When did Soc Sec become a welfare program?

[travelpet]

I will turn 62 later this year. I've been paying into Social
Security since I was 19. Because of health situations, my
chances of seeing 65 are less than 50/50, so I decided I would
apply for SS now. I hold a full-time job and don't intend to
quit (for the health insurance, even if I didn't need the $$).

I was told that if I applied for SS now, I wouldn't be
eligible to receive a check until the 2nd month following my
62nd birthday and that if I continued to work at my present
job, I would not receive a check until December of 2009, and
that would be the only check I would receive for remainder of
2008 and 2009 and I would receive only 2 checks in 2010. Seems
if you make more than $13,000, you aren't entitled to Social
Security.

It was my understanding (and I'm not unintelligent or
uneducated), Social Security was an insurance program. When
did it become a means-tested welfare program? Can someone
answer that for me, please? The 20-something girl at the local
SS office couldn't.

Thanks.

[midnight]

1. This is a very interesting idea. I wish I could answer your

question.. I didn't know SS was only collectble if you were under a certain limit. This is a federal program. Call your Senator's office and ask for an explnation.

[CC]

2. Your best bet is to go here

http://www.ssa.gov/ and find out what you need to do, what limits there are and any other things you need answered. I think it doesn't matter at 65 (or 67 depending on the year you were born) but at 62 you are taking an early retirement benefit and it has a few more qualifications. The website is the best place to look for info and you can ask questions directly. Having it in am email gives you a chance to read it and be sure you understand it. Good luck.

[travelpet]

3. As I said I am not unintelligent or

uneducated. I went to the SS website. It was the information
there that misled me into believing that I could make $32,000
per year before they started reducing my already reduced award
at 62 yrs on a 2 for 1 basis. That, in fact, is not the case.
It starts off by deducting everything you make over $1300 per
month from your social security award and then if anything is
left over, it reduces it again on a 2 for 1 basis. That is why
for the first 14 months, all I would be entited to is 1/12 of
the annual benefit.

As my original posting stated, I want to know when the
means-testing came into the picture. I thought Social Security
was a forced insurance program. 

[RebelOne]

4. That's so totally wrong. I work full-time and earn

about $26,000 a year and I am collecting over $1,300 a month in social security benefits. Of course, I have to pay taxes at the end of the year. I think you had better speak to someone else at the SS office. That person doesn't know what she is talking about.

[travelpet]

5. May I respectfully ask

how old you are? I know it makes a difference when you are
collecting early benefit at 62...and I make a little more than
you do, just at $30,000 per year.  But, please tell me how old
you are, if you don't mind my asking, because your situation
sounds like what I expected to be the case when I decided to
file.

[RebelOne]

12. I filed right before I turned 65 and got practically full benefits.

I am 69 years old now and still working. So with my salary and social security, I can live comfortably. I can't afford to retire, as I couldn't live on just social security. I have a 401K and an IRA that I am trying to build up, so that if I'm lucky, I can retire in a couple of years.

[Silver Swan]

6. I will explain it the way I learned it.

First, the "retirement test" only applies to workers under their full retirement age (NRA.) Your NRA depends on the year you were born. For people attaining age 62 now, the NRA is age 66. If you are over your NRA, you may earn as much as you want and still get your full Social Security benefit. (Years ago, a worker had to wait until age 72 to receive benefits without regard to earnings, so the law has changed.)

Nevertheless, Social Security was designed to replace part of earning lost for reasons such as retirement, death, or disability. If you are still working, you are considered to have not lost any income that needs replacing.

For 2008, individuals can earn up to $13560.00 and still receive their full Social Security payments. For earnings between $13560.00 and $36120.00, one dollar in benefits is withheld for each two dollars of earnings. For earnings over $36120, the withholding is one dollar for every three dollars of earnings.

Another thing to realize, is that the amount of a monthly benefit is reduced for each a certain amount for each month of entitlement before NRA. If there are months for which no benefit is paid on account of earnings, the reduction for those months is eliminated upon attainment of NRA.

[travelpet]

7. Thank you but as I've

said, I am not unintelligent or uneducated. You're information
is of little use to me.  I am aware of all of that. I am
asking when the means testing began.  Social Security was not,
as I understand it, a partial wage replacement, it was an
insurance policy...period. Now, if I die, my life insurance
carrier must pay the face value of my policy, period. They
cannot come back to my beneficiaries and say, okay, she left
you "$$", you don't need the face value of the
policy, so we'll give you "$$" and if her estate is
valued at $$$, then we will only give you $, because that's
all you need. Wonder how long it would be before a class
action put that insurer out of business.

I expect my benefit at 62 to be 75% of the full benefit,
that's stated in black and white and clear. That's the
"give and take" for taking the benefit early.

[Silver Swan]

8. Means testing?

Social Security ALWAYS had an earnings "test" in order to qualify for benefits. The thing that has changed over the years is the amount of exempt earnings and the age at which it no longer applied.

If you use the insurance analogy, Social Security pays off when you lose income on account of retirement or disability, and pays off for your eligible survivors for your lost income on account of your death.

If you are still working, you have not lost your income. This isn't a means test, it was a "test" to determine if you have retired. You can have a million dollars in dividend or interest income and still receive Social Security as long as you are not working and earning wages or self-employment income.

[travelpet]

9. What are you talking

about? Of course it is means testing. I can be working
full-time and draw the full reduced benefit so long as I don't
earn over $1350 per month. That, my friend, is MEANS TESTING.
It has nothing to do with income replacement. Because I earn
more than $1350/month, they reduce the benefit accordingly.
Anyone earning over $1350/month has the benefit reduced. That
makes $1350/month the ceiling. That is the definition of means
testing.

SS has never had income testing. The only "test" was
the minimum number of quarters needed to be eligible for SS
retirement, which for my age group was 40 and I had those
before I was 30.

[Silver Swan]

10. Write to your congressman

if you want changes in Social Security laws.

I worked for the Social Security Administration for 35 years. For most of those years, my job was to adjudicate appeals for individuals who were dissatisfied with the determinations made on their SS claims. So believe me when I say that Social Security has always had an earnings test.

For a chart of the earnings test provisions from 1940-1971 see:

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0302501010

After 1971, the exempt amounts changed yearly. For 1972-1977 see:

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0302501015!opendocument

For 1978 through 1983 see:

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0302501020!opendocument

For 1984 to the present see:

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0302501025#d

If you want to interpret this as means testing, feel free. I can point out the provisions of SS laws, but I will not argue semantics.

[travelpet]

11. Neither will I...and

my "congressman" is a do-northing, worth-nothing
republican who may actually get his comeupance in November. I
have no congressman nor do I have a senator who are worthy of
the title. I expect nothing from either and am seldom
disappointed.

[old mark]

13. NOT TRUE!

I worked for the State of PA, and a co-worker got SS checks every month after age 62 while working full time, made well over $25,000
working + social security. This was about 4 years ago.
Means testing is used for SS Disability payments, not retirement.
Peoson in that office is FOS.
Please post how this works out-good luck with your health.

mark