Students Protest Grand Jury Subpoenas of the Irvine 11

[Modern School]

In conservative Orange County, California, more than 50 protesters — some with tape over their mouths — protested in front of the district attorney's office Tuesday, trying to stop the subpoenas and grand jury investigation against 11 students who disrupted a speech by the Israeli ambassador last year.


The Irvine 11 had disrupted a talk by Micheal Oren, the Israeli ambassador to the U.S., by shouting over him, forcing him to stop in the middle of his speech. Eventually they were arrested and removed by the police.


The dean of UC Irvine’s law school, Erwin Chemerinsky, said that what the students did was “not freedom of expression. . . I favor them being punished by the university because what they did was wrong.” However, it was freedom of expression; he just didn’t happen to like their message or style. What the students did was heckle the ambassador, a form of protest with a long tradition in this country, engaged in by many, including politicians of both parties. To his credit, though, the dean did contest the use of a grand jury, stating that the university’s discipline was sufficient.


As a result of the incident, the Muslim Student Union was suspended by the university for one year, one of the only times that the school has banned a student group for anything other than hazing or alcohol abuse. This excessive disciplinary action by the university, and especially the use of the grand jury by the county, is already having a chilling effect on student free speech. Many have expressed shock at the excessiveness of the response and are questing whether it is safe to particpate in protests in the future .

Modern School
http://modeducation.blogspot.com/

[SDuderstadt]

1. Sorry...

it's not "freedom of expression" to suppress someone else's freedom of expression. That's profoundly warped thinking.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. Tell that to the teabaggers

They won elections this past November and they started their march to victory by disrupting town hall meetings.

[SDuderstadt]

7. Should we emulate the teabaggers?

It's a contradiction in terms to claim free expression allows you to suppress someone else's free expression.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. Their methods worked

Think about it.

[SDuderstadt]

9. WTF?

Do you think we should abandon our long revered respect for free expression by emulating the teabaggers because it worked for them? We should abandon our progressive principles? How would we be different than the teabaggers then?

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. I think we should do whatever it takes to win elections

Being polite and letting THEM shout us down didn't work too well for us this last election.

[SDuderstadt]

11. If we adopt their tactics...

how would we be different than them?

Do you honestly not see the contradiction in claiming a free expression right to deny it to someone else?

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. Their tactics WORKED

If we adopt their tactics, we might win some elections.

If we continue to sit back and play nice, they are going to run all over us. What have we accomplished THEN?

[SDuderstadt]

13. So, we abandon our principles and...

become like them?

Forgive me, but I am not willing to abandon the principle of free expression nor am I willing to co-opt that principle in some bizarre formulation that sees suppressing the free expression of anyone else as, in any way, free expression itself.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. Only if we want to win.

[SDuderstadt]

15. Nice either/or argument...

Do you see the flaw in your thinking?

[Modern School]

16. The Israeli Lobby "Shouts" Over It's Critics

Heckling may not be nice. It may seem rude. It is also sometimes necessary when dangerous, racist ideas are the only ones that get a fair hearing. Anyone who criticizes the Israeli government is "shouted" down as an anti-semite.

[aquart]

2. "Shouting over" is what the right wing does to us.

And you think that's how freedom of speech works?

[midnight]

3. Can you imagine that... Suspended for a whole year for talking out of place?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

5. Heckling at that level is not "lalking out of place"

Also makes us look juvenile.

[bluestateguy]

4. Shouting speakers down does not seem to be consistent with the intent of the 1st Amendment

Heckling is childish and infantile. It makes your cause look petty and weak.