"Did Jesus Exist?"

[elshiva]

http://netscape.compuserve.com/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0002/20060104/1235482036.htm&ewp=ewp_news_0106jesus_debate

I thought this had been settled a long time ago... WTF?

[shrike]

1. It rears its ugly head occasionally

Most of the "Jesus is a myth" stuff is pretty ridiculous, the worst being the Arachaya S. tripe that's cited every so often: she's the one who says Jesus represents the sun and the apostles represent the sun, it's all in tune with the ancient myths ...

The latest court case in Italy involves two old men who once went to seminary together. One is a priest, the other is a rabid atheist. I honestly think this is a personal issue between the two of them, although they both deny it.

[elshiva]

4. But don't the ancient documents say that there really was

a Jesus of Nazereth?

[shrike]

5. KInd of depends on who you talk to

There's been some controversy over the accounts in Josephus, whether or not they are forgeries. I myself am not an expert and could not comment on that matter.

My take on the whole thing has always been, putting all talk of divinity and Messiah aside, why wouldn't there have been aJesus? There was a Troy. They've even found some evidence of Minos (i.e., the Minotaur legend) and Jason and the Argonauts. People are just not imaginative enough to make up things out of whole cloth.

To be fair, a thorough debate could certainly be had (and is often had) over Christ's divinity, His miracles, His resurrection, whatever. And the skeptics would (and do) score their share of excellent points. But to argue there was no Jesus whatsoever? Nah ...

[elshiva]

6. Yes, that's what I was thinking about Josephus

and the fact that the gospel writers do agree on enough events that it would seem
that were not inventing the PERSON of Jesus.

As for the faith, expression of saying "Jesus is the Christ/Messiah and/or God," that is
faith and not history. I think some people get this confused as atheists or non-Christians and think that because
they truly believe that Jesus is not Christ/God, that there was no Jesus as a historical person.

[AngryOldDem]

2. I take it this is the case in Italy...

...where the atheist is suing a parish priest, claiming the Church has been perpetuating a fraud for lo these many centuries. It should be interesting to follow, provided that it gets traction in the Italian legal system.

[RB TexLa]

3. podcast

Just heard about this on dailybreakfast podcast. Said the judge has tried all along the way to throw the case out.

[blindpig]

7. There's a new book

Caesar's Messiah, can't remember the author. The nut of his thesis is that Christianity was the creation of the Flavian Dynasty. His belief is that the Gospels were created as a sort of ancient psy-ops scam to subdue the Jews. Claims to have "discovered" all sorts of parallels between the Gospels and The Jewish War which show the Gospels to be a hidden satire for the Flavian court at the same time. This satire aspect's big joke is that the Lord, the Son of Man to whom Christians pray is none other than the Emperor Titus!

Now I abandoned Christianity decades ago and indeed consider the origins of the Old Testament to be an act of political justification by the ancient Jewish state. This work is way over the top for me. Occam's Razor won't cut it.

[shrike]

8. There are all kinds of theories

Besides, I wouldn't say that the Jews were too "subdued" by anything.