So Palin made a choice to bring her pregnancy to term, knowing that she was carrying

[question everything]

a child with Down Syndrome. Good for her. She made her choice.

And McCain is against abortion.

But where do the two of them stand about birth control pills? IUDs?

That Palin had a child with Down Syndrome is sad but not surprising. The chances of this grow with the age of the mother. So what will the Palins do now? Exercise birth control? Risk the birth of another Down Syndrome child, or... abstain?

This is not sticking my nose into the private life of others. As the Bush administration is ready to declare birth control bills "abortive agents," as insurance companies do not cover birth control pills (but do Viagra), as independent pharmacists refuse to fill birth control prescriptions (not to mention Plan B) I think that the voters need to know where the candidates stand.

As a matter of fact, I think that Obama should declare that one of his first executive orders will be to reverse this directive.

[Middle finga]

1. I wish someone ask her what's her view on birth control.

she's still young enough to get pregnant

[Iris]

2. clearly.

[Warpy]

3. Her actions around the birth indicate a wish that

the child would never come to be.

Face it, giving a speech and taking two plane rides totaling 11 hours and going to a small town clinic instead of a big city hospital all add up to not wanting the best for the unborn baby.

It looks like she was bucking for a stillbirth, the latest term abortion possible.

"Choose life," my ass.

[cassomatic]

4. Wish or not

But she doesn't even believe in abortion in cases of rape, incest or harm to the mother, so it probably wouldn't have mattered if she were close to losing the baby...she still wouldn't have given it up b/c that's "a sin."

[zorahopkins]

5. "Sad"??!!

"That Palin had a child with Down Syndrome is sad but not surprising"

What's so sad about it?

Palin made a choice -- and her choice was to have her child.

It's the CHOICE that we should celebrate.

I see NOTHING at all sad about the fact that Palin made a choice.

[iverglas]

6. out of context much?

The actual complete thought in the post you replied to was:

That Palin had a child with Down Syndrome is sad but not surprising.
The chances of this grow with the age of the mother.

Surely the chances of someone choosing to continue a pregnancy to delivery aren't what grow with the age of the mother.

Quite obviously, what the poster considered "sad" was the fact that the child has Down Syndrome -- which actually is what the chances of grow with the age of the mother.

I don't really know how anyone could have read that any other way. Unfortunate, if you did.

[zorahopkins]

7. Palin Made A Choice -- HER Choice

I'll repeat what I said earlier.

Palin made a choice.

It was HER choice to make.

The fact that some here apparently consider the birth of a disabled child to be a "sad" event speaks volumes about how some view disabled people.

I'm sad that there are people who would view the birth of a disabled child as being "sad".

I think it is sad that there are people who think that the birth of a less than perfect child is "sad".

[HockeyMom]

8. Choice works both ways

Choice to have a Downs Baby, choice to not have a Downs Baby. Choice to have 5 kids, choice to have no kids.

As long as everyone is in agreement that neither side has the right to force their choices on anyone else. That is problem with the other side so to speak. The Palin's of the world would force their choices on everybody else.

[zorahopkins]

9. Of Course It Does!

Of course choice works both ways!

There are some who would suggest that it is "sad" to give birth to a child that is not perfect in every way.

There are some who would not be able to understand how someone could actually be happy giving birth to a disabled child.

Projecting one's own feelings onto another person is one subtle way of saying that a person was "wrong" in making the choice she did.

[iverglas]

11. you know, you're right there

There are some who would not be able to understand how someone could actually be happy giving birth to a disabled child.

I, for one, find it difficult to understand -- in the case of a child who in all likelihood faces ill health and pain throughout life, as many children with disabilities do. Why would someone be happy to have this happen? Because having a child satisfies some need/desire of his/her own, and s/he doesn't care that this is done at the expense of the pain and problems the child will endure?

Myself, I'm infuriated by people who say that their disabled children have taught them so much, that the way they can smile through their pain and problems has been an inspiration and lesson to everyone who meets them.

Human beings are not objects, and are not means to others' ends. No one is born in order to teach someone else a lesson or set someone else an example. I think it's immensely sad that someone would think that the pain suffered by one person is offset by the pleasure s/he brings to someone else.

So I just thought I'd say that.


Projecting one's own feelings onto another person is one subtle way of saying that a person was "wrong" in making the choice she did.

Pretty desperate. And really dumb.

[zorahopkins]

13. Huh?

"Myself, I'm infuriated by people who say that their disabled children have taught them so much, that the way they can smile through their pain and problems has been an inspiration and lesson to everyone who meets them."

But I never said anything like that, did I?

"Human beings are not objects, and are not means to others' ends. No one is born in order to teach someone else a lesson or set someone else an example. I think it's immensely sad that someone would think that the pain suffered by one person is offset by the pleasure s/he brings to someone else.

And just who is this "someone" you refer to?

Why do you keep commenting on arguments that no one has even made?

[iverglas]

14. I guess all I can say is:

"Why do you keep commenting on arguments that no one has even made?"

You haven't answered that one yet. And that was the first thing I asked.

[zorahopkins]

15. Actually

Actually, from the look at the length of your posts here, it appears that there is quite a lot more you can (and do!) say.

And about that "first thing you asked" thing, I don't see it.

[Book Lover]

19. Jesus, both sides of the coin here...

Have you never learned something from living with someone? I have learned many things I never would have by being the parent of a disabled child. Like how people like you and zorahopkins should avoid objectifying disabled people in both directions.

[iverglas]

21. excuse me

Like how people like you and zorahopkins should avoid objectifying disabled people in both directions.

Now feel right free to substantiate that allegation as it relates to me.

[zorahopkins]

22. No, Excuse ME!

Like how people like you and zorahopkins should avoid objectifying disabled people in both directions.

Now feel right free to substantiate that allegation as it relates to me.

[iverglas]

10. what seems to be your problem????

What you said earlier was actually quite a different kettle of fish. What you said earlier was:

I see NOTHING at all sad about the fact that Palin made a choice.

I'll take your present post, in which you completely fail to address my comment on that statement, to be a retraction of your implication that someone had said that.


The fact that some here apparently consider the birth of a disabled child to be a "sad" event speaks volumes about how some view disabled people.

You do seem to have a bee in your bonnet.

No, surely you're right. Surely every parent who learns that his/her child has Down Syndrome is overjoyed at the news. No parent would ever be saddened by it. No parent would be saddened by the knowledge that his/her child faces a life filled with complications that most children do not face, including both physical health problems and socioeconomic problems. No parent would be saddened by the thought that eventually, even if s/he devotes his/her remaining lifespan to caring for the child, the adult child will be left parentless and without the supports that s/he needs to a far greater extent than other adult children.

No, saying that this outcome was sad, that was meant as denigration of people with disabilities. (shouldn't you get the lingo right if you're going to go kicking up stinks on their behalf?)

Get a grip. And find something important to gripe about.

[zorahopkins]

12. I Have No Problem

No problem at all.

You got a problem with that?

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Book Lover]

18. I am the parent of a disabled child

and there is much sadness that comes with it. Much joy also. Like everything else that comes with parenthood.

[Quantess]

16. Who cares about an onlookers' opinion of someone having a baby with a birth defect?

Why does their opinion matter, whether the onlooker sees it as sad, uplifting, burdensome, or majestic? It isn't their baby.

People have their opinions, and you may not like them. In the case of a woman making a choice whether to go ahead with a pregnancy such as this, onlookers are going to try to persuade opinions, but the only opinion that really matters is that of the pregnant woman and her family members.

[Thomas246]

17. Child with Downs Syndrome and stance on abortion

If she's against abortion i figure that's her business.I could care less.However-if McCain/Palin win the election i fully expect them to do everything in their power to outlaw a womans right to choose.I believe a couple supreme court justices may retire during next admin.My guess is they'll appoint "pro-life" judges.Back to the dark ages:(

[Heidi]

20. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[uppityperson]

23. To answer the ? about OCs/IUDs, she is against IUDs of course.

Since Life (tm) begins at the moment of fertilization and and IUD may prevent a fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus. I haven't been able to figure out her stance on using oral contraceptives to prevent ovulation, but know she is against using Plan B (aka morning after pill) which is a high dose of OCs taken to prevent fertilization and, in some cases, implantation.