S 1959 'Thought Crimes' Bill violates the Hughes-Ryan Act

[EVDebs]

S. 1959: Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s110-1959

and the House version passed as HR 1955

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1955

violates the Hughes-Ryan Act (intelligence oversight act)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hughes-Ryan_Act

"The Hughes-Ryan Act is a 1974 United States federal law that amended the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961. The Act was named for its co-authors, Senator Harold E. Hughes (D-Iowa) and Representative Leo Ryan (D-CA). The Act required the President of the United States to report all covert operations of the Central Intelligence Agency to one or more Congressional committees within a set time limit.

This amendment addressed the question of CIA and Defense Department covert actions, and prohibited the use of appropriated funds for their conduct unless and until the President issues an official "Finding" that each such operation is important to the national security and submits these Findings to the appropriate Congressional committees — a total of six committees, at the time, growing to eight committees after the House and Senate "select committees" on intelligence were established.

The legislation was meant to ensure that the intelligence oversight committees within Congress were told of CIA actions within a reasonable time limit.<1> Senator Hughes, in introducing the legislation in 1973, also saw it as a means of limiting major covert operations by military, intelligence, and national security agents conducted without the full knowledge of the president."

Domestic operations of the CIA and intelligence agencies in general, conducted without congressional oversight and findings, such as that would it be a serious matter of national security to think that the Jersey Girl's activities in promoting efforts to reexamine the 9-11 Commission findings were erroneous, could be enacted without such findings per S. 1959 and HR 1955.

Thought crimes could be enacted. These bills need to be challenged in the Senate.

[Mojorabbit]

1. I wrote an email to both my senators

about it and Martinez sent me this pile of trash.
Dear Ms. mojorabbit:

Thank you for letting me know your concerns regarding the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 (H.R. 1955). I appreciate hearing from you.

Our nation is currently at war with a ruthless enemy who exploits the openness of our free society, has no regard for human life, and is prepared to go to any lengths to harm our people and our allies. It is imperative that we engage in a robust effort to gather intelligence information from suspected terrorists, and that we understand and address the root causes of terrorism to avoid future attacks on the American people. These goals can be accomplished without undermining our Constitutional civil liberties.

As you know, on October 23, 2007, the House of Representatives adopted H.R. 1955 by a 404 to 6 vote. This bill would authorize several measures to analyze and prevent terrorism in our nation, including looking at what other nations have done in this area. Section 899F of this bill explicitly prohibits these efforts from violating the constitutional rights of U.S. Citizens and legal residents to ensure that we remain well within our constitutional framework as we protect our nation.

H.R. 1955 currently awaits consideration by the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs. My highest priority is to safeguard our homeland. Please know that I will keep your concerns in mind should the full Senate consider the provisions of this bill.

Again, thank you for sharing your views with me. Do not hesitate to contact me with any additional questions or comments you may have. For more information about issues and activities important to Florida, please sign up for my weekly newsletter at http://martinez.senate.gov.

Sincerely,

Mel Martinez
United States Senator

[EVDebs]

3. NON-violent dissent is a target of these bills.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=73360&mesg_id=73399

I thought members of Congress were sworn to preserve protect and defend the Constitution, not dismantle it with subtrefuges like these bills.

[Bolo Boffin]

6. That is a lie.

Violence is specifically the target.

Constitutional and civil rights are specifically declared off-limits in this bill.

Please stop lying about this bill, EVDebs.

[EVDebs]

8. No, that is my thought crime according to you. nt

[EVDebs]

9. BTW, don't carry an almanac, whatever you do LOL !

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/12/29/fbi.almanacs.ap/

[DCKit]

10. Sweetie, are you sure Mel wasn't talking about the Bush administration as the enemy of the U.S.? n/t

[Bolo Boffin]

2. Please state the SPECIFIC part of either S. 1959 or H.R. 1955

that would allow CIA surveillance operations inside the US without Congressional oversight.

Now would be good.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1955

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s110-1959

You are just hyping more bullshit about this bill, EVDebs.

[EVDebs]

4. The definition of 'ideologically based violence' to be specific....

"Fallacies aside, the real threat I noticed is in the way the bill then further defines ‘ideologically based violence.’ This type of violence, given its definition, may not always be what we traditionally think of as violence.

It is defined not only as physically noticeable violence, but also thinking about and/or threatening to use not only violence, but WHATEVER ELSE they can interpret as a type of force as well. The vague language includes “planned use” and “threatened use, of force or violence.” This can semantically expand the legal understanding of the definition of ‘violence’ to include NON-VIOLENT FORMS OF CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE OR DIRECT ACTION because they are seen as forceful. The bill doesn’t say that force and violence must both be present in order to define it as ‘ideologically based violence,’ rather it uses the conjunction “or,” leaving open the possibility of defining either ‘force’ or actual ‘violence’ as ‘ideologically based violence,’ and “Homegrown Terrorism” if it is done by “a group or individual born, raised, or based and operating primarily within the United States,” including U.S. zones of jurisdiction outside the 50 states, “to intimidate or coerce,” according to the similarly vague definition of ‘homegrown terrorism’ on the same page."

(taken from post above)

Thanks, boloboffin, for helping me point this out.

[Bolo Boffin]

5. None of that says "CIA in USA without Congressional oversight"

Do over.

[EVDebs]

7. WHO will have oversight ? Contracting out (outsourcing) and detailing

that is, assigning chores to other governmental agencies (CIA, DIA, NSA, you name it) are all part and parcel of this act.

Findings and oversight are what the Hughes-Ryan Act of 1974 were all about.

[bonito]

11. K&R