OK - so toters show up to your protest - what do you do?

[jmg257]

You are at an Occupy protest, like in Atlanta, where open-carry of a firearm is apparently legal.

A few zealous 2nd Amendment types show up obviously carrying semi-auto rifles and a handgun or 2, and mix with the protest.
They state the guns are loaded, but they are doing their bit peacefully and otherwise are non-threatening.

Do you:

[Ineeda]

1. Sacramento live feed yesterday...

this exact thing happened. The cops were right on it, checking him out. The woman with the camera talked to the guy with the unloaded .45 on his hip. Both were reasonable and polite and respectful. It turned out that the gun-toter was in favor of the 99%ers and was adding his 2nd Amendment statement. He was certainly not a lunatic, but I admit it made me nervous. Kudos to the camera woman and how she handled it.

[jmg257]

2. I didn't see the feed. How did it appear the other protestors were handling it? nt

[Ineeda]

5. They went about their business but kept a wary eye out.

It seemed to be a non-issue after he was checked out. This happened quietly in the park, not during a march or rally, and there were kids and moms in their nearby 'day-care' area. Just occupiers doing their thing - talking to people, making signs, answering questions.

[ileus]

3. Ask them what they're carrying, how it shoots, reliability, ammo ect.

[CTyankee]

6. That's probably a good idea. He or she will love the attention you shower on them.

They are obviously looking for it...

[ileus]

10. Once you show you're no danger to them, it's easy to discuss common interest.

But just walking up and asking "hey bud, whatcha' carrying there." isn't a real conversation starter. In a crowd like that I recommend a good level III holster...

[iverglas]

59. so ... it's sort of like approaching a feral dog?

[gejohnston]

11. Or maybe

the point was to show that it was like a "we are one". I am willing to bet that there are some former tea types there. If you went up to the typical tea type in the outfit and ask about bailing out banks and corporate welfare, they would be against it. There is a theory that the Kochs created a monster that they could not control. The theory is that populist (more right wing populist) tea groups sprung up were inspired by the astro turf. Some of those people became disillusioned and are among OWS.

[SteveM]

27. Teaparty folks have been at Occupyaustin. And listening. nt

[TheCowsCameHome]

7. In other words,

pretend you're at a gun show instead of a protest?

[ileus]

8. It's always helpful to gather information for my next purchase.

Nothing like asking an actual user of the firearm what they like and dislike about a model. Maybe once the protest is over, hit the range, or go hunting....you never know when you could make a new lifelong friend to hangout with.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CTyankee]

12. I think you are giving them the attention they obviously are looking for.

Not to put too fine a point on it, you are flattering them. I think they want you to take notice. They are making a statement as much as anything else. It might pay off for you...

[TheCowsCameHome]

15. I'm not about to flatter any of them,

but of course you're right - they want you to notice them.

[CTyankee]

32. well, flattering them isn't always a compliment to them...if you know what I mean...

besides, if they get pissed off at some point, they won't be pissed off at you...:evilgrin:

[ProgressiveProfessor]

13. In SoCal, attending a gun show is a form of protest

[Common Sense Party]

19. In other words, be friendly and accepting, and treat others as real

human beings, rather than cartoon caricatures.

[Starboard Tack]

31. Probably the reason not too many do it?

What's friendly about showing up to a party toting a gun? If it walks like a duck it's probably a duck. If it talks like a human, it's probably a cartoon character.

[Common Sense Party]

35. Apparently it's the reason why many on your side of the issue are

incapable of doing it.

My friends show up "toting" all the time. I don't find anything particularly friendly or unfriendly about it.

Also, this wasn't a party. It's a protest.

[Starboard Tack]

36. Your friends do it because they are your friends. Birds of a feather.

We are talking about a peaceful protest rally against corporate greed and political corruption. Not a party for gun lovers. How interesting it is to read the responses on the duplicate thread in GD, where the 2A supporters are not doing so well. Probably why you party with your fellow gunners and not the regular folk.

[gejohnston]

40. mostly because

maybe, they are under the mistaken impression that gun person=right wing black or brown shirt? All of the gunners I know are regular folk.

[Starboard Tack]

48. Regular to you. You are hardly impartial.

Most of us do not hang with toters, believe it or not. I recently went on an 8500 mile road trip through 26 states and visited friends and met new people all over the country. I asked almost everyone that I met what their views were on guns. Most, but not all, are Dems. Above half were completely against handguns and only one, a Texas Dem supported CCW. Ironically, he doesn't own a gun. He, like you, felt it was a Constitutional right. I met nobody who admitted to owning a handgun. Virtually everyone else was OK with long guns for hunting and home protection.

[oneshooter]

51. " You are hardly impartial." And you conceder yourself to be, "impartial"

[Starboard Tack]

55. I'm not claiming to be impartial regarding the toting of handguns.

Why would I claim impartiality about a behavior which I find irrational, perverse and a threat to public safety.

[oneshooter]

60. Why is that? n/t

[FormerDittoHead]

4. I'd worry it was a rent-a-cop, probably with friends, and things are going to get ugly.

Oh, it's not like the cops would pretend they're a supporter only to find out he's a cop:

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/10/marshall_garrett_citibank.php

But legally, we're allowed to stay until the cops come and say, if you don't leave you'll be arrested. But what was unknown to us and to a lot of people that day, including those in Times Square, was that there were undercover cops already there, paid to be disruptive and to be loud. One undercover cop present was louder than the entire group.

How did you know he was an undercover cop?

He arrested one of the protestors outside, and slammed her into the wall, and pushed her back into the bank. We all saw him at the precinct with us. He was laughing with the fellow white shirt cops, telling them about what we'd been saying, basically. It was a bit startling how inside their information was - how they were being paid to go to these protests and put us in situations where we'd be arrested and not be able to leave.

[jeepnstein]

9. They used to call them Company Men

around here. Usually from Pinkertons.

I will admit I've worked a detail or two where I was assigned to blend into the crowd, not as an agent provocateur, but to identify the "leadership" of the crowd. If a protest gets unruly you can usually deflate it by taking out a hand-picked few leaders. In my case it was the Ku Klux Klan. No, I was not armed.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

14. This is a non-issue

If the carry was illegal, the cops would have pinched the person as soon as they spotted him.

OWS is open to all and unstructured. This was a totally foreseeable event and has happened at multiple sites without issue.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

16. +1

was this OP cross - posted to GD? Or am I seeing double?

[Glassunion]

17. Pack up and leave, disgusted, because...

Of the slanted wording of the question in the OP. "zealous 2nd Amendment types"

[jmg257]

18. You don't think these armed protestors would be actively interested or enthusiastic about the 2nd?

Why not??

I know I am, and I don't even protest about it.

[Glassunion]

20. Actively interested or enthusiastic is one thing...

However "zeal" goes beyond into the realm of the extreme or fanatical.

Enthusiastic or Interested:


Zealous:

[jmg257]

22. Now THOSE are good examples! :) I checked "zealous" before posting to ensure it wouldn't

be derogatory....it wasn't meant to be!

zealous <ˈzɛləs>
filled with or inspired by intense enthusiasm or zeal; ardent; fervent
zealously adv
Adj. 1. zealous - marked by active interest and enthusiasm; "an avid sports fan"


Ahh well. Sorry to offend.

[Glassunion]

23. Zealous can be a touchy word...

I use it to describe the Westboro folks...

Avid Sports fan:


Zealous Sports Fan(Fireman Ed):

[jmg257]

24. I think someone showing up openly armed to a protest is more like Ed.

G! U! N! S!

GUNS GUNS GUNS!

[Glassunion]

25. I disagree

[Starboard Tack]

33. I think ZEAL is the right word. You are inferring over zealous.

Bringing loaded weapons to a peaceful political rally is not ZEAL LITE.


zeal (ziːl)
—n
fervent or enthusiastic devotion, often extreme or fanatical in nature, as to a religious movement, political cause, ideal, or aspiration

zeal
n.
Enthusiastic devotion to a cause, ideal, or goal and tireless diligence in its furtherance.

[gravity556]

49. I don't think I'd go to one of those occupy shindigs without a concealed gun.

Crooks, con men, mentally disturbed individuals and trusting, naive protesters are a dangerous mix. I've heard several reports of rapes and assaults as some of the lower tiers of the 99% mix in with the trust fund tiers of the 99%. Wolves among sheep...

[Starboard Tack]

50. Then you would neither belong nor be welcome. But you already knew that, didn't you?

You belong to the 1%. A different 1%, maybe, but still 1%.

[oneshooter]

52. "you would neither belong nor be welcome" according to you

the self proclaimed arbitrator of such things.

How big a hat do you wear, what with all that swelling going on.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[friendly_iconoclast]

56. We seem to be overrun by self-proclaimed sages lately.

(Note: Names have been omitted to protect the clueless)

There's one here now, another one in Europe who runs a personal blog from his UN job, some purported screenwriter that thinks
Grand Theft Auto is a docudrama, and some Caucasian-Canadian who until very recently was a a spokesperson for the African-American
viewpoint on gun control.

Kind of explains why gun control is doing so poorly lately, doesn't it?

[Abin Sur]

21. Shrug. What's the big deal?

[SteveM]

26. I have yet to see a problem with "gun protests"...

I have been to the OccupyAustin rally. Since Texas does not allow open-carry, a few folks wore t-shirts with "gun" themes; "Defend South Austin" (an area of town known for its counter-culture, hippy, punk, minority populations and businesses), "Uncle Sam Wants You" (gun pointing at you), and some other. IIRC, there has been no dangerous incident from any of the open-carry demonstrations around the nation, including one at the U. of Texas where, curiously, concealed-carry advocates wore empty holsters.

Frankly, Occupywallstreet needs as much multi-cultural diversity as possible, and it would be a good thing if what some folks call "gun nuts," or worse, came to see what it was all about. It not only does not bother me, but affords more opportunity to come to agreement.

[rl6214]

28. I am not afraid of someone carrying a gun

or two.

[ileus]

29. who would be and why?

I've never understood being scared of a holstered gun. You know if they're going to be in public that they're a legal gun owner. You know at first glance if it's secured properly. If anything an Openly carried firearm should have a calming effect on people around that person.

[Starboard Tack]

34. " an Openly carried firearm should have a calming effect on people around that person."

Oh, that's how we stop them protesting? Nice. We wouldn't want anyone to get upset about anything, would we?

[TheCowsCameHome]

39. DUzy.

:thumbsup: You win.

[ileus]

37. Hey you left out the chat about equipment option here....

:(

[jmg257]

38. I know...I have to give you credit! Got it from your response! Nt

[ileus]

45. LOL....

To be truthful there's zero way in hell I'd go to any protest open carrying a firearm. But that's just because I hate people looking at me for any reason.

[cleanhippie]

41. Uhm, nothing. Unless they are doing something illegal, whats the problem?

[gejohnston]

42. one thing you forgot to mention

why are they there. How about if you are at Occupy Casper? Granted only 50 people, but that is a lot of people there.

http://trib.com/news/gallery-occupy-casper/collection_f6ece536-f1ea-11e0-bb99-001cc4c03286.html#13
http://www.casperjournal.com/news/article_2fd374df-50fb-53d9-bec7-8b925e9bb5ac.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casper,_Wyoming

[oneshooter]

43. Well there is at least one person here that would grab them and hold them

until he could check their papers and permits. He claims to be able to do this with no problems. And urges others to follow his example.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[jmg257]

44. I thought of him immediately re:the Oakland / AK-47 guy, didn't want to be guilty of a call out".

[oneshooter]

46. Na. Wrong one, no call out so you need to read some more. n/t

[slackmaster]

47. I'd order a pizza

To be delivered.

[Straw Man]

53. What's the opposite of a "toter"?

I guess it would be a "toter-hater." The contracted form would be "tater."

So what happens when a toter shows up at a protest? I guess he or should would be ignored by most but admonished by any taters that happen to be present.

[oneshooter]

57. "retot" Makes as much sense as they do. n/t

[gejohnston]

54. I would offer him or her

a soda, coffee, hot chocolate instead of a beer.

[iverglas]

58. call the police

Duh. It's illegal to carry firearms in public and anybody behaving like this is by definition da thug.

Seems obvious to me. But I guess I just live in a better place.

[gejohnston]

62. In Canada

I would probably do the same, or mention that it would be a good idea to put it away before the cops showed up.
In Florida, would do the latter.
In Wyoming, he would still stand out. This time of the year, I would offer coffee and hot chocolate. Have a conversation.

[Kennah]

61. I'd probably approach, extend my hand, introduce myself, and ask for their name.

I'd start by asking what they were carrying, if I didn't immediately recognize it. Maybe try to engage the conversation based on what I saw.

"Is that a 9mm or .40 S&W SIG? I have a 9mm 226, but my daily carry gun in a Glock 23."

Something like that. My goal would be to invite the question, "You carrying?"

"I do carry, but I'm not carrying. Just curious, do you think it's really a good idea? Washington is an open carry state, but the potential for the police arresting people, maybe using tear gas or OC, or hats and bats is real. I can't really see being armed. Fighting back against police brutality doesn't seem like it's going to serve the movement very well. At any time, we could potentially be in a Gandhi or MLK moment right here."

Here in Washington, open carry of handguns is legal, but open carry of rifles gets into a dicey, gray area. If they were carrying rifles, I'd probably strongly advise that they lock up their rifles.

[RSillsbee]

63. If it's MY protest

There's already at leasty one "toter" there anyway