/t

[fightthegoodfightnow]

104. Fact

They have opposed every attempt to deny serving alcohol to anyone carrying a gun

[oneshooter]

106. Do you have the means to prove that? Or are you just pulling that out of your anal orifice? n/t

[friendly_iconoclast]

108. Dude, prohibitionists don't *do* links to NRA sites. Those sites are dangerous for them.

They're afraid that the vengeful spirits of Harlon Carter and Neal Knox will reach through the intertubes and eat their souls...

[friendly_iconoclast]

107. Your replies are totally link-deficient, not to mention citation free

Get back to us when you've come up with something, mmmkay?

[fightthegoodfightnow]

109. Fine

YOU show me one citation from the NRA that shows them opposing guns in bars.

Right.

[Euromutt]

110. You mean those laws containing provisions...

...that if you do carry a gun into an establishment that serves alcohol, you're prohibited from drinking?

[friendly_iconoclast]

111. That ain't the way it works: It's up to *you* to prove your claim, not *me* to prove a negative.

If I might remind you:

"They have OPPOSED every attempt to ban guns from bars."

"They have opposed every attempt to deny serving alcohol to anyone carrying a gun"

When asked more than once for examples, you produced- nothing. Zip. Zilch. Bupkes. And still haven't...

[gejohnston]

99. no they don't

and once again, you miss the point. It has to do with restaurants that serve. You also can not drink (is law enforcement exempt?). Is the NRA even any part of this, or is it local groups? There have always been bars were armed people get drunk. There are several in DC, NYC, and other major cities. They are called cop bars.

[PavePusher]

102. Cite, please. n/t

[Euromutt]

100. Where does it say Todd ever brought the gun into a bar?

As has already been pointed out in this thread, the bill sponsored by Todd allows permit holders to carry in establishments that serve alcohol provided they don't drink while there. Even assuming Todd got sozzled in a bar, there's zero evidence that he was carrying the Smith while he was drinking; it's at least as plausible--and arguably more so given that the gun was found in its holster "stuffed between the driver seat and the center console"--that he'd left the gun in the car while he was drinking.

Note, moreover, that he was arrested for (among other things) being legally under the influence while in possession of a firearm, so that is actually still illegal, and isn't that the relevant question? I mean, when objections are made to bills that permit CCW permit holders to enter establishments that serve alcohol, the implication is that it legalizes carrying a firearm while getting or being inebriated. But what this incident proves, if anything, is that the law does not do that. What would be a cause for concern is if Todd had been busted for a DUI but, even though stumbling drunk, couldn't be arrested for being in possession of a firearm while legally under the influence. But he could, and he was, so what's the problem?