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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 11:53 PM
Original message
Please share your thoughts on African American hair...
haircare and hairstyles.

I thought Star Jones said something very interesting once. She said,"...white women obsess about their weight, black women obsess about their hair."

I know that this issue has come up a few times, particulary during the Cynthia issue. But I'd like to open up this discussion beyond how it relates to an African American woman in the media spotlight. How do you feel about YOUR hair? How do you feel about styling it? Are you open to natural hairstyles? Do you prefer straightened or relaxed hair?

I have vivid memories of being a little girl being chased around by my great grandmother who wanted to comb my hair. Given that this woman was the kind to just yank, pull and simultaneously shame me about my hair...well, let's just say she never caught me. ;) Why would I allow someone that had to tell me how "bad" my hair was and what a terrible child I was for looking like a picaninny (her words) touch my hair? As if it was somehow MY fault--like I had somehow in the womb, willed my hair texture--just to spite her. :wtf:

My great aunt was a "beautician" as they were called in those days, and was always very gentle with me. She took her time when combing and pressing my hair. Not once did she say,"God dog your soul, how can you stand people seeing this head like this?!" Not once! (As if at six or seven I cared what my hair looked like:eyes:)My aunt merely talked to me like she always did, taking the time to comb my hair out ever so gently. By the time she was done, I didn't even realize she had also pressed it.

So obviously I became aware at a very young age that hair was an issue.

I learned as I got older about hair style, length and texture bias. When I got to college and too many people said they liked me for my "long hair" I cut it all off. :rofl: I felt vindicated when I went to see Spike Lee's School Daze. :P

I've worn braids, I've been natural, I've been texturized and relaxed. I've had damaged hair and healthy hair and something in between. I've read message boards where black women refer to relaxer as "creamy crack." :eyes: And while I understand WHY they call it that, I don't really like the implications regarding those that "choose" to relax their hair.

Why must black women be looked down on no matter what they do with their hair? If a woman is relaxed, that's bad--why can't she appreciate her nappy hair and natural beauty? If she's got a weave...that's bad--she's called fake. If she's got locks,...that's bad--she looks unkempt. If she's got naturally curly or wavy hair and can go back and forth--that's bad--because she thinks she's better than those that can't do that with their hair. :banghead:

Does ANYONE hold caucasian women to such standards regarding their hair? They straighten their hair, they wear weaves, they get curly perms, they add pieces, dye it, etc. But do caucasian women look down on one another based on their hair style choices? :shrug: I don't think so. Hair just seems to be another part of life for them.

Some Caucasian women seem to like to wear their hair curly, some straight, some short, some long. Why can't it be the same for African American women? Why can't it just be about preference, as opposed to some negative statement about who the person is or how they really feel about themselves?

Some argue that African American women, when straightening their hair are attempting to fit into the ideals of White Americans shown through media, film, etc. Some also argue that black women should learn to be happy with what they are born with, in terms of their hair.

That leads me to another question. Sometimes people are born with birth defects that can be corrected by surgery. Sometimes people are born with something that bothers them their entire life (a big nose, no breasts, poor skin conditions, etc.) It seems to be socially acceptable for people to change these aspects about themselves--without facing judgement or ridicule from others. Why does black women's hair have to be any different? Is it different? Or is this an entirely different issue to you?

Please share your thoughts...:)

:hi:

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kwassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-06-06 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. I think it is a self-esteem issue for some black women
one of those areas where something inherent to your appearance is not held up to be desirable, i.e. the lack of long, straight hair, which white society holds up as a beauty standard for women. It is something very hard for black women to do, usually, depending on the hair texture they are born with. I also think that black people are just hard on each other, and I am not exactly sure why they are.

The irony is that my wife wears her hair in a natural style, but has had a terrible time finding a black beautician who knows how to cut it, as so few black women where their hair in a natural style. Most black women relax their hair in one way or another. The result is that my wife cuts her own hair, and I do the back for her. She cuts mine, too. Saves us lots of money, and we often get better results! For my wife, though, it is mostly an issue of low maintenance, though she does look good in this style.

As far as I am concerned, she can wear it however she wants to.
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-07-06 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. That's great to hear, kwassa--
Edited on Sat Oct-07-06 07:45 PM by bliss_eternal
that you are supportive of your wife's hairstyle choice. :hi:

It's interesting to me that when I was with men that shared my ethnicity, several were very vocal about disliking my hair when I wore it more naturally (i.e. braids, kinks, curls, etc.) My husband of a different culture/ethnicity LOVES my hair in braids, natural styles or straightened. I don't know if it's a matter of his just being accepting of me, or if it is a cultural thing. I've had a few girlfriends that dated interacially that shared similar stories, that their white, latin, asian mate liked their hair natural and thought it was cool. So.... it's a possiblity I suppose.

I've seen too many black men give their wives, girlfriends and/or significant others grief over natural hair styles. I'm not at all sure where this comes from or why they have this perception that braids, locs, twists, etc. are somehow less than. :shrug: What really concerns me is the possibly that it comes from their upbringing.

One of my best friends in hs was a guy. He told me sad stories of bringing home girlfriends in braids or a natural style, only to have his mother say the girl needed to "comb her hair." :eyes: Are women teaching their son's to have disdain for (black)women's hair choices? :shrug:




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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-07-06 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. WOOO-HOOOO!!!!
Edited on Sat Oct-07-06 09:01 PM by Karenina
Talk about a can of worms!!! :rofl: Remember Whoopi with the towel on her head waxing poetic about her long, luxurious blond hair? :rofl::rofl::rofl: I doubled over, the tears ran and the next day my sides hurt. WE WANTED TO BE BRECK GIRLS TOO!!! WE DID THAT!!!
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Hi Karenina
Edited on Tue Oct-10-06 01:27 AM by bliss_eternal
:hi: That IS funny! I recall seeing that and thought it was funny. I knew a guy once, that told me he would watch the Brady Bunch and do that--wrap the towel and pretend he had the same kind of hair they did.

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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-07-06 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
4. I go back and forth.
Sometimes I wear braids but I still have my hair relaxed. I do that because it makes my hair easier to manage. But I love the braids because all I have to do is wrap it at night and spray it in the a.m. before I leave for work.

My niece has decided to let her daughter go natural (she's 10). It's kind of hard for her because she gets comments from some of the white girls in her school about her kinky hair (I'm sure they don't say kinky). Her parents decided to go this way because they don't want to put chemicals in her hair anymore.
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I loved wearing braids...
what I didn't love was the time to put them in, or the "take down." :( Talk about a pain in the rear. Don't get me started on FINDING someone to do the braids and all the drama that went with that.

My gf had me absolutely roaring with laughter one day sharing her last "adventure" of going to get braids.:rofl: She was so fed up, she taught herself and does her own braids now.

I think it's admirable that your niece's parents are encouraging her to go natural. :applause: I just hate that white girls are giving her grief about it. :eyes::mad: Sadly, I'm sure they are product of their respective home environments.

Don't know if they would be open to this or not but if they are interested in such a thing, have them check this out...

www.sisterlocks.com

I got a couple of their magazine/newletters featuring some kids with their hair in sisterlocks---Sooooo cute! The little girls featured say they love that they have all the styling options as their classmates,(with their locs) without the fuss! They can swim, run, play--no rough comb outs after their hair "reverts" like after pressing and curling. Hot days, cold days or rainy days...They are All good! As the sisterlocks get long enough, they can wear ponytails, bangs, etc.

There's a very cute picture of a few little girls with sisterlocks here:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/LockItUp/

:hi:



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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. An addition to my post. ..
Edited on Wed Oct-11-06 06:22 PM by bliss_eternal
for cat_girl or anyone that may be interested, regarding the sisterlocks--they look different than traditional locs. They are very thin, and look like micro braids--which adds to the fact that they can be styled in a variety of ways.

:hi:
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ariesgem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-14-06 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Talking about putting in and taking out braids,
Edited on Sat Oct-14-06 02:55 AM by ariesgem
I have to reserve an entire day to put them in or to take them out. I'm an apartment manager 24/7 and on the days that I reserve to work on my hair, I tell the tenants don't even think about knocking on my door.
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-14-06 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I hear you loud and clear...
Edited on Sat Oct-14-06 02:19 PM by bliss_eternal
:hug: Not fun is it? And I know you're not trying to have anyone see you with a partially braided and unbraided head. Been there, I did NOT feel attractive during that transition. ;)

Do you have to remove them by yourself, ariesgem?

A friend has a daughter old enough to help, so they speed through the process whenever either wears braids. Another friend trained her bf at the time(now he's her husband), to help with removal. He loved her in braids and was always asking her to get them done. She told him,"...if you like them and want me to wear them, you have to be willing to help me to take them out." She thought that would end the issue. He was willing and helps her take them out everytime! :wow: Don't know why, but the image of her sitting on the floor in between his knees, and him with a bottle of Pinks and a comb undoing braids gives me the giggles! :rofl:

I was more than a little urinary the last time I had to remove braids. :mad::grr: The braider did a funky job, so as I was unbraiding, I found braids that were so tiny, I almost had to cut my hair to remove the braid. Other braids were so thick they were falling out (prompting me to start the removal process earlier than planned):eyes:.

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ariesgem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. No it's not fun and definately NOT PRETTY : )
I have to remove them myself because I have very thick, course hair and a tender scalp. I can't trust anyone to put a comb through my hair due to past nightmare experiences of braiders/beauticians & my mother pulling combs through the natural state of my hair. It always hurt like hell. As a kid, I would dread Saturday mornings because my mother would either cornrow or put a hotcomb through my hair. With the hotcomb, I would always get burnt on the ear or neck.

After taking my braids out for so many years, I eventually learned how to put them in.

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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. As a sister of the scalp, my heart goes out to you...
Very tender head here...:hi: So I understand.

Good for you, learning to do it yourself! At least you don't have to deal with all the stress and drama that goes with finding someone to do them for you, --that's great!

Funny, I've never been big on combing my hair really. With the exception of those vain teenaged years when everyone primps, etc. :shrug: Of course I do it, but I think it's something I could take or leave given the choice. :P Brushing I would miss, though...not sure why.
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ariesgem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. My mother cracked up
Edited on Wed Oct-18-06 01:09 AM by ariesgem
when she'd watch me comb my hair. I'd take a small section of hair, hold it tightly about an inch away from the ends and start combing my way down while never letting go until I got to the roots so I wouldn't feel the pull of the comb. I still comb my hair like that to this day. It would probably be easier to get a texturizer to soften my hair but I was never that big on chemical processing.

When I was in high school, braids with extensions/beads became popular and that was my saving grace from hot combs. My first experience with getting braided extensions was in the 10th grade. I wore my hair long and to the side with beads like the woman in the band "A Taste of Honey".

In case your too young to know who she was, here's a pic.



:blush: (looks like I revealed my age)

I'm now a little conservative with braided styles today in my old age. ;)
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. That's how I comb...
Edited on Sat Oct-21-06 06:00 PM by bliss_eternal
in between relaxers. ;) Maybe if people hadn't beat the hell out of our scalps as kids, we wouldn't be so traumatized! lol!

Do you know there are those that actually advocate being "rougher" with a child's scalp that's tender headed--a means to break them out of it?! Such nonsense! I just don't believe it's possible to "toughening up" one's scalp. If it's sensitive, it's sensitive--why fight that? To me, that's like saying,"...let me sock you in the stomach every day until you get used to it--so one day it won't hurt anymore." :crazy:

I recall seeing the 70's record albums in my aunts, uncles and parent's collections--with the women with braids and beads! One of my older cousins was a teen in the 70's. I always thought she was so gorgeous, and looked up to her, the way she dressed and wore her hair then. :loveya: Sooo cool to me! She'd wear her hair in a fro with the baby's breath (lol), or cornrows, with beads at the ends. Wasn't the 70's a great era for hair? Even caucasians were getting curly perms so they could have afros!! :rofl:

Since you like braids and hate combing, have you considered locks? There's tiny ones that look like styled micro-braids--REALLY pretty! They're called sisterlocks. You'd never have to comb again--and your hair would look awesome!

www.sisterlocks.com Check out the photo gallery page from the link. ;) (No, I'm not affiliated with the company--just think it's a pretty option for those that don't like chemicals and hate "THE COMB." lol)
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. Thanks for those links, bliss!
I will be sure to pass them on to my niece. :hi:
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. No problem cat_girl!
Edited on Sat Oct-21-06 06:03 PM by bliss_eternal
:hi: Always happy to be a resource of alternative options and possibilities...!
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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
16. My hair has been the source of all of the negativity
Edited on Sat Oct-21-06 07:05 PM by SemperEadem
that I've experienced at the hands of black females for the 46 years I've been on the planet.

When I was a 5 yr old kindergarterner, some 4th grade girls actually chased me home to beat me up because "she think she cute" because of my hair. When our family moved and I went to a new school in 1st grade, there was a 5th grade girl who would pull my hair when I walked past her when our classes went on lavatory breaks (the were both Catholic schools, no less). I think she got busted by the nuns (and that's its own circle of hell) because soon after, I never saw her again at breaks.

Then when I was in junior girl scouts, that same girl's sister decided after scouts that she was going to beat me up because I thought I was cute because of my hair.. Not only did she get kicked out of scouts, but she was suspended from school for that.

When was old enough, I cut it all off. That seemed to stop the aggression of black females.

I find that the problem has been its worst when either my hair was long or when I lived in the midwest and now in DC. When I lived in TX, Los Angeles and NY, I had no problems--had plenty of black female friends in who didn't trip on my hair... now that I'm in DC and my hair is long again, it's like being in grade school all over again. And its not like I'm not being friendly and speaking--I am--but when I speak, I get the eye roll, the turned up nose and the not speaking when spoken to... you'd think I just effed their man, slapped their mama and took a crap in their bed and told them to clean up their mess.

My sister had a worse experience than me and to this day, she has no black female friends; isn't interested in black females as friends; isn't interested in anything having to do with black culture; married a white man and her babydaddy is a white man (he's not her husband).

I don't want to have to forgo the friendship of black females, but it seems I have no choice.
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Sorry to hear about the hostility
I am sorry to learn of your experiences. I am just as sorry you are ruling out (all) black females as potential friends because the transgressions of the few you've encountered.

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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Oh, I'm not... but it appears as if I'm the one being ruled out
I do have very close girlfriends who are black, but they're all on the other side of the country (I moved east not too long ago)... and I do try, but I keep hitting a brick wall. I know you can't make people like you and all, but dang... they don't know me, so why the hostility?

I miss sista-hood, trust me.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. You must have
"GOOD" hair!!! "Whassa matta witchoo, girl? Yu mus' think you white or sumpen! YOUAIN WHITE!!!" :evilgrin: Sound familiar?
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Karenina...girl, you are traumatizing me...
Edited on Mon Oct-23-06 07:50 PM by bliss_eternal
;)
Whoa, those words take me back. :scared: Such hostility.

I know that kids aren't born with these kinds of ideas--had to come from their parents.

I wish this had all died out with other generations, unfortunately as other threads have suggested--it's still going on. (sigh).


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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 05:38 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. They were hurled at me
as I was being physically assaulted, BECAUSE OF MY SPEECH PATTERN. (I had "bad" hair, BTW).
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. So you've been there, too...
:hug: I'm so sorry. I didn't take any butt kickings over it, but I got called names, chased, teased, threatened, ignored, blamed, etc. Like you, I spoke well. I had light skin which apparently didn't help my cause but like you, bad hair. :bounce:

Btw, what's so "bad" about our hair? I mean is it naughty--does it talk back, or misbehave somehow? Does our hair have a secret life, where it's out and about participating in criminal acts while we are sleeping? Is our hair mean or selfish? :shrug:

Does "good" hair go out creating world peace while it's owners are otherwise preoccupied?
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jmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Ever notice how criminals usually have bad hair?
I've watched enough late night basic cable crime shows to know that it's usually the suspect described as having the bushy, greasy, unkempt, etc hair that ends up being convicted. Every now and then a Ted Bundy comes along and they're like wow! he has an education and a comb! but when it comes to violent criminals being described as clean cut that's an anomaly. If you have "bad hair" you're usually a bad guy. I use to watch soaps but one of the reasons I stopped was because pretty much every guy with dreads had a history as a drug dealer.

A former roommate once told me how growing up her mother lived a sheltered life in a Connecticut suburb. Her grandparents were well off so when her mom went to college in Boston they paid all her bills and furnished her apartment. Soon after she started she decided to throw a party for her new friends and like with most college parties some of her guests invited people she didn't even know. One of her friends invited a band. She took one look at them and thought their hair is greasy and their jeans are dirty. She was so afraid they'd rob her that she called her brother who went to a different college in Boston and asked him to come over and remove her new stereo system from her place. That bad with bad hair was Aerosmith. Her family never misses an opportunity to remind her of this story.
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. I can't stand that term "bad hair"
Edited on Sat Oct-28-06 08:19 AM by fortyfeetunder
For one, most people can't change their natural hair texture, though they can process it through styling and/or chemical modification to make it more managable.

For African Americans--it's a throwback to the inference that "bad hair" is associated with kinky, nappy hair, in contrast, any hair that resembles straight hair is supposed to be "good hair"

So when African American kids are getting this message of "bad hair", then it implies there is something wrong with them, they are "bad people" -- so it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy...

Yeah, we have to get out of this obsession with hair texture, else it will destroy us.

on edit:typo
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jmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. I can't stand terms like good or bad hair either.
I often get told I have "good" or "nice" hair but yet once most people meet or see my siblings and notice how they have "white" hair they act like I'm suppose to be jealous. To put a bit more bluntly than you did the blacker your hair is considered the badder it becomes in the eyes of many. My little sister Danielle is only ten. A couple of years ago she called me and asked if I would dye her hair blond because some girl in her class had told her that black people have bad hair. Danny's hair is far from what anyone would consider kinky. Her classmate probably didn't even know what nappy means but already had it ingrained in her at that young age that her blond hair was best and if you want to hurt an African American female attacking her hair is a good place to start. I talked to my sister about how everybody wasn't meant to look the same and how when she got older if she wanted to change her hair because it's wants she wants I'd help her but nobody should change because of other people.
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Wow, jmm...
Your experience with your sister...the poor girl. :hug: That's just not right. I'm so sorry that she went through that at all. :mad:

Good for you explaining it to her the way you did. :thumbsup:

I'm troubled by hair trends reflected in Hollywood. I've noticed that at some point, every other black celebrity "goes blond." I don't get that. Not everyone looks good with blond hair. (btw, I'm not talking about highlights or anything like that).

I take no issue with people coloring their hair or going for different looks. I just find it troubling that the "blond" symbol is held in such high regard that so many seem to feel they HAVE to go there, even if the look does nothing for them.

Then again, I'm the rare person that thought Madonna looked great with her natural hair color. ;)lol.
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Well said.
Edited on Sat Oct-28-06 07:10 PM by bliss_eternal
:applause:

:hi: Until we can get past the necessity to box each other,the same way American society seems to need to, or to say that only those that have this sort of hair, skin color, eyes, etc. are "black" we can't get past the hair thing. That frankly, saddens me.

There needs to be greater acceptance of individuality within the culture as a whole, as opposed to this sense that only certain hairstyles are acceptable, look good, are professional-whatever. That one has to look like one of the sisters on a magazine cover to be deemed beautiful.

I'm not speaking only of those from the "kinky hair police", I'm also referring to some on the natural side that feel the need to look down on those that choose to alter their hair texture with blow drying, pressing, and/or chemical straightening.

I guess I just don't understand how and why we all can't be more accepting of each other's choices--whatever they are. As I speak of in my original post. I don't see caucasian women being looked down upon for coloring, adding curl, removing curl, etc. I don't like seeing black culture so divided and judgmental of one another.
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Aerosmith...?!
:loveya: Swoon!

I'm sorry, but may I for a minute just share my unabashed love of the band Aerosmith AND their hair!!!

I've never been big on straight, flat, limp hair. Usually when I see hair that I like on others--it's big, bouncy, curly hair--always textured. I love texture, kinks, curls, waves. Didn't necessarily care for it on me...:eyes: But I love seeing it on others--I think it's the MOST gorgeous hair!

Oh and Joe Perry is ridiculously hot! :blush:

Ok...I'm done. :hide:
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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. too familiar! LOL
along with the "she must think she cute"

it's like 'gawd!!! can you be a little more original than that?'
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. self delete
Edited on Mon Oct-23-06 07:48 PM by bliss_eternal
:hi:
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-25-06 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. Oh wow, that is horrible.
Sorry that you and your sister had to go through that. It's too bad you guys weren't in Louisiana or Texas, you would have blended in better, especially southern Louisiana. In some areas there are a lot of black folks that look like white folks by way of hair and skin tone.

At the catholic school in my neighborhood it was the opposite. The lighter skinned girls and the girls with the straight hair were hostile to the ones that weren't like them. I will never forget that experience.
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I heard that about Catholic Schools here, too...
:shrug: But it's always troubled me--the light skin vs. dark skin thing. I guess I understand how it came about, but it merely serves to divide, and in that sense just seems so cruel and unnecessary.

I've always distanced myself from people that felt the need to single people out and pick on them for any reason. Kind of goofy of me, considering how physically small I was at the time. I usually just got hurt in the process. lol.
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undergroundrailroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
28. Well, let's say I have a nappy "kitchen" and you know what?
I like it like that.

:hi:
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. It finally occurred to me to incorporate the
Edited on Fri Oct-27-06 09:10 PM by Karenina
"peas in my kitchen" into 2 dreads, both of which are now about 6" long. My dreads are waist-length. For YEARS I clipped my "peas" as there was such shame associated with them, mom repeatedly burning my neck with that damned hot comb to no avail... Need I explain? ;-)

OH LOOK WHAT I JUST FOUND IN MY DUSTY, MOLDY CYBERKELLER!!! I saw a picture of the kid in question at the time, she was GORGEOUS, absolutely STUNNING! No link, which means I musta saved this 3 years ago or so...

(Let it fly in the breeze

And get caught in the trees
make a home for the fleas in my HAIR.

A home for the fleas, a hive for the bees
a nest for the birds, there ain‘t no words
for the beauty, the splendor, the wonder of
MY HAIR

I CANNOT BELIEVE WE ARE STILL INTO THIS BIT OF RACISM.

Like we don‘t have much bigger fish to fry... However, it goes to the heart of self-esteem. That which makes us feel worthy to FIGHT the REAL ISSUES... Grrr...)

Local

Hairstyle keeps girl out of Whitefish High School

By Nancy Kimball
The Daily Inter Lake

"I think it's ridiculous that they would deny me an education because of my hair," says Kisteesha Lanegan, a sophomore who can't attend Whitefish High School until she gets rid of her dreadlocks.


Karen Nichols/ Daily Inter Lake

Kisteesha Lanegan says she simply was tired of her long, straight hair, so decided to try dreadlocks.

Whitefish Superintendent Jerry House says the sophomore knew the rule and made her choice, so officials had no option but to ask her to leave school until she got rid of the "outlandish" hairstyle.

"It's not really my hair," the 15-year-old Lanegan said from her home last week on a day when her peers were in class at Whitefish High School. "It's just the principle of the matter. They're trying to mold me into a person that I'm not. My hair is totally irrelevant to education at the school."

House said the school wants to maintain its high standards.

"We're here for education. That's our paramount duty," he said. "We're not here as a fashion store or fashion occasion. If you want to dress in an outlandish way in your own time, that's your business. That's not our business."

Lanegan, a C and D student who admits she does not particularly enjoy school but still wants to return, says she's as good as expelled.

The school sees it another way.

"She was asked to go home and change her hair on opening day of school this year," House said. "She is welcome back any time when she changes her hair. She's chosen not to come back. We say, as a student she left campus, went home and chose not to return."

Today, two weeks past the 10-day absence limit that automatically drops a student from public school rolls, Lanegan officially is "not currently enrolled" at Whitefish High School.

While Kisteesha Lanegan's remaining high school career may come down to an issue of semantics, the underlying issues pit individual freedom of expression against a public school's right to set rules to accomplish its goals.

It started a year ago, a couple of weeks before the first day of her freshman year. "I just thought it would be a cool thing to do," said Lanegan, who has been in Whitefish schools since third grade. "I was tired of how my hair had been forever, straight and highlighted, and if I'd kept it that way I'd have to curl it every day."

So she started twisting and rubbing segments of her hair until, two months later, it was matted enough for the dreadlocks to hold their form.
Teachers would ask her how she accomplished the look, she said, but none objected to the style. None, at least, until two weeks before the end of the year. That's when she was called into Assistant Principal Kent Paulson's office.

"He told me ‘I have two things to talk to you about,’" she said. "‘One of them is that you can't wear your hat in the building.’" She wore a wool snow cap to school, and he had indeed told her to remove it several times.
"‘The second thing is dreadlocks,’" Paulson told her. "He told me I had to alter my hair in some way so it wasn't dreadlocked. I told him the only way I can do that is to cut my hair off, and he said, ‘I guess that's what you're going to have to do, then.’"

She asked Paulson why she had not been told earlier while it was still possible to remove the dreadlocks without shaving her head. They had been overlooked, he replied. "How could he ask me to remove my cap and not notice my hair? Obviously, he had been paying some attention to me," she said.

Paulson also said another student's mother had seen Lanegan at prom last spring and reminded Paulson that her own son complied when told not to wear dreadlocks. "I asked Mr. Paulson, ‘Why, what's the reasoning behind making me cut my dreadlocks?’" Lanegan said. "He told me it was an abnormality in that no one else had dreads and I couldn't. I said, ‘No one else wants to dread their hair.’ I also made the point that I'm still in school and I'm still learning. It doesn't have anything to do with school. How is this affecting it?"

House said the school is trying to prevent the potential ridicule, bullying and attention being drawn to a student with outlandish hair.
"We have standards, we have expectations," the superintendent said. "We're not singling out any one student. You set standards, you set your expectations for people to meet them and you do it for a reason. Our reason is that we're a learning institution, we're not a fashion school.
"We want all children when they come here to have the opportunity to learn with no distractions."
He also said Lanegan had enough time to comply with the policy.

"Last spring, we allowed her to stay in school so she didn't have to shave her head," he said. "We didn't want to embarrass the child." At that time, he talked with her mother, PeTina Lanegan, to let her know Kisteesha would have to get rid of the dreadlocks before August.
"She thanked me and said certainly they could do something over the summer," House said. Later, PeTina Lanegan contacted House and board chair Linda Maetzold, who both told her the dreadlocks would have to go.
"What kind of bothered me about it is she knew this was the policy last year and had all summer to work with it. She knew it and didn't change it," House said.

Lanegan does not claim to be a star student but doesn't think she's a problem child, either. In fifth and sixth grades, she said, she was the class clown who irritated teachers but drew no suspensions. In eighth grade, she got her tongue pierced. Administrators told her it was against school policy and asked her to remove the barbell in her tongue. She had checked the handbook previously and found no specific prohibition on tongue piercing, so refused. The next day, she was put into two weeks of in-school suspension. A few days before suspension was over, she and her mother met with House and Kisteesha was released.

"My attitude really wasn't very good," Lanegan said. "I was offensive, I got really frustrated. But now everything's fine. I don't demand respect from teachers and administrators. I just pretty much go to class. I regularly attend class, but I did run up against the maximum absence limit at the end of last year."

She thought about Paulson's directive during the summer, and decided "if I cut my hair off I would be totally conforming to these totally ridiculous rules," and returned to school this fall with a full head of dreads.
Eight minutes into first period, she was called to Principal Dorothy Schmautz's office and soon left campus for home. "I think it's ridiculous that they would deny me an education because of my hair," she said.

Beth Brenneman, legal director for the American Civil Liberties Union of Montana, tends to agree.

The Lanegans asked for the ACLU's help. In a letter to House, Brenneman cited the Montana Constitution's provision guaranteeing "equality of educational opportunity ... to each person of the state."
"This constitutional guarantee establishes a right to attend public school that the government cannot take away without an important or compelling reason to do so," she wrote. After reviewing the handbook that the district mailed her, she focused on punishment outlined in the dress-code policy — ranging from a warning for first offense to one-day suspension for fourth offense. "The school policy does not lend itself very well to some sort of status offense," she told the Inter Lake. "It never lists expulsion."

However, the ACLU litigation committee decided last week not to take on the case. "Our decision to take or not take cases is based almost entirely on our resources," Brenneman said. She's the only attorney for the ACLU in Montana, and already has a full plate. "It's an open question on whether the Constitution allows schools to dictate policy on appearance," she said. "There's not enough case law.

"Equality of educational opportunity is guaranteed to every person by the Montana Constitution. That is not in the U.S. Constitution. They have to have a good reason to deprive her of that access. Is her hair sufficient reason to deprive her?"

Whitefish school trustees revised the student handbook's dress code this summer. A section that had read "Unnatural hair color and outlandish styles detract from the educational settings and will not be allowed," was altered to add "such as mohawks and dreadlocks" after "outlandish styles." The word "not" was changed to capital letters.

A copy of the revision was mailed to Lanegan shortly before school started Aug. 28.

"We really haven't added anything, with the exception of adding words to be specific," House said. "Were we targeting Kisteesha? Heck no. Were we targeting any other students? Heck no. We were not looking at any group, religious set, cultural set." He cited the athletic training policy, also changed this summer, that now allows students to be near and to consume alcohol. "A lot of our kids are waiters and waitresses in local restaurants," House said, "so being around that would be a problem to them. "Also, some families have a tradition of having a glass of wine at Thanksgiving."

The next step for PeTina Lanegan is an appointment today with House. If they reach no solution, the case can be appealed to the Whitefish school board, then to County Superintendent Donna Maddux.

"We've talked to some lawyers," Kisteesha Lanegan said. "One of my mom's friends has a lawyer in Chicago, but that's expensive and we don't have much money to spend on a lawyer. I really don't know yet what to do at this point because we've tried so many things and they're all dead-ends. My mom is looking into home schooling now. I miss seeing all the people I used to see at school, and just having something to do and being there. I don't miss all the teachers and the system, but I do want to go back. I want them to say I can come back to school."


Reporter Nancy Kimball may be reached at 758-4483 or by e-mail at nkimball@dailyinterlake.com


Districts vary in approaches to the issue

A focus on educational benefits guides decisions regarding student appearance in Kalispell, Columbia Falls and Bigfork high schools.

• "What we look at is that whatever the student is doing has got to be appropriate for school and school activities," said Flathead High School Principal Callie Langohr. School policy, she said, requires that student behavior and appearance not be disruptive, distracting, harmful or incompatible with the school mission.

"We really try to work with students. We want students to be in school and enjoy coming to Flathead High School," she said. "We develop relationships with them so things like this aren't an issue."

She would not be concerned about a student with dreadlocks, she said, adding that similar situations have "not really" surfaced at the high school.

"We try to head problems off, look at students as individuals and see where they are in life," she said. "We don't overreact or underreact. We don't put ourselves in a position where this would be an issue.

"We are pretty tolerant. We want students to attend Flathead High School. We want them to feel good about being in school here and (have them) get in here and get the job done."

• In Columbia Falls, the student handbook says personal appearance of students is respected provided it does not interfere with health and safety of the student or others, nor materially interfere with the educational process.

Common sense, self-respect and respect for others are the guideposts.

There is no district policy specifically governing hair. A high school administrator did not want to comment on whether dreadlocks would cause concern.

The administrator said current fashion trends have been the biggest block to students cooperating with the dress code.

Students who refuse to adhere to the rules of appearance get an in-school detention for one lunch period. Further infractions bring more detention.

• Bigfork High School's policy on hairstyles "is pretty vague and open," principal Thom Peck said, and takes a hands-off approach, "as long as it doesn't distract from the educational setting."

"If it were something different as far as dyed or colored hair, or the way it was shaved, or dreadlocks," he said, "if we felt it was becoming an issue as far as denying the student (benefits) from the educational process," the school would take action.

Students, he said, could get a hard time from their peers who teased, left notes or put something on the student's car, making them "feel uncomfortable so that they couldn't reach their full potential."

It's never happened in his experience, Peck said. This is his first year at Bigfork, but he has been an assistant principal and teacher in other districts.

Clothing, however, has been an issue. Because students usually go home and change or put on the T-shirt the school offers, Peck said, it's never gotten to the point of expulsion.

09/25/2002 Wednesday

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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. Whitefish school is practicing institutional racism
Edited on Sat Oct-28-06 07:06 PM by bliss_eternal
pure and simple. :mad: Calling her hair "outlandish" and stating it's a fashion choice, etc. is complete bullshit! I wish I was a lawyer, I would sue the pants off that principal and that school on her behalf. What he's doing is completely UNCONSTITUTIONAL and racist.

The principal may as well have said he just didn't LIKE her hair, and refuses to allow her to attend on that premise because that's all I saw in what I read. That man is an evil bigot. That really pisses me off!

Thank you for that Karenina. :hi:

I bet your dreds in back are gorgeous! I've always liked locs. I was so sad when Lenny Kravitz cut his. I thought his hair was awesome and he looked quite handsome like that! ;)
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. The "hair" issue is a big one
followed closely by the "speech issue." Crabs in a barrel...
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kwassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #29
40. I have a brand-new student with major dreadlocks ....
and she is the only student in school with them. Plenty of braids, no locks. No one has given her any problems over her hair, and I can't imagine them doing so.
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. I think dredlocks are so beautiful...
Edited on Fri Nov-03-06 02:06 AM by bliss_eternal
everytime I'm out and see someone with locs I stop and compliment them. Some seem downright surprised that I think so. :shrug: I'm sure your students look great!
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. Right on, underground!
:applause::bounce::hi:
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undergroundrailroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Hi!
:hi:
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Right back at ya'....!
:hi::pals:
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GoGo1 Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-02-06 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #28
41. LOL! You go UGRR!!
I like my nappy "kitchen" too!!!

:hi:
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