Question regarding daughter's vulnerability

[wellstone dem]

My daughter suffers from severe depression/anxiety and probably some personality disorder issues/PTSD. She was in foster care for 5 years before I adopted her. She is away at college, which alone is a big achievement for her. She started a work study job and a supervisor at the job has befriended her. My daughter knows she is trying to convert her to a "born again" faith. She told my daughter she needs to see a minister for counseling and that she "the friend" doesn't believe in medication. She has been having a particularly hard time recently, as is usually the case this time of year for her. My daughter says, "I challenge her, but the discussions are interesting and I like her."

I've always taught my daughter to respect other religions so long as they respect her. This faith does not accept gay people, which is why my daughter rejected the religion she was raised in (Catholicism). I've always told my daughter she does not need to practice my faith, that it is mine, but that I hope she finds a faith that is hers. But that lesson is being challenged as I have concerns about someone taking advantage of her need for friendship. And then I think, but if she finds acceptance and peace, isn't that OK.

I guess I just have to trust that her intelligence and her values will win out in the end, whenever she reaches that place.

Any thoughts?

[elleng]

1. Yes, wellstone,

their intellingence and values win out in the end; that's why we parents do what we do.

What is the work-study job? Provided by the school, right? Type school, that is, state, private, religious?

In this case, it seem to me that when particular issues/moments arise, vis a vis this person, you can reasonably 'remind' your daughter that she is/was trying to convert her to a born again faith, and that your daughter is under no obligation whatsoever to accept that faith.

[hermetic]

2. Trying out differet religions

is fairly common. Goodness knows, I did and it didn't hurt me a bit.

What DOES concern me though is this statement: she "the friend" doesn't believe in medication.

Is your daughter on meds now? If so, I think you need to be very concerned. If it were me, I'd be monitoring that situation very closely, even to the point of going to admin about it.

Best of luck to you, fellow Wellstone lover.

[wellstone dem]

3. My biggest concerns were

the medication and the trying to move her to a minister as a counselor.

I talked with her last night and told her that as long as she kept her counselor, stayed on her meds, maintained her beliefs that gay people are just fine, didn't start believing that evolution is a myth, and didn't believe I was going to hell because my beliefs are different than her---then do what she needs to gain peace and joy.

She had been at a meeting on evangelism and she said it was clear the people there think homosexuality is a choice and do not believe in evolution. "They are nice people, but they would not agree with what I think."

I think I just need to be available to remind her of who she is and has always been.

[elleng]

6. Sounds

good.

[mopinko]

4. sounds like you have a good relationship. just keep that up.

my daughter is doing well, but living with a boyfriend that is a real jerk. it is hard for me to connect to her, although others in the family do. i think that when these relationships start to interfere with basic support mechanisms, it is time to worry. as long as you feel like she can come to you when she needs to, i think you have what you need.
it is hard, tho. they do have to make their own mistakes, just like all young adults.

[hunter]

5. These religions can be very aggressive, even predatory.

Looking back on my own experience as a young, single and very troubled man I can almost judge my mental state at any given time by who was reaching out to 'help' me. If it was the Moonies or the Scientologists, wow, I must have been really screwed up. Now that we've got psych drugs and therapy that actually works, then of course these guys are going to be against them because it reduces the pool of lost people they can recruit from.

On one of the crappiest, craziest, most miserable days of my young adulthood, the Jehovah's Witnesses knocked on my door as if sent by God. Fortunately I'd been inoculated against them as a kid when they kicked my mom out of their religion.

I occasionally took some shelter in more mainstream left-leaning religions, and even lived for a short time in my car in the parking lot behind a church. If any "born again" evangelist or Christ cultist tried to convince me that the religion sheltering me but not trying to mess with my head was evil, then that was plenty enough reason to dismiss them. Go save yourself before you presume to save me!

The problem with a lot of born again evangelical religions is that they are saving souls, and they can be very manipulative and even deceptive in that process. The end justifies the means if they think they are saving a person from the eternal fires of hell.

I think for a gay person especially any relationship with such a religion cannot end well. My first intense relationship was with a woman from such a background, and she couldn't even admit to herself that she was gay. In a lot of ways she was using me to establish her own normalcy in the eyes of her family and her faith. When that all fell apart it was horrible for all of us.

Our family is Catholic, but the faith grates against our oldest kid's sensibilities. Nevertheless he grits his teeth and goes along with it. When he's on his own I figure he's going to enjoy not going to Mass on Sunday for quite some time.

My mom has a love/hate relationship with the Church, but she's probably also bipolar, so there may be no deeper meaning in that. If their was any advantage in that for me growing up, it's that I got to experience a variety of faiths as a kid, because my dad was content to follow where she went.

In our own Church I am open about my own dissent. People know I support gay marriage, sex education, and (gasp!) birth control, but those who are offended by me will at least get out of my way when I'm fired up. I don't know what I'd do in a more conservative part of the nation, because I'd certainly get myself into trouble with the Church.

It's a rotten thing for the Catholic Church that they do not support gay relationships. Maybe in a few hundred years they'll understand how much they have lost when gay kids flee the Church for such good reason.

One thing I never do is pretend I'll be accepting of any religion my kids come across in their explorations. If any kid I know is gay and thinking about joining a church that believes gay people can choose to be straight I'll tell them they are asking to be run over by the bus. Likewise I abhor the anti-science churches. Don't tell me evolution isn't fact without expecting me to tell you that you are ignorant.

I guess what it comes down to is that our kids know well where my wife and I stand on religion, and they have witnessed us being very critical of our own faith. Whatever faith they end up in, and especially if they remain Catholic, I hope they maintain those same critical skills they grew up with, and recognize when someone is trying to use them or sell them destructive and unloving nonsense and anti-intellectualism.

[mdmc]

7. I don't have (cant have) any thoughts on this matter

But I will add this -
I have an affiliation with a MH group home for schizophrenics. Every so often, on Sunday, some religious people come and try to convert people or spread the word. The clients are more then glad to sit down and talk with them.
An hour later these "save your soul" types are trying their hardest to get out the door and away. I remember one poor lady being asked over 20 times if she was a robot or if she was human.
There comes a time when these religious people realize that the clients cant 'benefit' their church, and they leave. These 'religious' types could always help the group home or do something for the clients (get them clothes, make them dinner and dessert), but they never do. Their goals are not to help, but rather to help their 'church'.

Sorry, this has nothing to do with your OP. Just wanted to add...

[EFerrari]

8. What about helping her practice a refusal (if that's what she wants to do).

It might be helpful for her to practice saying no to that supervisor in a civil way so should the situation arise, she will be a little ahead of the game.

The supervisor, imho, is abusing a position of power and that trips me alarms anyway. It's inappropriate for a boss to unload personal beliefs on her employees.

[elleng]

9. I agree,

sfexpat.

[EFerrari]

10. Can you imagine? You're a kid, in your first (very stressful) year at college

and on top of everything else, your boss is forcing their beliefs on you?

I myself would report that person to THEIR boss or to the HR department. Because what it amounts to is harrassment.

[elleng]

11. Right, sfexpat;

My 19 year old sophomore daughter has found a counselor/csw? she likes very much (state school), helping with long-standing emotional issues, and it would indeed be awful if counselor tried to recruit her into any such.

My daughter is strong and 'opinionated' enough, I believe, to immediately counter any such, but that's just my view!

[wellstone dem]

12. Well, the "friend" may just have deep sixed her chances of recruiting

my daughter. I'm a single person who adopted my daughter when she was 9 and had spent 5 years in foster care.

Apparently she told my daughter that she believes that single person adoptions are wrong. My daughter is so angry and just said, "I think maybe Christ is trying to tell me that June is wrong." ......ya think??

I'm on my way out there now to spend Easter with her and we are going to look together for some other options for a church for her.

She wants me to meet June, I suppose "Go to hell" would be the most appropriate but still wrong thing to say.

[wellstone dem]

13. I just wanted to update you on this

There has been some up and down on my daughters attraction to this woman. I kept having to deal with phone calls from my daughter in tears about what this woman said. She told my daughter that her depression and anxiety was the devil living in her and that accepting Christ would heal her.

I told daughter, "I thought you already accepted Christ." "June says not deep enough." "Has June shown you the permission slip God gave her to judge your acceptance of Christ."

Finally, she called me to tell me that she had found her "home" in this church. I replied, "I'm sorry to hear that, it is contrary to your lifelong values." "Why can't you ever be happy for me."
"I love you. But that doesn't mean I have to cheer you on when I disagree with what you are doing. HOwever, you are 20, I can't decide your religion. Just don't accept me to be happy about you setting aside the values you have held so strongly." At some point she hung up, apparently calling me a jerk. The next day she called me back and said, "I can't believe you thought I would lose my values. Did you hear me call you a jerk?" I told her that I embrace my jerkdom.

She has talked with the person at the Disability Services office at this college, who suggested to my daughter that she is seeing some of her birth mothers dysfunction in this woman.

And my daughter went to a training session at the local United Church of Christ on supporting gay and lesbian people. I sent her a sermon from the woman minister at the UCC talking about her own depression, and I will be taking my daughter to the UCC when I'm there in May, in case I can't talk her into going on her own before then. (FYI, I'm not a member of the UCC, but this is the church that is closest to my daughter's values, and probably to mine. But as I told my daughter, "It's a lot easier making suggestions about her life than fixing my own. :) )


So I think she is headed on a better track. Thanks to everyone here for your support.

[UndertheOcean]

14. Accept her unconditionally whatever path she choses

in life , This is the best thing you can do, and a sign of great and noble love.