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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-11 03:32 PM
Original message
Private Schools ‘Counsel Out’ the Unsuccessful
Thousands of parents trying to get their children into private schools are now busy mailing thank-you cards to admissions offices and biting their nails while waiting for word back.

But for a small number of parents who prevailed through this gantlet in the past, this time of year brings another kind of notice — that their child is on thin ice — as an even more painful process begins: the “counseling out” of students who are not succeeding.

Not discussed on schools’ tours or in their glossy pamphlets, counseling out is nonetheless a matter of practice at many private schools. Unlike the public school system, private schools are not obligated, and often not set up, to handle children having trouble keeping up.

“There are some kids that we’re not going to renew,” said Pamela J. Clarke, the head of the Trevor Day School in Manhattan, “either because they can’t do the work and we’re not serving them, or generally, that might be combined with behavior issues we can’t win.”

“That means he or she needs a different school,” Ms. Clarke said.

(snip)

When Sandra Klihr’s son William started to slip at the Collegiate School, the standard-bearer of all-boys education on the Upper West Side, the school plied him with extra help. But the fast-paced classes nonetheless became frustrating and demoralizing. He was removed in the fourth grade.

“The school just sat down with us and said, ‘You know, he seems really miserable, and we feel like we’d already given him one-on-one,’ ” Ms. Klihr said. He ended up at the Summit School in Queens and is now in high school, getting good grades at the Smith School on the Upper West Side, two of a small number of alternative schools that cater to children with learning or emotional troubles who have not succeeded at other schools.

To keep their children in the schools, some parents pile on tutors or turn to intensive programs like the one at Lindamood-Bell Learning Processes, whose five-week, four-hours-a-day afterschool reading course costs $11,500. Parents “know that the child is struggling,” said Jennifer Egan, the director of the Lindamood-Bell center in New York City, but do all they can to stay in their chosen schools. “It feels like a defeat to some people.”

Though sometimes effective, the litany of tutors can overwhelm an already stressed child. “There’s a point where it’s destructive,” said Carla Howard Horowitz, an educational evaluator, who helps guide students in this betwixt state. By the time she is called in, Ms. Horowitz said, schools have often already made up their minds about the student.

Jesse Statman won a high school math award while in eighth grade at Bay Ridge Preparatory School in Brooklyn. But in other subjects he lagged behind. To keep him focused, he needed an aide beside him in class. He also had trouble getting along with his classmates.

Eventually the school suggested that Jesse leave, said his father, Mark, who resisted at first. Parents “don’t always see what’s best; we see what looks like it would be best,” Mr. Statman said. “I can tell people that my kid’s in an Ivy League school, or goes to Andover, or goes to Choate — that doesn’t always translate into a good experience for the kid.”

Jesse pinballed around several programs for students who have troubles in school before landing at Smith. His father said he was doing much better there and had been accepted at Eugene Lang College, part of the New School, where Mr. Statman is a professor.

Full story: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/06/nyregion/06private.html

My comments: Education is a good thing, but too much of it can be harmful, as this article reports. Also, do you find that these families who obsessively want to keep their kids in private schools narcissistic or what? Maybe they should participate in Wife Swap or one of those reality shows with middle class public school families struggling to pay their mortgages!
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-11 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. that's why private schools appear to do a better job than public schools
they get to dump their "problems" on the public school system

Getting rid of your bottom 10% sure makes the average look better
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-11 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. That's actually just a RW talking point: private schools do not average better than public schools
There are pockets of excellence with private schools, just as there are with public schools. The national average for private schools vs public schools is about the same. This exposes the privatization of schools is nothing but a fraud used as an excuse to remove money from the public sphere and spread it out to private for-profit companies. The Obama Administration's complicity in this is telling to me of his true political beliefs, despite his insistence that he is a Democrat --yeah, him and Blanche Lincoln.
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-11 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I was speaking from experience as a Catholic school attendee
I don't believe charters or any other private school does better than public schools at instruction

I do think private institutions "goose" their ratings by excluding difficult and low achieving students

Every year, the Catholic school I went to would ask certain troublesome students not to come back. They were fairly open about dumping behavioral problems on the public school system
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-11 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I see
I was speaking of national averages, which includes religious schools. Even with their dumping "problem" children back onto the public schools the for-profit schools do no better on average. I'm definitely not disagreeing with you.
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frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-11 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. Actually, I always found ...
that the kids who went to private school where we raised our kids were precisely the kids who WERE having problems (either academic or behavioral) and couldn't make it in the public schools. Of course, these were good public schools, and had much more to offer to smart, industrious kids than a smaller private school filled with a lot of wealthy but troubled kids --more higher level math and science courses and labs, just a larger number of course offerings and more peer competition than the small private schools could provide.

Of course, in somewhere like NYC, the prestige factor will always send kids to the elite private schools, and yes, these schools will weed out the failing students because there are always more rich kids trying to get in. But back in my day, the REALLY smart kids went to Bronx Science or Stuyvesant.

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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-11 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. These parents think their children will get a better education and
in some cases that may be true, at this point in time. However, suburban public schools service students just as well as private institutions and have the standard class size. It is the urban public schools that are having the most problems.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
15. Even the urban schools are doing pretty well
We're looking at the highest graduation rate and the lowest school violence rate ever.

College profs are complaining that kids are showing up unable to write or do math, and employers are complaining graduates lack important skills, and we probably do need to improve in those areas, but I also imagine professors and employers have always said that and always will.
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Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-11 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. The crazy thing is
right now I'm look at colleges to transfer to, now I'm not the greatest student. My GPA is around 2.8 or so but I got into 2 private school no problem, I didn't get into one "state" school I wanted to go to and I'm waiting to here back from another "state" school. It seems easy to get into private universities then public ones. Its freaking ridiculous.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-11 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
5. I had a friend to whom that happend years ago
The school tried to counsel him and his parents out because of his low grades (he was well-behaved), but my friend and his parents said, "thanks for your concern, but we are going to stay."

The next semester they blocked him from registering and told him he could reapply in a year if he demonstrated better progress at another school.

He actually did improve, but his private school still would not let him back in.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-11 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
6. Well duh
They've been doing this for centuries in private schools.
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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-11 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
7. "Keep up your grades (B+ at my school), or there is the door."
"There are plenty of kids waiting to take your seat and you can go to PUBLIC SCHOOL." I heard this CONSTANTLY, back in the 1960s.

WHAT don't these imbecile Repukes not understand about this? VOUCHERS mean SQUAT. If you have an A+ average and are a star basketball/football player, you will get a SCHOLARSHIP to these schools. You need a HOOK (very high grades or sports) to get in, not stupid vouchers. Then you have to MAINTAIN your grades, and your sport.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-11 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
8. I hate to say this
In response to your comment, but a lot of the motivation--not all of course--is a compulsive need to avoid any contact with "those people", the "other" in public schools: the working class and minorities.

A good many affluent parents insist on sheltering their children from the very safe (usually white) and privileged world in which they live. Hence the kids are raised in that background and they stay in it throughout life: elite colleges, fraternities and sororities, exclusive country clubs and the good ole' boy network (or Stepford wife network).
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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-11 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Haha, right on. I was also sorta thinking about that brat named George W. Bush
aka the signer of NCLB, the root of many of public education's modern troubles.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. There's a more charitable way to put it
Parents in DC flood to charter schools for largely the same reason: to keep their kid away from "bad kids" in the public schools. In some ways it makes sense: if a kid's parent(s) is/are involved enough to go through the hoops of getting into a charter, that's sort of a proxy for their being involved in the kid's education at all, which is a proxy for a better-behaved kid. Parents want their children in a class where there other children's parents are also invested in the kids' education.

*shrug* I don't know. Maybe the answer is more public magnets rather than charters. DC at least is also cracking down on EMOs (the companies that run some charter schools, not the kids who wear mascara and cry a lot -- though again in DC "emo" means punk bands that wear suits, oddly enough). But then again charters have to take all comers and magnets don't.
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PM Martin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-11 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
9. Private schools are notorious for accepting only those students
with above average grades. If your grades are below average, your parents better have $$$$$$$$ to give if you want that education.
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