Police approve Jerusalem rally in lieu of gay pride parade

[Behind the Aegis]

Police approved Thursday the Jerusalem Open House proposal to replace the gay pride parade scheduled for Friday with a rally at the Hebrew University stadium at Givat Ram.

The organizers of the parade proposed the alternative venue in the capital due to the high security alert declared after the shelling in Gaza that killed 19 Palestinians.

Police will deploy 3,000 police officers to secure the rally, instead of the planned 12,000.

Ultra-Orthodox leaders agreed to the compromise proposal following a meeting held Thursday between Jerusalem police commander Ilan Franco and a delegation of ultra-Orthodox leaders headed by Rabbi Yitzhak Tuvia Weiss.


more...

[lumpy]

1. Those Judeo/Christian fundies ain't going to like

this.

[Xeric]

2. Religious bigots get their way

by threatening violence again. Great.

From 365gay.com:

"The rally will be held at a university stadium. The agreement ends more than a week of violent protests by the Haredi sect. Even as religious, gay and police leaders met the Haredi staged a 'beast parade' through the streets and set fire to garbage cans.

On Monday a proposed parade route was worked out that would have taken marchers through a secure complex lined by government office buildings, but it would still have required thousands of police and army with the Haredi threatening their own protest march and reports of death threats against gay leaders."


And here at home we've got assholes supporting the bigots:
http://www.jewishpress.com/page.do/19843/Jerusalem's_Gay_Parade.html

"It is one of the great ironies of modern life that the argument over holding a gay rights parade in the city recognized as our holiest is debated in the language of political democracy. Despite the universally acknowledged religious transcendence of Jerusalem, one hears talk of the “legal right” of individuals to march there in support of a practice condemned by the God of Israel as an abomination and for centuries as unnatural and unholy by virtually the entire civilized world."



Holy city, my ass.

[msongs]

3. germans used to round up jews and put them in houses and barns and....

well you know what the germans did to those jews after they were rounded up.

the germans used the same logic then as SOME jews are using against gays now.

what's the saying about people easing their own inferiority complex by persecuting others?


Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[Karenina]

4. Identification with the oppressor.

[Lurking Dem]

5. Are y'all missing

what did, in fact, stop this parade?

[Karenina]

6. Ya mean, $$$$$???

;-)

[AlienGirl]

7. Security risk...there are lots of people who'd like to bomb the gay Jews

[Behind the Aegis]

9. It's be like a "two for the price of one" sale for Hamas and the others...

[Lurking Dem]

10. Apparently Jews do everything they do for money.

Or something.

[Karenina]

26. Some years ago 200 nazi punks

managed to get a permit to march through town. It cost the city UNTOLD BUNDLES to protect them from the THOUSANDS of citizens here who took to the streets. They had to call in reinforcements from Duisberg to Wiesbaden. :rofl: The app for a permit was denied the next year citing financial concerns for security...

[Karenina]

34. ALL I can say is

there are many too many nutcases in our midst.

[Lurking Dem]

8. ~

high security alert declared after the shelling in Gaza

[Xeric]

15. oh yeah

The shelling of Gaza where 10 children were murdered. More collective punishment. And with the extra bonus of using it as an excuse to deprive gay people of their rights.
Not surprising since the Israeli rightwingers added an ethnic cleanser to their government and were trying to ban the parade until the courts stepped in.
I love subsidizing this with my tax money.

[Lurking Dem]

16. What does this have to do with the OP?

HOWEVER one feels about those people being killed (and it WAS horrible) it was the fact that retaliation was threatened that caused the parade to be cancelled, NOT the religious whackos that TRIED (but were unsuccessful) to get it stopped.

[Xeric]

20. The far right religious whackos

were the ones threatening to plant bombs. The police claimed they couldn't do their job because so many men were on active duty attacking Gaza (and Lebanon before that).
So....kill a few Palestinians when necessary to stop the peace process with the added bonus of stopping the gays from marching as you had promised the rightwing religious parties that make up your coalition. That's how the likudnik neo-cons operate. Or did you think they were any less evil than our neo-cons?

[Behind the Aegis]

22. Did you not read this line?

"The organizers of the parade proposed the alternative venue in the capital due to the high security alert declared after the shelling in Gaza that killed 19 Palestinians."

The organizers changed the venue, NOT because of the ultra-religious wacko Jews, but because of the threats to Israel by Hamas! The police were preparing to deploy 12,000 police to protect the marchers from the right-wingers, but since this newest threat by Hamas, they will need to have those police all over the place. The organizers are smart enough to know that with the heightened security, they would not be safe from the religious wackos because the police would not be in as big a force. So, it wasn't that the ultras got their way because of their violence, they just got their way because of an unfortunate turn of events in Gaza!

[Xeric]

27. "unfortunate turn of events in Gaza"

You mean the IDF's gratuitous attack on Gaza? How convenient. Say what it is.
This gay Jew does NOT support the present Israeli regimes war crimes. Nor do I wish to support a government that includes ethnic cleansers and religious bigots as part of part of its coalition.

[Behind the Aegis]

31. Tinfoil too tight?

Are you suggesting that the attack in Gaza was just a ploy by the ultra-Orthodox to get the venue changed? :eyes:

You can use what ever propaganda you'd like, but the attack in Gaza was not "gratuitous."

And this gay Jew doesn't support anti-Israeli propaganda and lies because it is the "in thing." Nor does he support the ad hominen attacks by other posters that because he doesn't screech about every thing evil about Israel, that somehow this translates as support for war crimes, be they real or imagined!

[Xeric]

33. oh here we go

with the "anti-Israeli propaganda" crap. Because of course ANY criticism of Israel is anti-Israeli propaganda from evil anti-Semites or self-hating Jews!
Oh why can't we just say nice things about Israel? Look over there.... Hamas!

[Behind the Aegis]

35. and yet you still can't admit...

...the VERY simple fact that the venue was changed because of the change in the status of alert for the nation of Israel! Israel did not bow to the pressures of the religious right, but given new circumstances, changes had to be made. It wasn't even made by the GOI, but by the organizers. However, all you can do is go on and on about the ultra-right, but pay no attention to the threat issued by Hamas. Instead, you dismiss it as a "look over there." Perhaps, you should "look over there," because they are also a PROBLEM!

[Xeric]

36. The gay rights group

has had to go to court continuously in order to get the simple right to march. The Israeli government has done everything they can to stop them. They are using every excuse they can think of to satisfy the religious freakazoids in their government. The gay rights groups had no choice but to give in since the police made it clear they were not going to protect them from the pseudo-religious criminals who have rioted for a week now. And you sit there as an apologist for this canard. Unbelievable.

[Behind the Aegis]

38. What is unbelievable is your lack of comprehension of the ACTUAL situation.

You are are right, the gay rights group had to keep going to court, and kept winning! The gay rights group made the switch because of NATIONAL events. The police force now has to be re-dispersed because of an outside threat to the ENTIRE nation, not just one group! Had the event in Gaza not occurred, then 12,000 police would be protecting marchers. Given that force is now 3000, the organizers were wise in changing the venue. Sometimes, the greater good does take precedent. However, you seem to think this is all a big conspiracy. :crazy:

It is just another case of "Israel can do no right."

edit: spelling error

[Xeric]

40. WHY did they have to go to court?

Because the Israeli likudniks (along with their religious reich pals here in the US) did EVERYTHING they could to stop the "abomination". And EVERY time the gay rights people won ANOTHER roadblock was put up. And ANOTHER....

Yes "sometimes, the greater good does take president (sic)". But that's not what happened here. The greater good would have been to STOP BOMBING PEOPLE IN THEIR HOMES and stop the hyper-religious goombahs from rioting and LET GAY PEOPLE MARCH.

But you'd rather be a tool for a government that could care less about peace or gay rights.

[Behind the Aegis]

42. They had to go the same reason gay groups here have to!

Do you think this is unique to Israel? Your constant attacks would seem to indicate so.

You'd rather be a tool for the anti-Israeli forces that spin and warp anything in Israel to be earth-shattering. You are unable/unwilling to see a bigger picture because it might indicate Israel is not the 'root of all evil' in the Middle East or the world! Also, the government that could care less about peace and gay rights, has done more for peace than their counterparts, and they sure as hell have done more for gay rights than most countries, INCLUDING the UNITED STATES.

[Xeric]

44. And there you have it

A total apologetic for Israeli Likudnik policy.

[Behind the Aegis]

45. No. Someone able to understand what is happening.

As opposed to someone who is doing nothing but making personal attacks, old ones at that (you do know that the Likud is no longer in power) based on nothing.

[Xeric]

48. No personal attacks

except from those accusing anyone critical of the Israeli government as "Israel-haters".
And you know very well most of the Likudniks are still in power. Plus the new ethic cleanser faction.

[Behind the Aegis]

51. Sure, OK.

Because "apologist" is such a compliment. :eyes:

[eyl]

67. Hmm

which figures from Likud objected to the march?

[PrgressiveJ]

53. They never had to nt

[PrgressiveJ]

52. They never had to go to court ,(your facts are sooo last year...)

``JERUSALEM - Israel's attorney general refused to ban a gay pride parade in Jerusalem despite threats of violence from ultra-Orthodox Jews, instructing police and gay activists to try to work out a compromise, the police commander said Sunday.``

GET IT :`Israel refuses to ban gay pride parade ` ?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061106/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_gay_pride

[Scurrilous]

37. More on that "unfortunate turn of events"...

A hospital full of tragic stories - all from a single family

<snip>

"The horror simply cannot be put into words - 17 members of a single family killed. And all were sleeping on their mattresses (because not everyone has a bed) when the shelling began.

One can only imagine the horror of those seconds: the panic, the hysteria, the rush to get out of the family home, and then another shell and another one, some falling in the alley near the entrance to the house and hitting the few who survived the initial hell. And then, a few moments of silence before the ambulance sirens filled the air.

It is difficult to say who in the family suffered the more tragic fate - the dead or the wounded. In this macabre and accursed competition, the dead can be represented by Massoud Abdallah al-Otamana, 55, who was killed in all likelihood by the first shell, along with his mother, his wife, his 14-year-old daughter, two of his daughters-in-law and two nephews. The wounded can be represented by Abdallah, Massoud's 9-year-old son, who lost a leg and has been left an orphan, or perhaps by Massoud's brother, Saad, 50, who said yesterday from his hospital bed in Beit Hanun that he would never return to his home again.

Saad's wife, who was pregnant, was killed in the shelling along with three of their sons, two grandsons, two daughters-in-law and his brother, Massoud. "I have nothing to back to Beit Hanun for," he said. "If I go back, I will lose my mind and kill myself. I have another seven small children who are still alive; one of them is in very serious condition and I don't know if he will live or die. I call on the entire world to help me and adopt my children."

The hospital in Beit Hanun is full of tragic stories, and it is hard to believe that they all stem from a single extended family. The children lie in their hospital beds, some with light wounds, and others with missing limbs. Iman, 9, lost her mother and one of her legs; she says that when the shells fell, she was in the family room with her mother, her three sisters and her grandmother. She knows that her mother was killed and that her grandmother is in serious condition a few rooms away from her."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/785644.html

[Behind the Aegis]

39. Take it to IP!

[Xeric]

41. Yes hide the truth somewhere

Because aegis doesn't want to hear it.
It's just an "unfortunate incident".

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Xeric]

46. When in doubt

Accuse anyone critical of Israeli policy as "Israel-haters"!
Just like the folks here in the US who respond to any criticism of the Bushies by calling them "America haters".
So predictable and so sad.

[Behind the Aegis]

47. As predictable as accusing someone who doesn't screech...

...at everything Israeli in a negative light as being an apologist.

[Xeric]

49. Riiiiiight........

Because that's what I've done.. claim everything Israeli is negative.
Next comes the holocaust denier accusation.

I am critical of the present Israeli government. And I've said nothing more negative about it than hundreds here have said about the US government. Yet somehow that makes me an "Israel-hater". Go figure.

[Behind the Aegis]

50. .

:eyes:

Here it is...VERY SIMPLY...

The right-wingers tried to get the parade stopped. They did so through legal and illegal means. They FAILED! Why? Because the Israeli courts said that gays were allowed to march. So what happened? An incident in Gaza raised national security because of threats from Hamas. Therefore, the venue was changed. Was it because of the right-wingers? Not entirely. Was it the GOI? Uh-uh. Was it because of a national, EXTERNAL, threat...that was part of it!!! Did the religious right get what they want? Yes. But it wasn't because of their actions completely, yet YOU seem to think it is the Israeli government responsible. It wasn't the GOI, but I guess that is too difficult for some to understand.

[PrgressiveJ]

54. or `Likudnik~

When in doubt ha ha ha

[Scurrilous]

17. Bingo!

The parade was cancelled because the heightened security alert means Israel no longer has the manpower to protect the parade-goers from the right-wing extremists who have threatened violence.

Spinning this cancellation as the fault of the Palestinians is the ultimate in cynicism.


Sanhedrin’ to police: Protecting gay march sinful

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3325758,00.html

Panel of rabbis issues edict calling on police to refuse orders to secure Jerusalem pride parade. Participating officers are 'criminals, whose sins will be judged by heavenly throne'

<snip>

"A panel of rabbis made a halachic ruling Wednesday demanding police refuse orders to protect the gay pride parade slated to take place in Jerusalem Friday.

The rabbis, who consider themselves a Sanhedrin (supreme religious judicial body) and convene occasionally to discuss current issues, conferred on Friday’s gay pride parade in Jerusalem and concluded: “Any police officer who reveres God’s law will refuse orders and will not participate in any way in protecting those committing abominations in Israel," the rabbis ruled, who consider themselves a Sanhedrin."

[Behind the Aegis]

19. As well as threats by Hamas...

...you must have missed that.

[Xeric]

21. Who controls Jerusalem?

The Israeli gov. or Hamas?
Are you an apologist for the present Israeli rightwing government?
They are neither gay friendly nor looking for peace. They are war criminals.

[Behind the Aegis]

23. Did you not understand the article?

Because of the threat of retaliation by Hamas the ENTIRE country is under alert. The organizers are smart enough to know that having the parade would leave them vulnerable to the ultra-Orthodox protesters, as well as an attack by Hamas. The parade was all set to go until the incident claiming the lives of 19 innocent civilians. The ultra-Orthodox had NOTHING to do with the change of venue!

[Lurking Dem]

25. Here BtA

[Xeric]

28. Is that part of the Apartheid wall? n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

32. propaganda!

[PrgressiveJ]

56. If the Israeli Gov. is not `gay Friendly`WHY did they REFUSE to

Ban the Parade?

Olmerts daughter would be surprised her dad was not gay friendly.Lots of army commanders,Colonols and Generals and their boyfriends probably would disagree too.

[Scurrilous]

60. Colonols?

QueerJustice

Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 191
Location: Canada
Posted: Oct 20, 2006 23:35 Post subject:

The most surprising thing that struck me in Israel was the almost total lack of homophobia within Tel Aviv.My friends all were stlill integral parts of their families,still served in the army (lots of them were Colonols,Generals etc..) and some reached the highest echelons of the army.
The gay Boys were all good Zionists ...and.....there is no cuter guy than a Jewish Israeli boy in uniform....
_________________

http://prosemiteundercover.phpbbnow.com/viewtopic.php?p=10030&highlight=#10030

Learn to spell (and punctuate)...

[PrgressiveJ]

61. English aint everyones 1st language,

But I doubt you speak Hebrew,French,Russian,Dutch or German,Yiddish,Ladino or Arabic.

[PrgressiveJ]

63. Guess the spelt it wrong here too,

http://www.friedmanarchives.com/China/Page2/pages/Colonol%20Flanders.htm

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060902003012AAhuuWI

http://www.halfbakery.com/user/colonol_20sanders

http://www.absoluteanime.com/fullmetal_alchemist/mustang.htm

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=colonol&btnG=Search&meta= Results 1 - 10 of about 15,400 for colonol. (0.05 seconds

[Scurrilous]

64. I'm putting you on ignore now...

...see you in your next incarnation (which by my reckoning will be your sixth).

[PrgressiveJ]

65. Guess you can`t explain to moi ,if I am ignored . nt

[PrgressiveJ]

62. Interesting site that ,thanks bud.

You a member there?

[msmcghee]

66. They always disappear . .

. . as soon as the questions get too tough. But, I guess that's an answer too.

[PrgressiveJ]

55. No need to spin it as `the fault of the Palestinians`

HAMAS (leaders of the Palestinians ) would rather kill Gay guys any day of the week.Wheras Israel celebrates Gay diversity .Go to Tel-Aviv gay area and then report back to us.Or the gay Army brigades.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Scurrilous]

11. Kahanists take credit:

<snip>

"Kahane supporters take credit for compromise on gay pride parade: Some 200 right-wing activists gathered in Jerusalem on Thursday evening for a commemoration of rabbi Meir Kahane who was killed 16 years ago.

Activists linked his memorial to the gay pride parade and praised Yishai Schlissel, who stabbed a man at the gay pride parade in Jerusalem last year and was sentenced to 12 years in jail.

"Thanks to him today large protests exist today and we saw how they (gay groups) are retreating more and more. That's what rabbi Kahane taught us – self-sacrifice," right-wing activist Noam Fderman said."

<snip>

"Federman said: "The abomination parade, that's not the first time it is taking place, suddenly this year there is a wave of protest that wasn't. The public is awakening. I asked myself what happened this year. The answer: Self-sacrifice. A year ago, one Jew, Yishai Schlissel of Kiryat Sefer stood up. No one heard of him. He stabbed the homosexuals."

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3326400,00.html

[AlienGirl]

12. Sounds like they are sharing credit with Hamas

[Scurrilous]

18. Hamas took credit for the parade cancellation?

I missed that...gotta link?

Thanks! :thumbsup:

[Behind the Aegis]

24. Did she say "take?" NOPE! She said "shared."

In essence, that would be correct.

[PrgressiveJ]

57. Hamas wouldn`t ban Gay Parades,they would just kill the Gays nt

[Lurking Dem]

13. They also take credit for the sun rising in the east.

Doesn't mean they aren't full of shit.

[Trillo]

14. What does the following phrase mean?

Despite the universally acknowledged religious transcendence of Jerusalem

I simply do not understand it.

[David__77]

29. It means that they're theocratic fascists.

They think that it does not belong to civil society, but rather to "god," ie, to them.

[David__77]

30. This is great disappointment.

I think that a gay rights political demonstration might be a better opening in this city though. And it should definitely commence in the streets of the city. I just hope the marchers are well-armed, covertly, of course.

[PrgressiveJ]

59. Gay Jews in Israel are well armed,they are in the Army,on the other hand

The Ultra Orthodox (including the Anti Zionist sects , such as The Natura Karta) are not in the Army and therefore not well armed.