Truckloads of key rings en route to Denver

[jefferson_dem]

Word is that SEIU is bringing truckloads of key rings and keys to Denver to distribute to <..> conventioneers, in accord with the suggestion we’ve all been hearing that they come equipped to honor the (Who Knows How Many) Homes of Young Johnny and the Lovely Cindy McCranky. But a poster on one of my listservs came up with a killer idea to take it one step further: Every time McCranky’s name is mentioned, everyone in the auditorium jangles their keys!

It would make great TV, so the media would love it. The public would love it, and be reminded of who the McCrankys are. And Young Johnny and his cohorts would go nuts– a bit of payback for 2004, when the GOP cleaned the Dems’ oh-so-respectable convention clock.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/08/24/fox-news-gets-a-little-freaked-out-by-convention-protesters/

[Barack_America]

1. Such a bad idea.

The freepers are immediately going to turn this into making fun of McCain's PTSD cues.

This is extremely concerning.

[DJ13]

2. I think thats why they are using plastic keys

No sound.

[PM7nj]

60. That's just the picture.

It doesn't say anything about what kind of keys they actually are.

[jefferson_dem]

3. The fact that McCondo couldn't remember how many homes has nothing to do with PTSD.

Using keyrings as props has nothing to do with taunting McCondo about any PTSD he might suffer from.

Respectfully, fuck the freepers...and their candidate.

[goodgd_yall]

28. It doesn't have to do with his houses

---at least I didn't think so. But now that you mention it, I guess that's what the explanation would be, even if someone is using it as a PTSD symbol.

[MH1]

4. But purple heart band-aids were ok?

I don't get the problem with the keys; I don't see how it is directly connected to his military service.

Unless they are going to say that all his inability to remember stuff that normal people know, is due to PTSD; in that case, I'm sorry, but I don't want him anywhere near the red button.

[Joe the Revelator]

25. How does one silly childish idea excuse another?

this will backfire. Bank on that.

[WinkyDink]

30. Who is now in the WH? Some backfire, the purple band-aids, huh?

[Joe the Revelator]

33. You're not listening. THIS will backfire...

I'm not talking about the purple bandaids. To pretend that republicans do not have a corner on being "patriotic" is silly. When middle America sees this framed as a bunch of liberals trying to fuck with an old mans feelings of fear after being a POW, its not going to be good news for us. If you can't see that happening, then you should not be allowed to discuss politics in a serious manner.

[Barack_America]

100. +1...

Thousand.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

125. Owning 8 houses is a symptom of PTSD?

:wtf:

There is something here I am just not grasping.

[nadinbrzezinski]

450. keys, prison cell... and yes the freepers might make that connection

but WTF is right

[proud2BlibKansan]

134. HE WON'T BE THERE

Good grief. How can he be bothered by a sound he won't be there to hear? Get over your faux outrage. Unless you want to lose yet another election, this is a great idea.

[Joe the Revelator]

145. He doesn't have to be there. Optics are important.....

the visual of thousands of democrats shaking fisher price keys everytime McCain's name is mentioned is enough. Bookmark this thread and feel free to throw this in my face if I'm wrong.

But I won't be.

[proud2BlibKansan]

155. No one will think of anything but his multiple houses

Most Americans don't even know about this key phobia McCain has. I had never heard of it until I read it in this thread. Keys are associated with locks on HOUSES. And if anyone other than idiot freepers make a big deal out of this, you can throw it in my face.

[Joe the Revelator]

182. By the time the MSM and Team McCain is done gesticulating over this, everyone will know about the

phobia.

Look, if this was just about anything else I'd be on board, but come on, you have to see the chance that this is going to blow up. Its right there in front of you. So whats the reward?

[proud2BlibKansan]

194. No it isn't going to blow up

McCain has pulled the POW card one time too many.

keys = houses

[Joe the Revelator]

197. Thats not a wager I'm willing to make over something that gives us zero reward

aside from our selfish yearning for revenge.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

283. Thank you Wolsh, for some sanity in this thread.

Bad Idea from the get go.

[greguganus]

465. We're talking about the MEDIA. Which way do you think will get the media more attention? n/t

[verges]

161. No. It's a bunch

of liberal's trying to fuck with an old man because he's filthy rich and has so many homes he can't even keep track of them; while at the same time maintaining that an author who only owns one house is an elitist.

[Phx_Dem]

201. This has nothing to do with PTSD.

And if the Republicans want to claim it does, they should do that. The media is already talking about how McCain is overusing the POW card, so let them keep doing it. The number of houses McBush's rich wife bought has nothing to do with POW, PTSD or Vietnam. That's ridiculous.

[DainBramaged]

240. OK, we'll just go about being bland and not respond to Mr. Rich guy.

You can't stop this, it is going ahead. Thanks for your concern, now turn the key.

[Joe the Revelator]

244. You don't have to be bland, just pick a way thats not going to hand McCain exactly what he wants

Its almost like some of you are proud of the fact that you're risking the election.

[Name removed]

289. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Joe the Revelator]

294. Oh christ.

[DainBramaged]

325. Don't bring Jesus into this, he didn't have plastic back in the day.

[Barack_America]

356. Please explain to me how trying to prevent giving McCain a free pass to mention...

"POW" every day for the next two months makes one a McCain "sympathizer"?

You're playing right into his wettest of wet dreams and I'm sorry that you don't recognize that.

[DainBramaged]

367. Another player from the peanut gallery

your concerns are duly noted, now I posted the DNC phone number, give hm a call, I'm sure they'll listen.

[Barack_America]

373. And your eagerness to turn the GE into a "Dems hate POWs" sideshow is also duly noted. nt

[DainBramaged]

378. Goodbye, go to the convention and make a scene.

I'm sure FAUX news would LOVE to talk to you.

[Life Long Dem]

379. sympathy = free pass

[Barack_America]

383. Yes. It is the Dems who would give McCain that free pass with this stunt who are the sympathizers nt

[Life Long Dem]

430. Does the free pass come during, after,...

or before this stunt? Before is probably unlikely. That would be giving McSame the free pass right now and I don't see it within the free pass he always gets anyway. Who is paying attention to MSM and believes them? From what I hear, the numbers are high who don't believe MSM.

[Agent William]

245. Well I can see that happening.

I see your point. But I think/hope that members of the media will immediately put this into the correct context. I just hope the DNC is passing out plastic key rings, I think that would be more appropriate. Perhaps if the cons try and spin this as you say they will, it itself will backfire and the American people will finally realize that McLame is truly overplaying his POW experience....un-fucking likely. :banghead:

[Darth_Ole]

460. You're right, Wolsh...

Backfire writ large...

If the convention viewers take one thing away at the end of this week, I want it to be that Obama gave a kick-ass, uplifting speech on the 45th anniversary of the "I Have a Dream" speech.

I don't want it to be toy keyrings.

[WinkyDink]

469. I should not be ALLOWED? Look, I didn't know anything about this "keys jangling"

PTSD. So shoot me for not keeping up with every detail of McCain's captivity.

[DainBramaged]

239. (sigh) sure, we'll just let McSenile go. No problem, thanks for your concern.

[Cassandra]

5. Indeed...

they'll say that the jangling will remind him of his jailers jangling their keys and before you know it, he'll be jumping into a bomber and going to drop a few on Iran, all by himself.

[jefferson_dem]

10. The cold, hard truth is that anyone who freaks out over the sound of jangling keys...

does not need to be anywhere near the Oval Office, other than as a visitor.

[Barack_America]

44. The cold, hard truth is that a drunken, born again, mediocre Yalie should have never been elected..

And yet was twice. (or at least was awarded two presidencies)

Point being, the cold, hard truth doesn't always predominate.

[alphafemale]

463. Exactly. This would highlight how unstable he is.

Why would the McCain camp want this to get wide publicity?

[johnaries]

7. Everyone needs to be reminded of his PTSD cues. What if

he was on a diplomatic mission and one of his cues kicked in? Instant International Incident. PTSD is sad and serious, but it is also very dangerous for the POTUS to be suffering from it.

[FrenchieCat]

8. It's not like he's going to be there to get jumpy or anything.

Chill out. This is a great idea.

it's not good to alway be worried about what the Republicans are going to say.

You don't think purple bandaids were bad? This ain't no worse.

[Barack_America]

51. Yes, because they've run such a respectable campaign. And they never mention his POW status.

I'm sorry to be so sarcastic, but c'mon, you KNOW they're going to try to frame this as a anti-POW thing.

[cali]

459. I think the purple bandaids were disgusting. And this is precisely the same.

pathetic. I have nothing but contempt for this stupidity. And it has jackshit to do with what the pukes say.

[bluestateguy]

14. Then we should make them a deal

When the RNC and Bush apologize for the purple bandaids at the RNC convention in 2004, we can talk about withdrawing the plastic keys.

[Naturyl]

88. They don't make "deals."

The purple band-aids were extremely wrong. But if we do this, it will be painted as an attempt to psychologically torture McCain using his POW experiences, and we will lose a TON of support. Whether or not that is the intent of the stunt does not matter in the slightest. All that matters is how it will be painted, and the instant McCain's campaign sees anyone doing this, they are going to play the POW card - and it will work.

Seriously, just a dozen people seen doing this could cost us plenty. This is a very, very bad idea. We've already had known and tombstoned Freeper trolls in here promoting and encouraging it in other threads. Why do you think they would do that?

[ljm2002]

111. Hogwash...

...it's a great idea.

Everyone in the USA will recognize the symbolism: a bunch of keys, making fun of a guy who can't remember how many houses he and the missus own.

Everyone in the USA will recognize it as payback for the purple heart bandages.

And if some ridiculous talking heads / freepers / Republics want to tie it to his military service, let them try. It has nothing to do with that.

Gawd I get tired of the handwringing sissies.

Politics is a blood sport. Time our side went for the jugular for a change.

[Naturyl]

138. Mmm-hmm.

And if some ridiculous talking heads / freepers / Republics want to tie it to his military service, let them try.

They will try, they will succeed, and we will lose.

Since when has the American voter suddenly acquired critical thinking skills? Am I still on DU here? The media will frame it as insensitive, mean-spirited, and vicious, and the public will eat it up. Haven't you been paying attention? McCain has dodged every attack so far by simply repeating "POW" - and he has yet to be substantially called on it. You figure that's going to suddenly stop?

This idea is a recipe for disaster. There's a difference between courage and stupidity.

[DainBramaged]

241. Just stop now while you still have self-respect, ok?

[Naturyl]

267. Nope, that's a non-starter.

By definition, your opinion has no bearing on my self-respect.

And I won't stop until people drop this trainwreck of an idea or my headache gets too bad.

Looks like it's gonna be the latter.

[Name removed]

292. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Joe the Revelator]

297. Then what exactly are you trying to prove?

[DainBramaged]

328. You are the one on stage, keep it up, this is hilarious.

[DainBramaged]

332. I can prove the world is round and the sun will rise in the morning

what exactly are you truing to prove. Oh wait, you already tried.

Next.

[Joe the Revelator]

336. You make me laugh

I've honestly never seen a weaker person be more sure of himself.

[DainBramaged]

350. Oh wait, you just said you knew me, awwww thanks

I am not the weak one here, you and your friend are the ones who can't accept criticism, nor want to admit that only FREEPERS care about this issue. Now if you want to test your strength, get some soap, I am sure you need it.

[Naturyl]

324. Mmm-hmm. And I think thou art a little too fired up about this idea.

Intimations of Freeperhood cut both ways, you know - except for the fact that there WAS a confirmed and tombstoned Freeper in here promoting this idea a couple days ago. Why do you figure a Freeper might be doing that?

Don't bother replying, though. You're going on ignore for calling Wolsh a "McSame sympathizer" and implying the same about me. I don't know Wolsh, but I don't need to know him to see that he is a good Democrat trying to stop other Democrats from making what could be an election-changing mistake.

You could have just disagreed... but that wasn't enough for you. You had to go to personal attacks. Unfortunate.

[DainBramaged]

331. Personal attacks?, Ya know, when Freepers run out of ideas, that is exactly what they resort to here

so keep it up, I can handle all of the bullshit you try to throw at my windows.

Since you don't want ME to question both of YOU about your true intentions, you think I am resorting to personal attacks in disagreeing with you?

That is too funny.

[Krakowiak]

335. thanks for fighting this

I have the same suspicion as you about the origin of this idea or the intentions of *some* of its supporters. It is too perfectly set up to backfire on the democrats. Of course, now... despite being a donor and a member since 03, I will get branded as a "McCain sympathizer" due to my post count.

anyway, I appreciate your (and a few others) dogged opposition to this terrible idea.. and I wanted to thank you for persisting in calling attention to the negative aspects of it.

[Naturyl]

Thanks. It's no fun and apparently (but still surprisingly) we are outnumbered...

Some things just have to be done. When you see your friends about to run off a cliff, you have to shout at them to stop even if they don't want to hear it.

[WinkyDink]

18. What? Is he the Manchurian Candidate who reacts to "cues"?

[jaxx]

21. What is this PTSD cues for McCain?

[Barack_America]

34. This sound of keys reportedly triggers his PTSD...

Due to listening to the keys of his jailers as they came to get him for interrogation/torture sessions.

[Chloroplast]

I think the keys are a bit sketchy.

But out of curiosity, how did we come to learn of this trigger?

[jefferson_dem]

86. There was a mention in his medical report.

"McCain has himself described having an adverse reaction to the sound of jangling keys, which reminds him of his Vietnam jailers."

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/05/22/mccain/

[jaxx]

85. I don't get it.

Why do keys at our convention affect McC?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

127. And who reported that?

Also, who was the source of that information?

[Joe the Revelator]

151. John McCain.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

191. Well, quite frankly...

I find that rather convenient. Perhaps something devised by The Rovian Braintrust to blunt a powerful image being used against him.

Does it sound like I distrust that bit of news? I do. I have learned to distrust even the time of day, if it comes from a repuke scumbag, over the last eight years. And McCain has been caught in enough lies already that he qualifies as a repuke scumbag.

[Joe the Revelator]

199. Even if that is true, why hand them exactly what they want?

We have to be smarter then that.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

218. I respectfully disagree.

What you argue is the same old vapid, non-aggressive tactics that have doomed the dems to defeat for as long as I can remember. It is the tactics that are embodied in Ron Fournier's column today, that the selection of Biden is somehow a sign of weakness in Obama.

Fear the pukes and their reactions to anything we do? Hell, we are well past that time. We know exactly what their reactions will be if we canceled Obama's acceptance speech and had the Beijing Olympic Spectacular people stage a four hour tribute to McIncontinent. Their reaction would not be substantively different from a lot of keyrings.

I am sorry, but I think we need to move beyond worrying about hurting repuke feelings. I also reiterate: the PTSD key cue thing sounds just a bit too timely and convenient.

[Joe the Revelator]

225. Your post deserves a much longer response then I'm going to give it

because I'm getting pressed on time, but do know this, the Key Cue thing was in his medical records he released months ago.

[proud2BlibKansan]

128. Unless he is actually there in Denver,

how will these keys trigger his PTSD?

[Barack_America]

181. I didn't say the keys would trigger his PTSD. I said they mock they mock the thing that does...

At least that is how the GOP will frame it. Then they get a pass for the next two months to talk about how the Democrats insulted John McCain's POW status. Oh and, by the way, did you know that John McCain is a POW? Let me tell you the story of his amazing heroism...

:eyes:

That's just not what I want to the narrative to be.

[proud2BlibKansan]

189. And everyone watching the convention on TV will think

HOUSES

The GOP can try to frame it anyway they want. But this POW dog don't hunt no more.

[Krakowiak]

Do you trust the media on this?

Because the Media has Barack Obama's best interest at heart and they would *never* use this to create a Reverend Wright like storm against him, right?

[proud2BlibKansan]

467. Do you honestly believe the media will tell America McCain has PTSD issues?

:rofl:

[PM7nj]

22. Can someone clue me in on this?

Keys bother him? I've never heard that before.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

89. They remind him of his Vietnamese captors.

Whenever they would approach his cell, the cell keys would jangle.

This is a really dumb idea for SEIU, in my opinion.

[AlCzervik]

198. Yes! If this is the kind of stuff we have to resort to then we are no better than them.

and we are and we can do better. Would Obama and Biden like this idea, i bet they would not.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

312. I agree with you 100% eom

[d_b]

26. only that's not what it is

however, those purple band aids were an attack on our 2004 nominee's service.

F em.

[Naturyl]

95. Doesn't matter what it is.

It only matters how it will be painted.

And this will be painted in a way that will kill us.

[d_b]

257. funny

how that whole painting thing, true or not, only seems to work for Republicans. I don't remember the media crying when the Repubs were wearing band aids.

Maybe you're right. I'll admit that it makes me worry, too. Not because of the McLame camp, but because of the media whores saying "oh geez, this is so heartless" when they damn well know that that isn't the intent.

I'm just sick of the double standards.

[DainBramaged]

243. Exactly, fuck 'em, and everyone who wants to remain passive to Roves bullshit.

[Joe the Revelator]

246. There is a difference between remaining passive and playing into Roves hands

You're smart enough to see that.

[DainBramaged]

293. You still here?

[Joe the Revelator]

303. I was here long before you got here

spouting your bullshit. I remember you during the primaries. It would not surprise me at all if you were so strongly behind this because you KNOW that I'm right about what will happen.

[DainBramaged]

360. Oh BTW, long before I was here? I protest. LOLOL

I am very concerned you may be concerned about McSenile's (supposed) PTSD because your concern is for McSenile and not the DNC, DU, Or Obama/Biden.

THAT is my concern.

[Joe the Revelator]

363. Au contraire, you know as well as I do that I'm probably overly concerned with

Obama/Biden being elected in november. Unlike you, i'm on my record with the support of the ticket.

[DainBramaged]

371. Nice try kid, nice try. You are reaching now, what did you say, '82?

If that's the case, I could be your Grandpa. And I don't give a rat's ass about plastic keys.

[Name removed]

376. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

382. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KittyWampus]

57. If McCain has any PTSD cues, the American public needs to know about them

[alcibiades_mystery]

61. Imagine the GOPers: Oh, we can't possibly wear those purple heart bandaids!

No, that would be so wrong!

You know why they never even thought that? Because they're not fucking weak.

[Joe the Revelator]

67. It has to do with knowing the GOP's narrative and NOT handing them votes

There are a million other props to choose from,this is a bad one to try.

[Barack_America]

77. Yeah, it's amazing that people have watched McCain's campaign play the "he's a POW" card...

Over and over again and yet don't see how this stunt totally plays into their hands.

Yeah, we've got some real experts in political strategy here. :eyes:

[Joe the Revelator]

83. Some people here are going to "revenge" themselves right into 4 years of McCain

[Naturyl]

101. Exactly... I can scarcely believe the SEIU...

...Would be doing something this blatantly foolish.

Why not just hand them the election on a silver platter? Between PUMA and this... I don' even want to say how I feel about the wisdom (or lack thereof) shown in some segments of this party.

[DainBramaged]

249. So are you two part of a tag team to save McSame from the DU?

[Joe the Revelator]

254. This wasn't a DU idea. It was orignally a freeper idea. See the original thread where

the OP was TS'd for being a freeper. Why this has taken off I can't tell you, but I'm trying to save us from ourselves. SEIU needs to see what they're doing before its too late.

[DainBramaged]

300. You need a lifejacket to save yourself here.

[Joe the Revelator]

308. Can you refute me? Was this idea NOT introduced to DU by a confirmed,TS'd freeper?

You think he just all of a sudden decided to help us out?

[DainBramaged]

342. (sigh) If you are SO worked up abut this, I'll ask one more time

why are you trying to change things here?

Go to the DNC website, get the phone numbers,a and call them? Y are just being silly now, or so attention starved at 1:44 in the morning that you resort to games on DU.


http://www.democrats.org/

Mailing Address:
Democratic National Committee
430 S. Capitol St. SE
Washington, DC 20003

Main Phone Number:
202-863-8000
(For questions about contributions, please call 877-336-7200)

[ContinentalOp]

361. Really? Where's the link?

[Joe the Revelator]

369. It was a locked and TSd thread from this weekend. I didn't save it because i didn't think it would

gain this kind of traction. Sorry, but I assure you thats how it went down.

[Naturyl]

394. Looky here (anyone who is interested)

Here's one thread where McCain's reaction to jangling keys is discussed - and amazingly, some DU'ers are suggesting the key-jangling idea already. What's missing from this OP? Yep, that would be any mention of the keys being related to the house gaffe. So we (and any interested media) can see that this was never entirely about the houses:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6666480

And here is the thread started by the tombstoned troll OP:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=6691513

If anyone has been following this thread and they care, give both links a quick read - but especially the second one.

[Naturyl]

272. At this point, I'm trying to save the Democratic ticket...

...From the portion of DU, Kos, and wherever else that thinks this is a good idea.

Dirty job, but somebody's gotta do it.

[DainBramaged]

299. You aren't even good at it, you'd be better off saving leftovers

[alcibiades_mystery]

171. No, it has to do with not letting them create the narrative

That's why you're weak. You think the narrative they create is the default win position. You don't understand what's really going on in each of these cases: a death struggle. You give up the game before we even fight. It's pathetic.

[Joe the Revelator]

178. Like i said, lets do it from the podium....I don't think shaking fisher price keys at a jumbo screen

is going to win the election, but it sure as hell could lose it.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

281. No, It's not about being weak, It's a childish stunt with no upside...

If you want to remind people that McCain is clueless, fine...But this stunt is BAD. Just like the purple band-aids.

It should be run by the Bosses first! (Obama/Biden)

[DainBramaged]

247. No it's because YOU want us to be weak and stop because we may hurt Grandpa, what crap

I cannot believe you are trying to pull this shit.

[Joe the Revelator]

255. You have no idea what you're talking about, and apparently can't see past the nose on your face...

on how this will play out. Go ahead, keep being a reactionary. I'm sure you'll look real cool shaking your fisher price keys at a TV screen tough guy.

[DainBramaged]

296. I need a mirror to see my nose, I don't have stalks for eyes.

[Life Long Dem]

317. the use of plastic is not meant to offend McSame. The keys are an aid to find McSame's house

The candidate who doesn't know where his mortgage payment is, and the same guy who will look you in the eye and tell you he relates to you and the foreclosure crisis. Another words McSame doesn't have the concern with money the same way we do. He doesn't know how many houses he has. Let's see if we found the house.

[Naturyl]

358. Yes, we know this.

All of us here know it's supposed to be about the houses. But what we're trying to warn people about is the strong possibility that the MSM will make it about something else - McCain's POW experiences. McCain has said that jangling keys remind him of his POW days. Can you not see the talking points the the RW will send to the MSM?

[ContinentalOp]

144. Thank you!

I get so sick of the weak ass bullshit.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

"You know why they never even thought that" Not because they are not weak...

..It's because they are stupid.

I thought we were smarter than that?

This is not strong, it is childish and foolish.

Ask Obama if you are not sure.

[snowbear]

68. Kristi .... Your concern for the freeper community is duly noted.

.
.
.

[Barack_America]

72. *snort*

Yeah, my concern for Barack Obama losing this election due to some juvenile stunt TOTALLY makes me a freeper.

That's why I spent hundreds of hours volunteering for Obama's primary campaign too.

:rofl:

[snowbear]

133. Kristi..

.
.



Why would anyone at DU call another DU'er a freeper?!?!?!

I simply suggested that no one here gives a damn what they think.

NO ONE is questioning you.

.. People here are on edge!

[goodgd_yall]

74. Your nonconcern for winning back the White House is also duly noted n/t

[Renew Deal]

76. Kristi is legit

If nothing else, Kristi is a legit DUer.

[Barack_America]

92. .

:hug:

Though I hope that I'm at least *something* else... ;)

[Joe the Revelator]

78. The fact that YOU are more concerned with playing little kid games instead of making smart....

political decisions hurts your credibility.

[jefferson_dem]

87. Oh come on now.

Kristi is the real deal loyal DUer. Don't go there.

[Barack_America]

96. .

Thanks for the back-up.

:hug:

[RagAss]

97. How else would you represent 7 houses?

[Barack_America]

104. A something monopoly houses on it...

A button that says, "Dude, Where's My House?".

Anything except a keyring with keys on it.

Or, better yet, nothing at all. Why must we play their childish games?

[RagAss]

152. Read this ....then tell me about plastic keys....

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/politics/national/stories/082408dnpolobamaad.69811d3.html

[Lucinda]

103. Beyond stupid isn't it?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

107. It's just the muliple houses!

[Barack_America]

122. If you want to have to explain that from now until November, fine.

But I'd rather the election focus on things other than "Did Barack Obama and the Democratic Party insult John McCain's POW status" for the next two months.

[demwing]

119. Fuck'em

they're going to bitch and whine anyway. Who gives a damn?

[Joe the Revelator]

123. People who want to win this election "give a damn"

[demwing]

170. Well, I want Obama to win this election

AND I don't give a damn what Freepers think. I certainly don't want to adapt my behavior based on what Freepers will or will not appreciate. Fuck'em!

[Joe the Revelator]

185. Its not the freepers you have to worry about

I'm sure you've noticed that we having some trouble getting all democrats on board. That means we have to rely on independents more so then normal. Lets not let some stupid prop ploy give them stomach cramps over supporting our guy.

[demwing]

229. But I responded to a comment about Freepers

It goes without saying - even though you've placed me here, where I have to say it - that we should care about what Indies think, and about what diverse elements of the Democratic party think. But once again, that's not the message to which I responded.

Now I'm done defending myself against what you think I said. Go back and read post #1, by Kristi1696. Perhaps this will all make more sense :)

[muryan]

124. Oh, like the bandaids in 2004?

Fuck em, its about time we found the line and started walking the edge. I've heard for the last 8 years that the democrats can't protect this country because they have no balls, well guess what...we might just find them.

[Joe the Revelator]

130. Lets do it from the podium.

Our problem in 2004 was that OUR CANDIDATES went soft. We need to let Obama, Biden and co. take it to them from the podium, not with child toys that are going to blow up in our face.

[DainBramaged]

253. (from the podium, I can hear it) No MORE HOUSES, NO MORE HOUSES

Get a life, your concern for Gramps McSenile is duly noted, and duly noted as being too overly concerned for HIS well being instead of the well being of the Democratic party and the election of Obama/Biden.

[Joe the Revelator]

266. Do you even know what you're talking about? Let me ask you

What is the actual electorial reward gained from shaking little plastic keys at the mention of McCain's name. I can sure as hell tell you the downside.

[Name removed]

304. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Joe the Revelator]

313. So you can't answer my question. Thanks for playing.

[DainBramaged]

346. Bye Bye

sorry to have spoiled your fun here.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

343. Thank you for the work you are doing on this thread.

I can't believe some of the stupid posts I have read, up-thread.

People, Wolsh is correct, there is no upside to this childish prank.

This election is serious.

Is that so hard to understand?

[Krakowiak]

375. x 2 thank you

Thank you Wolsh, Kristi, and all who are pointing out just what an awful idea this is, despite taking considerable abuse from a few members. This seems like outright sabotage to me. Why keys? Why not something clearly connected to houses, like say.... HOUSES?!!! Pass out the monopoly houses...

Ask yourself? Why does it have to be keys? ("Because we already ordered the keys is NOT an acceptable answer")

[eridani]

462. Agreed. Monopoly houses would be much better

Why not contact SEIU and DNC?

[Barack_America]

353. Yes, seriously. Thank you. nt

[DainBramaged]

238. (sigh) of course, let's just let it drop, shall we?

[roguevalley]

476. I hate this. anything that brings sympathy to McCain or solidifies

the wobblies who might not vote for him unless something like this pisses them off is worrisome.

[tigereye]

6. certainly more polite than making fun of Kerry's Purple Heart last Rep con. -

that was a low, low point.


Odd how such childlike images seem to have an effect.... sometimes I despise the world of political imagery.

[Joe the Revelator]

9. Stupid idea

[stlsaxman]

53. Yes- you've said this repeatedly.

[Joe the Revelator]

56. and I'll keep saying it. As long as we're hell bent on shooting ourselves in the foot...

there might as well be a few of us with some brain cells sounding out a warning.

[KittyWampus]

69. So You Think The GOP/Mediawhores Will Bring Up McCain's Post Traumatic Stress Disorder?

if you do, you're a fool.

[Joe the Revelator]

71. THEY DON'T HAVE TO

All Team McCain has to say is " Look at these America hating Leftists, making fun of John McCain's time spent as a pow" and the MSM will eat it up without the PTSD mention. You know that I'm right here. The fact that McCain has already himself ADMITTED to the sound of jangling keys bothering him pretty much blows up your little theory.

[proud2BlibKansan]

147. Oh come on, how do keys remind anyone of a POW??

Every single person who sees those keys will think of one thing - his houses. And if you really think our librul media will tell America that McCain freaks out over the sound of jingling keys, then you don't know our media.

This will be a hot topic in freeperville. That's it. And who cares what those morans say?

[Joe the Revelator]

158. Because the information is already out there. McCain has already said...

that the sounds of keys remind him of his jailers. This is on the record, clear as day. So now, when we hold up our little fisher price key set when his name is mentioned, and everyone sees us feeling all full of ourselves at our great idea, McCains camp is going to say "Look at them liberals! Making fun of John's POW status! I knew they hated America, didn't you Jimmy Iowa?? How About you Sally Ohio?"

[proud2BlibKansan]

167. Jimmy Iowa and Sally Ohio hang out at freeperville

This may be on the record about his PTSD, but the majority of Americans don't know. They will see keys and think "oh yeah, Martha, remember when McCain didn't even know how many houses he owns?"

[Joe the Revelator]

175. Are you just being purposefully dense when it comes to Team McCain and the MSM framing a story?

Serious question.

[proud2BlibKansan]

204. And you don't seem to understand the average American isn't listening to the GOP

and their bullshit anymore.

You are making far too big of a deal out of a clever little trick that probably won't get any TV air time anyway. And if it does, no one will be associating keys with 'he was a POW!'

[Joe the Revelator]

220. Now you're just off in wishful dreaming world

If you're not going to face the harsh realities that come with discussing politics, then maybe its time to stop taking you seriously.


Have fun with your toys.

[proud2BlibKansan]

230. You can take me any way you want to take me

I think you are making far too big a deal out of this.

[Joe the Revelator]

233. I guess we'll see

[sakura]

242. If the media or McCain's surrogates do come out and mention McCain's PTSD

it only makes McCain look bad. Right now the majority of Americans don't know he still supposedly has PTSD. Right now they see him as a war hero. The picture that is always shown of the POW McCain is of him lying in a bed, like any injured soldier. There are no pictures in ads of him in a bamboo cage, half-clothed, emaciated and covered with filth. A deliberate choice has been made here, as his handlers have worked hard to paint a very specific picture of the man. They call him a POW, but the imagery they have released is of a war hero.

If the McCain camp brings up the jangling keys problem, the public will see McCain not as a war hero, but as a veteran suffering from post traumatic stress disorder-- someone whose mental health is not all it should be. They will draw the conclusion that someone who becomes shell-shocked by the sound of jangling keys-- someone who reverts to memories of horrific mistreatment, who temporarily loses himself in these reveries-- most definitely should not have his finger on the button. The McCain camp is screwed if they bring this up, and screwed if the media brings it up.

[symbolman]

180. Well Hello Captain Bummer!

Enjoying the High road are we?

We are going to grind these scumbags under our Heels and have fun doing it.. You wanna grouse and continue the pussy side of the Dem party, go stand on the porch with the other Bummer Babies, okay?

All these moralists throwing shit at those of us with the Guts to fight back make me Sick.

Look for my Sig line graphic soon to be on Cafe Press and available for consumption, hope a million people wear this design til the election, as we show the Workd what a Hypocritical Elitist McCainOpoly really IS..

[Joe the Revelator]

187. Yeah, when I see a bunch of grown ass people shaking kids toys at a screen....

the first thing I think of is "guts". Let the folks at the podium hit the scumbags where it hurts. The job of the audience is to not fuck everything up.

[symbolman]

452. Yeah

Youre the life of the party, you are..

It's a Convention, they've got a Killer Candidate, VP to be, McCain is a bumbling looping tool and WE want to MAKE FUN of the lying bastard, and Have Fun.

Like I said, go out on the porch, the folks in the Kitchen want to Get Down..

[Naturyl]

221. Get it straight, this isn't about "high road" or any of that...

I couldn't care less about the "high road." I love your sig graphic and I'm all for hitting McCain with stuff like that all day. It's a good idea, it's effective, and it packs a punch.

The key-jangling business, on the other hand, is a BAD idea and Wolsh, myself, and others have repeatedly explained why. This isn't about being afraid to hit hard. It's about having the sense not to shoot ourselves in the foot.

[Naturyl]

105. The will bring it up if and wehn it is USEFUL to McCain to do so.

Right now, it isn't. But if we do this, that will change real fast.

The only foolishness I see is an inability to understand how this could so easily explode in our faces.

[MadHound]

11. You know, we disparaged the freepers and conservatives when they did this kind of stunt

With their Band-aids and such. It would be nice if we could continue to act in an adult and mature fashion now. Many won't make the connection, and even if they do it's still going to look more than strange to see a large group of adults shaking toddler toys around.

[BlooInBloo]

12. Ah - but they don't actually jingle, so the PSTD cover isn't an issue.

[jenmito]

13. Today Jesse Jackson, Jr. was on CNN saying McCain has to go through all of his keys to see which one

would lock the door of the house he was leaving, proving he's out of touch with the working class. I guess he was setting the table for this stunt. :)

[ClayZ]

15. I like it!

I like drum circles! Shake, Rattle, and Barrack & ROLL

K

[midnight]

16. I like this symbolism. Now who is that D.U. who thought this

up?

[flamingdem]

298. It's not original and the joke is already old, the point best made by Obama nt

[Marrah_G]

470. I think it was Tombstoned freeper

[Colobo]

17. This is wrong. Very wrong and nasty.

[WinkyDink]

24. How is it "nasty" to mock McCain's wealth?

[Colobo]

36. It's both a reference to his houses and his PTSD. As nasty as the '04 band-aid thing from the GOP.

[goodgd_yall]

42. If it's about his houses

I'd be OK with it, EXCEPT that I'm sure at least FOX News will report that it is a nasty reference to McCain's PTSD. It's better not to do it, even if the intention (to bring attention to his multiple homes) is the intended one.

[ContinentalOp]

157. As long as they're talking about his crippling PTSD...

then MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

[kath]

415. Exactamundo - if he has crippling PTSD, he is NOT fit to be President.

period.

[Naturyl]

455. He doesn't have to have "crippling PTSD"...

To have a bad memory of jangling keys.

M$M will dismiss the PTSD issue. Will they dismiss the right wing argument that Dems mock POWs?

You know the answer to that.

[Naturyl]

223. So you're admitting right here, IN PUBLIC...

That part of the intent WOULD be to mock McCain's POW experiences regarding jangling keys?

Great idea. That's a first.

Now if this happens, we have zero chance of explaining it away as strictly a jab at the houses.

[Catherine Vincent]

31. I love that photo of Biden and Barack.

:thumbsup:

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. That's an awesome idea

I love it.

Sure beats purple bandaids.

[backscatter712]

20. YES!!! DO IT!!! PULL NO PUNCHES!!!

Every election, we fall into the same trap. We try to be "better" than them. We try to keep things honest, up and up, respectful, then the GOP repeatedly kicks us in the nads.

Not this time.

Understand that there are no rules in politics. There is no civility.

Sportsmanship is dead. Bush killed it in 2000.

There's only the law of the jungle.

WE ARE AT WAR, FOLKS!!! We're at war with a clique of inhuman thugs who want to plunder our treasures, destroy our liberties and leave the most vulnerable of us to rot.

We have to do whatever it takes to win, no matter the cost. We can't afford four more years of their fascism. We have to take our country back, by any means necessary, and if that means ruining the Rethug's pointman and driving him to psychosis, that's eggs and omelets, folks.

We should be calling him Wetstart McCain. We should be calling him Songbird McCain. We should be jangling keys at him until he wigs out onstage, then we should be putting the video of his wigging out in an attack ad with the caption "Do you want his finger on The Button?"

Break him. Don't humanize them. Demonize them.

I'm sorry this violates our sensibilities, but we just don't have the luxury of being able to afford to pull our punches or fight with one hand tied behind our back. We should kick McCain in the nuts every time he shows an opening and make no apologies for doing it. Who cares if it disrespects him or hurts his pwecious widdle feewings.

Show them no mercy, for you will receive none. The very survival of our country and our liberty is at stake.

[Joe the Revelator]

35. We do this and we lose 5% in middle America.

Please understand that before you get all excited.

[backscatter712]

39. Do the rethugs lose 5% every time they do it to us?

It seems to me that your typical LIV doesn't care all that much about sportsmanship or fair play.

[Joe the Revelator]

41. It has nothing to with sportsmanship....

It has to do with Jimmy Iowa seeing a bunch of "leftists" shaking a 1000 sets of cell keys in response to a POW. THAT is how this will be framed, the MSM is doing us no favors, and we're walking right into the fucking trap. All because of some dummy on Youtube. I promise you that Team McCain is praying that we do this.

[KittyWampus]

70. ONe more fucking time. The Mediawhores and GOP will NEVER admit McCain has PTSD

doing so would automatically disqualify him from being POTUS.

[Joe the Revelator]

75. You've said this a number of times, and I've told you why you're wrong with no rebuttal

Get your head out of your ass and realize that McCain does not NEED to mention the PTSD for the MSM to eat this up.

You're also ignoring the fact that McCain has already ADMITTED that the sound of jangling keys remind him of when he was a POW. He's not hiding it so why act like he's going to start to?

[jefferson_dem]

82. Ok. After consulting with my most-pragmatic and sensible "better half" I must...

agree with you. It's simply too big a risk for too little reward. I hope the convention managers (i.e. Team Obama) do what's right here. No keys.

[Krakowiak]

393. You are a class act, Jefferson Dem

I have a great deal of respect for you, from a long history of reading your posts. It speaks a lot to your personal character that you have not only been willing to listen to arguments against your OP, but also that you have then posted making note of your change of heart.

I think that we need to nail McCain for the house thing, and I agree that the Dems need to "take the gloves off", but we need to keep aware of how the media is not our friend, and it WILL screw us if we give it the slightest opening. Monopoly houses passed out would get the point across without a shadow narrative that plays into the GOP's hands being launched in the process. Anyway to get this message to the powers that be? All it takes is a change of props, because the concept seems fine to me.

[jefferson_dem]

464. ...

Thanks for the kind words, Krakowiak.

I hope you post more often. We need voices like yours.

[backscatter712]

84. Maybe Obama should sacrifice a surrogate to bring up McCain's PTSD.

Granted, that surrogate would have to get the ritual throwing-under-the-bus, but that's what surrogates are for - saying things that the candidate himself can't get away with saying.

Bring up McCain's PTSD, ask innocently if McCain is mentally fit to have his finger on the button, suggest helpfully that he spend some time in counseling for his anger issues.

Of course, the Rethugs and their MSM puppets are going to have a fit of faux outrage, though they can't have too much outrage - after all, they don't want the PTSD issue to enter the public's consciousness. Keep provoking them until McCain's PTSD hits the headlines.

By all means, the Obama campaign should officially disavow this surrogate and send him packing, but hey, once he has to do this, the message is out there.

[proud2BlibKansan]

222. And which front page of which newspaper was that mentioned on?

Which TV news show led off with "MCCAIN FREAKED OUT BY SOUND OF JINGLING KEYS!"

Hell, I never even heard this until I read it in this thread and for all I know, it's bullshit. And do you honestly believe the GOP wants America to know their candidate has PTSD which is triggered by a sound as common place as jingling keys? What kind of a leader is a man who freaks out at ordinary sounds?

But EVERYONE in America knows McCain owns so many houses he doesn't know how many he owns.

This sign at our weekly vigil today got TONS of honks and thumbs up:

[Naturyl]

93. 5% is a very conservative estimate (forgive the term).

Once McCain's campaign connects this to his admitted fear of jangling keys caused by his POW experiences, we will have a disaster on our hands. And they will do exactly that, make no mistake.

Personally, I believe if we do this we probably lose the election. Period.

[Joe the Revelator]

98. Agreed,we do this and things get real bad real quick.

[ContinentalOp]

165. Maybe I'm wrong but I couldn't agree more.

I'm so fucking sick of this weak baby boomer nonsense. "We're better than that." "It's not seemly." GROW A PAIR.

[Joe the Revelator]

190. I'm hardly a baby boomer....

I was born in '82, but I have enough political savvy to know a trap when its right there in front of my face.

[DainBramaged]

YOU are defending McInsane thinking you will accomplish something on DU

It's TOO LATE why don't you take a ride with Gramps down to Starbucks for a latte and leave the conventioneering to the adults?

[Joe the Revelator]

262. Then start acting like an adult

Instead of a reactionary child who is going to taunt from his armchair.

[DainBramaged]

310. Adult? You are the one fascinated with plastic keys

[Naturyl]

279. Nobody here is defending McCain.

If that's what you think this is about, I can't help you.

This is about not shooting ourselves in the foot. Nothing more, nothing less.

[DainBramaged]

306. I don't own a gun, so I won't be shooting anything

[flamingdem]

301. OK correct, we are "at war", but war requires strategy, leave that to Obama please nt

[goodgd_yall]

23. So when the media asks what it symbolizes

I hope someone has thought out how to answer that without making Democrats look like sick f*cks.

[Joe the Revelator]

38. They won't even ask.....this will be framed badly...very badly

We love to shoot ourselves in the foot, I swear.

[backscatter712]

49. So what?

Take a page from the GOP playbook. Some surrogate makes some sort of below-the-belt hit. The candidate then makes a prepared statement saying that was uncalled for. Everybody yawns. The surrogates then hit below the belt again. Lather, rinse, repeat. Keep the justifications ready - the keys represent McCain's 7, or 8, or 10 houses, or they represent all the foreclosed homes. Go back to triggering McCain's PTSD. It's a basic dogwhistle attack.

Just make sure Obama has a statement mentioning that McCain's a war hero, and we should respect his service. Then go back to jangling keys.

Don't be afraid to fight dirty, folks. You want to win this or what?

[Joe the Revelator]

55. You're letting emotion get in the way of your better sense....

Why give McCain any sympathy votes, why reinforce the idea that democrats are against the troops, over plastic keys? There are so many better ways to make this point.

[Krakowiak]

397. When the Media Asks?

They ask?

They aren't going to give the Democrats a chance to set the narrative.. it doesn't work that way.

Think of the long line of 'pundits' that will parade out and get plenty of airtime promoting the "democrats are mocking McCain's service to this country" card. You think that will win us votes?

It doesn't matter what the intention is. We DON'T get to frame this, the media will do that for us.

[Radical Activist]

27. Sounds like the flip flops at the GOP convention.

I thought they came off like real a-holes.

[WinkyDink]

32. That's why they lost. Oh, wait.

[Joe the Revelator]

40. You're not seeing the forest.....at all.

[Wise Child]

29. Somebody suggested

novelty reality signs. Much more expressive. Better idea.

[goodgd_yall]

37. OK---is it meant to symbolize his many houses or his PTSD trigger?

It seems there is some confusion in this thread. I right away thought---PTSD, but maybe the SEIU is thinking houses. Even if it is meant to symbolize McCain's houses---which I'm almost certain is the SEIU's intention---some of the media is bound to know about the idea of bringing keys to set McCAin's PTSD off and that will become the outrage of the week.

[Joe the Revelator]

43. I'll give you three guesses as to how this will be framed by the MSM and Team McCain

the first two don't count..

[goodgd_yall]

47. Yeah, I edited my post to say as much. n/t

[PM7nj]

52. Will they want to admit that he has PTSD though? nt

[RamboLiberal]

54. Are they really going to want to bring up his PTSD and that

keys trigger it? They'd be the fools.

I have no problem with this. SEIU wasn't after his PTSD - it's about his houses.

I bet the SEIU folks don't even know about the PTSD - geesh I'm a DU political junkie and while I vaguely remember it this little fact completely had slipped my mind.

When I read the OP I immediately thought it's a riff on his many houses.

[Joe the Revelator]

58. They don't even have to. They will just say that we're trying to remind the old man of his time in

the cell. they have no reason to bring up the PTSD and the MSM will eat up the story without the mention.

[goodgd_yall]

62. Yup, you got it. n/t

[ContinentalOp]

179. Good! So we get the media talking about the crippling weaknesses of this mentally ill motherf.....

[ContinentalOp]

replied to wrong message -nt-

[jefferson_dem]

46. It has absolutely nothing to do with any PTSD he may suffer from.

However, there is this --

"McCain has himself described having an adverse reaction to the sound of jangling keys, which reminds him of his Vietnam jailers."

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/05/22/mccain/

[goodgd_yall]

50. Don't you think Fox and even other MSM sources will exploit this stunt?

They'll report is as being about the jangling keys trigger.

[ContinentalOp]

184. GOOD! Are you kidding?

Your biggest fear is that the media will start talking about how McCain is sensitive to the sound of jangling keys? Oh noes, this will surely ruin us! :eyes:

[Joe the Revelator]

193. or, you know, they paint us as making fun of POWs and we spend 2 months trying to convince 'em o

otherwise.

[ContinentalOp]

202. Look, in order to do so, they have to admit that McCain is mentally feeble...

and is overly sensitive to the sound of jangling keys. He's INSANE. If you still think that that somehow hurts us then I guess I just can't help you.

Do you have any recollection of this election that happened way back in history... four years ago? Where the reputation of a real war hero was tarnished by innuendo and lies? Look it up in the history books please.

[Naturyl]

No, they don't have to admit that.

Americans will understand how being a POW for 5+ years and dealing with key-carrying guards could cause a negative association. It won't make McCain "crazy," it will just make him an object of sympathy.

Culturally speaking, we on the left have done our jobs fairly well in disassociating various pyschological symptoms from blanket terms like "crazy" or "nuts." We've done it well enough that the RW and the MSM using this key business to smear us will not hurt McCain much, if at all.

But it will hurt us..

[DainBramaged]

264. You two are really convinced you will accomplish something here

your defense of McRealEstate is not admirable, but there are other forums you can try to bullshit people into thinking we are just a bunch of nasty old people haters.

[Joe the Revelator]

282. Just keep running around, not saying anything....

The adults will continue to try to save this election.

[DainBramaged]

318. You are SSTILL here, get on the bus Gus, take a plane Lame

get out to the land of Starbucks and baseball and protest loudly, we are going to injure Drill McMansion by showing him plastic Fisher Price keys .

[Naturyl]

287. Mmm-kay.

Accomplishing something here? Doubtful.

But I do hope someone who has connections is calling the DNC about this and telling them to put the lid on it. Is that happening? probably not. But a person has to make the effort anyway.

As for your uninformed personal attacks on Wolsh and I, feel free to ram them. Go jingle the keys if you must, and I'll see you in November when we have President McSame.

[DainBramaged]

314. Personal attacks? I am more concerned with your attacks on the DNC and DU as a whole

you really think we are that stupid to accept your explanation for stopping this? You are sadly sadly in the wrong league.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

389. "you really think we are that stupid" based on you posts in this thread...

I'd have to vote, "YES"

Dain, I've lost all respect for you, this evening.

Give it a rest. Please.

[DainBramaged]

395. I don't give a shit about your respect for me

You aren't a member of my immediate family, I don't have to work with you, you aren't one of my doctors so I don't have to worry about my life in your hands.

Voila, just put me on ignore, I've done that for you, a little parting gift for our lack of respect for each other.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

441. I don't need to use ignore, cause I don't treat people on DU like shit.

As a matter of fact, in over 4 years as a member of the DU "Family" you are the first person to ever "put me on ignore" as far as I know.

And this "Keys" thing, is still a frickin bad idea.

As someone pointed out down thread, this is insane.

[Life Long Dem]

340. So throwing the kitchen sink at Obama is his limit on attacks?

[Joe the Revelator]

217. see my response downthread.

[Naturyl]

112. SEIU is undoubtedly thinking houses.

Nobody would be dumb enough to mock McCain's POW experiences intentionally. But, and I can't stress this enough, IT DOES NOT MATTER what the intended purpose is. What matters is how it will be framed by McCain's campaign and the M$M.

If someone doesn't think giving them ANY opportunity to score a political home run like framing Democrats as POW-mockers is a bad idea, I don't know what to to tell them.

[Purveyor]

45. A better use for this 'symbol' would be that these keys represent the 'foreclosed homes' in the US.

[Piperay]

48. GREAT idea

I'm sick of them and their purple heart bandages and banging flip flopps together. It's time we took them on on their level.

[flamingdem]

59. Bad Idea! Childish, nasty considering McCain admitted that jangling keys

makes him react due to PTSD.

All it will accomplish is getting him sympathy votes.

USE YOUR BRAINS ON THIS ONE ... it is not that funny now.

[Joe the Revelator]

63. Exactly. There are so many better props to use to get the same point across..

Why hand this to them?

[PM7nj]

65. Especially childish if they are going to use plastic toy keys.

[AuntPatsy]

I DON"T CARE what mcbush says bothers him, he wont be there its NOT his convention......

but I do think it is childish, very much so.

mcbush does NOT care about the lives our our troops...mcbush does NOT care about health care for American citizens, mcbush does NOT care about people losing thier jobs and or homes....etc..etc...etc...I DONT CARE WHAT BOTHERS HIM!!!!! so please stop worrying about him, he doesn't worry about you, "BANK" on it...

[flamingdem]

250. I care about winning and the polls are not so positive right now .. nt

[flamingdem]

64. Does everyone know McCain admitted that jangling keys sets off his Post Traumatic Stress Disorder?

He'll get tons of sympathy mileage out of this one.

[Joe the Revelator]

66. I'd be willing to bet that the orginal guy who came up with this idea was a McCain supporter...

in democrat clothing.

[Naturyl]

79. I'd put money on that, too.

Bad idea, will backfire, don't do it.

This could *easily* cost us the election. Some people are being played, big time.

[Joe the Revelator]

81. McCain is just waiting for us to do this.

[ProSense]

142. Oh no, please

don't upset the Republicans by mocking them

[Joe the Revelator]

159. You're letting your need for revenge get in the way of the real goal here

I don't know what else to tell you. If you can't see how this would feed their narrative then I guess you just haven't been paying as much attention as I thought you were.

[ProSense]

177. Revenge?

No, this is a political campaign. Watch the ads. Listen to the back-and-forth.

You seem to not have a stomach for it. What are you going to do when the Repubs get really nasty?

[Joe the Revelator]

205. I don't have the stomach to hand away an election over something that gives us no reward

We want to find a prop to represent the keating 5? Awesome, count me in. McCains age? I'm there with you, facing the bullshit. Playing directly into their strongest narrative? count me out.

[ProSense]

226. No

Playing directly into their strongest narrative?

Change: shredding to pieces their so-called strongest narrative.

It's time to stop ceding the argument to Republicans.

This time, they're not going to score points by default.

What issues are the Republicans ceding to Democrats?

[Joe the Revelator]

231. Jangling keys isn't going to shred shit

Its really not. There is no reward that can come from this. The best case for us is just looking foolish. The worst case has been described over and over again in this thread.

[ProSense]

235. No more than it's going to

be the determing factor in the election outcome.

Your scenarios are flawed. They give he GOP the edge, no matter what.

[DainBramaged]

270. SO #1 posts a negative post, and you follow up with one defending McSenile too

Have you thought about calling the good Doctor over at the DNC and asking him to not let McSame be embarrassed by our plastic keys which may trigger some condition through the TV (IF he is even watching and not drinking hot cocoa) when most of all this is the DNC convention and NOT the fucking RNC convention, which won't even raise a blip on TV when it goes up against Monday Night football.

Get a fucking life and stop trying to defend McSenile on DU, your act is stale.

[Joe the Revelator]

Please tell me (you've yet to respond to any of my posts directed at you) how seeing this for what

it is, seeing how this feeds into a narrative, and wanting to stop it before we do exactly what they want is me "defending McCain".

I know your type and I do not hesitate to say that you're tops on my list of what is wrong with this party. You're so in to proving your point, and how much of a big man that you are, that you are perfectly willing to throw away the game plan for one fun night of playing with plastic keys. Its laughable.

[DainBramaged]

322. And what is "my type" are you worried I may expose your little scheme

for the hair brained stunt it really is?


You might as well have said "you people".

[Krakowiak]

403. The "key" clue here is the choice of prop

It's a setup. I can't believe that the SEIU could walk right into this.

There is NO reason that a chain of keys needs to be the selected prop/symbol for calling attention to his 7 houses.

Keys aren't even the most obvious symbol for houses, because keys open many items, not just houses.

Why not choose Monopoly houses to wear, or carry realty signs as others have suggested?

The fact that it has to be "keys", makes it clear that this is an operation designed to screw us.

Thank you for sticking up for common sense and the good of the party (and by extension, the country and the world), by being steadfast with your opposition to this setup.

[eShirl]

425. first I ever heard of it

I'll bet most people never heard of it either

[finch96]

468. I didn't know that

But now that I do, it makes the key idea seem even worse to me. Bad move. Bad, bad move.

[flamingdem]

73. Yes! They are trying to turn Dem mileage into losses with this, careful!

The mentality might be there in the current post using the cu** word. Trying to get Democrats to overplay their hand -- this destroys the gifts given by McCain -- one of the very best and already OVERDONE gifts was the gaffe about the houses.

No need to harp on it Obama is doing that in every speech!

A sense of humor includes timing!

[AlCzervik]

80. You know why i don't like this, because it's something rwingers would do.

it appeals to the lowest common denominator. Pat Peale and her purple heart band aids and the dolphin thay used because they called Kerry Flipper.

[ProSense]

94. Maybe that's the point.

It makes the case and shows just how idiotic their actions have been.

Who knows, maybe they'll even throw a hissy fit, and then they can be reminded of the distateful incident at their 2004 convention.

[AlCzervik]

99. they won't care and they won't be offended at all, they'll use it to their advantage.

that's the way the rw and their enabling media work, they'll turn it into something it isn't and McCain will end up getting mileage from it.

[ProSense]

110. How are they going to use it to their advantage?

Complain? Charge the organizing group with being unfair?

What's to stop them from being called out for hypocrisy, and Democrats from reminding the country of the purple band-aids?

[AlCzervik]

115. because the media is no where for us, those purple heart band aids where an outrage

and where was the media , i mean really? No where. I am sure if this is done the media will spin as the democrats poking at McCain's PTSD.

[Joe the Revelator]

116. Come on Prosense, I've read your posts, you're smarter then this

They will be all over the news talking about "Look at these 'merkin hatin' liberals making fun of John McCain's 5 years in a POW camp! Have they no shame???"


You think the MSM is going to challenge them on that? Of course not, and middle America will eat it with a spoon.

[ProSense]

129. What? Give me a break!

They will be all over the news talking about "Look at these 'merkin hatin' liberals making fun of John McCain's 5 years in a POW camp! Have they no shame???"

Get a grip!

Then Democrats can respond that by linking the keys to McCain's seven to 12 homes. Do you really believe that the public is going to make the leaps overnight from keys to PSTD?


And I repeat, so what if the GOP/media throws a hissy fit, what's to stop Democrats from reminded of the distateful incident at their 2004 convention.

Plenty of purple band-aid images out there. What have they got that's tangible?

[Joe the Revelator]

136. Is that what you want to spend the next 2 months doing? Explaining away a stupid prop ploy?

Have you not been following the media? Which story is going to be more sexy to them: Democrats making fun of a POW or "Democrats Say: We weren't making fun, we just think he owns to many houses"

[ProSense]

140. Two months?

Lose the fear of Republicans. The media is not going to decide this election.

[Joe the Revelator]

141. Keep thinking that. This is the type of boneheaded stunt that feeds narratives...

takes focus off of REAL things, and hands elections to folks like McCain. But I'm sure we'll all have a good belly laugh while we're shaking our fisher price keys at the convention.

[ProSense]

146. No, it's this kind of boneheadead reaction

that empowers the GOP/media to walk all over the Democratic Party.

[Joe the Revelator]

164. Yeah you're right. Us shaking our little plastic keys will really show those fuckers

How could I be so blind?

[ProSense]

168. We agree,

they're "fuckers."

[Krakowiak]

407. Prosense, Why Keys? Can't we just change the prop used?

Why not carry realty signs, or wear monopoly houses as earrings?

Why risk so much just for a particular prop?

[Naturyl]

435. That's a good question, and I'd like to see it answered...

By all who support this.

Why are some people apparently so attached to KEYS? I wonder who can answer this honestly?

Monopoly house earrings sound great to me. It's funny and there's no backfire risk.

[ContinentalOp]

402. Yes. Yes, I do.

I would love nothing more than two months of discussing McCain's PTSD. The man is UNFIT TO BE THE PRESIDENT! How do you not see this? In what crazy world is his sensitivity to jingling keys a positive?

[flamingdem]

271. It would be on video as an example of callousness, as a cheap shot, low class nt

[ProSense]

278. House keys?

A cheap shot (as compare to the purple band-aid plastered faces at the 2004 GOP?). I say it's a great hit on McCain for his insistence on trying to paint Obama as an elitist.

[flamingdem]

284. Are you even listening? nt

[ProSense]

307. Are you?

You using a prop designed to highlight a totally unrelated incident (McCain's many homes) to defend McCain from being exposed by the GOP media as unfit to be President.

If you believe the GOP will make this about McCain's PTSD, why would you want to get in the way?

Frankly, I think claiming that the GOP will spin this and it will be so harmful to the Democrats' effort is a bogus and silly argument.

[flamingdem]

391. Please listen to my reasoning:

1. It doesn't have to do with outing McCain's Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome or whether he is unfit due to health reasons

Do you follow that

2. I knew and many know that McCain has been open about hating the sound of jangling keys, as would any ex-prisioner

Do you follow that

3. The use of the keys as a prop CONFUSES two separate points and can be manipulated to mean multiple things, not what you mean
Point 1: He doesn't like or reacts to jangling keys (so what really)
Point 2: He has a lot of houses (totally different subject now clowded by the first meaning

Misuse 1: Democrats are confused and confusing and do not respect their leaders by making noise with keys that do not even hit their mark since there are 2 issues related to them re: McCain
Misuse 2: Keys cannot be taken away. Thus, they represent the chance that someone with a negative agenda could do damage at the convention by making noise and creating stress at a minimum, if not confrontation

Now how, if you follow these points can you continue to support that idea? What is gained ?

[ProSense]

451. That makes no sense. n/t

[flamingdem]

453. I'm done with you and your desire to disrupt the convention

I'm 100% against that and believe you are blind.

[ProSense]

454. "I'm done with you and your desire to disrupt the convention"

WTF?

I'm not going to the convention, this wasn't my idea, and this is a thread on DU, not meeting to determine if this should go forward.

Suddenly, you're arguing disruption (potential damage)? What happened to McCain and the GOP/media spin?

This all sounds like excuses from people making too much out of nothing, or concerned about something else unknown.

[flamingdem]

456. If you don't read the thread

then why participate. It was about using keys at the convention.

[slinkerwink]

90. this is great!

I like this idea. Others may think it's too mean, but that's the sign of a Democrat who wants to take the higher road, and gets beaten down in the mud EVERY SINGLE fucking time.

[Joe the Revelator]

102. I have to disagree. Its the sign of a Democrat who can read the tea leaves....

and see that the risk is so far away from any possible reward.

[slinkerwink]

109. Ok, the first reaction of a Democrat to going for the jugular

is to cringe. That's the sign that you're pulling your punches and hoping that voters like the higher ground you prefer.

[Joe the Revelator]

113. This has no reward. At best we look as foolish as the purple bandaid fools who turned into a joke

at worst,this overshadows the convention, gets ton of airplay with the MSM who will eat this story up, and hands McCain the lead. There is no upside to this.

You want to go for the jugular? You're not going to do it with kid's toys and props. You do it with words and you don't play nice on the podium like we did in 04.

[ProSense]

137. Right everyone was saying don't touch the POW story

We touched it. McCain is looking like a fool over playing his hand.

Stop with the panic and overreacting.

[Whisp]

91. ouch. not very clever at all. nt

[denem]

106. Tres Bad. Stupid beyond belief.

Giving the GOP one huge op on 'McCain was a POW!' right in the middle of the convention? Dr Dean should intervene to put an end to this ASAP.

[ProSense]

117. What does it have to do with

him being a POW?

McCain owns seven to 12 homes.

[Joe the Revelator]

118. Do you think that's what the frame is going to be?

I mean, really.

[ProSense]

132. Who cares how they try to frame it? It's the Democrats job to debunk their spin.

What the hell is with the fear the GOP spin first attitude?

[denem]

148. Try to frame it? The GOP finally gets a go at 'making fun of POW'

You only have to give them half an inch on this and you'll have vets protesting in the streets. Try framing that!

[Krakowiak]

412. seconded (nt)

[Joe the Revelator]

150. Let me ask you this. What is the best case senario to come out of shaking fisher price keys at

McCain's name?

[denem]

154. Worst case: Vets protesting in the streets.

Real easy to frame that. Not.

[ProSense]

162. Which Vets

this one or these?

Still, what do house keys have to do with being a POW?

[denem]

172. Vets? GOP vets? So hard to find! POWs too.

McCain has a POW network he can call with a few easy calls. They don't even have to lie.

[DainBramaged]

275. Really, a network? Like they will come out of the woodwork to defend him?

For a vet, McCain's record sorely lacking

On July 7, at a town hall meeting in Denver, a Vietnam veteran confronted John McCain about his support of veterans' issues.

"I have a perfect voting record from organizations like the Veterans of Foreign Wars, the American Legion and all the other veterans service organizations," responded McCain.

Although this sounds good, it is inaccurate and misleading. The VFW and American Legion do not compile congressional voting records, and other veterans' organizations that do compile records aren't favorable.

Disabled American Veterans is an organization that was founded following World War I, and today has 1.4 million members.

It not only tracks this legislation, but tracks how politicians vote. John McCain is documented as having voted with DAV-supported legislation 34 percent of the time. Barack Obama has voted with the DAV 89 percent of the time.

Another organization that tracks legislation important to veterans is Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, the first and largest organization dedicated to those who served in Iraq and Afghanistan.

IAVA is only concerned with bettering the lives of returning veterans, and advocating for their rights. Its records show McCain voting with IAVA 58 percent of the time, and receiving a "D" rating. Obama voted with IAVA 89 percent of the time, receiving a "B-plus" rating.

http://www.newsleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080824/OPINION02/808240318

[ProSense]

156. A

hissy fit by the GOP/media.

That would be grand.

[denem]

166. What about a Vet protest with a few POWs

talking about the sound of keys. Add in a few sobbing wives for good measure.

[ProSense]

173. Which Vets?

These?

You still haven't explained what house keys have to do with being a POW?

[denem]

176. Read reply above. If anyone has a newtwork of POW contacts it's McCain.

[ProSense]

183. Maybe you should read up on McCain's network of POW contacts

Start with Bud Day

[denem]

192. That's one guy. How many POWs are there out there.?

Anyone one with any experience of jails knows the significance of keys. Anyone. POWs included (sarcasm)

[Joe the Revelator]

169. You have a strange idea of what is grand 2 months from an election

We can't help ourselves though can we? We'll give it away, even if we have to think of new creative ways to do it.

[ProSense]

186. No, the strange notion is that

plastic house keys are going to cost Dems the election.

[Joe the Revelator]

196. bookmark the thread kiddo

and i'm far from a doomsayer.

[Naturyl]

207. Yeah, if this is going to happen, bookmarking is definitely advised.

After we lose thanks to this hare-brained idea, reviewing this thread may be instructive. We have already had two similar threads about it - one started by a confirmed and tombstoned Freeper troll who was encouraging the plan. They realize what some here apparently don't. Oh well...

[Naturyl]

153. Because this idea is just THAT BAD.

There's a difference between fearing RW spin and having the good sense not to hand them their wildest dreams on a silver platter. This idea illustrates that difference.

[denem]

108. Email the DNC - this must not happen.

[Naturyl]

120. Yeah, agreed. Write or better yet call the DNC pronto.

If anyone has DNC contacts, get on the phone. Right now. This could cost us the election and it must not be allowed to happen.

[Krakowiak]

416. Perhaps try to call someone at SEIU as well (nt)

[Binka]

114. Jesus Gawd All The DUers I Consider Idiots Are Balking At This

Confirms why I believe they are idiots. Cut McMansions non existent balls off. Fuck that nasty old man up badly. It needs to be done. The Corpo media will never support us so give them something to whine about. Fuck Johnny McNasty and fuck him real good. Send the chairs and lamps scattering.

[Joe the Revelator]

121. I think the fact that you're for this makes me happy that you consider me an "idiot".

Just sayin.

[Binka]

135. Oh Goody

Pleases me that you don't like me. I don't want a fools support.

[Joe the Revelator]

139. Yes, your caustic wit shows that you are clearly light years ahead of me when it comes to strategy

Clearly.

[Binka]

160. Have your child nearly killed in Iraq and then get back to me sport

OK? McAsshole needs to be punished and humiliated.

[Joe the Revelator]

174. Don't play cards with me champ...

you obviously have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to winning election. Oh yes, that much is abundantly clear.

[Name removed]

477. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Naturyl]

126. The feeling is mutual.

Nobody opposing this wants to go easy on McCain. Get that straight, okay? We all want to see McCain beaten - and that's why we oppose this. This potentially hands the MSM and the right wing an enormously damaging talking point on a silver platter. And frankly, if you don't understand why that is the case, you are an idiot yourself.

[Binka]

149. I Understand A Bunch Sport

That you are a coward is obvious. I don't need advice from you about McLame. The very fact that Bush and this douche tried to kill my son in Iraq gives me the right to fuck up Johns run for Prez.

[Naturyl]

188. Yep. You got any other kids, "sport?"

Because if we do shit as remarkably foolish as this, McCain's gonna win and get his paws on them too.

So go ahead and jingle-jangle those keys, get revenge for the purple band-aids, pat yourself on the back for not being afraid of Repukes and the MSM - and then start packing some bags for the young'uns. Remember "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran?"

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

405. "We all want to see McCain beaten - and that's why we oppose this."

Thank you. Well put. I can't believe smart people here, would not see that this childish idea is JUST PLAIN STUPID!

[Naturyl]

443. I can't blame most of them.

We are all fighting mad at Repukes and their record of insanity over the last 8 years. We all want to hit them hard and stick it to them where it hurts. I can certainly understand people's desire to do that, and how it might cloud their better judgement about this issue.

But nonetheless, we have to realize this is a mistake before it catches on and we get cut to shreds... again.

[denem]

131. Jails, Keys, POWs.

hell!

[Naturyl]

143. Exactly.

What's not to understand? It's all right there for the taking, on a silver platter.

This is a very bad idea... nothing more I can really say.

[Barack_America]

261. Yeah, we who don't want to risk giving McCain the ability to make the GE be "all POW, all the time"

...are the idiots.

Ohhhh-kayyy.

[Binka]

478. Grow Up Dear

When they throw the punch you punch back. Ever been in a fight? Go back and talk to your PUMA buddies. You are confused on what it takes.

[DainBramaged]

280. I truly believe that those that work against us are our worst enemies, and they

reside under our big tent.


I love the ignore feature. It makes stoopidity easier to digest.

[Naturyl]

302. Then start ignoring, please.

You don't have a clue who is working for you and who is working against you here. Wolsh, myself, and a few others are trying to prevent what could be a big mistake. We are trying to stop well-intentioned Democrats from handing McSame the election on a silver platter. If you call that "working against you," then you are both short-sighted and self-centered.

[DainBramaged]

319. Wow you all must be very important to be discussing this on DU.

[Name removed]

327. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

347. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AuntPatsy]

163. ITS CHILDISH AND STUPID....lol sorry about the caps..common

I could care less how he media or the gop spins it if this is true......not the point, they will attempt to spin anything the Dem's do so who cares what they think?



I bought those same keys for my grandchildren and my own children when they were YOUNG....it was for learning reasons you know....there is nothing such an empty stupid thing as jingling a bunch of child's plastic key rings will accomplish seriously...

Can we fight them on the issues please?????????HOW hard is that, the truth is enough to destroy the gop criminals, stupid stunts like this is beyond the pale for our convention, probably one of the MOST IMPORTANT ones we will ever have...sheesh...


"OBAMA-BIDEN" "09" because I think they can save us on their own merits, please give the keys to needy children??????please....

[Sugarcoated]

195. I'm all for playing dirty . . .

but smart dirty. You have to remember, mr & mrs middle America have looked down on the Democratic Party since the Vietnam, a repetitive and incessant demonization. By smart-dirty, I mean we can play dirty as long as we don't play into the stereotype, or at least not this idea. There's so many other ways to attack McCain that aren't so risky.

For those who think it'll be a two day story, it won't because of the way the right wing noise/smear machine works. The worker bees will dutifully go on every show they can and repeat, repeat, repeat. We couldn't get any traction on the purple band-aid because our surrogates aren't nasty wind-up ideological robots. If there was no PTSD then the key ring idea would be great, but the right will play this skillfully, it's their forte, and it's how they win because they can't win on the issues so they have it perfected. People who stay up nights dreaming of ways to be evil will always have a head start over Democrats, who, IMO are kinder and fairer by nature. To them the end justifies the means, and it doesn't for Democrats. Democrats are tough, but they don't stay up nights dreaming of ways to be underhanded and mean. We can go toe to toe, but we have to be smart about it.

[bluestateguy]

311. You make some good arguments

Maybe this keys thing is a waste of time.

I'd rather have our Democratic Secretaries of state who control the vote counting in states like Ohio and Pennsylvania think up ways to "deliver" their states in November.

Revenge for Katherine Harris and Ken Blackwell.

[Naturyl]

374. Brilliant post. Thank you. (n/t)

[Krakowiak]

420. everyone should read this post, ty (nt)

[AlCzervik]

200. i really doubt that either Obama or Biden will like this stunt.

[denem]

203. HEADLINE: Democrats bring jail keys to taunt McCain.

(article rehashes McCain aversion to the sound of keys) Dems: oh no, we meant houses. Set up a houses vs POW debate. Perfect!

[ProSense]

206. Maybe the GOP should put you on commission.

What do house keys have to do with being a POW?

[Naturyl]

210. Absolutely nothing.

Do you think that will stop the RW and the MSM?

[ProSense]

214. Stop them from what?

Spinning shit out of thin air?

Do you think anything will stop them from doing that?

Obama's name is something to spin.

Stop being afraid of the fucking RW assholes. OK?

[denem]

216. Ask a prisoner. Any prisoner. Ask about keys.

Ask around DU. Ask your contacts. Just ask. You are one of the most level headed guys here. Keys and prisons go together like soap and water. Ask someone with experience. Please.

[ContinentalOp]

208. Jesus people... In order for the PTSD angle of this to have any effect...

the media is going to have to admit that the guy has PTSD and goes batshit insane every time I'm about to unlock my front door. If you don't see how that's a guaranteed WIN for us then there is no hope for you.

[Joe the Revelator]

215. No they won't

It doesn't mean you have PTSD if the sound of keys reminds you of your jailers. It means you have a memory. and thats all the GOP will cop to.

[kas125]

234. Why do all of you think that the sound of a plastic infant toy going to remind him

of his jailers? Did his jailers use Fisher-Price Keys?

[Joe the Revelator]

236. Now this is just stupid. ITS THE OPTICS MAN!!!

[DainBramaged]

285. It's stupid for you tho think this was going to change by debating it here

SO plastic keys make McSenile go bat-shit? You should be screaming he SHOULDN'T be President than defending him. I am truly suspect of the effort you are putting into this on DU.

[Joe the Revelator]

321. This must be your first campaign

Its cute that you decided to get involved, but please know that for some us this isn't our first time at the rodeo. We know what the MSM can do.

[BlooInBloo]

316. But the keys don't jingle.

[denem]

227. No. They only have to link keys and prisons. Dead simple.

Keys and prisons got together life soap and water. Dem's will say they are house keys. GOP - taunting McCain with keys - prison keys. No PTSD there. ASK ANY PRISONER ABOUT KEYS. The US has the most jailed population on earth. Jesus this is stupid.

[Naturyl]

232. Dead wrong.

All they have to do is create the following perception:

"Democrats = vicious and un-American partisans willing to psychologically assault a former POW with jangling keys, even after that former POW has stated that it is a negative association for him."

If you don't think the RW and the MSM can very easily frame it that way and have middle America eat it up, I don't know where you've been for the last 8 years.

And even if they DO have to bring up the PTSD issue, it won't hurt them at all to do so if they already have this far more damaging bomb to drop on us.

[Joe the Revelator]

209. You want to find a prop to fuck with him over the Keating 5? Awesome, I'm there.

Hit him on his age? Look for me, right next to you, facing the bullshit. But if you want to play into McCain's strongest narrative? No thanks, I want to win this election.

[Naturyl]

211. Or just find a better prop to nail him on the house gaffe.

Come on, there are a brazillion options. Why does it have to be keys?

[PM7nj]

212. What do you suggest?

[Krakowiak]

424. A few suggestions....

Monopoly houses worn as earrings.. seven in a chain on one ear...

Realty Signs with pictures of various McCain properties on them (big visual there)

Deeds to homes..

really an endless amount of possibilities, any of which I would support, outside of keys.

[Joe the Revelator]

213. Its like we just WANT to fuck this up.

[ProSense]

219. Have you seen the RW spin

on Biden's relationship with his son the lobbyist?

No one wants to fuck anything up, but I am curious why you're more concerned with this non-issue than the above.

[Joe the Revelator]

224. Because I have zero control over those spins jobs. Its up to Obama to fix that....

but when WE get involved, and WE get ready to fuck it up, then yes it concerns me greatly.

[ProSense]

228. How proactive of you.

I believe you have as much control over this issue as you do over the current RW spin on Biden.

[Joe the Revelator]

237. I fail to see how.

[DainBramaged]

288. There ya go again. Are you two in the same room or on the phone?

[Naturyl]

295. Nope. Wolsh and I don't even know each other.

Why do you need to make this about us?

[Joe the Revelator]

333. Because its easier then him admitting that he's never supported this ticket...

and would like to see exactly what we are warning about occur.

[Blue-Jay]

248. That's a shitty stupid idea.

The media is going to portray this as an attempt to fuck with McCain about his PTSD issues regarding his captivity, regardless of anyone's argument that it's about the how many houses gaffe.

People who try to use this will come off as uncivil assholes, and rightly so. We have the Republicans over a barrel on every issue right now, and the blowback from such a childish stunt will be devastating. We can't get away with the same sort of shitty "hur hur hur" pettiness that the Republicans can. That's a fucking fact.

[ProSense]

263. I really want to know how this works?

The media is going to portray this as an attempt to fuck with McCain about his PTSD issues regarding his captivity...

Has McCain's PTSD been widely reported?

So the GOP/media is going to use props designed to emphasize the point that McCain own's seven to 12 homes to portray McCain as a person who suffers from PTSD and has issues with keys?

These are house keys, plastic ones at that.

You're implying that the RW media is going to expose McCain, the potential next President of the US, as someone who suffers PTSD and is traumatized by the jingling of keys?

Really?

[Joe the Revelator]

268. They don't have to. McCains camp will do everything to link "Keys" with "Prison" and the MSM will

eat it up. You know this as well as I do. Read the rest of the thread. This question has been answered much more eloquently a number of times.

[ProSense]

269. How? n/t

[Joe the Revelator]

274. How what?

McCains Spokeperson: And the American people all saw those liberal, american hating democrats shaking prison keys at the very mention of John McCain's name.Its disgusting that they would even do that to a man that was a POW for FIVE years



You don't think the MSM will eat that up? Really?

[ProSense]

286. "Prison keys"

These look like plastic house keys:



Again, how?

[Joe the Revelator]

330. Thats like me asking you how plastic keys are going to remind anyone of seven houses

Because, you know, house keys are really made of metal .

[ProSense]

337. Right, because most people see keys and think

prison.

Give it a rest.

[Joe the Revelator]

344. Most people who also listen to McCain's spin will think of Prison

Its not a hard leap to make about a subject that our own nominee has, rightfully or wrongly, treated as taboo.

[ProSense]

348. That's absurd! n/t

[Joe the Revelator]

352. Is it?

What absurd is marrying yourself to such a god awful idea.

Believing that the media will eat up spin that makes democrats seem small and petty is being realistic.

[ProSense]

366. Absurd is worrying about what the GOP media might spin.

You're worried about the possibility that they will spin instead of trying to figure out how to counter their spin.

Who runs a campaign worrying about how the GOP will perceive something and spin it?

That's absurd.

[flamingdem]

290. McCain has admitted that jangling keys remind him of his prison - What do you not get? nt

[ProSense]

315. So? They will remind other people of his seven to 12 homes.

The GOP/media is free to explore the other issue. No one is bringing it up.

[Blue-Jay]

305. Yes.

Has McCain's PTSD been widely reported? Not widely, but it's no secret.

So the GOP/media is going to use props designed to emphasize the point that McCain own's seven to 12 homes to portray McCain as a person who suffers from PTSD and has issues with keys? Yes.

These are house keys, plastic ones at that. So?

You're implying that the RW media is going to expose McCain, the potential next President of the US, as someone who suffers PTSD and is traumatized by the jingling of keys? I'm not implying that. I'm saying that it will happen if we shake keys at him like a bunch of crazed douchbags.

Really? Yes, really.

What is it you don't understand?

[ProSense]

334. Wow

You're implying that the RW media is going to expose McCain, the potential next President of the US, as someone who suffers PTSD and is traumatized by the jingling of keys? I'm not implying that. I'm saying that it will happen if we shake keys at him like a bunch of crazed douchbags.

"bunch of crazed douchbags"?

I'm still not seeing how the RW media exposing McCain as someone traumatized by jingling keys is bad for Democrats.

[Blue-Jay]

364. Wow, yourself.

Would you have preferred "deranged meanies"? Because that's how's it will presented by the talking heads.

Stop acting like tit-for-tat is a great idea, and THINK about the repercussions. Sen Obama has gotten where he is by being measured, thoughtful, and careful. You could learn an important lesson about politics from him and think about how a stupid stunt like this could go terribly wrong from a PR standpoint.

Jesus. Why not just throw handfuls of your own shit?

[ProSense]

380. "Because that's how's it will presented by the talking heads. "

Again, SO?

Isn't it funny how for a few days a lot of people here were lambasting the Obama campaign for being too nice and not hitting back hard enough, now some people want SEIU to exercise caution for fear of the GOP spin?

[Blue-Jay]

385. There's a difference between hitting back with facts, and being petty and childish.

If you can't figure that out, then I suppose we're done. Have fun jingling your keys.

You'll look like this silly bitch:

[ProSense]

387. Not remotely close, and

there lies the GOP's problem.

[Naturyl]

384. And might as well throw those handfuls at Obama rather than McCain

Since that is where the shit will land if we do this key thing.

[TheDonkey]

251. Good I hope we spend time this DNC actually bashing McClown.

in 2004 we spent so much time ignoring Bush it came back to bite us.

[Joe the Revelator]

256. Then lets do it from the podium....the audiance's job is to not fuck this up

and they're about to.

[flamingdem]

260. Absolutely right, check your ego at the door and follow protocol! nt

[flamingdem]

291. ... uh .... I think that Obama is aware of this big time! nt

[RamboLiberal]

252. And discussion here on DU will do what?

I doubt the SEIU or the Obama campaign or DNC will use or not use them based on what is said here.

I'll wait and see how this plays out.

This isn't as bad as the purple heart bandaids which the Repukes got away with.

[Joe the Revelator]

259. Why should we discuss anything on DU?

Who basis anything on what is said here?

[flamingdem]

258. Keys jangling is mean spirited. Obama knows how to play this one effectively.

Anyone who has admitted to a health disorder should not have that thrown in their face.

The issue of the houses has been super overplayed and now only Obama and surrogates should do it or it risks being very unfunny.

Get over it!

It was funny ... last week.

[Barack_America]

309. Classless.

That's how my boyfriend characterized it.

I agree.

[ProSense]

320. No this is

classless.

[Barack_America]

323. It is entirely possible for both to be classless.

And, in fact, both are.

[ProSense]

355. Yes, plastic house keys

and that ad are on the same level.

Frankly, I'm not concerned about McCain's issues or how the GOP/media will try to cover for him.

I'm only concerned that the Democrats exposed them for distorting the facts if they do.

[Barack_America]

368. Again, who said they were plastic? nt

[ProSense]

372. Who cares?

They're about the houses. Why any Democrat is trying to make them about something else is beyond me.

[Barack_America]

377. We're not. We're trying to prevent the GOP from making them into a insult to POWs. nt

[ProSense]

386. You're going to prevent the GOP from spinning?

Oh, so it's not about McCain anymore?

The house issue is about McCain, not POWs.

[Barack_America]

390. You prevent them from spinning this by not doing it.

Doing it gives them a chance to play the POW card again. And they most certainly will. And unlike the bullshit POW excuses of the past week, this one WILL get sympathy from many Americans.

[ProSense]

398. How do you know that?

Doing it gives them a chance to play the POW card again. And they most certainly will. And unlike the bullshit POW excuses of the past week, this one WILL get sympathy from many Americans.

A lot of people were up in arms about calling McCain out on his POW BS excuses and lies. Same argument. How do you know that this one " WILL get sympathy from many Americans"?

How do you know they will make the leap? You can't even be sure any spin will be effective, primarily because the GOP will most likely tip toe around the issue to avoid portraying McCain as traumatized.

[Naturyl]

410. Tell me why the following tombstoned Freeper OP exists:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=6691513

If we are being silly to worry about how the RW will respond, why does that thread exist? Why would they be promoting the idea?

[ProSense]

418. Because

the freeper was most likely trying to use it to build up its post count.

The poster here was a freeper, but the OP piece was by Pastordan at Daily Kos.

Did you even go to the link in that OP?

[Naturyl]

423. PastorDan was clearly intending it to be about the houses.

But the Freeper troll who came here obviously realized the potential for it to blow up in our faces.

Of all the possible topics for an OP to build post count, why this?

"Post count" is a non-answer. The OP topic was selected for a reason. What was that reason?

[ProSense]

432. Seriously,

"Post count" is a non-answer. The OP topic was selected for a reason. What was that reason?

Post count is the answer. They're stupid, but I doubt they're stupid enough to post something so uninteresting that it would sink.

[Naturyl]

446. Okay, if you really believe that, I guess that's as far as we can go.

You believe that the topic was chosen for no other reason than to inflate a troll's post count.

Naturally, I find that a strange view. I guess there's no way I could disprove it, but I choose to believe Freeper trolls are nastier and more determined than that. They want to damage Democrats, and that's why they are here. In my view, that's also the reason the post the things they do. Go read their websites and you'll see that they admit this openly.

[PM7nj]

265. This thread is insane.

[Life Long Dem]

273. yea-242 nay-30

Not official

[flamingdem]

277. This is a democracy so... wonder if the OP has the ability to listen nt

[Blue-Jay]

329. Where did those numbers come from?

(and was it uncomfortable pulling them out?)

[flamingdem]

276. If I had the luck to be there I would not disrupt proceedings unless

I had a selfish or underhanded agenda. There are plenty of people who might want to make the convention look bad. Thousands of people are working 24/7 so it comes off as together and positive.

[Krakowiak]

326. Awful, self defeating idea....

I have to think that this idea is a wet dream for the McCain campaign... in fact, I suspect that it may have been planted on democratic boards originally to get suckers to bite on it and carry it out. If you want to call attention to his 7 homes, that's fine... pass out the little monopoly houses - have people wear 7 at a time as earrings...

don't you find it just a bit suspicious that this PARTICULAR device being suggested for bringing up his multiple homes, is EXACTLY the device that will serve to bring the POW PTSD narrative into play in the MSM. This could really damage the Obama campaign. I could see several days of full blown coverage (DURING THE CONVENTION NO LESS) portraying the democrats in a negative light over this. It doesn't matter what the intent is, the result will be the same as if they passed out masks of Vietnamese people. This will not win votes for the ticket, it will only serve to disgust many on the fence voters.

Just stop and think about this for a second.

[Naturyl]

338. Thank you. You're exactly right.

Can those who have already written me off at least consider the above post?

[Barack_America]

341. A Freeper was the first to post this on DU.

And was tombstoned shortly thereafter.

So yes, I suspect your suspicions are very much right on.

[cboy4]

339. Most of America thinks ALL politcians are wealthy, because

most of them are.

I don't know why we're trying to get so much mileage out of this house thing.



Oh.

Carry on.

[ProSense]

345. Here comes the

RW elitist meme pushers.

[cboy4]

349. Excuse me?

[ProSense]

357. Oh, I was responding to your post. n/t

[cboy4]

365. Just tell me what you have to say ProSense.

You're so timid.

[ProSense]

370. I thought I did in my first response. n/t

[cboy4]

381. No, if you did ... then I wouldn't have asked you.

Now then, why don't you explain it to me, so I can perfectly understand your comment.

[nsd]

351. Yeah, this does not seem worth it.

The downside (it backfiring) is too big, the upside too small.

Hopefully, the Obama campaign is aware of the danger and shuts this down.

[DainBramaged]

354. What danger? Because McSenile may see people jangling plastic keys on TV?

:rofl:

[Barack_America]

359. Who said they were plastic?

You're assuming the keys in the picture are the ones that were sent. We don't know that.

[DainBramaged]

362. (sigh) let me get Fisher Price on the phone

Mr. Fisher, did Mr. Price sell a lot of plastic keys to a Union man? Oh they MADE them for free, oh ok.

See.

[Barack_America]

388. It was a FREEPER who first posted this on DU...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=6691513

No why would a freeper come over here to suggest such a thing?

:think:

[ProSense]

392. No you're resorting to distortion.

What does that have to do with the OP?

[Barack_America]

396. ??? Freepers are salivating at the possibility Dems will actually DO this key stunt.

With the key stunt being the subject of the OP.

So yeah, there's a pretty clear relation there.

[DainBramaged]

399. How do you know the Freepers are salivating?

You a waitress or something? Wow that is a little too much information for me.

[Barack_America]

404. Why else would they come here and encourage that we do this? nt

[DainBramaged]

409. So you are saying there are Freepers in this thread?

[Barack_America]

414. Please try to at least follow along.

If you'll notice, I provided you a link to where this keys idea was first posted on DU a few days ago. It was first posted by a Freeper who has been tombstoned.

This is not the first thread about this subject on DU.

[DainBramaged]

419. And I am SURE it won't be the last

:eyes:

[ProSense]

411. That's ridiculous.

The poster here was a freeper, but the OP piece was by Pastordan at Daily Kos.

The freeper was most likely trying to use it to build up its post count.

[Naturyl]

421. I believe PastorDan only intended it to be about McCain's houses.

But the Freeper troll who came here obviously realized the potential for it to blow up in our faces.

Of all the possible topics for an OP to build post count, why this?

[ProSense]

400. We're supposed to trust freepers?

Maybe they shitting in their pants.

Still the OP is about what the SEIU is doing, not what freepers are doing.

[Barack_America]

408. No this post is about how the SEIU, unfortunately, is doing exactly what the freepers want. nt

[DainBramaged]

413. How do you KNOW this, because two people in this thread said so?

Can you personally vouch for them?

[Naturyl]

417. The SEIU is haplessly playing into what Freepers want us to do.

That's the point.

A Freeper came here posing as a Democrat and encouraged us to get behind this idea. Now apparently the SEIU is doing it. The Freeper who made the troll OP here must be thrilled:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=6691513

[Blue-Jay]

401. Even the author of the OP now sees this as a bad idea.

Stop trying to be a fearless warrior (or whatever), step back, and look at this stunt from a pragmatic viewpoint.

[DainBramaged]

406. We give in yet again to the Reich-wing WHO KNOW that what is meant by this

is EXACTLY what the public will think, that McCranky and his Vampire mistress have too many homes and are not "one of us'. It has NOTHING to do with PTSD, and the ONLY reason that is in the mix is because the Reich wing KNOWS this is a home run.

Get real.

[Blue-Jay]

428. No, YOU get real. You want an education? Here we go:

1 - A bunch of well-meaning, but myopic people show up waving around their little toy keys. They say it's because McCain owns too many houses (whatever that means).

2 - Limbaugh and the other AM radio douchebags POUNCE on the stunt. They connect the jangling keys to McCain's POW status (like everything else) and his resulting PTSD. "Even IF they're telling the truth (which I doubt my friends) about this stunt having to do with McCain's wealth, it's nothing more than liberal class-envy" <--that's what they'll say.

3 - Hannity and O'Reilly will bloviate about this on their highly-rated Fox TV shows constantly.

4 - Other news stations (wanting to jump on the ratings bandwagon) will also start covering this.

5 - It'll hit newspaper op-eds, and finally actual news stories.


See? That's how it works every fucking time, just like the bullshit Ayers story that's going around now. Obama was in the same room as Ayers a few times, and suddenly he approves of bombing US government buildings.

That's how they make the Big Lie work, on in this particular case you want to GIVE them the material instead of them having to make it up. You call trying to avoid that "giving in"?!?

YOU get fucking real. Learn how real political maneuvering works in the real world.

[DainBramaged]

436. I think you need to look up the word loser in the dictionary

and it is listed under the word Democrat and Karl Rove.

Oh and I am real. Thanks for stopping by.

[Blue-Jay]

438. Great. Now you're not even making sense.

"Loser" is listed under Democrat & Karl Rove in the dictionary?

Go outside and yell at a streetlight for a while.

[Barack_America]

440. Or yell at a cloud. nt

[DainBramaged]

444. Bye bye blue-jay

You obvioulsy didn't read up a few posts, but you seem to be satisfied with losing another election to a candidate who can't even dress himself, all because you and a few others in this thread think we should play fair with the Rethugs.

Pathetic.

[Blue-Jay]

445. I read the whole thread, but if it makes you feel better to be dismissive,

have at it. Being dismissive and superior won't make people think you're smarter, though.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

[DainBramaged]

Right, which is why we are on a message board and smarter people

decide our fates. You really are a bright guy, maybe I'll go hunting for monsters in the morning.

Cya, don't forget to put the light out bright guy.

[Naturyl]

448. Nice Nietzsche quote.

:)

[Barack_America]

439. So, Democrats are "losers", eh?

Just as I expected.

And excellent rebuttal to that argument, you really told him/her! :eyes:

[Barack_America]

437. Goddammit I wish I could recommend this post.

That's exactly what will happen if this goes down.

I'll be calling the DNC and my local SEIU tomorrow, FWIW.

This is a seriously bad idea.

[DainBramaged]

442. Here I'll save you the effort

202-863-8000 DNC

SEIU Local 32BJ - Branch Office
42 S 15th St Ste 200

Philadelphia, PA 19102-2202

I can hear the receptionist in a Lily Tomlin voice

keys, you need keys? We don't make keys

[Naturyl]

447. Yep, that sounds like reality to me, sadly. (n/t)

[seaglass]

466. You forgot step 6. A bunch of Democrats apologize to McCain

because you KNOW that's what will happen.

[Joe the Revelator]

472. This is an amazing post.

Great job.

[writes3000]

422. There are much better ideas out there. Most people have several keys on their keychain.

So it's not an automatic association.

2) I think there's merit to the backfire concern.

Why not hold up signs that say "How many houses do YOU own?"

Serves the same purpose and it's much more direct.

Hopefully the Obama campaign and the DNC comes up with something better.

Plus, the key jangling will disrupt the speakers. Bad idea all around.

[DainBramaged]

426. Those of you who think this is weak are the weak ones.

And this is why since 1994 the Reich wing has cleaned our clocks.

You should be ashamed of yourselves. You always find a way to snatch defeat from victory. And if it was 10 AM instead of 2 AM you would not have been allowed to get away with this.

[Barack_America]

427. Thank you captain logic....

We all already know how eager you are to let McCain make "POW" the front-and-center topic for the next 2 months.

[DainBramaged]

431. Nice try but YOU seem to be the one fascinated with Freepers and know all about them

Got distracted by that skunk under my window, wonder who it is?

BTW this POW crap McInsane is calling on everything from coffee to his houses, he is finally being called on it. But I guess you've been fixated on keys for some reason.

[Barack_America]

433. Know thine enemy.

The root of all successful strategy.

[DainBramaged]

434. Really, you get service all the way out here?

[writes3000]

429. So if we think there's a better way to attack McCain, we're weak. Interesting.

I don't see many people saying we should run with this house thing.

I see people saying let's not give the opposition an easy way to attack us back.

Are keys the ONLY way to attack McCain at the convention? I don't think so.

[SMC Beck]

449. Anti Mc Cain Trophies

Mayby the Dem Campaign people could mint a commemorative 2008
McCain
coin...put his face on one side of the coin, screaming
"Amnesty!" and his OTHER
face on the other side of the coin, screaming "No
Amnesty!" Give it out at the Repub Convention.

[Darth_Ole]

457. They fucking better not make these keyrings part of the convention...

It will be mocked by everyone from Chris Matthews to Jon Stewart. In fact, I remember Lewis Black saying in 2004 that the people wearing purple heart bandaids should have been given the "Congressional Medal of Idiot."

Let's keep this convention positive, folks... Obama says he wants to end the tit-for-tat, slash and burn style of politics. If the SEIU is planning on doing this, Obama better stop it now. If it goes through, we'll significantly lower the discourse of this campaign. We can challenge McCain's elitism without childish props.

Could you imagine John Kennedy's supporters at the 1960 convention waving stuffed animals in reference to Nixon's Checkers scandal? It'd be utter bullshit.

We're trying to change politics, everyone, not just parties. Remember that.

[fujiyama]

458. I'm all for hitting then - and hitting them hard

but this just won't work.

The media is not on our side. McCain has always been their man. They love him. And houses or not - it just won't matter. This will be seen as a slam on his being a POW and any PTSD issues he faces as a result of it. This will build greater sympathy for him. Right now one of Obama's advantages remains that he is seen as running the cleaner campaign. And yes, regardless of the hit he's taken in the polls, that is still an advantage.

"After all did you know that McCain was a POW? And apparently he was affected by the captor's keys jangling. He's a hero. "

That's that. Look, the Dems are at a disadvantage on this military/national security thing from the start. Why? Because, for the most part Americans are uninformed and love bluster and saber rattling. The media keeps this going too. And after we've seen the petty theatrics from the GOP I want the adults back in charge. These are serious times and people already question Obama's "experience". Well, people need to know he's a serious candidate ready to tackle the issues. Jangling keys doesn't do that. Sure, a few may be reminded by McCain's wealth, but then again we did run our own multi million dollar candidate (as a result of marriage) - I'm not saying the two (Kerry and McCain) are similar, but most people believe most politicians are rich anyways. We can get some mileage from this, but only a limited amount.

[CTLawGuy]

461. This is not the same as "purple heart bandaids"

Who does the media favor? There's a reason repugs can get away with ripping on Kerry's military service...

But hopefully the keys say something like "McCain's house keys" or something very obvious so that it minimizes media speculation.

[WinkyDink]

471. It was initially "supplies". Now it's "truckloads". No official source. I call hoax.

Even if it was on the Huffington Post.

[Alter Ego]

473. Just to be clear--the DNC is not doing this, correct?

[lamp_shade]

474. Jeezum. Real class. Oy.

[barack the house]

475. Another person made a valid point and it could get spun to mccains favor. Might be best to just ->

leave it.