Olympia man's slurred speech leads to misadventure (arrest) with police

[Newsjock]

Source: The Olympian

An Olympia man who slurs his speech because of a traumatic brain injury he suffered in a 1999 fall says police wrongfully arrested him in March because they mistook his disability for intoxication.

Ryan Dinsmore, 33, was arrested and handcuffed on suspicion of driving under the influence while en route to the city jail to visit a friend who was being held there.

... A second officer, drug-recognition expert Bryan Wyllie, arrived to assist.

Wyllie searched the vehicle and found nothing illegal. A police report says Dinsmore then was arrested and taken to the police station, where he registered a 0.00 on a Breathalyzer test, which detects blood-alcohol level.

Wyllie still "found probable cause to believe Dinsmore was under the influence of a CNS (central nervous system) depressant and unable to operate a motor vehicle safely," the report says.

... Dinsmore's mother said that last year, Tenino police reacted similarly, forcing him to take sobriety tests when he went to the police department to get insurance information for a vehicle that had struck his parked car. However, he was not arrested.

Read more: http://www.theolympian.com/news/story/445442.html

[glowing]

1. Should this man actually be driving? If he is being pulled over for

suspicion of driving under the influence? Perhaps he shouldn't be operating a motorized vehicle.

[parasim]

2. Guess you didn't read the article

He wasn't "pulled over", he had stopped to ask a cop directions to his destination.

[glowing]

8. Thank you.. no, I didn't... Wish it was in the original portion.. would make more sense.

[muriel_volestrangler]

3. He wasn't pulled over - he stopped to ask the police for directions

Dinsmore said that when he stopped his car near City Hall about 6:15 p.m. March 15 to ask an officer, listed in the police report as B. Anderson, for directions to the jail, she asked how much he had been drinking and told him he seemed as though he was using drugs or under the influence of alcohol.

Don't Olympia police have portable breathalysers?

[Evergreen Emerald]

4. drugs would not show up on a breathalyser

[Fumesucker]

10. Alcohol *is* a drug........ n/t

[Evergreen Emerald]

11. my point is that when he blew a zero on the Breathalyzer it did not end there

because his behavior suggested some sort of substance. Only alcohol shows up on a PBT (and Olympia does have those), drugs do not.

[pattmarty]

14. That's a bunch of bullshit. See post #13.

[Evergreen Emerald]

17. I am not certain which part of my post you are suggesting is BS?

Breathalysers only show alcohol.
Blood is required to show drugs.

If they thought he was high on something and knew it was not alcohol (because of the 0.00 reading) they would next think of drugs.

[pattmarty]

25. The part about "his behavior suggested". AGAIN, read my post #13.

[Fumesucker]

23. I understood your point..

And my point is that when you say "drugs wouldn't show up on a breathalyzer" you are contributing to the idea that alcohol is not a drug..

*Everyone* thinks that way, including people who should know better like my MD brother in law.

Very down on "drugs", including pot, but he drinks alcohol quite a bit, to the point of puking sometimes.

[Evergreen Emerald]

24. I see.

And you are correct. I should rephrase: the only drug that shows up on the breathalyser is alcohol.

[DiverDave]

7. Such a big heart, how do you do it?

you need to get a little empathy...and, no, you cant buy it.

[TommyO]

9. And perhaps you need to gain some understanding and compassion.

[Warpy]

19. I've known stroke survivors to be harassed by cops

in subway stations because of unsteady gait and slurred speech. I had taken care of them at some point and intervened, but I have no idea how often it happened to them.

I always wanted to have cards printed out, "I have a disability, not a drinking problem."

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. He needs to take along a letter from his doctor

or something perhaps from a court describing his condition so that he isn't locked up with 0% alcohol in his system. As for people thinking those with traumatic brain injuries can't operate a vehicle--perhaps it was only the part of the brain involving speech that was damaged. To deny this person the right to drive when the part of the brain involving hand/eye/foot coordination is fine is not right. It would be tantamount to telling my cousin, who is deaf and does not speak, that she cannot drive a car.

[Frances]

12. Good suggestion

[FlaGranny]

6. My husband slurs his words

because he had part of his tongue removed for cancer. He hasn't been stopped by the police or had any contact with police. I hope he doesn't.

[pattmarty]

13. The bottom line here people, is that ALL of our...............

.....police depts are turning into paramilitaries with automatic weapons, tank like vehicles, flash grenades, and the new weapon, tasers. Look at "Cops" on TV, and tell me that we don't have a "police" state. What the fuck does it mean when a cop tells you that you are not under arrest, but are being "detained" (in hand cuffs yet).

[khaos]

26. yes, we live in a police state. it will get worse.

[pattmarty]

28. Well, after November I hope it changes, but I am not very confident.

[izquierdista]

15. "Drug-recognition expert"

HAH! The only thing Officer Wyllie has expertise in is being a fascist thug. I haven't been trained to be a "drug-recognition expert", yet I can tell after a while if I'm talking to a drunk or someone with a neural deficit.

The fact that they continued to persist in their suspicion after he provided a reasonable explanation for his behavior is another example of the "us vs. them" mentality of the police. They have been conditioned to go on the assumption that they will encounter criminals everywhere they go and that they are to apprehend and incarcerate them, so that is what they do. They have no idea that the vast majority of people going about their business everyday are NOT criminals and do NOT need a ride to the local slammer to help them out.

[pattmarty]

16. Amen, brother/sister. See my post #13.

[bean fidhleir]

18. I thought it was nice that the "expert" called the victim "argumentative"

Doubtless it was because the victim refused to admit being a drunk or doper.

Some expert!

The answers we get depend on the questions we ask.

[Turbineguy]

21. When your only tool is a hammer

everything looks like a nail.

[Wizard777]

20. I have a friend with the same problem. His brain injury was from a car wreck.

He talks loud and slurs his speech like he was drunk. I can see the officers position. Especially with him driving. My friend doesn't drive. But how else can the officer be sure he's not drunk? If he was drunk and drove down the road and killed someone. Do you think their next of kin will want to hear that he told the officer he had a brain injury and she let him go? I'm not a cop. But even if I did believe him. I would want to prove the brain injury by disproving intoxication. It's a whole lot easier for the police to do a breathalyzer than a CAT scan.

[izquierdista]

30. Yes it's a whole lot easier

to call the cop a "drug recognition expert" and let him assume all off normal behavior is due to drug intoxication. I will bet that this cop's training was all in how to spot symptoms of drug intoxication and NONE in how other conditions (MS, brain injury, etc.) can result in intoxication type symptoms.

I'm glad that when my dad was pulled over, that cop recognized that he needed medical attention and that he ended up in the hospital and not in jail. Of course, that was many years ago, before the "war on drugs" turned every cop into a "drug recognition expert".

[aasleka]

22. A breathylyzer and inspecting the reaction time of dilation of the pupils?

That's what they used when I was a kid.

[uppityperson]

27. A parent had MS, ended up carrying a cane long before needed one due to things like this

Kept getting stared at, watched, etc, when went in public with unstable gait. Finally started carrying a cane so people would understand it was a physical disability, not drunk.

Though it is a pain, it seems like this guy will need to carry a doctor's note, and hope that that helps.

[rocktivity]

29. He needs to have something to that effect put on his driver's license

Then at least the cops would have a clue.

:headbang:
rocknation

[bean fidhleir]

31. When cops fail to consider all possibilities, and fail to treat the person

as innocent, I think the chief should take a big hit - like maybe a month's pay - for "failure to supervise" or "failure to train". And maybe after the third time, be sacked.

[pattmarty]

33. How 'bout like being fired, and never being allowed to work in this hemisphere again?

[Yavapai]

32. This happened last year in the mountains of Northern Arizona

Diabetic Man Kicked Off Train, Now Missing

A 65-year-old St. Louis man is missing after Amtrak personnel, mistaking his diabetic shock for drunk and disorderly behavior, kicked him off a train in the middle of a national forest, according to police in Williams, Ariz.

Police said Roosevelt Sims was headed to Los Angeles but was asked to leave the train shortly before 10 p.m. Sunday at a railroad crossing five miles outside Williams, reported KPHO-TV in Phoenix.

"He was let off in the middle of a national forest, which is about 800,000 acres of beautiful pine trees," Lt. Mike Graham said.

Police said there is no train station or running water at the crossing, which is about two miles from the nearest road, at an elevation of about 8,000 feet.

Amtrak personnel told police dispatchers that Sims was drunk and unruly.

The Sims family said Sims is diabetic and was going into shock.

Sims' brother, Brian Mason, said his family tried to call Sims on his cell phone that night, but Sims was incoherent.

When officers arrived at the crossing, police said, Sims ran into the woods, leaving his luggage and medication behind.

Cell phone records show that Sims' phone was last used in Litchfield Park, Ariz., 180 miles from Williams.

Williams police said Amtrak has used the abandoned crossing as a drop-off site in the past, the television station reported. Graham said that whether drunk or not, no one should be dropped off there.

"You don't put anyone off in an area like that," Graham said.

Amtrak said the company is looking into the matter.

"I just want to find him," Mason said. "I'm not mad at anybody."

"I want to find a way to make sure he's OK," Mason added.

"Our thoughts and prayers are that there's no way he's out there in those woods," Graham said.


BTW, he was found by a search a day or so later, dehydrated and disorientated wandering in the national forest

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

34. They probably should have called an ambulance or 1st responders when he passed the breathalyzer.

and claimed the head injury. Cops hear every excuse though. Let's see slurred speech, abnormal gate, poor balance and combative attitude combined with little or no medical training. I may not have handled it this way but to say these cops should be fired or disciplined in any way is asinine.


David

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

35. How often do you get pulled over?

Given the problem is a reoccurring one it would indeed seem logical for the guy to carry a letter from a doctor explaining his condition along with his insurance card or registration. I think that's a no brainier given the conditions we deal with in the every day world -guns ,drugs and alcohol. The really really every day world the average people live in.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

36. I agree, even a medic alert bracelet would have helped.

Maybe twice a year to answer your question though. The last time was for tail lights, my fuse blew. He just pulled me over to tell me. I haven't had a ticket in years.

David

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

38. That's what I mean

Once in a while it's a tail light or something. I have to wonder if the guy is in denial about his condition.In his mind there is nothing at all wrong,but does he think about how other people and or police will access his situation?Some people have a hard time turning a full circle when addressed with a problem-look at it from all perspectives. If he would just simply provide himself with his medical cover ,chances are his hardships with the police would be less than rather than greater.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

39. I concur.

[JonQ]

37. I don't think the guy should have been arrested but .. .

let's apply Occam's razor here: you see a guy with slurred speech, poor balance and eyes that won't track properly. Is it more likely that he's suffering from a disability, or simply drunk/high? I'm guessing most cops, and hell most of us, see more drunk people behaving this way than we do people with central nervous system damage.

Yeah he said he had a disability, fine. And if everyone were 100% honest that should have been enough. But I don't think it'd be a good idea to simply take at face value any claim made by someone who appears intoxicated. If cops make a habit of letting go every individual who appears drunk or high, but claims a disability, merely by their statement and nothing else, would that make our streets more or less safe? I'm guessing less safe.

Like I said, it sucks for him, he did nothing wrong but was punished anyway. However I'm not so quick to call for all cops in the area to be permanently removed from their jobs for behaving in a way that would have been appropriate 99.9% of the time.

One of the guys in the article mentioned that they are printing up cards for people in this situation to avoid these sorts of problems. I'd recommend he get one.