The persistence of the "Hitler, Stalin, Mao" meme--

[vixengrl]

Okay--I have long been against what I call the "Atheist vs. Theist Body Count Pissing Contest" because I think it's just whacked. It's morbid, for one, but then it leads to the "No true Scotsman" arguments about whether you could say Mao was "really" an atheist or whether Hitler "really" was Catholic. But not long ago, Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels went off on the "Hitler, Stalin, Mao" thing, and actually--so did oleaginous mega-church mega-preacher Rick Warren:

http://twitter.com/RickWarren/status/7509283573

Life is cheap to those who think they're god. Mao,Stalin& Hitler(God-deniers) caused 110 million deaths without remorse.
10:09 PM Jan 7th from web
RickWarren
Rick Warren

To me, this is the dumbest trope in existence. It seems to holler at original sin, or the fallen nature of man--but then it invites speculation about what motivates people, and it leads to ideology as the root cause--without exempting religion as a potent ideology that could start an intifada or a Crusade.

Why does this thing get pulled out? And are religious people really trying to say your average "atheist in the street" is a potential genocidal maniac (like me? I donate to Amnesty International facrissakes! And I do HRC action e-mails!)? Or are they just saying that to keep the faithful in line--"You don't want to wake up to find out you're Hitler, do you?" Which is still seriously dumb.

[Deep13]

1. Sound-bite argument.

It sounds devastating on its face, but it really means nothing.

In point of fact, Hitler was not an atheist and his blame-the-Jews ideology was deeply rooted in Christian theology. One should also point out that however bad Stalin was, he and the Red Army were principally responsible for stopping the Nazis.

The problem with the 20th century dictators was not their rejection of conventional religion, but rather that they replaced religion with their own draconian dogma. Since the populations of those countries were already used to theocratic rule, it was a small matter to transfer their obedience from one dogmatic system to the other.

[trotsky]

2. I have also seen it pointed out that by far the vast majority of the millions "killed" by Stalin...

were victims of starvation and disease due to his failed central planning.

[onager]

3. Here's a fun game! Find Hitler's atheist allies.

OK, this probably bores the hell out of normal people, but I'm a serious history geek. And I have actually found this stuff useful in swatting at the Hitler/atheist meme, sometimes.

We all know Hitler was an atheist...insert sarcasm smiley. But who were his puppets in Europe?

Romania - Viorel Trifa was a student leader of the fascist Iron Guard in Romania. He escaped to America and became bishop of the Romanian Orthodox Church in the United States. He once led prayers in Congress. Trifa was finally stripped of his U.S. citizenship and deported in 1984.

In 2004, the Romanian government commissioned a study into the Holocaust in that country. Its conclusion bears repeating: "Of all the allies of Nazi Germany, Romania bears responsibility for the deaths of more Jews than any country other than Germany itself. The murders committed in Iasi, Odessa, Bogdanovka, Domanovka, and Peciora, for example, were among the most hideous murders committed against Jews anywhere during the Holocaust. Romania committed genocide against the Jews. The survival of Jews in some parts of the country does not alter this reality."

Slovakia - after 1944, governed by Jozef Tiso. Before his exciting new career as a Nazi-backed dictator, he was a Catholic priest.

Croatia - Ante Pavelic was named head of the Nazi puppet government in April 1941. He was a devout Catholic who went to Rome and had a personal audience with the Pope.

Italy - Benito Mussolini actually did call himself an atheist, but he maintained VERY cordial relations with the Vatican. His Lateran Treaty of 1929 virtually created the stupid idea that the Vatican is a "state" and recognized its full sovereignty.

Then there was Bishop Hudal in Rome, a real charmer. He would brag about running the "rat lines" after WWII that allowed many Nazi war criminals to escape justice. Among them were Adolf Eichmann, Dr. Josef Mengele, Klaus Barbie and the aforementioned Ante Pavelic of Croatia.

In his own words:

"...after 1945 all my charitable work was primarily devoted to the former members of National Socialism and Fascism, particularly to the so-called `war criminals'...who were being persecuted..."

And a testimonial from one of those poor persecuted people: "I recall with deep gratitude the aid given to me by Catholic priests in my flight from Europe and decided to honor the Catholic faith by becoming an honorary member." - Adolf Eichmann

[trotsky]

4. C'mon, onager.

All of his allies were ALSO atheists, and I can prove it:

1) Only atheists do bad things.
2) Hitler and his allies did bad things.

ergo

Hitler and his allies were all atheists.

Airtight logic!

[vixengrl]

5. Or at the minimum, they were "No true Christians,"

Which would make them default atheists. QED.