Orange officials sue couple who removed their lawn

[n2doc]

City codes require that live landscaping cover 40% of the yard. Quan and Angelina Ha say their water use has dropped 80% since they replaced the grass with wood chips and drought-tolerant plants.


Angelina and Quan Ha walk through their frontyard with daughter Zella. After the city informed them that their property was not up to code, they added bark, fencing and drought-tolerant plants. (Glenn Koenig / Los Angeles Times / February 25, 2010)


By Amina Khan
March 2, 2010
Some Southern California cities fine residents for watering their lawns too much during droughts.

But in Orange, officials are locked in a legal battle with a couple accused of violating city ordinances for removing their lawn in an attempt to save water.

The dispute began two years ago, when Quan and Angelina Ha tore out the grass in their frontyard. In drought-plagued Southern California, the couple said, the lush grass had been soaking up tens of thousands of gallons of water -- and hundreds of dollars -- each year.

They said they were trying to do something good for the environment.

"We've got a newborn, so we want to start worrying about her future," said Quan Ha, an information technology manager for Kelley Blue Book.

more

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-bad-lawn2-2010mar02,0,3613612.story

[hobbit709]

1. Typical

a few years back the HOA at my brother's got on his case for planting non-xeriscape plants in his backyard and simultaneously getting on his case for replacing the dying St. Augustine with buffalo grass in his front yard.

[Froward69]

2. It is called " Xeriscape"

http://www.eartheasy.com/grow_xeriscape.htm

...And can be quite beautiful
http://images.google.com/images?q=xeriscape&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=ilyNS5ybFoqksgOxwNycAw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCAQsAQwAw

[jkshaw]

9. " ... And can be quite beautiful." Indeed.

For lovely xeriscape plants, look at High Country Gardens on line. Great stuff, including xeric plans, "hot spot" plantings.

[XemaSab]

60. I posted a thread in the Gardening forum last year about sourcing xeric plants

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=246x11929

[enlightenment]

3. In Las Vegas the Water District was (is? haven't checked recently)

offering two dollars a square foot as a rebate for xeriscaping. Those tools in Orange should be ashamed of themselves.

[Arctic Dave]

4. If they want to go a step further, get rid of the F'in SUV in their driveway.

[Kalyke]

10. Nothing wrong with that, per se:

A. It looks American in which case;
B. It's saving American unions and jobs and leaving profit on the table in THIS country.

However, I'm willing to bet that they can't trade it for value at this point and are trying to pay it down so they can get something else - as MOST middle income families have to do this day and age.

Edit: It IS American... it's a Ford Expedition. They get about an average (city/highway) of 16-17 mpg. That looks like a 1990s model.

They probably can't afford anything else right now.

[Arctic Dave]

12. Union labor makes fuel efficient cars also. Yes, its true.

[Kalyke]

13. Yes - I know - and they make better looking, more fuel-efficient

cars than the Japanese.

However, I'm guessing this is a lower middle class family who don't have the bucks to trade that Expedition in right now.

[cherokeeprogressive]

31. How in the world did you arrive at "lower middle class family"?

Looks like a nice, well-kept house to me. Next to the SUV is what appears to be a newer Lincoln LS.

Where do you get "lower middle class" from that picture?

[county worker]

35. Maybe you live differently than a lot of people. They may both work. Drive in different directions.

Made the mistake of their lives and bought a car with high payments, anyway like most of us, all their income goes to pay for bills and food. Some people pay more than others. Of course maybe we all should be made to drive some cheap fuel efficient car and all of us have the same moderate income and no more.

[cherokeeprogressive]

43. If I live differently from "a lot of people" it's because I try to avoid classifying people I don't

know and have never met. I see nothing at all in the picture that could even remotely suggest they are "lower middle class", a term which I think has negative connotations in the context it was used.

I grew up in that general area. Most Asians I met there were excellent money managers, who never bought more than they could afford when it came to houses, cars, etc. Those I knew bought only what they needed at the moment, and traded up later. I'd bet my bottom dollar that the Ha family in the picture are not using all their income to pay for bills and food. I'd also bet that they've already begun making arrangements for their child's college education.

I'd venture a guess that a Tech Manager for Kelly Blue Book makes a pretty penny, and knows where and when to buy good used vehicles by virtue of his profession.

I'd also lay even odds that Mrs. Ha doesn't work.

[county worker]

62. That house in Orange county cost around $200,000 10 years ago. It went up to near $500,000

just before the bubble broke. Now it is worth around $300,000. If people don't try to over extend themselves they have payments on a mortgage that takes a big chunk of the take home pay. 10 years ago that house cost around $1,200 per month. If you bought it at $500,000 you'd be paying around $3,000 and if you bought today the payments would be around $1,500 depending in each case what the down payment was. From that you can get a pretty good idea of the income. My guess is around $70,000. With a mortgage, two cars, other things my guess there isn't much left over.

[fishwax]

38. maybe from their lawn, which looks all dead and brown

j/k :)

[Kalyke]

46. Because this is in California.

I'm lower-middle class slowly climbing to middle, middle-class (on the cusp) and I live in Tennessee - but I have a bigger home on a larger lot. That's about what I would expect to have to purchase if I ever moved out there. I think it's a tiny house. Well-kept, yes, but tiny.

FWIW, I can be poor as dirt and have a well-kept house if I'm handy and industrious. Sounds to me like you're the one making assumptions.

[county worker]

33. Are you willing to buy it or do you mean they should run it over a cliff or something?

I wander how they are supposed to get rid of it? More than likely they owe money on it. Or did you not take that into consideration?

[Arctic Dave]

50. Cash for clunkers must have happened in their state.

[Mopar151]

37. How far do they drive it every week?

That's the real question.

[Arctic Dave]

51. No. Fuel effiency is the question.

[Mopar151]

64. Fuel efficency and economy is about more than MPG

It takes a lot of fuel to build a new car, and ship it. You have to save a LOT of gas to pay for a new hybrid, and most people do not have the ready cash to make an enviromental statement that does not produce ROI. And you have no idea how many people they carry around, or how much stuff. A 15 MPG car with 4 people in it gets better mileage than 4 people, each in their 55 mpg car. Hybrids, in particular, have major issues with load carrying capacity.

[951-Riverside]

39. Dave let me ask you. How do you think the food you eat gets to the store?

...No one ever complains about those 4 MPG big rigs on the road or those 2 MPG trains.

[Arctic Dave]

52. Your comment doesn't make sense. Are people driving them around town?

[seabeyond]

5. bah hahah, as they drive a big ole hunkin SUV to individually protect that infant at the cost

of environment and safety of others

their lawn (or lack of) is fine. not my business. just a hoot at the hypocrisy

[smoogatz]

8. It's a pretty modest house.

How do you know they can afford to replace a vehicle?

[Juneboarder]

25. Maybe a modest house, but...

still probably goes for over $500,000... yuck!

[Liberal_in_LA]

28. A house like that could have cost $700k or more in that area

[NeedleCast]

11. Because we shouldn't applaude people who are making some efforts

if they're not willing to meet our own personal penis-measuring stick of "who can be most green?"

[Kalyke]

15. +1,000

[Taitertots]

17. I don't applaud irrelevant non-efforts

"My city ride is a hybrid semi-truck, I compost my leftover caviar, I cook my fin whale on a solar oven, my 30 security lights are compact florescent, and my solid gold toilet is low flow."

[NeedleCast]

29. What's the non-effort here?

The measurement you seem to want to use it your own personal gauge for what should be considered green. That's not a fair comparison. You know nothing about these folks other than the very limited information in the article.

This is one of those issue where, if everyone did a little, no one would have to do a lot. My house isn't very energy efficient. I can't afford to sell it in this market. However, I've done what I can to maximize my energy efficiency without having to tear the thing down to the foundation. Florescent bulbs, keeping my heater/AC at a reasonable level (less than reasonable heating, according to my girlfriend).

The problem I have is that instead of recognizing that these peeps are doing something that is a step in the right direction, people are being critical of what they haven't done.

[Shell Beau]

18. Right. At least they are doing something.

But oh no, it is never good enough. Jeez.

[seabeyond]

40. wtf does it have to do with a penis???/ nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

44. The same thing driving a Hummer does. n/t

[seabeyond]

49. i dont see the hummer and the suv as the same "penis" measuring stick. i see

a reason people get the suv and a different reason people get the hummer

and both get to make their own choices, dont really care.

we all have part of ego and want in the vehicles we chose.

i thought it funny..... that is all

[NeedleCast]

45. Call it what you want

Point is, you know right next to nothing about these people but seem unwilling to applaud the efforts they ARE making and instead are mocking them on what they're not doing. Goes on all the time in any thread with environmental connections. It's the attitude fostered when you sit there going "well, I'm greener than YOU" while not having a clue to the circumstances behind their decision to own/drive an SUV.

Its the condecending attitude of the "not green enough!" crowed that mocks the efforts of others based on limited or no knowledge of the particular situation those "others" might be in.

Because right now someone "environmentalist" is sitting in their house in early March with their heater set on 75 and every light in their house on despite the fact that they're the only one home, looking across at their neighbor's SUV and going "they don't care about the environment..."

[seabeyond]

47. "lawn (or lack of) is fine. not my business." i think i can accuse you of the same thing with me..

again, another hoot... at the hypocrisy

and to tell me my agenda is i am greener than you is complete hooie on your part. lol. totally a made up statement you make about me that isnt even kinda a consideration for me.

[cherokeeprogressive]

54. They've decreased their water usage by 81%. Major props to them. n/t

[XemaSab]

57. Amen

n/t

[Dappleganger]

24. Our neighbor across the street has an SUV like that.

They bought it used in 2001 (I remember because we'd just moved into our house). Her husband works at a local Ford dealership, she stays at home with their two kids. The only places she drives it is back and forth to school and the grocery store (1-3 mile radius). Everywhere else they take his (also used) Ford Focus to save on gas. No, they can't afford another car right now and money is tight like it is for many in our neighborhood, but I don't fault her for what she drives.

[Juneboarder]

26. Just being the devil's advocate here...

what if the SUV belongs to the news reporter or photographer?

[Liberal_in_LA]

27. Ooh, good observation. ha ha.

[seabeyond]

42. i just thought it was funny. lol. i dont care what they drive either.

personal choices.

[npk]

55. Actually I took it from the story that they tore up their lawn strictly to save money

Not so much to save the environment. The couple said that it was costing them hundreds of dollars a month just to water their lawn. More than likely they are living on a tight budget in this economy, and pulling up the yard was more of a necessity to make ends meet rather than trying to save the world.

[seabeyond]

59. i can see all kinds of motives that aren't necessarily altruistic, yet still....

their yard, their choice.... as long as not a hazard to others

imho

[Warpy]

6. I hope it's a work in progress

because it looks like they've got quite a bit of filling in to do.

Some of the xeriscaped yards in my area are well established, in for 5 or more years, and they're just beautiful with desert flowers appearing all during the growing season.

I have a tree in the middle of my yard so my options are limited, but I did do drought tolerant plants in front of the portal. They're established and bloom in waves of purple, lavender and taxicab yellows.

Xeriscape really is the way to go out west. Unfortunately, HOAs are usually full of rigid martinets who will fight it every step of the way.

[gratuitous]

7. Know the local laws, request a variance, THEN make your changes

The preceding is not legal advice, and is not intended to function as such. Concerned persons should consult an attorney with expertise in land use laws for the locality in which they live or are contemplating living.

But it IS just plain common sense. No matter how well-intentioned your land use changes are, if you run counter to the law, you will be slapped down by the governing authority. It's a pain to make an application and present your plan, but it's far cheaper than just presenting the city, county or state with a fait accompli.

[Duer 157099]

14. I thought this was going to be about Boehner = "Orange Official" n/t

[Kali]

20. DUzy?!

:rofl:

[Cal Carpenter]

16. Fucking hysterical

that this thread is being hijacked to discuss the couples' choice of vehicle.

[redqueen]

34. Yep.

Well it's sad, really... but yeah.

[npk]

56. Welcome to DU where thread hijacking can be quite entertaining.

Just wait somebody will figure out a way to bring Obama and his mother-in-law into the discussion before days end.

[Taitertots]

19. Why do we have lawns in the first place?

What jerk decided that to fill the space we needed a fickle, water hungry, plant that needs constant maintenance?

[crispini]

22. Interestingly enough, the history of lawns goes back to England

in the late 1800s and they are indeed a symbol of wealth. If you could afford to keep that much non-productive land -- and all needing to be immaculately maintained -- then you were, indeed, affluent.

[npk]

63. It's a conspiracy between the John Deer corporation and the sprinkler manufacturers

Those bastards. We should all do like the Brady Bunch and install astro-turf lawns that require no maintenance.

[Trillo]

21. Is this what is meant by "grass roots organizing"?

:rofl:

On a slightly more serious note, it would seem typical that the city of Orange would be selling water from a related municipal entity. Why wouldn't they want to encourage its overuse.

[Codeine]

23. Orange County yuppies with an SUV.

These are the new poster children for the environmental movement? :eyes:

[NeedleCast]

30. That's a pretty judgemental position to take

House looks to be of modest size. What other indication do you have that these are yuppies? Hopefully you've got evidence other than a zip code.

[county worker]

32. I once got a letter from a homeowners association telling me that my grass wasn't green enough.

I stopped watering the lawn as often as before because the water bills went through the roof.

[hunter]

36. The first landscaping we did when we moved into our house -- we pulled up the front lawn.

We replaced it with low water, low maintenance stuff that can defend itself without pesticides or herbicides.

Orange County imports water to the detriment of natural environments throughout the state. They ought to be banning lawns.

Since we live in a nation that imports oil from nations that violate the civil rights their own people, we probably ought to be banning automobiles too.

[Kolesar]

65. Los Angeles consumes water that is pumped 2000 feet to clear a mountain pass

Did you use short grass prairie grass?

[AngryAmish]

41. Just because they like to tan a lot, I don't think name calling is appropriate

[Kalyke]

48. American-made (good) SUV (bad) arguments aside...

Why the hell can Orange County tell anyone what the hell to put in their lawn?

Is this a homeowner's association or the county, itself? The article seems to indicate that it is the county that is suing.

I wouldn't live in a county that dictated my lawn on such a minute scale. I don't live in an area with a fascist homeowner's association, either, for the same reason.

I'm all for sweeping regulations such as zoning laws and metropolitan planning to keep the roads and schools and drainage up-to-date with moving trends, but dictating the ratio of my grass to weeds to stone to dirt is a bit much!

Do they do this all over California, or just in this county? I am not a huge fan of that state and this is some of the reason why: nanny, nanny, nanny.

Edited to add: Or maybe some parts of California aren't all that inhabitable to begin with, so maybe people should take heed to Mother Nature's warnings and get the fuck out of these areas.

[belpejic]

53. At first I thought this had something to do with "Leader" Boner... n/t

[Hell Hath No Fury]

58. California of all places --

should just ban lawns all together and go with native grasses and/or xeriscaping. We are plagued with droughts here regularly, and, even in good times, lawns are a usless thing to waste such a prescious resource on and require far too any damaging checmicals/fertilizers.

[krabigirl]

61. Totally ridiculous! They could plant a few more low-water using plants but this is nuts.

Where are the conservatives in OC? Don't they usually get upset about "government intrusion into our lives"? Oh, wait...not when it comes to maintaining suburban sterility.

[Hepburn]

66. UPDATE: City May Drop Charges Against Couple Who Removed Their Lawn

ORANGE -- The city of Orange is considering dropping the case against a couple cited for refusing to landscape their front yard.

...

Angelina Ha says she sent mailed photos of the yard with the fence and drought-resistant plants to the city's code-enforcement department in November.

The couple says they never heard back from Orange officials and thought they were in the clear.

The city now says it re-examined the Ha's yard and determined the property does meet city standards.

http://www.ktla.com/news/local/ktla-orange-family-possible-jail,0,7041566.story

This is nuts -- the couple could have got SIX MONTHS IN JAIL for the freaking wood chips in their yard!

WTF!?!?!?!?!

BTW...in this pic, the SUV is gone:

[Liberal_in_LA]

67. good news